Transcript

Lloyd (The Ref)

You didn't want to work anymore and you didn't want any help with the baby because you wanted to do it all by yourself. And you hated New York because we weren't as rich as your college friends were to enjoy it. We couldn't afford a bigger place, and.

Nic

You were miserable being around people who could. And we were up to our ears in debt.

Lloyd (The Ref)

But moving here was my decision. Right, and the loan was the same situation.

Mom (The Ref)

What difference does any of this make now? You're getting a divorce,

Lloyd (The Ref)

Mother.

Mom (The Ref)

What?

Lloyd (The Ref)

Is it possible for you to shut the fuck up for 10 seconds?

Mom (The Ref)

Lloyd, don't talk to me like that in my own house.

Lloyd (The Ref)

You know what, Mom? You know what I'm gonna get you next Christmas? A big wooden cross. So every time you feel unappreciated for all your sacrifices, you can climb on up and nail yourself to it.

Mom (The Ref)

Gary, get my bags. I'm leaving.

Connie (The Ref)

Oh, go get them yourself. He's not your errand boy.

Mom (The Ref)

Has everyone gone nuts? Who the hell do you think you are?

Connie (The Ref)

Slipper socks. Medium.

Steve

It's two Dads one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are continuing along the Dadvent calendar by popping open another window. And what is behind this one? Let's see. We open it and it's The Ref, the 1994 comedy starring Dennis Leary, Kevin Spacey and Judy Davis. I picked this one for us. And this is just one of those movies that I absolutely understand. I like better than. Than other people. Like just the general populace. I love the Ref. It's gonna be a lot of fun to talk about. This is just a movie I have a ton of nostalgia for. I first saw it in college. It's a movie my wife and I love. And it's just, you know, even with the. You know, I have to ignore the fact that Kevin Spacey's in it in order to enjoy it now. But that's okay. He's terrible. But the movie I think is good. And this is going to be a good conversation. So. Yeah, so that's sort of my background with it. Have you seen the Ref before?

Nic

No, so I never saw it. But it's funny you mentioned seeing it in college, because in college, like one of the things that my friends and I were the most into, that we would Listen to Over and over was the Dennis Leary album, no Cure for cancer.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

The one with like asshole and all that stuff on it.

Steve

Right.

Nic

So I'm amazed I didn't see this because this would have been right up my alley to get my extra Leary fixed. But I've never seen this before. I was unaware that it was a Christmas movie until you added it to the list. And I look and I'm like, holy shit. Okay, so yeah, I'm interested to talk about this because you know, me seeing, seeing it, you know, 20 plus years probably after you saw it and, and how we'd feel about it. But yeah, I was a leery head back then, so it would have been right up my alley. And you know Kevin Spacey, despite, you know, his alleged shortcomings.

Steve

Right.

Nic

He's great. Judy Davis, I don't.

Steve

So wonderful.

Nic

I don't know what else I know her from, but she's fantastic.

Steve

She's. She's just spectacular. She's been spectacular and like everything she's been in throughout her career. One of those consummate an actor's actor, Judy Davis. And honestly, is probably the rest of the cast as good as they are? There are a lot of great people in the cast. They are all swimming to keep their head above water to stay with Judy Davis. I mean, this really is like, this is kind of her show in a lot of ways. And so. But yeah, so that's fantastic. The reason I watched it in college was because of Dennis Leary. I too was a huge Dennis Leary standup fan at the time. Even though. Well, actually it was sometime in college when I discovered Bill Hicks and realized Dennis Leary maybe wasn't wholly original with everything that he did. But that's okay. I still enjoy Larry's standup. But yeah, so that was why I saw the Ref in the first place. And let's. Let's jump into the facts on the Ref. The Ref came out on March 9, 1994, a totally normal time to put out a Christmas movie.

Nic

Yeah, that's when I would do it.

Steve

So I think it's never start too early got buried by the studio. It seems like it has an R rating, well earned one 97 minutes running time. And it was directed by Ted Demi, who for part of this watch through, for some reason I thought was Jonathan Demi, the guy who did the Silence of the Lamps. Turns out as Nic. You told me he's. Ted is Jonathan's nephew.

Nic

Jonathan's nephew, that's right.

Steve

So not Jonathan Demme, the Oscar winning director written by Marie Weiss and Richard La Gravanese. I'm hopefully, hopefully saying that. Right again. Starring Dennis Leary, Kevin Spacey and Judy Davis. Scores Rotten Tomatoes 73%. Actually pretty respectable Rotten Tomatoes score. Fresh score there on IMDb. A 6.9, which I think feels about right. Slightly under sort of that good mark that we see a lot of times. And mixed review from Siskel and Ebert. Gene Siskel with the thumbs down. Roger Ebert with the thumbs up. Up on the ref. No awards or nominations to really speak of. And on a budget. They love this. On a budget of $11 million. The box office take for this movie, $11.4 million for 1.04x what it costs. This is by all measures a flop. If you can't make at least kind of double what your costs to make.

Nic

That is a. It is a capital 1 esque rate of return.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

One of those dog savings accounts they have out there. Sorry, they're a spons.

Steve

They wouldn't be even if they asked. I'd say no. Raise your rates maybe.

Nic

Oh, man. Yeah. Okay. One thing I noticed that I was surprised to see at the very beginning of this movie, the Producers, it was a Don Simpson, Jerry Bruckheimer film. This doesn't seem like it belongs in the Transformers universe.

Steve

Well, they were like Top Gun and they were like. And they. But they did like Point Break, I think might have been them. Like. Yeah, they were more action movies in. In the 90s 80s and 90s than anything else. But yeah, they had a few interesting departures. Diversions.

Nic

Yeah. And I'm not sure like how big their production, but I was just surprised because I normally would associate that with like a big budget, like blockbuster type.

Steve

Yeah, Top Gun's always the first thing I think when I think of Simpson, Bruckheimer, the first movie I always think of is Top Gun.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And this is not that. So. Yeah. So one thing. So I. We talked about last week when we watched Trading Places. We talked about the opening sequence and the music and how great it is and how well it fits. This is another one. Oh, so you don't like it? I love this opening music. This opening music is composed by the film's composer, David A. Stewart of the Arrhythmics. And it is a take on like we're listening to the Vienna Boys Choir sing something like Carol of the Bells. And then it's like this sort of Euro techno sort of beat behind it. I love it. I think it is fun. I think it is very 90s. I think it was almost avant garde for the time and it sits with me well. But I'm getting from the literal thumbs down you just showed me across the desk that maybe you are not as into this thing.

Nic

It's funny that you point that out because I think this is very much like of the time, you know, and seeing it now for the first time, I'm just like, oh God, here we go. And I wrote down moody Christmas trip hop. Like to me this, it almost seems like, oh, the. The touring bassist from Portishead decided to get a job scoring Hallmark Christmas movies. And this is what he. What he pooped out.

Steve

Not that far off because rhythmic Portis head. Not that far.

Nic

Not too far off. But I, you know, this scene, I always enjoy a scene where it's a Christmas themed music and we're just getting different views of the city, of the town and it's decorated and everything looks.

Steve

Nice and it's a super cute town. This is old Baybrook, Connecticut, which is a fictional town. But it's this like very wealthy enclave village within Connecticut. Really cute downtown, a bookstore and a little hardware store and you know, guys doing the Salvation army bell ringing and kids running around and looking at stuff in the toy store window. It's really just cute. And at the end of the sequence we see that they get the bookstore and stuff. And then we sort of pan up from the Village Bookst sign in the window that says Dr. Wong, marriage counselor. Yeah, we cut into that office and Dr. Wong is played by BD Wong, who's a fantastic actor. Love him.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

He is wearing the most comfortable looking sweater I've ever seen in my life. It is gorgeous, it is warm and I want it as good as his sweater is. This man is the worst possible therapist to ever exist. He's a terrible, terrible marriage counselor.

Nic

He's not de escalating.

Steve

We are introduced to his patients, our main stars. Judy Davis playing Caroline Chaucer and Kevin Spacey playing Lloyd Chasseur. It's 18th century French Huguenot. They tell us a few times in the movie. And they are having a marriage counseling session, which, you know, that's always fraught with sort of aggressive dynamic, you know, generally speaking. And Dr. Wong starts him up by saying, we're going to try an exercise where somebody just listens. One of you is going to talk and the other one is just going to listen. And it's clear that these two are constantly arguing, talking over each other. And so Caroline wants to talk about her dream and Lloyd makes a snide remark about like, we shouldn't talk about the dreams. But she describes the dream to Dr. Wong as being at a restaurant, a very fancy restaurant, and a dish is brought to her by the waiter. And it's Lloyd's head on a plate of lettuce with his penis sticking out of his ear. And the waiter said. I said, I didn't order this. And the waiter says, well, you must try it. It's a delicacy. But don't eat the penis. It's just garnish. And it's like, is that the most.

Nic

Cold blooded small dick thing you can ever say? Dude, dog, your dick is garnish. But I will say that's good.

Steve

It's good. And it is. And it is our first glitter glimpse into Judy Davis as an actress in this movie. Because the way she delivers that story is so cold and so, like. Precision. There's just such precision with her, with her biting. It's just so crazy. But yeah, there's a great line here too, where Lloyd is, you know, they're basically arguing and the doctor's like, oh, you know, I think the communication's healthy. And he goes, healthy? You think her telling our friends, I've been castrated Florentine is healthy? Yeah, Great little lines throughout the thing.

Nic

But yeah, yeah. And it comes out during this conversation that Caroline had had an affair in the past. And we don't really get details on it.

Steve

Just she kind of blames Lloyd a little bit. Says, like, oh, you know, I was bored. She describes her sex life as, like, nothing noteworthy, which is another very cold way to describe your sex life with your partner. But then she says something about before we cut away from this scene, she says something about the affair didn't even mean. It didn't matter to me. It didn't mean anything. It shouldn't even be counted as an affair. And Lloyd turns to Dr. Wong, goes, I think we need a ruling on this. Oh, man. So, yeah, we do mercifully run away from them now. Like, they're a lot. They are a lot to take when they're together. So it's good. We do get them mostly in chunks, right. Rather than, like, all at once.

Nic

So, yeah, yeah. So now we're going over to our next character, who I think is wearing a full ski mask. We don't see a face.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And a great safe cracking scene. I love a safe crack. I love, you know, using the stethoscope and figuring out when the pins are moving and stuff. That always gets me. And it's the Dennis Leary character, and he's basically, you know, stealing Stuff from this fancy house. At one point, something from the safe triggers and sprays in his face.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And he takes it off and he starts smelling it. And it's, like, obvious it smells bad, but he's taking these, like, Tony Montana strength whiffs of this shit. Like, I don't know if you've been around cat piss before, but cat piss is pretty identifiable from far away.

Steve

Yes. And he's almost, like, licking his lips. It's really. Jesus. Cat pits.

Nic

We have. We have an aged cat at home now, so. So this is something I frequently am randomly discovering in the house. And let me tell you, I don't have to roll around in it to tell you what it is.

Steve

Yeah, we don't have an aged cat. We just have a real asshole of a cat. And she decides to pay us back for our. For our transgressions with peeing where she shouldn't often. So, yeah, it happens. Do I do a lot of laundry with enzymes in the cleaners? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So basically, this is. This character is Gus. We. Very briefly. Oh, he's going in and he's. And he's. He's robbing this. This. This safe, and he gets sprayed with cat piss. But then I think we cut back to the doctor. Dr. Wong's office pretty quickly. And because there's a. There's a line where Dr. Wong asks Lloyd, what do you want from the marriage now? And Lloyd's like, well, I'm actually very content. I don't need anything. I'm happy. And, you know, Caroline's like, no, you're not. Everything is heavy. If. If you are content, how could we both be in the marriage and you're content and I'm not? And he just turns her and goes, luck also. And Wong is constantly telling them, I'm not here to judge or take sides. And they're both just like, well, what good are you? And finally he says it again, and the two of them together in unison turn and go, fuck you. They are just not happy with their marriage counselor.

Nic

Yeah. And, yeah, he's talking about. He doesn't like that Caroline doesn't have a career. That's indecisive. And this is kind of like the trope in a lot of these things. If you've seen the great movie Wanderlust with Paul Rudd and Jennifer Aniston, where it's like, oh, you're just experimenting with all this stuff, and I'm bringing home the big. I think we find out later that Lloyd is a little aided by some Family money. So he's not really like the breadwinner in the way that he presents himself.

Steve

No, for sure.

Nic

But yeah, good scene of them kind of just crashing out at the. I just learned this phrase. Last crashing out.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah.

Nic

Because my. My daughter has said it 5,000 times over the last week.

Steve

Perfect. Yeah, we have. We have Gen Z kids, both you and I. Yeah. That's what happens. Or Gen Alpha, I guess they are. Isn't that they're even younger.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Anyway, so, yeah, so we cut back to Gus, the Dennis Leary's cat burglar character. And he's emptying the safe. He's, you know, he's putting stuff in his little fanny pack, whatever. Jewels, necklaces, bracelets, whatever. And he sees this massive diamond ring in the back. It's in. It's just in a little, like, ring box, but it looks like it's got to be 6, 7 carats. It's a huge, huge stone. So he's like, yes. You know, and he goes to grab it, but what he doesn't see is that behind it, it's, like, attached to a little, like, wire.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So as he goes to take it, it's clearly meant as a decoy. This crazy Looney Tunes alarm comes on. It's like, burglary. Burglary. And all the lights turn on and sirens. And a trap door underneath him opens and he falls.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Down a trapdoor into the basement of the house onto, like, a pool table, it looks like, which that's not a soft surface to hit. Yeah. And we've talked before about the Doberman pinscher being the guard dog of the 80s. The guard dog of the 90s, though.

Nic

Guard dog, the 90s. The Rottweiler.

Steve

The Rottweilers down there waiting for him. He tries to, like, distract me in my notes. Baby. He. He goes, like, throw a pool ball. Like, hey, go fetch. But the dog's not that dumb. He stays and he's looking, but he goes. He gets a better idea. He grabs a little piece. Actually, no. He throws the cue ball at the dog, and the dog catches it in his mouth and chews it up, crushes it, which is amazing. But he gets, like, a little, you know, one of the pieces of jewelry he's stolen, and it's like, oh, I bet you you've been trained on these doggy. Like, here you go. And he tosses. I'm sure if the dog goes after it. So he's able to jump off the pool table, grab his gun off the floor and try to get out the Window. But we see as he jumps out the window, he's clearly been bit in the ass. Yeah. By the dog. And so, yeah, you know, like they.

Nic

Say, and sometimes you don't have a choice. Never turn your back on the sea. That's a. That's a good.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

If there's any way to not turn your back on a dog that's chasing you as you're trying to shimmy up a fence, like, you got to figure out how to be facing sideways or something.

Steve

Something especially.

Nic

They're going right for the buns.

Steve

Right. A Rottweiler, a Pitbull, Doberman, Any of that sort of classification of any of.

Nic

The shepherd attack, German shepherd, 70s, do 80s. We. We'll do our dog bracket at some point.

Steve

Pitbull. Love the 2000s probably too.

Nic

It works. And it's. It's a robot dog with a machine on it now. So isn't the world better? So. So in this argument that they're having now, I think Lloyd and Caroline are kind of back at their house.

Steve

No, they're in the car. They're in the car. They've gone to, like, the store to pick up some things. We don't even really understand why it's. But yeah, they're arguing again just about like all the shit they argue about in the affair and everything.

Nic

And she wants a divorce. And he's like, no, no, I'm not doing it.

Steve

Yeah, he doesn't want to get. I'm not really sure why, but he doesn't want to get a divorce. He's not going to get a divorce. That's what he says. And then she goes, well, are you coming into the store with me? And he says, no, I want to listen to the news. There's a world going on outside our problems. I want to listen to the news. And so she's like, you know, well, we're not done talking about this divorce. She says, you know, just because you've put your foot down about this divorce doesn't mean I'm giving up on it. And he says to her, caroline, the day you give any. The day you see anything through to the end, I'll stick my own dick in my ear. I love that one. But, yeah. So she goes in and there's this, like, people arguing with the way the person at the counter. It's like. It's like a store. It's got like video rentals and magazines and groceries. It's that kind of general store. And there's a woman at the counter and these people are arguing with her about how they don't they need eggnog, and say, can't you go make eggnog? Whatever. It's just a funny little, like, exchange that doesn't mean anything. Caroline is holding one paper towel roll, some instant coffee, and she's looking at olives. I don't know what the fuck she's there for. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense why.

Nic

She'S in the olive section when she gets approached, right?

Steve

And so, yeah, Gus walks up and puts a gun in her back and says, there's a gun in your back. Don't scream, don't yell. Don't say anything. Come on out. You know, take me to your car. Basically, yeah. Of course, when he gets into the car, he realizes this is. This is a couple. And, you know, he's like, drive, you know, whatever. Get going. And they. I think this is where she says, like, would you have taken a couple, like, Lloyd, if you'd come in with me, this wouldn't have happened. He's like, that's not true. It's true, though. Wouldn't. You wouldn't have taken a couple. And he's like, all right. No, I wouldn't have. I was. I wouldn't have done that. You know? At which point they continue arguing. He goes, I hijacked my fucking parents. Yeah. It's like he does not know how deep into these with these two he is, but it's not good.

Nic

Yeah. And they. They're like, he's so secondary to everything. Like, they're just still.

Steve

The man with the gun. Yeah, the man with the gun in the car.

Nic

So now, I think we're shown their son Jesse, who's at school. He's, like, away at this, like, military boarding school. Just shows him briefly, I think.

Steve

Yeah, we're not quite there because we go to Lt. Huff's office in the. In the. Okay, in. So this is the police chief, basically. But old Baybrook apparently only has volunteer police officers. It's not, like, a professional. Whatever. So there's this, like, old, stuffy white people talking to Lieutenant Huff. And it's like, you know, why weren't our, you know, people in the streets? And he says, well, because they're not trained, because that. You guys don't call us when something serious happens. You only call us when your dogs are humping each other or, like, you know, some kid TPS your house. But, like, real police work, you call your judge friends, your district attorney friends, and your attorney general friends. So, you know, go ahead and call them. And I love it, because the kind of head rich dude standing goes like, I'm going to call an emergency meeting of the old Baybrook Emergency Community Committee. And there's just something funny about that. But you know, but yeah, but he basically tells him to get the fuck out of his office.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And then very briefly, because it comes back later, we cut back to the car where Gus and Caroline and Lloyd are. And Caroline and Lloyd are arguing and there's a stop sign coming. And even, even Gus is saying, hey, stop sign, stop sign, stop sign. Lloyd blows to the stop sign and you know, avoids a crash, but whatever. And he doesn't admit that there was one. He maintains there was no stop sign.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And they continue to argue about it.

Nic

So now are we at the school?

Steve

No, I think, I think, I think now we go back to the Willard house. This is the house Gus robbed. And the cops, the volunteer cops are there because one has found the mask that Gus left behind. And he comes out to Lt. Huff and is like, you know, so these guys, Stephen, Phil, they're these two bumbling cop characters. And one of them, Steve, comes out and gives. It gives this bag of. We found a mask. It smells, it's got a funny smell. And Huff smells and goes, it smells like urine. And Steve goes, oh, thank God Phil thought it might be semen. And Lieutenant Huff goes, phil needs to talk to a therapist, which is great. And then we cut to Jesse at the military school.

Nic

Okay. Okay. Yeah, those smells, not all that similar.

Steve

Very, very. No.

Nic

Yeah, maybe get yourself tested for a stroke if you're confusing the two. Similar source though. Okay, so now we're at this military academy where Caroline and Lloyd's son Jesse is. And it kind of shows Jesse in his room and he's like developing photos.

Steve

He's got like a black room in his closet or something in that dark room.

Nic

And it looks like he has certain incriminating photos. I mean, these are not like I'm taking a picture of a trash can for my school project kind of photos. And the guy who's in charge of that is named Cisco actually. Right. And he's played by J.K. simmons. I will say, great actor, like incredible resume. And in this movie, especially J.K. simmons in a non swearing role. Oh yeah, he's not playing the J.K. simmons guy where he's like, listen here, I'm going to shove your dick through your eye hole. Like that's every character that he does. So. So in this one he's just playing straight up. Yeah, so he's like the, the Guy.

Steve

In charge of whatever, the headmaster or whatever of the military school that Jesse goes to. They call him Lieutenant Siskel, Right. And so he. He has come to the door, Jesse's dorm room, and you know, is basically like, you know, chasser. And this is one time we hear like, It's Chasseur. It's 18th century French Huguenot. Yeah. Again, we hear a bunch, but basically it's like, you know, can I come in? And Jesse's like, no. He's like, I can't give it to you in the hall. And sure enough, he hands him, like, an envelope full of cash. It's like a few hundred dollars or something like that because Jesse's blackmailing him. The pictures were him and two topless, you know, probably hookers or strippers or something, whatever. Not his wife, basically. And J.K. simmons does call him demon seed and kind of like spits the words out, which is good. But. Yeah.

Nic

So.

Steve

So that's. So now that's. We've seen Jesse. That's the. That's the kid of Lloyd and Caroline. The next thing we see is Gus and Lloyd and Caroline arriving at the Chasseur house. So Caroline and Lloyd's place was huge, right? It's this enormous house. It looks kind of like the home alone house or like the. The father of the bride Steve Martin house, you know, I mean, it's one of these huge, huge suburban house. Very nice, gorgeous. And so they go inside, and as they go inside, Jesse's leaving a message on the answering machine saying, don't worry about picking me up at the train station. I'm getting a ride with a friend. Like, I'll be. Be. I'll be back soon or whatever, right? And this is when. Now Gus has to try to figure out, like, what. What am I going to do with these people? There's a lot of funny little things. Basically, Lloyd and Caroline never stop jabbing at each other. Caroline mentions that, like, Lloyd works at his mother's store. And it's like, you know, they go back and forth about that and. And then, yeah, they basically. They end with Gus asking Lloyd, you got any rope, Lloyd? And Lloyd's like, you know, what for? It's like, what, am I having a interview? Stop asking me questions. Got any rope, Lloyd?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And Caroline's. He's like, no, we don't have any rope. And Caroline's like, well, we have bungee cords. It's like, God damn it.

Nic

Suggesting. That was wild. Yeah.

Steve

Oh, man.

Nic

Yeah. And I think they say, like, what are you doing? And he's like, well, people with guns do whatever they want, right?

Steve

Yeah. Basically, like, I get to yell. You don't get to yell. I have a gun. You know, people without guns, no yelling, whatever. And there's. And there's a very funny moment where the two of them kind of jump because they're surprised by what he's saying. It's very. Kind of, like, cartoonish, but kind of funny kind of thing.

Nic

This is kind of a funny part of the movie here. So the. The rest of the family, which is Lloyd's brother and his family.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Wife and three kids.

Steve

It's two kids. So it's the two kids, Mary and John. And then Gary is Lloyd's brother and his wife Connie, I think, played by Christine Baranski, and then the mother. So Lloyd and Gary's mom is, with the five of them coming, like, owns the house, owns the store, has loaned money to Lloyd and Caroline. Like, we get all this. There's. That's the mom. She actually was in Mary Poppins. She plays the kid's mom in Mary Poppins who's like, does the suffragette stuff and whatever. It's the same actress.

Nic

Nice.

Steve

Many years later.

Nic

Very classic voice.

Steve

That woman.

Nic

That actress is good. So I like the. The family stopping for dinner.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

On the way to a family dinner. Because they know it's going to be fucking weird.

Steve

Right?

Nic

And I think we've all experienced that sometimes where it's like, all right, I'm going to my aunt's house on Christmas morning. She only ever makes a weird thing for, like, four people, and there's 25 people there. So, yeah, I'm having a Croissan' Wich in the driveway before I go inside.

Steve

Even smaller. But, like, all the same thing, there have been times in the past where, like, you know, I'm not gonna get into too much detail, but people we've had to see on holidays, like, only have weirdly flavored creamers for coffee, not just, like, regular. And so, like, I've, like, stop at Starbucks just to get myself, like, a normal coffee or whatever. You know what I mean?

Nic

Totally in it.

Steve

Like, I don't want hazelnut peppermint surprise. I just want, like, coffee. Like, yeah.

Nic

The one person's house who only uses taster's ch.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Just like, look, I love you, but I. That doesn't do it for me. So shout out to making accommodations for, like, your own food. And you know what? People should do that if you have concerns. Definitely. Take care.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. So they're like, at Like a Denny's sort of looking place. Waffle House, like that kind of thing. And yes, the five of them sit around eating. And, you know, Gary's trying to be nice, but he's like, oh, you know, she goes to a lot of work Caroline does for make the food. And Connie turns and goes, gary, the last time you had her cooking, you had diarrhea for a week. And their son John, who looks like he's maybe like 13 or 14. Yeah. Very loudly in the restaurant. You had diarrhea for a week, dad. And it's like. And that's when her. His mom hits her. Go, don't make me crazy today. It's Christmas. And Christine Baranski hits this kid, like, five times in this movie. She's, like, routinely slapping his arm or his head over and over again.

Nic

Oh, she's in. She's in one of the Grinches as well. So she's in a couple of.

Steve

That's right. She's one of the Whoville who's.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, she's kind of built for that role.

Steve

She's looking.

Nic

Who ish. I think she's. Yeah, she's great. Now Dennis Leary. Gus is trying to find, like, all right, my accomplice is somewhere. The guy. Because when he. When he robbed this place at the beginning, the dude in the getaway car just.

Steve

Yeah. Like, the alarm all went off and.

Nic

Stuff literally was, of course, like, what are you gonna do?

Steve

Murray is his name. Yeah.

Nic

So then he asks Caroline and Lloyd. He's like, what's the worst dive bar in town? And they.

Steve

And they have to argue about it. Right?

Nic

Yeah. Really good. I love being the status of. You can contact me by calling the bar that I'm always at. I really. I really enjoy that.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

My wife had a. Had an uncle like that, like, for years, where it was like, well, if you ever need to find out where Pete is, you call this bar. And they will find him within 24 hours. So it's gone. But I. Wonderful part of our history. Yeah. And so at this point. So Gus is trying to get information from Lloyd and Caroline and their address. They're arguing. He's like, spraying him with the hose from the sink and everything.

Steve

Yeah. He calls up one of the dive bars they recommend, and basically we see. We cut to that bar. We see Murray's there, but the bartender answers the phone, you know, Mackerel Lounge or whatever it is. He goes, yeah, I'm looking for a guy named Murray. He's like, a waste of light, you know? He's. Or he's a. He's a loser, whatever. And he goes, you're describing everybody in the place. But call out for a Murray. He's a Murray. And he goes, anybody here named Murray? And Murray doesn't respond, but he kind of notices, you know? And then, sorry, pal, he's not here. And so guest goes, how about you ask for a fucking waste of life named Murray? He goes, is there a fucking waste of life named Murray here? And Murray goes, gus? And he's like, yeah, I'll take the phone. That's how. That's the relationship they have. Gus and Murray is, you know, so they chat for a little bit. And Murray's like, you know, I had to get away, like, whatever. And he's like, I told you to act like an idiot. Drunk, vagrant. Is that such a stretch? Like, why couldn't you just do that? So what they decide is they need to get to a place called Winslow Harbors, which is like a. Like a boat dock nearby. And he's like, I need you to go there and steal a boat. Because they find out there's gonna be roadblocks and like checkpoints. They're gonna do house to house searches. Like, they're really. It's a manhunt. And so they need to get out of here, but they can't just drive away, right? And the place is. It's December in Connecticut. The place is surrounded by snowy woods. Like, it's not like you could just walk to the next town or whatever. You'd be screwed. So go to Winslow Harbors, Steal us a boat. That's what he said. And Murray at first is like, probably. He's like. And then. And then he gives him the number at the Chasseur house to be like, when you've found a boat, you got it, everything. Just call me here. Yeah. Murray asks him, you should tell me where you put the swag in case I got a bribe. No, Murray, no. I love that. Because he knows he can't trust him.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

And of course he goes, you've been drinking. And Murray, you know, literally sitting in a bar, pushes his drink, which he'd been drinking in the car. He had like a bottle of whiskey or whatever. No. What are you crazy?

Nic

No, I haven't been drinking.

Steve

Oh, my God. So funny.

Nic

I think at this point, Gus is. It comes up between Lloyd and Caroline that Caroline said she quit smoking or lied about quitting smoking or whatever.

Steve

Gus asks for a cigarette, right? And Lloyd very kind of smugly goes, well, I don't smoke. And Caroline just quit. And so Gus smirks and goes, he just quit, huh? Caroline?

Nic

Where are they?

Steve

Where are they? Yeah, where are they, Caroline?

Nic

And then he gets his cigarette and he's lusting over it like a cartoon wolf. Like, I don't understand his reaction to it. He's doing like the. Oh, but it's like, you haven't been in jail.

Steve

No, but you know the lore. You know the lore of Dennis Leary and his cigarettes, right? The filters where they put the heroin on us. Real good smokers know that secret. That's part of his stand up. So the dude's always had a love. Love relationship with a cigarette. Yeah. And this is just sort of part of that, I think. But yeah. So there's arguing.

Nic

20 minute scene of him doing a cigarette bit there that they had to cut out.

Steve

Exactly. Right. But that's. So then Lloyd and Caroline are arguing. Lloyd keeps calling her a liar. You lied about. You lied about. I didn't say I quit. I said I haven't finished a cigarette in two months. Like, what? All this stuff. And. And you know, Gus is fucking done with these. She pushes them over, which looks like it hurts like hell. They're bungee corded to a couple of, like, wooden chairs, like. Like dining room chairs or something. And he pushes them down and they land on their backs, which that would hurt like a bastard.

Nic

Oh, yeah.

Steve

But he says. And he looks at Caroline, he goes, caroline, did you say you quit? Did you say you quit? He's like, yes. She nods, so you were a liar. And then Lloyd, like, smirks and go. And smug. Smugly goes, yeah. And so Gus pulls the gun out, points at him and goes, do you see? You saw the stop sign, didn't you, Lloyd? You saw the stop sign, didn't you, Lloyd? And he nods, yes, I did. Then you were also a liar. And this is part. This is one of the things kind of borrowed from Leary's Stand up. Capital L, small I, small A, small R, period.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Now shut the fuck up. It's just like this spelling out with the capital L, you know, big N, you know, capital N, small Y, big fucking Q. Right? Like.

Nic

But yeah, yeah, let's see. Oh, so the doorbell's ringing, right?

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

Neighbor who's dressed up like Santa. Is that the door? Ringing the bell way too many times.

Steve

Not enough time. Not enough time between. Yeah, you have to allow five seconds or something between doorbell rings.

Nic

You have to be able to estimate how long it would take and also respect if nobody answers it, even if you know they're inside, they don't have to answer.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And then this is a very trope. Ish thing, 80s 90s is he's delivering homemade fruitcake.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And fruitcake I like. It was never a part of my life either.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

But as a kid, I do remember the jokes about fruitcake being bad.

Steve

Being like dense and like tasting bad. Yeah, yeah.

Nic

And I had this pin, like my uncle or whatever handed out these pins one year and it said fruitcake and had like a circle and a lion's throat. And thinking back about his politics, I really hope. Oh boy, I hope it was Christmas. Fruitcake. No, but like, I remember it being such a thing that you would joke about it, you know, And I was like, I never had it. So. Yeah, of course in this movie, oh, here's your fruitcake. And it's always like a brick and tastes bad. And so Dennis Leary takes a couple bites of it and immediately like, he.

Steve

Goes like, what's in this? And she goes, I don't know, alum. But that's when they find out. George, the Santa, the neighbor dress up like Santa, tells them that Willard, the old man who was robbed, that Gus robbed, called the radio station in town from bimin, he's down the. In the Caribbean and said there's a $100,000 reward for anybody who'll catch the burglar. Which obviously pisses Gus off because it make it that much harder for him to get. Get away. Right. And so. And also their little, little aside. George basically blames Jesse, their son Carolina, Lloyd's son, of stealing the nativity scene, Baby Jesus, the town's nativity scene.

Nic

Right.

Steve

He says, oh, if he knows where that is, you know, like, let me know or whatever. And. And she, you know, she's not happy about that. They're gonna head upstairs because Lloyd and, excuse me, Caroline and Gus are. Because Gus needs a band aid because the. She noticed.

Nic

Hey, you.

Steve

You. You're bleeding. Did you know you're bleeding? Goes, oh yeah, Willard's dog bit me. Cannibal bitch, you. And he's like, his name is cannibal. But so they're going upstairs and they pass by. So they've got one of those like stairwells where it's just like a lot of pictures hanging on the wall, like heading up the stairs. It's very classic. I don't think I've ever lived in a house with that. Well, actually we've kind of got that at my house now. Nevermind. It's a little different, but it's Kind of the same idea. We kind of do have that at our house. But anyway, it's all this stuff. And there's a Chagall. There's like a legit, original Chagall, like, sitting Steven Chagall.

Nic

I can't believe that he was mentioned in this movie.

Steve

And Gus recognizes it. And it's kind of like. And there's this whole, like, scene where it's like he's basically saying, you rich assholes don't even know what you have on the wall. And she's trying to play like, well, no, no, no. Like, we. We've worked before. Like, we had a restaurant or whatever. And I love. He goes, what are we, girlfriends? Do I give a. About this? Like, go upstairs. Like, what is this? Like, you know, he doesn't even want to hear it. But.

Nic

So he has them tied. And. And I think we find out at this point that Jesse is saying he doesn't want to come home.

Steve

Are they talking? No. When George leaves, we see that Jesse is out in a car. Like, he's taking a limo.

Nic

He doesn't want to go inside.

Steve

And he convinces the driver to, like, keep driving around the block a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

Nic

So they're tied down, like, facing each other. On. Are they on the ground?

Steve

They're on the bed. They're on the bed.

Nic

And of course, there's the scene where, okay, they're struggling. Come on, let's get untied. And then immediately she's like, oh, what's that? He's like, oh, I'm sorry. So he got a boner from the friction there. But then she's into him immediately, and I feel like that kind of sends the wrong message.

Steve

Well, she even says something like, know, what if he comes in? They're trying to undo the things. What if he comes. Oh, well, we'll just tell him we're being intimate. And he goes with an. Tied up with an armed man in the house. And she goes. Looks at me, goes, works for me. Like, she's got issues, let's put it that way. But yeah. So they. They are found by Gus. All, you know, go, Lloyd, you animal. You know, whatever. And they were like, kind of. He's like, preparing. So your son's coming home. Looks like there's going to be room for one more. Do you got any more bungee cords? No, we don't have any more. All right. So he like, kind of of tells him, we need to economize. I'm going to reset you, you know, set you up. At which point we Cut into the car where Gary. So Lloyd's brother and the family, the grandma and the kids, they're all there at a checkpoint and they're checking IDs and doing whatever. And there's this weird exchange between the mom and the daughter that I've never fully understood, I'll be honest. They say like, you know, like the grandma's like, how can they do this on Christmas Eve? It's like, oh, there's a man out. They burglar, they're trying to catch. They're trying to like find a criminal, you know. And the daughter Mary goes, well, maybe in the spirit of Christmas, they'll just let him go. And then Connie's like, the spirit of Christmas is either you're good or punished and you burn in hell. And. And then she says, who would release criminals after catching them? And the girl go. The daughter goes, republicans. And I'm like, wouldn't the joke at the time have been that Democrats?

Nic

Yeah, I don't know. I. I did notice that joke too. And I wonder. It was just kind of like, I.

Steve

Can'T tell you a joke about the daughter not understanding politics or what the joke is, but I don't fully get that one. Yeah.

Nic

Or I mean, I guess depending on how you define a criminal, it's probably very true.

Steve

Right, that's fair.

Nic

So. But yeah, I thought that line was a little odd too.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And there. So the cops are like swarming all over the place, right? So the son, so Jesse, now he comes home.

Steve

He comes home, he kind of listens at the door of his parents room, doesn't hear anything, heads into his room where he's now removed a floorboard, you know, from the floor or whatever, and is putting cash under the floorboard. The cash he got from Siskel, should mention. Just a little bit earlier, Gus was looking around the house and found a chest in Jesse's room. He opened up and sure enough, the infant, the baby Jesus from the nativity scene is in there. So he did take it, which is kind of fun. But yeah, Jesse does that. And then finally, you know, he's gonna go in and be like, hey, you guys decent? I'm gonna come in. And he walks in and basically Gus sort of like catches him, captures him and starts tying him up. Yeah. At this point, we cut back to the police station and this is a fantastic scene. So they have a videotape. Well, first of all, before the videotape, you. Even the guys at the police station, all these volunteer cops are sitting on these bumbling idiots are Sitting around watching.

Nic

It's a Wonderful Life, which proves this is a Christmas. I mean, if it's another Hammer Home, something being a Christmas movie, right? It's a Wonderful Life is involved in many, which is, like, contemporary ones.

Steve

That. And What Miracle and 34th street, like, those are, like, the ultimate Christmas movies, right? So. So they're watching It's Wonderful Life, commenting on how I don't think I've ever seen it all the way through, you know, and it's like, yeah, it's on during the holiday, you know, back when not everything was on demand every moment, right? It's like, oh, it's on during the holidays with the family, with the kids or whatever. I don't see it all. So they're watching it, enjoying it. Lieutenant Huff, who seems to be like, the one actual professional law enforcement officer in the town, comes in with a videotape that came from the Willard security system. He says, we're going to look at this tape. I want you to, you know, pay attention to details. This is a tape from the burglary, right? So he puts it in, and they start and they watch it through once. It's super short. It's just the scene of. From when Gus was robbing the. So first of all, he's taken the mask off. That's what the cat piss is for, right? It's to, like, make you want to take your mask off.

Nic

Off.

Steve

So he's not wearing a mask, and he's pulled the little, like, diamond ring that triggered everything. But before he. Before the. The trap door goes, I think is what it was. It's like it's him on camera. And then he falls through the trap door, right? But they got a real good look at his face. Absolutely. And so they're like, okay, whatever. And then there's a phone call. And I love. The officer that answered the phone is like, Lieutenant Hoff. It's some county prosecutor guy. Like, it's just the dumbest way to say anything. So then he goes on the talk and he says, like, I'll be right back. Just, just, Just, you know, sit here and wait for me. And they're like, well, you know, while. While we're waiting, let's maybe watch more of the movie. And they go. And they can't figure the remote out. So one of them hits record and then changes the channel or whatever over to, like, the actual broadcast TV back to the movie. And it's the whole, I don't want any plastics. I don't want any ground floors. You know, that whole Scene.

Nic

And they're recording Jimmy. Yeah, that's a good one.

Steve

Stuart is one of the ones I do. It's true. I do a decent James. Jimmy when he was younger, it was James as he got older. Anyway, so he. You know, they recording over this, like, Gus stealing stuff, video. The only evidence that there is. And it's just the funniest thing in the world because then it's like they come out, you know, the Huff comes back and goes, okay, they're gonna watch this a few more times. And, you know, he realizes what they've done, and they're all, like, looking sheepish. At which point, like, a state trooper comes and goes, lieutenant Huff, I believe you have some evidence that belongs to the county prosecutor's office. And it's like, they're are like, how do they. Yeah, what do you even do about that?

Nic

Oh, my God.

Steve

I don't even think we see those cops again through the whole movie. I think the next time we see cops, state troopers, they've all been dating, it's like, no, no, you're done. Like, oh, no. There is one more good scene with Huff later. But.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, and good escalation of the. Of the kind of 80s sitcom trope of like, oh, you recorded the super bowl over our wedding video, so not even 80s.

Steve

That was a joke in Modern Family in, like, 2005.

Nic

So that's like, not even TiVo my. Yeah, yeah, no, that's a. That's been everywhere. That's like the Everybody Loves Raymond, you know, type thing.

Steve

And the whole trope of not understanding the remote and not understand how to use the VCR and stuff, I can't.

Nic

Be too hard on that because I'm becoming a. I don't understand the remote guy. So. So Murray, now, he's. He's trying to go steal a boat.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And he basically. It. Cool scene. I do like the way that this little dock looks where it. It's, you know, really, like, kind of meager, like, quaint boat dog. But then there's these nice, colorful Christmas lights over the shack. And then a couple of the boats have lights on them, but they do.

Steve

Look like they're not. This isn't like a yacht marina. These are, like, working, fishing, like. Yeah, yeah. It's very, very cool aesthetic. It's sort of like, you know, this town is so wealthy, but it's like, somebody's got to work at the hardware store. Somebody's got to work at the bookstore. And if not high school kids, then it's these people, you know, people who just live around the town in the more poor sort of areas, maybe, that kind of thing. But yeah. So Murray is there and tries to get on a boat, and the woman, you know, hey. You know, and he just introduces himself, but we see that he's now met a woman who has a boat. Yeah. And that's sort of the important part of that. We cut back to the Chasseur house, and Jesse is wiggling his way out of the. The very shoddy job that Gus has done tying him up. He's just got his hands behind his back, like, around the foot of the bed, I think, and just one bungee cord wrapped a few times so he's able to wiggle his way out. Gus lights a cigarette and starts puffing on it real, real heavy, which sets off the fire, the smoke alarm in the room, and he freaks out. He goes to try to knock it and ends up, like, stepping through, like, the. The wicker seat of a. Of an antique chair and falling over, dropping his gun. Yeah. Jesse gets the gun and has pointed it at. At Gus. And I'm thinking to myself, like, why wouldn't you shoot? Like, this guy's threatening your whole family. No, he's robbed somebody. It's like, just shoot him. I don't care if you kill him or not. Just like you. No jury's gonna prosecute. Clear defense. You're in your own home for sure.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

The end result is Jesse does not actually shoot Gus. Gus is able to get the gun back and answer the phone. And it's Murray on the phone and telling him. Or no. Is it.

Nic

Is that he uses the gun to shoot the fire smoke alarm, which is really good.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Oh, no. And it's. It's. That's right. The phone. The phone. It's Connie. Connie's calling from the pay phone. So Gus doesn't answer it. He hands it to Caroline to answer it, and Connie's like, you know, like, oh, we're almost there. You know, like, we'll be. I'm sorry we're late. We got held up. We'll be there in, like, 20 minutes. And that's when Gus says, looks like there's one more for dinner. And then we kind of. The plan is hatched. Right. For like, the rest of the evening.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Which basically boils down to they're gonna. They're gonna gag Jesse and put him in a closet upstairs so he can't this up. Which is also then Gus can then threaten Caroline and Lloyd with, like, you need to do what I Say, I've got your son. I'll take him with me. Right. If you don't do what I say. And he's going to pretend to be Dr. Wong.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And he's gonna pretend to be their marriage counselor. And there's. And there's that.

Nic

So as a marriage counselor, dude, you need to have your own life. Like don't work so hard as you're spending Christmas dinner with one of your patients, dude.

Steve

Pretty wild. That would not be a very. I feel like that crosses some ethical.

Nic

Lines gonna drive people from the profession if that becomes the case.

Steve

My wife does have a doctorate in psychology. I should ask her explicitly if that's, you know, appropriate.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Ethical behavior.

Nic

Say, oh, are we gonna have family Christmas this year or are you gon be at some rando's house watching them throw vases at each other? Oh my God, I do love that the all the cops, because they're buddies with Lloyd's brother that they like just want to come by to say hi. Like they're all excited to see him and Lloyd's brother. I don't. I think we talked about it before, but not on the pod is played by the dude who's. Who hooks Mike McD up with like the cop poker game and rounders.

Steve

That's right. The, the, the cat. I believe that's the municipal employees game.

Nic

Right.

Steve

That they go through. I think his name is Sean in that one.

Nic

But yeah, great, great character actor though. He's around a bunch. Yeah. So the cops show up to stay high and they're also like Gus with Lloyd. And Caroline is meeting in like the Harry Potter under stairs closet. Which I always like to see. A nice under stairs closet.

Steve

Absolutely. There is a moment just before Phil and Steve show up at the Chasseur house that we cut to Lt. Huff's office where that same guy that was like the head town council dude is back to let him know he's been fired. Basically. Like, you know, you lost this tape like all this stuff. You're fired. You're out of here the day after Christma. At which hough looks up to him and goes, I nailed your wife.

Nic

Bob.

Steve

Last summer after the town meeting, you were on road, you were in Rhode island on business three times. She said you never went three times, Bob. I just love. It's one of my favorite moments. But yeah, so. And when he says that the dude. There's a really great movie. The actor who plays the like rich wealthy dude, his eye twitches. Just one of them in a really great way.

Nic

When he says that he plays the colonel in Boogie Nights, and there's like a. A crazy arc with him, but he basically ends up in prison. And like, his brokenness as that character, like, once he kind of is punished for. For what he does, like, is very good. So, yeah, I noticed him as like, oh, that guy's been good in a lot of other stuff. So, yeah, that was a nice scene.

Steve

So, yeah. So now Phil and Steve, the bumbling cops, have showed up at the shir house. They're. Lloyd is like, trying to let them not come in because Gary's not there yet. So, like. And they're like, oh, can we come in and wait for Gary? And he's like, no, that's not that. And of course we know. Not that Lloyd knows, but we know they've seen Gus's face, right? So if they were to see Gus, it would be all over kind of thing. And so eventually they. They do let them in. Murray calls, and Caroline, one of the cops, answers like, you know, the guy Murray's like, is Gustan. He's like, no, this is like lieutenant whatever. Like, you know, like he says his name or whatever. Yeah. And Murray just hangs up. And. And then like, when he calls back and Caroline answers and is like, you know, oh, we're gonna. I'll take it upstairs or I'll go get him or something like that. And she leaves from there, and you can still hear them saying stuff like, you know, you know, what was he saying? Like, oh, every cop and his brother is out there looking. We're gonna find this guy. Whatever. So then when Gus gets the phone upstairs, he goes, Murray. And Murray hangs up. And he's up. And I love this line. He hung up. And Caroline goes, well, he sounded upset. Guess I like, he should be. He's gonna die a horrible death. He's just so bad. Also in this scene and for the rest of the movie, by the way, I love Kevin Spacey's wardrobe. He's wearing, like, dark tan, like, like just shy of brown corduroy pants, a blue denim shirt, and a tie with the little tie down collar.

Nic

Oh, dude, I for sure wrote down blue denim shirt for your Christmas. That's a bold move. I mean, I guess it. I like to go a little more casual if I'm hosting at my own house.

Steve

Corduroy and denim is pretty cash.

Nic

It's pretty nice. I. I think that feels good.

Steve

It's good stuff.

Nic

Oh, my God. So. So Gus has to pretend now. He's.

Steve

Yeah, cuz Connie and Gary and mom and the kid. They've all arrived now. And so there's this big moment where the cops say, hi there, Steve and Phil. But Steve and Phil, I think, do end up. End up leaving. What? One of the things that Gus told them when they said he's like, we're going to unplug the phones, except for the one in the bedroom. You're going to unplug the. You know, the TV's not going to be on. Tell him it's broken or whatever. You know, just none of that because I don't want to be. He doesn't want to be seen the news, obviously, or anything like that. Yeah. But I love one of the kids, the little boy, John. He comes in to his mom, to the dining room, goes, mom, the TV's broken. What are we going to do all night? And she goes, celebrate the birth of Christ. And like, slaps his arm. Oh, my God.

Nic

So we've got the. The guy who's dressed as Santa kind of going door to door. It's dipping back to him at another house, and he's classic Santa. I can't have any more milk, so you just got to keep feeding me booze and I'll just get hammered. I think a Christmas movie has to have a guy who's kind of up in a Santa suit. Like, you can't have a regular Santa.

Steve

Trading Places had it.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And eventually we'll see Die Hard, I'm sure. And that's got the guy in the elevator with the Santa hat getting shot. Close enough. But like. Like, we'll see. But yeah. So I love. The mom is introduced to. To Gus as Dr. Wong. And she goes, you're a Wong? And he goes, well, my mother was Irish and your father, he says wasn't. Yeah. Like, he doesn't even know what name Wong would be. Like, what nationality Wong should be.

Nic

So now we have this, like, everyone, of course, the dinner, all the food is like. You might remember some specific items to point out from the dinner.

Steve

It's ridiculous because it's a. It's the. It's the traditional Scandinavian food feast.

Nic

Yeah. So it's not even like. I think if this movie is made five years later, then it's going to be bizarre. Kind of like macrobiotic, vegan type stuff. Right.

Steve

There you go.

Nic

But in this, it's like around the world.

Steve

So it's weird.

Nic

Organ meats and fish things and just. I don't know. Everything looks gross.

Steve

She was. She was definitely listening. Listening to Enya while she was cooking. Maybe that's like the Kind of vibe. Something called lamb cousins and then some kind of. Of parsnip kringlors or some weird names. I don't know what any of them are.

Nic

It's all like Middle Earth type dishes, you know, It's. It's like what Gimley would order at a.

Steve

It looks like the kind of thing you would forage in a Swedish forest is what it looks like. It's really strange, but. And they're wearing. She mentioned. So they all have these wreaths on their heads with candles that are lit. And she tells them, like, these are Lucia wreaths. They're in honor of St. Lucia who tells the story. Whatever. But I love. At one point she uses that. She says this woman, supposedly that's a legend goes, was burned at the stake, but wouldn't burn. Right. Her faith kept her from burning. Her faith rendered her inflammable. And Lloyd kind of looks and like, raises an eyebrow and doesn't say anything but like, inflammable means flammable. Which I learned from Dr. Nic on the Simpsons.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

What a. Who knew inflammable means flammable.

Nic

Anyway. Yeah, so this is the wacky dinner stuff. Everyone has these candlehead pieces on, and they're trying to struggle through the food and everything while the fights are kind of continuing and. And everyone's stirring the pot, right? Lloyd's mom is just terrible. I mean, people. A lot of people have experienced this type of person, you know, just in life. Like the person who's technically, like, on paper, nice, but she's really. Everything she's saying is so mean and. And degrading and everything.

Steve

Well, and we find out that Lloyd confided in her about Caroline's affair, and Caroline didn't know that her mother in law knew. So that's like a huge, huge thing. At one point, Caroline jumps up to go into the kitchen, which again, I should have mentioned, like Gus said, you two are with me the whole time. You're not separating from me. I need to know where you are. I'm. See you the whole time, like, whatever. So they both kind of have to follow her in. And he's got to make a comment about how it's part of the therapy that he's with them the whole time to try and keep the. Whatever. They get into the kitchen and. And you know, Caroline's going, I can't believe you talked to her about this. I can't believe I've had it with that bitch. And Lloyd goes, hey, that's my mother. And Gus Goes, she's a fucking bitch, Lloyd. Like, dude, like, nobody got. But he can see it, like, oh.

Nic

You know, a detail. I do like here. The candle headpieces. Generally, I hate, like, when I saw that, I'm like, wacky.

Steve

Family dinner.

Nic

How crazy is it going to get? But I love that Caroline's candles started to become extinguished as she was drunk.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And she was the only one that had any extinguished candles on her.

Steve

And Lloyd's the only one that kept it on. Yeah, Lloyd kept his on.

Nic

He was the only one who kept.

Steve

It on because it's like, for her, which is like. I think there's interesting. Exactly. There's an interesting. But I think it's an interesting thing of, like, where are their actual feelings for each other? But, yeah, I love that, you know, it's even got the, you know, the way a wick smokes as soon as when it first goes out.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Really great little. I don't know if I don't know how deliberate that was by director Ted Demme, but it catches a great little moment as she is yet drunkenly regaling them with a story of, you know, before they moved to Connecticut, they were in New York City in a one bedroom apartment, and they would make love in the mornings and, like, this whole, like, kind of thing. Yeah. Which pisses Connie off. She's just like. Like, this is. I'm. I'm done. Like, I can't hear this anymore. At some point here we do cut back to George, the neighbor dressed as Santa. He gets kicked out of the place where he was getting too drunk.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And I love. He goes out to piss on the. The bushes in front of their house. And of course, it's in the snow, so the steam is rising, you know, from the. So, you know, maybe next year Santa is gonna go to Jamaica with the Easter bunny. You know, you can eat your own lousy cooking. Funny guy.

Nic

You can stay with Lionel Joseph.

Steve

Lionel Joseph.

Nic

Oh, okay. So I, I think now we're kind of at, like, they decided, like, we're going to open our presents.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Like, we can't open them till tomorrow. It's like, this is what's happening. We're adults, so we're opening our damn presents.

Steve

Yeah, exactly.

Nic

This scene. Killed me because. Nobody unwraps fucking anything. They're just producing the present from below screen. How cheap is your props department? They can't just wrap a bunch so that you could do multiple takes. Like, what is the purpose of it? I was driving me nuts. The first couple. I was like, there's no paper ripping. There's no bow removal. They're just. They're just fucking producing it from, like, the ether.

Steve

John is handed a large box, and Connie says, this is from me and dad, you know? And then nothing, whatever. But later we cut to Mary, who's sitting next to him, and John is clearly, like, leaning on a Super Nintendo box. He got a Super Nintendo. No reaction. Action for the kid. Are you kidding me?

Nic

It's like they didn't get the sponsorship from Nintendo, so they decided to remove the mention of it. But, oh, my God, because, dude, I. If there was a scene of a kid ripping on. Ripping open a fresh SNES for the.

Steve

First time in 94. 90, this was in Christmas 93.

Nic

That's half a star from me right there. But, like, it was killing me. I was like, oh, this is messing with, like, my expectations of what it's like to open presence. I want to hear some ripping.

Steve

Yeah, yeah. But there's too much then that would distract us from all of the arguing that's happening because still, Caroline and Lloyd are still giving it to each other. There's a really funny moment where Lloyd gives his mom an envelope. Oh, this is from us. It's the next payment of the loan. And she makes a comment about, thank you, dear. We'll have to see what happens to the interest rates in the new year. At which point Caroline, who's drunk as hell, right, is off in the corner. Owners goes, sucker. And so. And so the mom asked, what did she say? And Gary is about to repeat it. Oh, she said, and that's when his wife hits him. And it's just like a very funny kind of moment. Judy Davis. This is where she earns her stripes in this movie. Her, I don't care if I Truck stop waitress. The platinum blonde hair and pineapple earrings. Like, be better than living with a corpse. Like, that whole thing she goes into it is. Yeah, it is. She holds the screen the way an actress holds the stage. And it's really, I think, a really great moment to watch an actress just really, like, dive into this character, understand this character from beginning to end and really just give us an incredibly emotional outburst, really, more than anything. But, like, just from the way this. That she plays this character, I think is wonderful. I think this is my favorite scene of Judy Davis in this movie is this whole sort of like, present opening out in the living room stuff. It's also some of the best stuff in Kevin Spacey. Like, it really. This is like the. The head that. The tip top of the acting in the movie. Movie is between these two characters and these two actors in this scene. And it's just. It's just. This is the therapy the characters actually needed.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Is really the.

Nic

Right. They're kind of being forced into it.

Steve

And. And I love. Lloyd starts telling the story about, like, he's talking about responsibility and why was it my decision, not your decision, all this stuff, whatever. But eventually he gets cut off. He gets cut off by his mom. Why does any of this matter? You're getting divorced and, like, you know, they're talking, whatever. And. And everybody keeps, like, yelling. And he picks up the. The poker from the, you know, like, the andirons from the fireplace place. And he goes over to the Christmas tree and just starts smacking it, smacking the ornaments. Excuse me. Excuse me, Excuse me.

Nic

That looks very satisfying, by the way.

Steve

If you don't mind. The corpse still has the floor. Like, it's just. It's perfect. And, you know, I don't know. Like, there's so many moments here. I also love the line when he. To his mom. He finally stands up to his mother, which he never has done. Sounds like in his life.

Nic

Right.

Steve

But in this moment, she tries to interrupt him again, and he looks her and goes, goes, mother, is there any chance you could shut the fuck up for 10 seconds? Which is just, like, blows everybody away. Everybody reacts. Gus reacts. Caroline reacts. Gary and Connie, the kids. Everybody reacts. And that's when he says, you know what? I'll get you next to your mom a big wooden cross. So when you're feeling unappreciated for all of your sacrifices, you can climb on up and nail yourself to it. It's brutal. That's a brutal fucking line. Yeah, but it works. Yeah.

Nic

And the mom, I mean, she had that coming. It sounds like, you know, she was basically using that. Her control of the family money to control absolutely her kids well into their adulthood and their time with their own families.

Steve

Mid-40s men now still beholden to their mother that way.

Nic

So let's see. So Lieutenant Siskel, now, J.K. simmons, is now showing up because he's, like, kind of tracking Jesse down.

Steve

Yeah, well, he, like, regrets his choices, basically. Like, he gave into the blackmail, you know, paid for the. For the photo, and now is like, no, I need to, like, do this right? And, like, admit to my wife what I did and.

Nic

Right.

Steve

You know, and. And get the money back and. Or whatever. The. Give the photo whatever. Like, wants to, like, undo it all and basically, like, call Jesse out for the fact that he Blackmailed him. And. And, you know, it's obviously the right thing to do. Yeah. But, yeah, like, when. When Gus looks out the window and sees Sisle, he goes, what the. The army's after me now? Like, he doesn't know what the situation is with Jesse. So. So the mom starts trying to go upstairs, and Gus is like, no, no, no, you can't. You can't. You can't. She's like, I'm doing whatever I want. So he gets the gun and, like, grabs her and ends up, like, on the stairs. And she's trying to elbow him, and she's got the gun at her head. And he goes, everybody, shut up. Shut up, shut up. I'll shoot her. And Connie's goes, go ahead, shoot her. Like, this family's clearly done with her. It's like, whatever. Like, this put us all out of our misery.

Nic

She was like Cyrus the virus. So Jesse basically wants to get out. He's like, I'm booking out of here.

Steve

Yeah. I mean, he's collecting his cash from the floorboards. Gus, take me with you. Like, all that crap.

Nic

I'm. Hit the road. And then Gus. Gus has given him the kind of like, oh, you don't want this life.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is dumb, because he does. Jesse clearly does. That's all he wants, right? They have had to tie up Connie and Gary and the mom in the den when Siskel comes and they go in there, and it's like, you know, basically, Gus says something about, like, you know, lady, your husband ain't dead. He's hiding. It's another great line, you know? But they basically gag everybody. Whatever. So now they've gone upstairs. Jessica. He's, you know, out of the closet and. And. And getting his money. The doorbell rings again, and they're just like, God damn. Like, how is it, like, constant, like, traffic here? So eventually, after, Caroline and Jesse have kind of a sweet conversation about, like, what they're going to, you know, what life's going to be like if she and Lloyd get divorced. Like, you know, they're having this conversation. She's realizing that it matters to Jesse, too. It affects him, too. Finally, they head downstairs, and George, in the Santa suit, has let himself in. Yeah, he's, like, standing in the living room, in the dining room or something, whatever. And Gus comes down. He's holding his gun, and. And, you know, George, you know what? Every year, and he's, like, kind of drunkenly talking, he turns away. Gus puts the gun behind his back. And when George turns around, he stops and Goes, hey, you had a gun, didn't you? Yeah. Yes you did. You had a gut. You're the guy. You're the guy. And he like realizes that it's, you know, the burglar. Yeah. He runs toward him like he's kind of like. You ever watch wcw? Bill Goldberg with like the, the torpedo. That's what it looked like. And Gus just gives him a right hook. Hook and just knocks him out. Great. Now I beat up Santa Claus, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. Oh my God. But that's like, that's like pretty much it. I think the last thing is really like John coming out and telling them all that grandma's eating through her gag.

Nic

Yeah, well, so they're kind of. Jesse, basically the plan is that Jesse, state trooper show up to where the boat is. Cuz Jesse, you know, knows some shortcut.

Steve

On foot or whatever path through the woods or something like that.

Nic

His dad says, yeah, so he's going to do that. And then, and then Lloyd and Caroline are kind of arguing to stall the co. It seems like. Cuz they're just like, this guy left an hour ago. He went here. No, he went this way. And they're doing all this.

Steve

Yeah, they sort of like gag themselves over on the stairs when the cops show up. Like they look through the window and they see them like tied up, but like, whatever. And they're just like, you know, oh, yeah, he's going to go to Alapo. Nobody goes to Alapo. There is no Yugoslavia. He said he's going to Yugoslavia. Like there's no Yugoslavia anymore. Like whatever, all this stuff. And they, the cops stop them and go, are there any other hostages in the house? And they both look at you, go, no, because they, there's a den full of like other people tied up. Oh my God. God. But yeah, basically Jesse leads Gus through the woods to like, you know, hey, just go down the street now. And that's where the thing is. Take care. I think things will be better with my dad. And hey, if they're not, I'll blackmail him, you know. And he goes. And so then Gus gets there, finds Murray, they head off and we are treated at the end to a tiny bit of Dennis Leary style standup about how he'll cut Murray up and shove him into a cannon and shoot him to Jersey and then go to Jersey and pick up all the pieces and shoot him or something. You know, this whole kind of thing that feels very much like a ant. Yeah. So, but that is, that is the ref.

Nic

That's, that's that's the ref.

Steve

The whole story.

Nic

Yeah. Well, this was, this was your choice. What do we think of the ref?

Steve

I, I, look, I love this movie, but I also recognize it has serious flaws. It is. It. It's something that I feel like. And I think maybe you can comment on this when we, you know, in a minute. But, like, I feel like if you, if I was coming out this new, I might be made more uncomfortable by some of the fighting and whatever. I don't know. Like, maybe not uncomfortable is my word, but, like, it, it's funny to me, but because I have history with it. So it's almost like these are like an aunt and uncle that I know that, like, ah, they always fight with each other, but they really love each other. You know, there's like this sort of like, they always come back together kind of thing. There's something like that. So I really love the characters. Like I said, Judy Davis blows me away every time I watch this. I love her stuff in this. Dennis Leary is a better actor in this than he is in a lot of the other stuff. Stuff of the era. I think he got better through time. Over time he got better and better, but this was, like, reasonably good acting from Dennis Leary. Yeah. I am a 3 1/2 out of 5 on the ref. I think it is a good, solid movie. I know there's a nostalgia bump in there a little bit for me, but, like, that's where I'm at with it. And, And I love this one. And I watch it literally every year. Okay, maybe not every year. It's. It's not. It's like in every other Christmas, for sure. Like, you know, Christmas vacation and love actually are like, every year. Yeah, this is like one step down from that, but it's definitely in the rotation for me.

Nic

Another great sweater movie. Love Action.

Steve

Yes. Oh, my God, yes. Absolutely.

Nic

Yeah. Well, so I'm glad we got to talk about this. And it's good to talk about it with somebody who has such a positive history of it and has seen it a lot. And I think I kind of saw more in it through our conversation. I will say, generally, just this type of movie doesn't do it for me. Like the comedy where, oh, look, it keeps getting wackier and wackier and, oh, now we get candles on our head. I mean, I was just like, oh.

Steve

Fucking shut the fuck up. This sucks. Where's Seagal?

Nic

They were talking about Seagal earlier. No, but I think that the Christmas ness of it, I mean, is always going to work because you Need a movie that's a different version of a Christmas story. And like, the. The view into the dysfunctional family is definitely a new perspective from what we normally see. With this happy ending. I did find myself not giving a shit, really, about any of the characters. So when Gus and Murray escape, I just wrote, gus escapes. Who cares? So a few things in this were like, okay, this is good. I could have used a little more Leery. It was like, okay, he was good. He was definitely a good actor. Good dramatic, but he didn't do as much of his shit. And like I said to you earlier, the whole credit should have just been an extended rant of him saying what he's gonna do to murder.

Steve

Yeah, that would have given it another half star.

Nic

But I am gonna give this one a two out of five. I think it's worth seeing. It's a Christmas movie and it's short and it definitely has moments. And I will say that the Judy Davis is. Is. Is excellent.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And Kevin Spacy is also in this.

Steve

So just be warned, be forewarned. You have to look at Kevin Spacey.

Nic

So, yeah, this is a two out of five for me.

Steve

And that's five and a half out of ten. Then from the two dads on the ref, I think that's respectable. You know, it works. It's probably pretty accurate. So this was my pick, obviously, as we just discussed. What are we going to watch next? What's the next window? What's behind the next window in the DADV calendar? Nic?

Nic

Okay. Well, you know, sometimes you get, like, Christmas gifts that are obscure, and sometimes you get things that are like, you know, very specialized and something you really want. And sometimes you get something that's right down the middle and that's exactly what you're looking for. And I think with this choice, I am going down the middle to a crowd pleaser and one that I've seen a million times, but I think would be really fun to talk about this on the podcast. We see a few people we've seen before and we're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to night 1990 and our family is going to France and we are not. And we are left in the house. Home Alone.

Steve

Nice.

Nic

We're gonna watch 1990s classic Home Alone. If you haven't seen this before, you are one of the lizard people that everybody is talking about. I don't understand it.

Steve

If you haven't seen this movie before, then I am going to put on my special sunglasses the next time you're around to see your melt face. You they live alien.

Nic

Exactly.

Steve

That's fantastic.

Nic

Formaldehyde face.

Steve

So.

Nic

So yeah, I think it would be fun to watch something that's so like light hearted. We had a couple more adult Christmas movies and this is one coming up that you can watch with the whole family. You can't maybe not listen to the podcast with the whole family depending on what we talk about. Macaulay Culkin, his various histories with certain kings of pop. But I think it will be a fun one to talk about and I can't wait.

Steve

That's awesome. Yeah. Classic. I mean this is like look we Trading Places we saw last week, you know, we talked about like, is it a Christmas movie? We decided it is and I think that's the right call. But. But it's a borderline one. Yeah, the Ref is definitely a Christmas movie. But you know, we saw from the box office it was not a popular or, you know, well received movie in a lot of ways. And it's got that incredibly dark edge to it that really doesn't work for a lot of people at Christmas time. But Home Alone is like unabashedly, un unashamedly, not just a Christmas movie, but a family Christmas movie. And maybe like one of the two or three kind of ultimate examples of the family Christmas movie. For sure, you know, this a Christmas story, maybe Christmas vacation, but even that has an edge to it that this doesn't have, you know, would be a good one. Yeah, but Home Alone, man, this classic. I cannot wait, cannot wait to watch Home Alone and, and chat that with you. That about wraps it up. So if you like what you hear, and we hope you do, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a five star review really helps new folks find the show. If you want to drop us a line, share your thoughts on an episode, tell us what we got wrong or suggest a movie we should do next, you can do so at the show2dads1movie.com. That's the number two and the number one. You can also check out our website at 2dadson movie.com. you can also follow us on Instagram @2dadsone.movie. Once again, this has been the ref, another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks everyone.