WEBVTT

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I'll answer the question. You want answers?

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I think I'm entitled to— You want answers? I want the truth!

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You can't handle the truth!

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Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be

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guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?

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You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater

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responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago

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and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury

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of not knowing what I know, that Santiago's death, while tragic,

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probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque

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and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

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You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at

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parties, you want me on that wall. You need me

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on that wall. We use words like

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honor, Code loyalty. We use these

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words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them

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as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to

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explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps

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under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner

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in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went

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on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a

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post Either way, I don't give a damn what you think

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you are entitled to. Did you order the Code Red? I did the job.

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Did you order the Code Red? You're goddamn right I did!

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It's 2 Dads 1 Movie. It's the podcast where 2 middle-aged

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dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the '80s and '90s.

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Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana.

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Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie.

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I'm Steve. And I'm Nic. And today we are chatting about the 1992

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Rob Reiner, Aaron Sorkin joint, A Few Good Men.

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And Nic, you brought a few good men to the table for us. So why

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don't you kick it off? Tell us a little bit about why you picked this

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movie. Yeah, this is a movie I caught, you know, high school,

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probably when it was released on TV. This was a frequent, you know,

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even though it's an R-rated movie, this was a good USA TNT

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kind of rewatchable thing. So you'd see it a lot, you'd see bits and

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pieces of it. Uh, it definitely captured me. I mean, the courtroom drama,

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it does it about as good as any movie does. Yeah. And there's

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so many good stars in this film, it's even hard to say

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it. Like, when you're trying to think in your head, you're forgetting 3 or 4

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of them because you just can't hold that many names in your

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head necessarily. Yeah. Um, so it was always one that stuck with me.

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Uh, really fun. Very dramatic, very different than a lot of the films

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we've done where we've done a lot that were kind of you know environment based

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and action and stuff. This is definitely just a dialogue movie, and and

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it really grabs you. So I think this is a lot of fun. The other

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thing is that this movie is an all-time favorite of my wife

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Jeannie, who's joining us here on the podcast today. There's another person

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in the room. She definitely influenced the choice. So it's it's one of her faves

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as well. Welcome, Jeannie. Hello. Thank you for having me. Thank you for

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joining us. That's awesome. We've never had another guest on a show besides

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Nic and I, so consider it an honor. I do.

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Absolutely wonderful. Cool. Yeah, for myself,

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actually, no, wait a minute, stop. I shouldn't go there. Jeanie,

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why did you pressure Nic and force him to pick this movie this week?

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What's the deal there? I love this movie.

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Good. It's— I saw it when I was, you know,

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14 or something, and I just It's just so

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good. Every time it's on TV, you stop, or I stop anyway.

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I would always watch it. Tom Cruise,

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Scientology stuff, whatever. I love him. He's such a good actor,

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especially '80s and '90s movies. Tom Cruise, love him.

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It's just so good. I just love it. So thank you for doing it.

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Yeah, absolutely. I love this movie too. So thank you both so much

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for for making me watch it this week. That was wonderful.

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I am a huge. like nerd for dialogue

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and character-driven, you know, movies. And I was a stage actor for many years.

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And so Aaron Sorkin hits all the fucking buttons for me, all the right notes.

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And this is one of— this is probably my fa— no, this is my second

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favorite Aaron Sorkin film. The American President

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is, in my opinion, the best movie he ever made. I like that one too.

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It's really fantastic. And then obviously West Wing, love The West Wing.

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You know, I've seen so much of his stuff, Sorkin stuff on TV, and it's

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all great. And I do love— we were talking a little bit when we announced

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this last week Last week, uh, for our So I Met Your Axe Murderer episode,

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we talked about this one at the end. And, uh, I mentioned, of course,

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you know, it says at the beginning, but this is based off of a play.

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And it's got that vibe of like limited number of, uh,

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of locations, very dialogue-driven, very character-driven.

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You know, there's never— there's not like an action scene or anything remotely like

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an action scene anywhere in this movie. No, sometimes they're showing things that

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they're describing like in a flashback thing that wouldn't appear

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in a play. But yeah, it is very much like what the characters are saying,

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that's the important thing. Exactly. So yeah, very excited. This is one that

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I have loved. It sounds like just like you two have for years and years.

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So very excited to chat about it. Let's jump into the facts on

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A Few Good Men. The film A Few Good Men was released on December 11th,

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1992, the day before my 13th birthday, which is— All right.

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Just a fun little thing. With an R rating, a running time of 138 minutes,

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which puts it kind of high up on our list of movie length there.

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Directed by Rob Reiner and written by Aaron Sorkin, A Few Good Men stars

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Tom Cruise, Jack Nicholson, and Demi Moore, and like,

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a dozen other people you would be good to point out. Yes. Uh,

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scores: Rotten Tomatoes, 85% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, nice solid

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score. IMDb, a 7.8, very, very good. Um, the rare

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Siskel and Ebert split decision that doesn't go the way it normally does.

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This was a thumbs up from Gene Siskel and a thumbs down from Roger Ebert,

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which is— I don't know what you're looking at, Rog. Yeah, like he

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would have been with us here. Maybe Tom Cruise has too threatening of a jawline.

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That might be it. That's true, especially that man. Yeah. But no,

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normally Siskel's the putz and Ebert's the homie, and it's flip-flopped here. Yeah. So,

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oh well. Lots of awards activity on this. Not a lot

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of wins. Really one kind of major win I could find, but tons of nominations.

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This was nominated for 4 Oscars in 1993,

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including Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor for Jack Nicholson, Best Sound,

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and Best Film Editing. At the 1993 Golden Globes, it was nominated

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for Best Picture Drama, Best Director, Best Lead Actor in a

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Drama for Cruise, Best Supporting Actor in a Drama for Nicholson and Best Screenplay for

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Sorkin. At the 1993 MTV Movie Awards, its one kind of major win was Best

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Movie of the Year at the 19— at the MTV Movie Awards that year.

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But it was also nominated for Best Female Performance for Demi Moore.

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Both, both Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson were nominated for Best Male Performance.

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Cruise was also nominated for Most Desirable Male, while Nicholson also

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netted a nomination for Best Villain. All right. On a $40 million budget,

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which I feel like went half Or more to the cast.

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It earned $243.2 million at the

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box office, 6 times what it cost. So by all measures,

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an absolute smash hit. And that, uh, those are

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the facts on A Few Good Men. All right, let's jump

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in. Yeah, let's get it started. So, uh, we're kicking

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off, we're in, uh, the U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay

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at night. There's very ominous music playing, and we kind of see

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a couple of, uh, a couple soldiers there in the shadows. who grab a 3rd

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soldier out of his bunk. And, uh, and they start, you know, they grab

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him, they, uh, shove a rag in his mouth, they duct tape around

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his head and stuff. And, you know, they're really roughing him up. So we

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get that very, like, intense scene to kick us off. We don't get a resolution

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to it. They're just like, they grab this guy. They're fucking that boy up.

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And then, uh, and then it flashes to an American flag

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and then, like, the crispiest dressed military people I've ever

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seen. Doing the coolest. This is like the Marines color guard or something like that,

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or it is called the Marine Silent Drill Patrol. Okay,

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or platoon rather. Excuse me, the Marine Silent Drill Platoon. The silent drill

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is the name of that activity where they're spinning the rifles and stomping

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and doing the different kind of choreographed things. The reason it's called silent drill is

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that there are no instructions barked by anyone. Like a lot of times when soldiers

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drill, they're being led by like a drill sergeant or something, right? You know,

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oop, oop, oop, like all that stuff. So there's no vocal indicators

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of sequencing or synchronicity in the silent drill. It just has to

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be choreographed and practiced so much that they're able to just do it. And the

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official kind of, you know, there is an ultimate

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sort of level of this, which is to be assigned to the Marine Silent Drill

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Platoon. And that is literally who this is. These were not actors. These were not

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people trained to do this. It would have taken way too long. Yeah. So they

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got the real guys to come and do it. And it really is very cool.

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It is really cool. Absolutely. Kind of a waste of like a skilled

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military guy, though. You're like, hey, we could kill Osama bin Laden,

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but our best guy's twirling a rifle right now. Wow. See, this just belies your

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misunderstanding of the military, man. That was the Navy. Those were the SEALs.

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Come on, man. These are the Marines. Anyway, so we are, yeah, we are at

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the JAG Corps offices in Washington, D.C. The JAG Corps, the Navy

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Judge Advocate General, which is basically the lawyers for like all the military practically.

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And yeah, we're meeting, I think we initially meet Jo Galloway,

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Lieutenant Commander Jo Galloway, played by Demi Moore. And she

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is bringing to the attention of her superiors that something has happened at

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Guantanamo Bay. Yes. And, uh, and she's kind of telling the

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story. The information that she knows is there's been a, uh, a private who's

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stationed there, uh, named, uh, Willie— William Santiago. Right.

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Right. And, uh, and he's died, um, and they're

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trying to investigate the circumstances around his death. And what she says is that,

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you know, from what I hear, this sounds like a code red. It kind of

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explains what that is, you know, that this is, uh, an unofficial

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disciplinary technique that they would use in military circles

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to kind of keep the soldiers in line. Like, it could never be signed off

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on by the military officially, but this is like, you know,

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we're the ones who do what you gotta do to get the job done kind

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of shit, right? So, and, you know, this is upsetting. The brass

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does not want to hear about this. Like, they— I don't want you to come

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in my office talking about no code red. No, exactly. You know, so, uh,

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so they don't want her involved in this very much. Well, it's funny because they

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say like, you know, hey, uh, could you like leave the room or whatever?

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She's like, well, I'd really rather not. He's like, well, I'd really like you to

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leave so we can talk about you behind your back. At least he's honest to

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her. And of course— and Jeanie, I want your opinion on this, he says,

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you know, he tells— the commanding officer tells Joe,

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well, the right man for the job will be assigned. I think it was a

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very pointed way to say it. Yeah, sure,

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absolutely. Well, G.I. Jane hadn't introduced the

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concept of women in the military yet when this movie came out.

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She'll get there eventually. Demi always leads the way.

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Yeah, so, you know, they're kind of pushing her away from him. And now

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we get, we get to We see Tom Cruise's character, right? Uh, Caffey.

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And he is, uh, doing batting practice.

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He's looking cool as hell, uh, hitting some BP out

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to his softball teammates and everything. He's the defense attorney, right? Right. And I'm

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assuming either the shortstop or the second baseman because he's— has to be, right?

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He is very Dustin Pedroia-ish. Yeah, I was thinking, you know,

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I was thinking David Eckstein, but yeah. So much grit, so much,

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so much grit and hustle. Yeah, but he's out there practicing

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basically. And he's bargaining for his client, like, as somebody

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approaches him, right? Right, yeah, there's some other lawyer who I think is a guy

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that we've seen in stuff too. I recognized it, but I didn't wanna like look

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him up. But basically like, yeah, he like argues for,

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you know, a plea deal and like, you know, a lesser sentence and all this

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stuff. All I'll say though for sure is that Tom Cruise's swing

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is dogshit. Like, he cannot hit for shit. Like, it is really quite

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ugly. It is, you can see when someone swings a baseball bat whether they grew

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up being yelled at at by somebody else's dad about how to swing better and

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played a lot of Little League, or if you never got yelled at like that

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as a kid. And I can tell that Tom Cruise was not yelled at when

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it comes to a baseball diamond. Like, he— somebody needs to scream at that boy

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much, much more vociferously about, like, not looking like a fucking hitching robot

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while you swing. It's really bad. Oh, see, I did not notice that. Oh no,

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it's bad. Are there any famous Scientologist athletes? I'd like to

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know if they're— like, I don't really hear that much. They're mostly actors. You don't

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get— you don't get a lot of, like, You know, too many— like, Trout is

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a Scientologist or anything. Too many white pro athletes are like dyed-in-the-wool hunting

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camo Christians, so it's kind of like hard for them to also be Scientologists.

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So yeah, no room. I, I just worship gun Jesus.

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Exactly. Um, so, so he ends up successfully—

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what we see here is that Caffey is like successfully bargaining for his

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client. He's quick and he's kind of known as the plea bargain guy,

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right? Yes, right. So we get that laid out, uh,

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Is this where we hear about Lionel Caffey, or is that a little later?

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It's 'cause I wanna call out when that happens. A little later. Remind me when

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we get there, 'cause Jesus Christ. Anyway, yes, but then we cut to

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his superior, it seems, who is, all I know for sure is the guy who

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betrayed Harrison Ford on Air Force One. Also Todd, the stepdad from Terminator

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2. Oh, that's right, he is Todd. Stabbed through the throat while he's drinking milk

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out of the carton. Wolfie's just fine, Wolfie's just fine.

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But he's there, and so we meet Sam Weinberg, who works with

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Danny Caffey. Caffey is Tom Cruise's character. Sam Weinberg is,

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uh, Kevin Pollak. And we're told that he, you know,

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like has a new baby. Oh, baby's gonna talk any day now, whatever. I think

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they think the baby's under 1. I'm like, I mean, come on. Yeah, baby's not

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talking at 1. What are you talking about? Look, parents, I will say this overall,

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like, for your kid to officially talk, it needs to be able to be understood

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by a stranger. Yes, exactly. Like, if you say like, oh yeah, he totally said

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daddy, that's a dog. And it's like, no, he, he has a bubble coming out

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of his mouth right now. He's not saying that shit yet. I understood my cat.

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At times. Yeah, that doesn't mean anybody else does. It doesn't mean the cat can

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talk. It just means I understood them. Like, yeah, yeah.

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Um, so they're gonna get assigned to the case, and, and do not want to

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be involved in this, really. He's just like, what the fuck? You're giving me this,

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you know, murder case, or at least a case with a death on it,

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right? Uh, he's like— he— and we find out Caffey, uh,

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has been in the Navy for only 9 months. That's right. He's known for his

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plea bargaining. Uh, you could tell he's very casual about what he does

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because he's eating an apple in like the most arrogant way during this whole scene.

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Yeah, I hated I hated his eating the

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apple. I really just— it was so rude of him. Is there ever a

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good point where— is there ever a good point on screen where you're hearing and

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seeing someone eat? No. No. No. Yeah, I don't think that's ever— And no,

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finish your apple before your interview. Just— this is— no, just finish it.

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Yeah. And he spends half the time— he's meeting Jo, Demi Moore's character,

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and he spends half the time asking if he's done something wrong. I'm like,

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are you a child? Like, why do you keep asking that? Like, are you hitting

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on her? Like, I don't get what's going on here. Like, Also, are there hair?

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Maybe. Are there snacks in the military? It seems like it's it's pretty regimented,

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right? I mean, he has a loose affiliation. He's not like a real like the

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military. I would imagine if you're stationed at Guantanamo Bay or or maybe

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on the fence line in South Korea, the DMZ. Yeah, probably not so much snacking,

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crunching apples. You know, you're not bringing your your your you know happy Nature Valley

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bar out with you because popcorn. Yeah, maybe less than. But if you're

15:04.500 --> 15:07.840
at the if you're at the Jag Corps lawyers' offices in D.C.,

15:08.340 --> 15:08.920
yeah, I don't think it matters. They probably got a vending machine or two.

15:10.792 --> 15:13.806
You know, they get a bowl full of fruit. Yeah, exactly. So he's just grabbing

15:13.822 --> 15:17.765
that. So basically they're getting information from Joe about

15:18.265 --> 15:21.452
the situation that basically that she thinks that, you know, yes, the basically that

15:21.952 --> 15:25.956
the Marines accused these guys, Dawson and Downey, Harold W.

15:26.021 --> 15:29.098
Dawson and Loudon Downey, basically are not—

15:29.467 --> 15:32.529
they're not challenging like the facts of what's going on, of what happened. Like what

15:32.577 --> 15:36.264
happened happened. They do make mention, Joe does, of like there's a

15:36.764 --> 15:39.550
medical examiner who, or a doctor or whatever, that's, you know, initially didn't say anything,

15:39.566 --> 15:42.800
but then like hours after declaring the The

15:43.300 --> 15:46.660
antecedent dead, like said there could have been poison, or they thought

15:47.160 --> 15:50.660
that the cause of death included a poison element. Right? But it

15:51.160 --> 15:53.560
came later, and it's sort of like whatever. And Dawson, Dawson, and I'm gonna say

15:54.060 --> 15:57.640
Dawson and Donnie over and over again. But those two are your element,

15:58.140 --> 16:02.040
Dawson. Those two are like, "No, we didn't like poison a rag.

16:02.540 --> 16:05.440
That's crazy." This was like whatever. So you know, to her, this seems like a

16:05.940 --> 16:07.600
very like there's a lot of nuance here. Like that we got to figure out

16:08.100 --> 16:10.956
what's wrong. And all Kathy's hearing is like plea bargain. Yeah, I'll give him 12

16:11.456 --> 16:14.458
years. It'll be fine. Because he doesn't even see this as, as like a dead

16:14.490 --> 16:17.654
guy and 2 guys on trial. He's just like, oh, what,

16:17.782 --> 16:20.834
that's normally 20 years? Yeah, I'll get you, I'll get you half that, and that

16:21.334 --> 16:23.725
makes me awesome. Exactly right. That makes me good at my job. Yeah.

16:24.705 --> 16:28.191
So, uh, we get kind of a cool scene. So, um, so Caffey

16:28.223 --> 16:31.837
and Sam are gonna go off to Cuba. Yeah, because they've been assigned

16:32.337 --> 16:35.001
to this case. They have to do some looking around, and then we get a,

16:35.354 --> 16:38.889
uh, flashback where it's a voiceover of Santiago

16:38.970 --> 16:42.007
reading this letter, right, that he had written to the top brass saying,

16:42.505 --> 16:45.188
you know, I'm not safe here, like, I need to get out of here.

16:45.558 --> 16:48.450
And indicating too that this is not the first time I've said this, like,

16:48.466 --> 16:51.327
I'm trying to get out of here, uh, you know, I fear for my danger,

16:51.359 --> 16:55.103
I'm not up to this. Also, there was an errant shot fired,

16:55.167 --> 16:58.525
like, at the fence line that I have information about if you're able

16:59.025 --> 17:02.189
to transfer me out. Yeah. Uh, and we get this whole You know, we get

17:02.689 --> 17:06.110
to see him kind of struggling during the runs and everything, and and being

17:06.206 --> 17:09.645
brought from behind. So yeah, pretty pretty

17:09.677 --> 17:13.453
effective, I think. And then we get a meeting of the of the brass,

17:13.517 --> 17:17.309
which we get introduced to Colonel Jessup for the first time, Jack Nicholson,

17:17.630 --> 17:21.214
who's there with Kiefer Sutherland, who is John

17:21.551 --> 17:24.909
John Kendrick Jonathan Kendricks Kendrick Lieutenant Kendricks, and then and then

17:25.006 --> 17:27.976
J.T. Walsh, Matthew McConaughey. Markinson.

17:28.072 --> 17:31.726
Markinson. Colonel Markinson. He is a lieutenant colonel, so a step below

17:31.854 --> 17:35.492
of the full bird colonel that Jessup is. But yeah, Colonel Markinson is

17:35.524 --> 17:39.178
the XO, or executive officer, for Rifle Security Company

17:39.194 --> 17:42.735
Windward there at Guantanamo Bay. And Jessup's in charge,

17:42.815 --> 17:45.476
and then Kendrick is like next in line basically, which is like a little odd

17:45.976 --> 17:49.001
because there's a lot of ranks between lieutenant colonel and lieutenant.

17:49.370 --> 17:52.415
Like many, many. But supposedly he's the next sort of like,

17:52.687 --> 17:55.331
I don't know, platoon or battalion. I can't remember which size is which, but like

17:55.620 --> 17:58.408
he's in charge of Dawson and Downey and Santiago basically.

17:58.790 --> 18:02.810
And so, you know, Jessup, you know, Markinson suggests,

18:03.310 --> 18:05.990
hey, we should probably transfer him. Like, people are gonna find out there's a leak

18:06.490 --> 18:08.650
and he's gonna get in trouble. Like, we should just go ahead and transfer him.

18:09.150 --> 18:12.710
And Jessup's like, no, like, we should train him. Like, he makes an argument

18:13.210 --> 18:16.610
that is clearly like a bullshit, I'm gonna make an argument because I've already decided

18:17.110 --> 18:18.990
like what I think is right. But he kind of tries to make this argument

18:19.490 --> 18:21.950
about like, well, if we ship him off to some other Marine base somewhere and

18:22.450 --> 18:25.830
he's not up to par as a Marine, that just puts other people in danger

18:26.330 --> 18:28.470
and we are not doing our jobs to train him if we do that,

18:28.970 --> 18:32.290
which is— Which is, I mean, he's kind of making like the pedophile priest

18:32.790 --> 18:36.230
argument. A little bit. Like, look, Santiago, there's a million things he could do in

18:36.730 --> 18:39.350
the Marines. The Marines do a ton of things, so he doesn't have to be

18:39.850 --> 18:43.770
at the like highest leverage position, right? You know, so yeah, there's plenty

18:44.270 --> 18:47.770
of shit he could fucking do. Although I think enlisted Marines are pretty generally riflemen,

18:48.270 --> 18:50.130
I think though. Like, I think it's officers, it's a different thing. But like,

18:50.630 --> 18:53.630
there is kind of a thing where there is a base level of— he probably

18:54.130 --> 18:57.690
shouldn't be a Marine. Like, to be totally honest, Willie Santiago probably should go home.

18:58.190 --> 18:59.550
Yeah, he should probably be discharged and sent home. He probably shouldn't be a U.S.

19:00.050 --> 19:03.730
Marine. And that sucks. What he shouldn't be is fucking killed for it.

19:04.070 --> 19:08.070
So, like, there is that. But yeah, so basically Jessup decides,

19:08.570 --> 19:11.490
no, Santiago stays. And then we get this sort of, like, struggle moment between Jessup

19:11.990 --> 19:15.510
and Markinson where, you know, they— he gives— Jessup gives us a little background about,

19:16.010 --> 19:18.150
like, oh, we came up together through the, you know, academy and through whatever.

19:18.650 --> 19:21.880
We got commissioned together. And yet I've risen in the ranks faster.

19:22.030 --> 19:25.430
Honestly, not that much. It's not like the dude's still, like, Lieutenant Commander Markinson.

19:25.930 --> 19:29.110
He's fucking Lieutenant Colonel Markinson. Like, he's right there, you know? Yeah. But he's like,

19:29.610 --> 19:30.710
you know, if that's a problem for you, like, I'm so sorry, you know,

19:31.210 --> 19:34.931
all that. that shit. But basically we get the idea Markinson's got

19:35.431 --> 19:38.946
a little bit of scruples, Jessup has fucking none, and that's the kind

19:39.446 --> 19:42.382
of struggle between those 2 officers on base. And,

19:42.479 --> 19:46.253
and what we're left with is the decision is Jessup

19:46.753 --> 19:50.043
doesn't want him transferred out of there. He will stay. So, yep. And, and he

19:50.493 --> 19:54.106
reprimands Markinson for questioning his authority in front of Kiefer,

19:54.267 --> 19:57.173
which you don't do that. No, I mean, I know that. I'm not in the

19:57.334 --> 20:00.626
Marines. I know you don't do that. Have Kiefer Sutherland's ears always looked that fucked

20:01.126 --> 20:03.880
up, or does he just usually have longer hair? Because they look fucked up in

20:04.380 --> 20:07.460
this movie. Think they're always that way. I would assume they probably have to be,

20:07.960 --> 20:09.700
but I guess he just has longer hair and other because it's really high and

20:10.200 --> 20:12.960
tight. He's got like completely shaved sides. You know the real buzz cut, but they're

20:13.460 --> 20:16.960
like very oddly folded or something. Something about dad had those

20:17.460 --> 20:20.700
ears too. Really? Okay. Anything like just just big weird ears? Yeah. They must always

20:21.200 --> 20:23.420
have longer hair because I've never noticed it on any of the. Yeah. I can

20:23.920 --> 20:27.500
absolutely have for Sutherland ears now. It's like

20:28.000 --> 20:31.320
the opposite of cauliflower ears. They look like pasted down instead of like bulky up.

20:31.820 --> 20:35.614
Yeah. Um, so we, we kind

20:36.114 --> 20:39.064
of flash back to the present. Okay, we've got, we got Dawson and Downey,

20:39.112 --> 20:42.577
who are the 2 Marines that are arrested, and they're in cuffs. They're being taken

20:42.882 --> 20:45.690
out of, you know, they've arrived in DC to meet their lawyer.

20:46.909 --> 20:50.808
Dawson is, um, like higher ranking

20:50.824 --> 20:54.338
than Downey, right? Corporal. Yeah, so he's, he's like sees over this other

20:54.370 --> 20:57.996
guy. He's more with it. He's more calm. He's more like

20:58.205 --> 21:01.334
just dealing with what's happening. And Downey is very much like what you'd

21:01.834 --> 21:04.319
expect to be like a young kid who's in the military, and he's like,

21:04.383 --> 21:07.866
oh gee whiz, what's happening here? Well, and Dawson also clearly like is just

21:08.366 --> 21:11.590
smarter. Like Dawson as a person clearly has like a higher IQ than Downey.

21:11.782 --> 21:14.976
Yeah, Downey seems like a dummy. He needs help, you know,

21:14.993 --> 21:18.492
like just kind of even to understand what's going on. And he's clearly

21:18.524 --> 21:21.975
latched on to his lance corporal. It would be like somebody that he would take

21:22.475 --> 21:25.682
orders from and look up to. And has taken on to like kind of

21:25.747 --> 21:29.679
being with him and like following his lead. And there's nothing

21:30.179 --> 21:32.709
inherently wrong with that, Boy Downey really does not know what's happening to him at

21:33.209 --> 21:37.885
all in this. It is almost like he's almost like unfit for trial in

21:37.933 --> 21:41.523
a way. Like it's very, very close. He really doesn't. If you if

21:42.023 --> 21:45.032
you make that, if you separate the two guys, oh yeah. And that's the thing

21:45.064 --> 21:48.269
too is actually when we get to the end of it, like Downey really shouldn't.

21:48.574 --> 21:51.603
Nothing should happen to Downey at the end. We'll get there. But like I'm actually

21:51.619 --> 21:54.695
fucking real bad for that guy. Anyway, so yeah. So they're there.

21:54.760 --> 21:57.950
They arrive and they. They meet. Oh, we get a little— we get more softball,

21:58.730 --> 22:02.010
basically. We go back to the softball field. Tom Cruise is, you know, Danny Caffey

22:02.510 --> 22:05.150
is playing softball again, practicing. And this time Joe shows up to be more,

22:05.370 --> 22:08.430
and she's like, why are you here on the softball field and your clients

22:08.930 --> 22:11.490
are sitting in a jail cell? Like, they arrived this morning, they're just waiting for

22:11.990 --> 22:14.710
their lawyer, and you're here, you know? And he— and he says, we need to

22:15.210 --> 22:17.630
practice. There's a lot of flirting, basically, is all it really is. Yeah, yeah.

22:18.130 --> 22:20.790
So he's good. He fires off some good jokes. And then I like that,

22:21.290 --> 22:23.310
you know, he's telling her, like, when he'll make a joke, he'll be like,

22:23.340 --> 22:26.920
That was a good one. You got to admit, he's very confident

22:27.420 --> 22:30.660
here. This is good. He might negotiate himself a little plea bargain into her pants

22:31.160 --> 22:34.640
before this thing is— Maybe. Let's ask Jeanie. Is there— is there anything sexier than

22:35.140 --> 22:36.020
a man telling you you should laugh?

22:39.340 --> 22:43.480
No. Keep going.

22:43.980 --> 22:46.400
I just thought that's what everybody wants. Everyone wants to hear is like, hey,

22:46.900 --> 22:50.380
that was funny. Yeah, people don't get this. When I don't naturally laugh,

22:50.920 --> 22:54.044
I love when someone tells me I should be laughing. It's like

22:54.544 --> 22:57.527
all the best jokes have to be explained. Everybody knows that. Yeah, totally. The explanation

22:57.543 --> 23:00.946
is kind of the funniest part of this joke. Yeah.

23:01.187 --> 23:04.493
So then Demi, and she's talking about,

23:04.622 --> 23:07.752
uh, she knows a lot about Caffey. Yeah.

23:07.944 --> 23:11.347
So she's rattling off like a Nardwuar level of knowledge

23:11.396 --> 23:14.189
about his life, which is really funny. Um,

23:14.333 --> 23:18.009
and she's kind of telling him like, yeah, she is very

23:18.041 --> 23:23.145
stalkerish. Yeah, it's odd that she goes home and just

23:23.645 --> 23:27.196
studies his trash, you know, when he's getting good at softball. So this

23:27.696 --> 23:30.273
is when we learn about Lionel Caffey, right? Yeah, his father. So his father was

23:30.465 --> 23:33.702
a Judge Advocate General lawyer, eventually the Attorney General,

23:34.151 --> 23:37.900
also Harvard Law School. Like, so basically Caffey's following— so this

23:38.400 --> 23:41.121
is what I realized watching this this time. I'd never noticed this before, but Daniel

23:41.621 --> 23:44.630
Caffey, Danny Caffey, is the nerdy Pete Maverick Mitchell.

23:45.207 --> 23:47.947
Hmm. The characters have the exact same wound.

23:48.252 --> 23:51.873
Pete Mitchell's father, Duke Mitchell, was a fantastically celebrated

23:52.373 --> 23:55.847
naval aviator. And so Pete Mitchell becomes a naval aviator, constantly trying

23:56.347 --> 24:00.382
to live up to his father's, you know, history and resume. Same thing.

24:00.815 --> 24:04.484
Lionel Caffey is a hugely celebrated JAG lawyer and eventually the Attorney

24:04.500 --> 24:08.186
General of the United States. And so Danny Caffey, you know, goes into being a

24:08.686 --> 24:12.015
JAG lawyer as well and constantly living up to this, like, standard that his dead

24:12.047 --> 24:15.301
father set. So this concept of Tom Cruise playing these

24:15.333 --> 24:18.802
like characters with dead fathers who did the exact same job they

24:19.302 --> 24:21.933
now do, but they're trying to live up, like it's not unique to this movie

24:22.238 --> 24:25.465
or to Top Gun. I looked really hard to find another one, I couldn't.

24:25.529 --> 24:28.195
I really wanted there to be a third example. The closest is The Color of

24:28.243 --> 24:31.486
Money, but that's a mentorship, not a father thing. And, you know, I don't

24:31.986 --> 24:35.051
know, maybe Cole Trickle had a dead dad, I don't remember. But anyway, so yeah,

24:35.067 --> 24:37.748
I just thought it was really interesting that these 2 characters have the exact same

24:38.248 --> 24:41.650
wound. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Yeah, and and she

24:42.150 --> 24:45.190
knows so she knows all about she kind of knows then which buttons she can

24:45.690 --> 24:49.550
push on him like what's going to activate him. Yeah. And and Joe asks him

24:50.050 --> 24:53.310
she knows what a code red is. Yeah. And you know

24:53.810 --> 24:56.950
then we get we get Caffey asking the Marines about the code red. That's right.

24:57.450 --> 25:00.850
He's asking the Dawson and Downey. Yeah. And their

25:01.350 --> 25:05.110
explanation of I mean again like Dawson is just so like yeah he

25:05.610 --> 25:08.770
gives you exactly what you are looking for. Like textbook definition. Yeah. The answer is

25:09.270 --> 25:10.510
perfect. And they weren't squirrely about it at all. No. Because they weren't like oh

25:11.010 --> 25:14.550
we're not supposed to talk about that. Like, these guys are pretty,

25:15.050 --> 25:18.070
pretty solid. Like you said, they're not disputing the facts of the case the entire

25:18.570 --> 25:22.470
time. And it seems like every, uh, sort of, you know, rank-and-file, like, enlisted member

25:22.970 --> 25:26.770
who talks about code reds, they, they don't— there's never any,

25:27.270 --> 25:30.710
uh, fear, or like, they never talk about them like they're a bad thing,

25:31.210 --> 25:32.790
you know what I mean? It's like there's definitely no element of like, oh,

25:33.290 --> 25:36.330
like the code red, oh, we don't do that. Like, we get officers that say,

25:36.830 --> 25:38.770
oh yeah, yeah, that's not official, we never do that, we never order. But like,

25:39.270 --> 25:41.110
all of the enlisted that say— that talk about this, they talk about it like

25:41.610 --> 25:45.550
it's just another thing. It's perfectly normal. There's no weirdness about it. So the idea,

25:45.630 --> 25:48.900
right, that they would view it as something that just gets done sometimes clearly,

25:49.253 --> 25:52.812
you know, tracks with everything that we're hearing. Um, yeah. And, uh,

25:52.941 --> 25:56.516
and, you know, they go to explain, uh, when they're telling

25:56.612 --> 26:00.123
Kathy about what happened, they say, you know, we taped up his mouth, we gagged

26:00.623 --> 26:02.929
him, and then we noticed he was like coughing and there was blood coming out,

26:02.961 --> 26:06.712
so we untaped him and then we called the ambulance. So again, they didn't

26:06.728 --> 26:09.181
leave this guy to die. They did a thing they thought was going to be

26:09.197 --> 26:13.093
far less impactful than it was and then tried to, tried to save him at

26:13.125 --> 26:16.386
the end. of it, right? Yeah. Um, yeah, they make a big point later about

26:16.434 --> 26:19.807
Dawson and Downey calling the ambulance, that, that, you know, yeah, should matter, basically.

26:20.192 --> 26:23.148
Uh, and, and they're asked why, you know, why was this done then? Yeah,

26:23.164 --> 26:26.681
he's like, well, Santiago broke the chain of command. And, and then he gives,

26:26.938 --> 26:29.974
uh, Caffey the whole unit, Corps, God, country. This is

26:30.022 --> 26:33.588
our code, right? That the priorities that you have to have as a Marine is

26:33.620 --> 26:36.415
your unit, the Marine Corps, God, and then your country, right?

26:36.977 --> 26:39.979
And, uh, and Caffey is not into any

26:40.479 --> 26:43.618
of it. No, because he doesn't really speak a language of like nuance. Like,

26:43.634 --> 26:47.305
he's just like, okay, how— what, what can I do to chisel exactly

26:47.338 --> 26:51.185
3 years off the proposed sentence here? That's all he wants to do.

26:51.329 --> 26:54.407
Yeah. Um, so he doesn't like that. So these guys are at each other.

26:54.471 --> 26:57.309
Like, Dawson and Caffey are not, not cool with each other here.

26:57.581 --> 27:01.589
Absolutely. Um, so next move Caffey has to make is go talk to Jack

27:02.089 --> 27:06.224
Ross, who is the prosecuting attorney for this, for the government. Played by Kevin Bacon,

27:06.963 --> 27:10.510
who we welcome back to the podcast. And Bacon right

27:10.574 --> 27:12.886
off the bat offers 12 years,

27:13.544 --> 27:17.220
right? Right off the bat offers 12 years. And then before,

27:17.252 --> 27:20.479
you know, and then basically Sam's like, well, or Danny's like, well, I'm gonna go

27:20.979 --> 27:23.609
to Cuba and I'm gonna talk to the CEO out there and I'll let you

27:24.109 --> 27:27.301
know what I think or whatever. And he asks Ross, you know, you ever heard

27:27.801 --> 27:31.266
of a code red? And Ross's demeanor changes significantly at this point. And he says

27:31.298 --> 27:35.132
something about like, Uh, you know, Lieutenant Kendrick

27:35.632 --> 27:38.980
told those men to not touch Santiago. And Caffey

27:39.480 --> 27:42.300
kind of goes, huh, that's interesting information, right? Um, and I think, I think Ross

27:42.800 --> 27:45.250
even offers like a shorter sentence, or maybe that's when he says 12. It's like

27:45.394 --> 27:48.153
he kind of really kind of— I think from 20 to 12. That's maybe what

27:48.653 --> 27:52.193
it was, right? And it's like without having to argue, which Caffey

27:52.225 --> 27:54.198
sees as suspicious, appropriately.

27:55.128 --> 27:58.527
Yeah, like they're very aware of the publicity that this, you know, they're not trying

27:58.559 --> 28:01.670
to be like, we treat every single Marine the same because, you know,

28:01.766 --> 28:05.097
we're all the same here. It's very much like, Okay, this is gonna

28:05.597 --> 28:08.077
look very bad for us, so maybe these guys get a little less punishment for

28:08.577 --> 28:11.960
doing what they did. So, so they're gonna go

28:12.460 --> 28:15.972
to Cuba again and talk to everybody, but this time Joe's coming to

28:16.472 --> 28:18.872
them. Yeah, and the way that Joe is able to kind of weasel her way

28:18.937 --> 28:23.029
onto the case is she's been talking to Dawson and Downey and getting information.

28:23.141 --> 28:26.571
And I guess Dawson, like, he's got a family and stuff. Downey only has

28:26.684 --> 28:29.937
really one next of kin that they can identify, some aunt somewhere,

28:30.001 --> 28:33.679
and Joe was able to like Get in enough that his family was able to

28:33.695 --> 28:36.938
authorize her to be his attorney. Aunt Jenny decided that,

28:36.986 --> 28:39.876
uh, you know, feel like— she said she feels like she's known me forever and

28:40.376 --> 28:43.698
wants me to be Loudon's attorney. And so now she's officially on

28:43.730 --> 28:46.427
the case. So, so just to make sure we're clear about the logistics here,

28:46.716 --> 28:50.008
Caffey was assigned as lead counsel by division, which I guess is like

28:50.508 --> 28:53.893
the head honcho bastards, whatever, with Sam as an assistant, uh,

28:53.942 --> 28:57.580
assistant counsel. And then now that Joe is, is as part of,

28:58.080 --> 29:01.060
you know, as Downey's attorney officially. She's also on the case. I think she was

29:01.560 --> 29:03.900
trying to just be like an investigator, 'cause she's like internal affairs, basically. Yeah.

29:04.400 --> 29:06.880
She's like an internal investigator. But now she has the right to actually like be

29:07.380 --> 29:10.180
in the courtroom and like be everywhere that they are. And so that's how we

29:10.680 --> 29:13.640
sort of have 3 attorneys all kind of working one case together, which I don't

29:14.140 --> 29:17.240
think is all that common. I do remember there's a point, Caffey goes to talk

29:17.740 --> 29:19.600
to Sam before they head off to Cuba. They're chatting for a bit, and he

29:20.100 --> 29:22.020
mentions like Ross, you know, with the deal and then the code red. And,

29:22.520 --> 29:25.360
you know, he's telling Sam how he thinks it's suspicious. And he's like, I never

29:25.860 --> 29:29.140
mentioned Kendrick. Why do you mention Kendrick? And then Sam says, Hey, we're going to

29:29.640 --> 29:31.760
Cuba. It's hot. Make sure you wear the whites. And he goes, I fucking hate

29:32.260 --> 29:34.540
wearing the whites, man. He goes, it's like 100 degrees. Like, you better wear it,

29:35.040 --> 29:37.200
you know? So I love, 'cause then when they all arrive in Cuba and get

29:37.700 --> 29:41.020
off the plane, Sam and Caffey are wearing their whites and Joe is wearing much

29:41.520 --> 29:44.939
more reasonable, like, tan khaki, you know, whatever. I think they call them like Class

29:45.439 --> 29:48.460
Bs or something like that, like the other kind of uniform. And that's when they

29:48.960 --> 29:52.520
meet Noah Wiley. That's right. Who's gonna give them a ride. Dr. Pitt himself.

29:53.020 --> 29:55.460
That's right. Give him a ride to the— Dr. Robbie's gonna give him a ride

29:55.960 --> 29:59.050
to the base. And he says, you might want to throw these camo jackets on.

29:59.080 --> 30:01.700
The Cubans see somebody in a white uniform, they figure they might want to take

30:02.200 --> 30:05.380
a shot. Yeah. And then they put their camo jackets

30:05.880 --> 30:07.580
on, but they're still wearing the white hats. Yeah, I know, the hats. Yeah,

30:08.080 --> 30:10.880
why? Yeah. Which is like, now you're just giving them a better headshot target,

30:11.380 --> 30:15.180
right? Yeah, exactly. Also, give me the fucking statistics for how many times the Cubans

30:15.680 --> 30:19.080
ever shot at an American soldier over that fence, please. Cannot be very many.

30:19.580 --> 30:22.800
Cannot be many. So, so now we've got a meeting,

30:23.300 --> 30:25.943
right? Yes. So we've got Caffey,

30:26.472 --> 30:29.424
we've got Sam, we've got Joe, and they're gonna meet Jessup,

30:29.456 --> 30:32.697
Markinson, and Kendrick. That's right. We've got kind of the, the big dogs who are

30:33.197 --> 30:36.515
not on trial in this movie all meeting with each other. Yeah. Uh, and they

30:36.675 --> 30:40.253
know— the, the military officers know Caffey's dad.

30:40.365 --> 30:43.606
They know about him. He was Attorney General. Yeah. That's the deal.

30:44.360 --> 30:48.162
Uh, and, and it's— again, this is a great part that gives you a lot

30:48.662 --> 30:51.609
of information without explaining it. Yeah. The way that, uh,

30:52.138 --> 30:55.407
Jessup, Jack Nicholson's character, talks about, oh, Lionel Caffey,

30:55.503 --> 30:58.789
yeah, there's some, uh, rednecks who didn't want to let, uh, the school

30:58.805 --> 31:01.353
get integrated down in your neck of the woods, Kendrick. Yeah.

31:01.513 --> 31:05.583
And Kiefer Sutherland is just making white supremacist

31:05.599 --> 31:09.109
face during that, dude. It is crazy good, like, how much

31:09.285 --> 31:12.826
info you get without him specifically explaining any of

31:13.326 --> 31:15.775
it. It was just like, oh, I know based on where you're from, like,

31:16.015 --> 31:19.200
this This is something you did not like when it happened. You're Edward Norton in

31:19.700 --> 31:23.210
American History X, the first half. Yeah, literally. The first half of the movie.

31:24.199 --> 31:27.540
But I do love too, there's a great Nicholson line here where he's talking about

31:28.040 --> 31:31.080
like Lionel Caffey. Oh, Lionel Caffey, yeah. You know, it's like, how is your father,

31:31.580 --> 31:33.220
Danny? And he goes, oh, he died a few years ago. And he looks at

31:33.720 --> 31:36.280
him and goes, don't I feel like a fucking asshole?

31:38.260 --> 31:41.820
But they decide to give him a tour, right? And so Kendrick shows

31:42.320 --> 31:44.340
them around and they go to Santiago's bunk and they're able to look around and

31:44.840 --> 31:47.210
they think, you know, The pieces that we're supposed to kind of recognize here from

31:47.710 --> 31:50.110
the scene is the bloodstains, like there's all over the pillow. Like, it's a lot

31:50.610 --> 31:53.390
of blood. It was not like a simple thing, you know? And then of course,

31:53.890 --> 31:57.310
Caffey looks in his footlocker in his closet and all of his stuff is lined

31:57.810 --> 31:59.450
up. His clothes are all there. And he says, hey Sam, we should make sure

31:59.950 --> 32:03.150
we get this, you know, back to Santiago's family. It's his personal private property or

32:03.650 --> 32:07.490
whatever. There's tape. There's like police tape. Yeah. But it says

32:07.990 --> 32:10.970
military police line, do not cross. That's right. I love that they have their own

32:11.470 --> 32:14.630
tape. On the base,

32:15.130 --> 32:18.550
like, would the non-military police have taping authority in

32:19.050 --> 32:22.850
that area? Not in Cuba. Yeah, right. The Cuban police certainly don't.

32:23.350 --> 32:26.310
I just love that. How much are we spending on custom yellow tape? I want

32:26.810 --> 32:30.430
to see that line item. Each roll costs $500,000. Yeah, exactly.

32:30.930 --> 32:34.070
It's the fucking military. Um, but then they decided— then they have lunch, and so

32:34.570 --> 32:37.590
it's all 6 of them out, uh, you know, uh, out in the heat.

32:38.090 --> 32:40.090
Apparently they keep talking about how hot it is, and yet we're gonna sit outside

32:40.590 --> 32:44.164
to have lunch. Yeah, interesting choice. Um, and Jessup

32:44.664 --> 32:48.273
tells them, A, that, you know, he told Kendrick

32:48.321 --> 32:51.307
to tell the men not to touch Santiago after the letter was revealed.

32:51.933 --> 32:55.304
And then he offered, you know, he transferred— put in an order to

32:55.804 --> 32:59.092
transfer Santiago off base, and that he was scheduled to be transferred to the next

32:59.592 --> 33:03.250
flight, which was at 0600 the next day when all this happened. And I love

33:03.750 --> 33:06.493
when Caffey, you know, they get up to go— well, it's funny, they're gonna get

33:06.993 --> 33:10.811
up to go, and Joe decides to really push a line of questioning that

33:11.311 --> 33:14.085
pisses Jessup off. Mm-hmm. And it's clear neither Sam or Caffey wanted this to happen.

33:14.663 --> 33:17.951
But she, you know, is feeling very like, I would not gonna fucking leave here

33:18.451 --> 33:21.913
without getting some answers. Um, she doesn't actually get any because Jessup's

33:22.413 --> 33:25.137
smart enough to not really tip his hat. It was a bad move. It was,

33:25.250 --> 33:28.458
it was, it was certainly impulsive, it seemed, right? Yeah, not,

33:28.699 --> 33:32.308
not well thought out. Exactly. And he— and everyone is trying to rush Joe.

33:32.468 --> 33:36.029
I mean, how many times does this happen just in life where you're somewhere

33:36.238 --> 33:39.093
and you're like, dude, we're all willing to let this go, but we have this

33:39.205 --> 33:42.622
one fucking friend who I know is not gonna let it go? And they're making

33:42.638 --> 33:45.941
us embarrassed here. So Jo— and Jo is doing a hell of a job.

33:46.005 --> 33:48.988
She's the only one doing her job here, right?

33:49.373 --> 33:53.157
But then, uh, Jessup changes the whole tone

33:53.657 --> 33:57.407
of it where he's like completely disrespects her line of questioning and then just starts

33:57.907 --> 34:01.175
talking about, uh, uh, you ever get a blowjob

34:01.240 --> 34:04.751
from a commanding officer? Oh God. Ah, there's nothing better than that.

34:05.249 --> 34:08.215
Oh, for me to do it, they have to elect a lady president. Like,

34:08.552 --> 34:11.793
That's a, that's a hard-ass line. Yeah, it's, um, but man,

34:12.306 --> 34:14.809
he flips on her. Like, they do not respect her at all.

34:14.890 --> 34:18.532
Nope. No, it's fair. Jessup doesn't respect anybody. He extra,

34:18.724 --> 34:21.805
extra disrespects her though. Like, when, uh,

34:22.832 --> 34:26.650
right before this, I think when they're still looking at Santiago's room and

34:26.763 --> 34:30.549
Caffey says to Kendrick, he says, uh, Lieutenant Kendrick, may I call

34:30.597 --> 34:33.935
you John? He's like, no, you may not. I like— I loved how

34:34.063 --> 34:36.807
Matty is there. And then he's like, oh, do you have any problem with me?

34:36.855 --> 34:40.641
He's like, Nope. He's like, you know, every time us Marines got somewhere to go

34:41.141 --> 34:44.796
fight, you Navy boys give us a ride. I like

34:44.829 --> 34:47.797
the Navy. Um, but yeah, before they actually do leave,

34:48.006 --> 34:51.793
uh, Caffey just very casually is kind of like, uh, I'll just need that,

34:51.937 --> 34:55.194
uh, transfer order. You want to go ahead and send that over? That'd be great.

34:55.242 --> 34:58.676
Could you send that to me? And he, you know, Jessup kind of flinches or

34:59.176 --> 35:01.180
whatever, and he, of course, you know, but like, I mean, it takes a moment

35:01.680 --> 35:04.212
and, and it's, you know, Caffey is gathering little bits of info that again,

35:04.228 --> 35:07.483
we've talked a few times You know, recently on episodes of like, uh, movies doing

35:07.499 --> 35:10.559
a good job of like planting things that, you know, the first time you

35:11.059 --> 35:13.555
watch through you might notice, but you might also just kind of like dismiss.

35:13.619 --> 35:16.872
Like they're not moments, but then when they come back later you're like,

35:16.968 --> 35:20.108
oh shit, like they totally set that up. And this is kind of one of

35:20.608 --> 35:23.697
those moments. Yeah. Um, which is great. Yeah, we get the

35:24.197 --> 35:27.767
famous, uh, I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4,000

35:28.267 --> 35:31.388
Cubans that are trained to kill me. And then he takes like the most satisfied

35:31.888 --> 35:35.411
cigar puff I've ever seen. Yeah, it's a lot.

35:35.475 --> 35:38.923
Nicholson is so good. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a real testament

35:39.423 --> 35:42.435
to both the script and to Nicholson as an actor that we get such a

35:42.916 --> 35:46.348
crystal clear view of who Nathan Jessop is in

35:46.605 --> 35:49.748
not very much time, right? Like, even if you count the earlier scene he was

35:49.812 --> 35:53.260
in, to this point, he's been on screen for like 6 or 7 of the

35:53.760 --> 35:57.061
maybe 40 to 45 minutes into the movie we are. And we know exactly who

35:57.561 --> 35:59.595
this man is. We know where he's been. We know where he's going. We know

36:00.095 --> 36:02.914
what— we get a sense of what he's done, even if we're not 100% sure.

36:02.978 --> 36:05.834
Like, we kind of feel like we know. Just such really great work, both,

36:05.930 --> 36:08.498
uh, both in the writing and the acting. Yes, I think they have— all the

36:08.998 --> 36:12.301
characters are kind of like that. Yeah, I mean, the main characters, I feel like

36:12.349 --> 36:15.559
you get that with all of them. They're all just so good. Yeah,

36:15.655 --> 36:19.715
dialogue, everything is just— yeah. Well, you can understand like the anxieties

36:19.763 --> 36:23.101
of the legal team too. And, you know, like Sam having his kid, like they

36:23.117 --> 36:26.504
just— they don't spend a lot of time, but they set him up as like,

36:26.568 --> 36:30.195
this is his life and this is how he feels about the case early on.

36:30.259 --> 36:33.630
Like Sam is not really psyched about defending these guys because

36:34.130 --> 36:38.450
he's saying, like, they picked on a weaker kid, right? Yeah. So that's his position.

36:38.950 --> 36:42.030
Painting the picture of everybody. I think, too, this is a thing where I know

36:42.530 --> 36:44.530
you can obviously hear the difference when the characters talk because you're hearing the different

36:45.030 --> 36:48.690
actors saying whatever. But there's this concept of if you're reading a screenplay, being able

36:49.190 --> 36:52.050
to tell who's speaking without looking at the name, right? If you just— if you're

36:52.550 --> 36:54.750
just given the lines of the different characters, you'd see how you'd be able to

36:55.250 --> 36:57.530
tell them apart. And that's absolutely true, I think, of this. I think all,

36:58.030 --> 37:00.905
you know, especially the characters we get a lot There is no way you would

37:00.969 --> 37:04.872
mistake the, like, natural cadence and vocabulary choices

37:05.209 --> 37:08.663
that, like, Jessup and Kendrick and Caffey and Sam and Joe use. They're all so

37:08.743 --> 37:12.244
unique and different. Their styles are different and everything. And that's, again, that's the thing

37:12.276 --> 37:16.115
that just, you know, Sorkin is among the best in the world,

37:16.131 --> 37:19.665
in the history of cinema, at doing, is really differentiating his characters through

37:20.165 --> 37:23.552
dialogue. Yeah. And this is a great example of it. So we

37:23.600 --> 37:27.190
find out now we're at We're at Danny's house, and Joe is letting,

37:27.690 --> 37:31.430
uh, Danny know that Markinson has disappeared. That's right. Right. So he was

37:31.930 --> 37:35.390
a very important witness to our case, you know, and I don't know if he'd

37:35.890 --> 37:38.840
even agreed yet, but just a guy that was very important to the situation.

37:39.170 --> 37:40.990
And they had planned on talking to him more, for sure. They were like,

37:41.490 --> 37:43.310
well, we're gonna interview him some more, because there was like a difference in the

37:43.810 --> 37:46.830
way he reacted to like the way Kendrick and Jessup were. They spotted that.

37:47.330 --> 37:50.210
Yeah. Yes. And, and one of those things where it's like, oh, this guy spent

37:50.710 --> 37:53.570
25 years in Special Forces or whatever, like he's a ghost.

37:54.070 --> 37:55.150
Like, he's not gonna— he's not gonna come back unless he wants to be seen.

37:58.470 --> 38:01.770
And then I think Jo is— let's see. Well, this is when she actually

38:02.270 --> 38:06.190
confirms she's officially on, is officially Downey's attorney. And, you know,

38:06.690 --> 38:10.030
basically they, they go and they ask Dawson and Downey,

38:10.530 --> 38:13.089
like, were you ordered to give a code red by Lieutenant Kendrick? And Dawson's like,

38:13.589 --> 38:16.330
yes, we were. And he's like, did you fucking think of telling your lawyer that?

38:16.830 --> 38:21.050
Like, he's like, you didn't ask. And it's like, true, but come

38:21.550 --> 38:25.630
on, pretty important part of the story. Yeah, a little self-preservation instinct

38:26.130 --> 38:27.030
would have helped Harold W. Dawson to at least say, like, yes, that was my

38:27.530 --> 38:30.594
order. that was what happened. Yes, that's what a code red is. And oh,

38:30.610 --> 38:33.769
by the way, my superior officer told me to do it. Yeah.

38:33.977 --> 38:38.067
Yeah. He's not helping himself at all. I mean, maybe he's just a really intelligent

38:38.567 --> 38:41.018
student of history and knew that the Nuremberg Defense just wasn't gonna help him out.

38:41.130 --> 38:44.177
That might have been it. Uh, so now we're back with, uh,

38:44.898 --> 38:48.635
we got Kevin Bacon, Ross, and, uh, and Caffey

38:48.731 --> 38:51.955
were playing hoops together and kind of talking about the case. And this is where

38:52.339 --> 38:55.723
Ross is kind of really affected by— he's been been pressured

38:56.223 --> 38:59.616
by the brass that, look, we need this to not go to fucking trial is

38:59.712 --> 39:02.901
what we need. So he's now offering 2 years,

39:03.478 --> 39:06.522
uh, to, to Dawson and Downey. They'll be home in 6 months.

39:06.586 --> 39:09.743
Yep, exactly. And what kind of fucking Kohl's pricing on a

39:09.967 --> 39:13.108
prison sentence is that, by the way? It's interesting too, because if you're, you know,

39:13.252 --> 39:16.376
the military prison is obviously by definition a federal, you know,

39:16.392 --> 39:19.741
corrections outfit, right? And in federal, if you're a

39:19.773 --> 39:22.690
civilian who commits a federal crime and goes to federal prison, there is no You

39:23.190 --> 39:26.080
don't get out half the time. The parole doesn't work like that in federal crimes.

39:26.130 --> 39:28.690
And yet in the military, they're like, it's not even half. You'll do like a

39:29.190 --> 39:31.890
fourth of your time. It's like, why do you bother at that point? Yeah.

39:32.390 --> 39:36.530
But I think it's partly maybe because the additional punishment is the dishonorable discharge.

39:37.030 --> 39:39.410
So it's like, yeah, after you're done serving your time, now you're not only not

39:39.910 --> 39:42.390
in the military, you'll never get a military pension. You'll never, you know, you get

39:42.890 --> 39:45.010
stripped of any medals that you were awarded. Like all this kind of stuff when

39:45.510 --> 39:47.930
you get dishonorably discharged. These guys are young though. It's like, oh, you're not gonna

39:48.430 --> 39:52.078
get a pension for the year and a half you've been in already? Time served,

39:52.094 --> 39:55.623
man. Do something else. Um, so, so the,

39:56.007 --> 39:59.600
um, this is super exciting to Caffey. Yeah, he's like, 2 years,

39:59.616 --> 40:02.807
fucking dude, I am the greatest lawyer that's ever lived. Check it out,

40:02.839 --> 40:05.726
guys, listen to what I got for you. 2 years, you'll be out in 6

40:06.226 --> 40:09.110
months. Yeah. And Dawson's just like, no, like, we can't take a deal. Like,

40:09.639 --> 40:13.087
I am not gonna admit that I did something wrong. I'll stand there and whatever

40:13.587 --> 40:17.496
consequences I face in trial, I'm there for, but I'm not going to I'm

40:17.512 --> 40:21.102
not gonna admit to this, which is yeah, yeah. And Cap hates

40:21.602 --> 40:24.563
this shit. He does. He can't deal. But it's like hard to argue against somebody

40:25.063 --> 40:28.777
who's like, look, if I get wrongfully imprisoned, I will live with that

40:28.889 --> 40:32.719
more easily than I will admitting to a crime I didn't commit. I get it.

40:32.799 --> 40:34.625
Like I'm not saying that's the choice I would make, but I got kids.

40:34.722 --> 40:37.910
That's right. I could be tough. Yeah. When you're in your early twenties and you

40:38.006 --> 40:41.772
kind of you know your responsibilities pretty much don't extend beyond yourself. Like yeah,

40:41.788 --> 40:45.139
I could see being somebody who's like, no fuck that. I'm not gonna. just cop

40:45.639 --> 40:48.383
to something I didn't do. Sure, you know, especially someone who— like,

40:48.752 --> 40:52.912
the Marine Corps is the thing that Hal values more, that Dawson values

40:52.945 --> 40:56.301
more than anything else in the world. And there are definitely situations where,

40:56.317 --> 40:59.610
like, your integrity is more important than your life, and you can decide where to

41:00.110 --> 41:04.107
draw that line. So, I mean, he's already willing to die for whatever Marine Corps

41:04.607 --> 41:08.492
shit he's doing. So, um, yeah, but fucking

41:09.086 --> 41:12.041
Caffey is so pissed at this. Right. So he kind of ponders about it,

41:12.057 --> 41:15.189
but then he does show up that next morning, right? It's like, like Sam and

41:15.689 --> 41:19.219
Joe are waiting in the courthouse, and now— And the pretrial hearing's like about to

41:19.267 --> 41:22.222
start. He walks in kind of at the— or the arraignment— he walks in at

41:22.238 --> 41:25.707
the last minute. Yeah. So they enter their not guilty plea, and we've

41:26.207 --> 41:30.138
got 3 weeks now until the trial begins. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then

41:30.428 --> 41:31.808
I've got a note here, and you're gonna have to help me with this.

41:31.889 --> 41:34.972
I literally don't know why I wrote this. Realizes he was set up. Yes.

41:35.422 --> 41:39.034
So this is where— this is where Caffey is kind of like Oh my

41:39.534 --> 41:43.094
God, they put me on this case because I'm inexperienced and I love to

41:43.126 --> 41:46.400
plea bargain. Like, the fact that basically the

41:46.900 --> 41:50.236
fact that they put me on the case makes me suspicious about the case.

41:50.492 --> 41:54.199
Interesting. Because I am not the guy for it. Yeah, right. Like, they should have

41:54.699 --> 41:57.890
a trial lawyer with like a lot more experience. Exactly. Like, if, if they didn't

41:58.390 --> 42:01.565
want it to go a certain way, they would not have recommended me specifically for

42:02.065 --> 42:05.016
this case. Yeah, it's getting more and more suspicious. Yeah. Yeah.

42:05.128 --> 42:08.830
So he realizes, and then he's fired up, so he's like, all right, Here we

42:09.330 --> 42:12.210
go, guys. We're gonna start working on this case at my apartment. That's right.

42:12.710 --> 42:16.310
Every night, like, you know, 14-hour days, and all I have is Yoo-Hoo and

42:16.810 --> 42:19.830
Cocoa Puffs. Oh, yeah. If you want anything else, bring it. I do— I kind

42:20.330 --> 42:23.590
of feel like the real-life Tom Cruise had a stretch where, like,

42:24.090 --> 42:26.550
that was all he ate. Like, I think he probably most of his life has

42:27.050 --> 42:30.070
kind of one of those freak-ass, like, Tom Brady diets where he doesn't— well,

42:30.570 --> 42:33.810
he'll eat, like, one strawberry a month or whatever. Like, non-inflammatory. Like, you gotta be

42:34.310 --> 42:37.450
real careful about stuff. But I bet '80s Tom Cruise probably had a weird stretch

42:37.950 --> 42:41.146
where it was like someone had to explain to him that like, oh, Yoo-Hoo is

42:41.242 --> 42:44.835
actually not good for you. It's like, this stuff's amazing.

42:45.108 --> 42:48.204
To be fair, Tom Cruise in the '80s while eating his Cocoa Puffs and drinking

42:48.220 --> 42:50.947
his Yoo-Hoo with a nose like that, you know, was sniffing the freaking candy.

42:51.043 --> 42:54.058
Like, I mean, that is a nose built for cocaine. So, but yeah, so,

42:54.476 --> 42:58.053
so yeah, so they're starting, they're meeting at Kathy's apartment.

42:58.341 --> 43:01.405
Sam and Danny are there first. And Sam kind of wants off the case.

43:01.453 --> 43:04.293
He says, hey, we know with Joe on this now, like, are you sure you

43:04.793 --> 43:07.730
need me still? And he's kind of like, look, like You're better at— he says

43:08.230 --> 43:11.290
basically you're better at investigating and you're better at preparing a witness. So it's like,

43:11.790 --> 43:13.610
what the fuck are you good for, Caffey? Like, you're not really good at any

43:14.110 --> 43:16.930
of this stuff. I'm good at being the face of the trial team. I'm good.

43:17.430 --> 43:21.050
I'm really good at having a dad who was attorney general once. I'm good at

43:21.550 --> 43:24.570
name recognition. Exactly. Um, but he basically is like, why do you want off?

43:25.070 --> 43:27.210
And this is kind of what you alluded to, you mentioned earlier, when he's like,

43:27.710 --> 43:29.810
oh, you know, they were supposed to protect people like this. Like, he's a weaker

43:30.310 --> 43:32.990
kid and they, regardless of like what happened, who told them, blah, blah, blah,

43:33.490 --> 43:35.830
like they shouldn't have done this. And they, then they should know that they shouldn't

43:36.330 --> 43:39.890
have done it. Yeah. Um, and then Joe shows up and they,

43:40.390 --> 43:43.490
uh, it starts with Chinese food. Right out the package. There's a— well, there's a

43:43.990 --> 43:46.690
real funny moment where she's like, I brought, uh, I brought paperwork and Chinese food.

43:47.190 --> 43:49.830
I suggest we eat first. And there's this moment where we don't know if Sam

43:50.330 --> 43:52.370
is about to, like, get up and say bye-bye. And he goes, got any kung

43:52.870 --> 43:55.030
pao chicken? Oh, you know what? I'm with you, Kevin Paula. Kung pao chicken,

43:55.530 --> 43:58.930
good as fuck. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't want someone else's— I mean,

43:59.430 --> 44:02.790
just get a plate. I don't want someone else's filthy chopsticks going in and out

44:03.290 --> 44:06.070
of it. Yeah, nobody's like a couple. They're not really that— I mean, it is

44:06.570 --> 44:10.950
a little— yeah. Pre-COVID, guys. Come on. Yeah, chill out. Different world.

44:11.450 --> 44:16.410
Different world. We get kind of a montage here, like a non-song

44:16.910 --> 44:19.750
montage. Well, I think there's like maybe a score behind it. It's not like you

44:20.250 --> 44:23.090
expect a pop song for a montage like this. You don't get one. Like,

44:23.590 --> 44:27.590
yeah, we didn't get fucking Kenny Loggins to write a special

44:28.090 --> 44:31.150
song for this part, you know? I thought we'd hear The Laws for a 4th

44:31.650 --> 44:35.250
time. Yeah. So they're researching,

44:35.750 --> 44:38.050
and they're doing witness coaching, and brainstorming, and giving each other pep talks.

44:38.960 --> 44:42.760
And it's a really good montage. It is. Um, it doesn't, you know, it's not

44:43.260 --> 44:46.480
cheesy in any way really. It's just very effective. And then just the end,

44:46.980 --> 44:50.140
kind of like, all right, we're ready, we're ready to go, we're gonna kick ass.

44:50.240 --> 44:52.590
And, uh, Caffey's like, we're gonna get creamed.

44:53.240 --> 44:56.580
Like, because this whole time he thinks like, hey, I'm down for

44:57.080 --> 44:58.980
this, but this is not gonna work for us. I mean, look, if you think

44:59.480 --> 45:02.740
about it, right, their clients aren't even disputing the facts. So it's like they

45:03.240 --> 45:06.340
have to accept that like their clients took actions, those actions led to a man

45:06.840 --> 45:10.464
dying. And they're not disputing that. So that's gonna be a hard sell for

45:10.496 --> 45:13.721
any lawyer. And now they're trying to kind of bring out this thing where they

45:14.221 --> 45:16.978
are kind of using the Nuremberg defense. They're trying to go with the, I was

45:17.010 --> 45:20.443
following orders, which, you know, does not have a crystal, you know,

45:20.459 --> 45:23.764
a clean bill of sort of like supportive legal precedent.

45:23.812 --> 45:26.973
You know what I mean? So that is definitely tough. I do love, I think

45:27.473 --> 45:30.294
it's Sam suggests that he wears matching socks. Was that, make sure you wear matching

45:30.310 --> 45:33.198
socks? It's like, it's just so weird. thing to say, but yeah,

45:33.840 --> 45:36.826
very important. Oh wait, that's Joe after— Oh, is that Joe? That's right.

45:36.890 --> 45:39.876
After he's— because she says, oh hey,

45:40.197 --> 45:43.472
like she wants to talk to him, and then he goes on like, yeah,

45:43.648 --> 45:47.179
I know you like me now. Like he does this whole thing about, you know,

45:47.420 --> 45:50.936
and then she says that at the end. I think she's like, no, I was

45:51.436 --> 45:55.029
just gonna say wear matching socks. Yeah, it's sort of like his— like he thinks

45:55.529 --> 45:58.464
they've got a Sam and Diane going on, and it's like Diane disagrees, basically.

45:58.576 --> 46:01.320
Exactly. Very funny stuff.

46:01.768 --> 46:05.760
Um, and so now we're at the trial. Yeah. And the families

46:05.792 --> 46:09.063
are in attendance there. Uh, the prosecutor,

46:09.143 --> 46:12.621
Kevin Bacon Ross, has a sick flat top.

46:12.766 --> 46:16.116
I mean, it's good. It is a strong— it's as high as a flat

46:16.616 --> 46:19.916
top can be without like a certain amount of gel. Like, it's probably hairsprayed in

46:19.980 --> 46:23.763
place at least, or a completely different ethnicity. Yeah, exactly. He's,

46:23.827 --> 46:26.740
he's almost Kid 'n Play, uh, there. Um,

46:27.240 --> 46:30.540
there's a jury. How do you get out of jury duty in a military

46:31.040 --> 46:33.920
court? You don't. You can't just throw this thing away. I'm pretty sure they know

46:34.420 --> 46:36.560
where you're at. I think that if you get— if you get called in,

46:37.060 --> 46:39.180
first of all, it's like, is it even called in, or are they just like,

46:39.460 --> 46:42.580
I'm bringing you now? Well, they did say something. They said something during the montage

46:43.080 --> 46:45.980
about, about the composition of the jury and how they're, you know, it's 7 men,

46:46.280 --> 46:49.260
uh, 7 men, 2 women, and neither of the women have children, which is a

46:49.760 --> 46:51.600
bummer for us, but like, we've got to deal with it. Like, they were hoping

46:52.100 --> 46:54.060
for mothers to be there because they can make the argument about like, you know,

46:54.080 --> 46:56.920
Which is like, to me, that cuts both ways. Santiago had a mother too.

46:57.060 --> 46:59.720
But, you know, they were— they thought they could use that. So clearly there was

47:00.220 --> 47:03.940
some jury selection process that occurred. But maybe it's more random and/or

47:04.440 --> 47:07.000
less with the lawyers involved. I don't know, 'cause I don't know much how court-martials

47:07.500 --> 47:10.459
work. But it may not be a thing where they're spending, you know, days,

47:10.959 --> 47:14.010
if not weeks, like interviewing and then dismissing and then doing whatever. I don't know.

47:14.260 --> 47:17.000
But, you know, clearly we end up with this group. And it's like they even

47:17.500 --> 47:19.540
say that, like, they're from the different branches. There's like, there's Navy, there's Army,

47:20.040 --> 47:21.880
there's whatever. Yeah, there's a big variety. So I wonder, like, who's in the pool

47:22.222 --> 47:25.369
And what can you get excused for? Because if it's like, hey, uh, Nic,

47:25.497 --> 47:28.611
uh, I know you were planning on being on the front lines,

47:28.868 --> 47:32.479
uh, in Iran in an unwinnable war, uh, this week, but we actually have a

47:32.979 --> 47:35.674
jury, uh, duty if you want to go sit in a courtroom. It's like,

47:35.690 --> 47:38.836
that sounds dope. I'd be willing to bet forward deployment is a way

47:38.852 --> 47:42.432
out. Like, I think that probably negates— They're probably not yanking you back for it.

47:42.512 --> 47:46.460
It's probably a lot of, like, officers there in DC, obviously, who are just

47:46.960 --> 47:49.847
kind of like other sort of desk-type people. It's probably what it is, but yeah.

47:50.874 --> 47:54.307
But yeah, so we get our— we get opening statements. So yeah, Ross, Jack Ross,

47:54.323 --> 47:57.580
Kevin Bacon basically makes the argument. He basically does what he should as the prosecutor,

47:57.837 --> 48:00.340
lays out the facts and says none of these facts are in dispute. Like,

48:00.356 --> 48:03.516
like, you know, the attorney— the defense is not going to dispute anything

48:03.949 --> 48:06.340
about what actually happened. What they're gonna say is that there's this thing called a

48:06.840 --> 48:09.115
code red and that this meant this and this meant that, and that's all bull,

48:09.500 --> 48:13.479
so ignore them or whatever. And then I think then we get— Caffey

48:13.979 --> 48:17.122
does an opening statement too, right? Yeah. And I mean, kind of, uh,

48:18.085 --> 48:21.296
saying what he's gonna demonstrate. And then, you know, these guys were

48:21.425 --> 48:24.861
not to be touched. Yeah. Uh, and everything. So they were given

48:24.957 --> 48:28.104
orders, and he starts bringing his witnesses up, right? Uh, this is where we see

48:28.249 --> 48:31.974
Cuba Gooding Jr. Uh, oh yeah, we'll later see him in court

48:32.038 --> 48:36.101
as O.J. in the O.J. miniseries about 20-something

48:36.117 --> 48:38.927
years later. Uh, yeah, and, you know, he's testifying. Yep,

48:38.943 --> 48:42.538
Santiago was— Santiago is not to be touched. And I guess they had

48:43.038 --> 48:45.664
like 22 other witnesses that were going to say the same thing. Every member of

48:46.164 --> 48:48.326
the squad. Yeah. Can we agree everyone's going to say the same shit? Like,

48:48.342 --> 48:52.062
we don't need to go through this. Yeah. So some good, like, gamesmanship going

48:52.094 --> 48:56.230
back and forth between Kevin Bacon and, and, uh, Tom Cruise. And when Bacon

48:56.246 --> 49:00.030
gives his opening statement, he even does the thing where he's like, the defense is

49:00.046 --> 49:03.574
gonna try to tell you that they were just following orders. And I, you know,

49:03.814 --> 49:07.246
I, I love where he did that. So this, like, this back and forth between

49:07.746 --> 49:11.302
the two of them is so, uh, enticing and it's so Yeah,

49:11.318 --> 49:13.995
it really draws you in throughout this scene here.

49:14.684 --> 49:17.586
And we get a little bit more of like a more prep montage, a little

49:18.086 --> 49:20.615
bit. There's just like more kind of work that they're doing. And then we get

49:21.115 --> 49:24.046
the doctor, and this is played by Christopher Guest. And he is,

49:24.382 --> 49:27.460
you know, he's like a commander or something by rank, but he's the doctor that

49:27.508 --> 49:31.420
actually, you know, declared Santiago dead and then did the examination.

49:31.917 --> 49:34.305
And the key of this is that at like, what was it, like at 2:00

49:34.321 --> 49:38.232
AM, he arrived and said that the cause of death was like inconclusive,

49:38.681 --> 49:41.615
or it was, or they could claim that he could tell it was the lactic

49:42.115 --> 49:45.754
acidosis, or whatever, but like the cause was inconclusive. Yeah. And then at 5

49:45.963 --> 49:49.300
AM or 6 AM, 2 or 3 hours later, he's like, oh no, there was

49:49.397 --> 49:52.702
poison that sped up the lactic acidosis process. And so

49:53.202 --> 49:57.436
that's like a big thing that, you know, Caffey tries to like push on

49:57.936 --> 50:00.116
is like, well, why was there a change? And like, you know, what else could

50:00.148 --> 50:04.095
cause lactic acidosis to speed up? Right. Um, and actually

50:04.595 --> 50:06.951
I think this is one of— this is one of 2 like witnesses that Caffey

50:06.983 --> 50:09.053
has that he does a really kind of good job with. I think the very

50:09.069 --> 50:12.240
end with Jessup is a little fantasy land that actually gets where he wants to

50:12.740 --> 50:15.340
go. But this one's a really good one where he's like, well, aren't there,

50:15.840 --> 50:17.720
you know, like there's— if you have a coronary condition, what would be some symptoms?

50:17.800 --> 50:19.960
And he goes like, would it be like shortness of breath? Would it be like,

50:20.460 --> 50:21.900
you know, fatigue? Would it be this? He goes, yes, of course, yes, of course,

50:22.400 --> 50:26.040
whatever. And he's got the like report that this doctor did on Santiago that points

50:26.540 --> 50:29.460
out complaints of these, you know, things. And he sticks by his guns and is

50:29.960 --> 50:32.440
like, no, he got a clean bill of health. Like, so there's no— there's no

50:32.940 --> 50:35.860
way he had this coronary thing you think he does. Yeah. And I don't think

50:36.360 --> 50:39.577
that they initially nail it, right? You know, but then Jo

50:39.705 --> 50:43.204
kind of screws it up even further. Absolutely. Yeah,

50:43.493 --> 50:46.334
where she goes to, uh, she goes to object. Yes.

50:46.543 --> 50:50.652
Right? And, uh, and the objection is not— is, is overruled.

50:50.861 --> 50:54.408
Uh, and then she said— says it again. No, no, the defense

50:54.908 --> 50:58.597
strenuously objects. It's like, I'm not a lawyer.

50:58.967 --> 51:02.048
I took the LSATs. I didn't go to law school. That's, that's the extent of

51:02.548 --> 51:04.825
my legal career, is like a fucking test on logic. I don't know shit.

51:05.628 --> 51:09.000
I fucking know you can't, like, just— it doesn't add qualifiers

51:09.032 --> 51:12.243
to it. You don't object more. It's not like a thing where

51:12.743 --> 51:15.936
it's like, well, no, no, no, Your Honor, you didn't hear me. I really fucking

51:16.436 --> 51:19.854
don't want this to happen. Yeah, I know, I fucking heard you. Uh, my clients

51:20.354 --> 51:24.912
plead hella not guilty to the charges. Oh, in that case, case dismissed.

51:26.341 --> 51:30.066
Um, yeah, and but the doctor is doing the thing where

51:30.836 --> 51:34.379
He realizes his professional opinion is being called into question.

51:34.684 --> 51:38.194
He either fucked up or lied. Yeah. And is just like saying,

51:38.386 --> 51:41.176
no, fuck it. No, it is impossible. Yeah. The only way he could have died

51:41.676 --> 51:45.215
is poison. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, yeah, that sucked. And there's definitely a

51:45.344 --> 51:49.207
hit that we're taking as the defense team. Yeah. Um, let's see.

51:49.351 --> 51:52.060
And Sam is— Sam is pissed, right? So again,

51:52.493 --> 51:56.228
there's more of the stuff where Sam is still like— he's not sold

51:56.244 --> 51:59.306
on protecting these guys or trying to defend him. He's like, they beat up on

51:59.806 --> 52:02.127
a weakling. Like, none of this is changing how I feel about this. Yeah.

52:02.191 --> 52:05.562
Sam Sam clearly, like, very much, uh, uh, you know,

52:05.883 --> 52:08.147
kind of thinks of himself in many of the same ways as Santiago. Like,

52:08.195 --> 52:11.501
he really, you know, relates to him, understands where, like, a kid like that

52:12.001 --> 52:14.712
in something like the Marine Corps in a place like Guantanamo— like, the number of

52:15.212 --> 52:18.083
kind of things that went poorly for him where his military career could have been

52:18.147 --> 52:20.908
very different, right, in a different branch or a different post,

52:20.956 --> 52:23.878
whatever. But, but since he was where he was, he ended up with this group

52:24.378 --> 52:27.377
of fucking assholes and was killed, right? I mean, that's just Sam's kind of take

52:27.877 --> 52:30.523
on it. And so, you know, there's a little argument there, right? So they say,

52:30.588 --> 52:33.529
why do you hate them so much? And Sam explains that. And then he Why

52:33.578 --> 52:36.861
do you like them so much? And, uh, and Joe says,

52:37.298 --> 52:41.017
because they stand on the wall and they say nothing's gonna hurt you

52:41.517 --> 52:43.845
today. Worst fucking line in the entire movie. I hate it. Worst line in the

52:44.345 --> 52:47.640
movie. It's so cheesy. They stand on the wall and say, I got a

52:48.140 --> 52:50.837
new Dodge Challenger and kids by 3 different women.

52:51.400 --> 52:54.637
Like, look, uh, yeah,

52:54.718 --> 52:58.036
it is very melodramatic. The thing I like least about the line is how it

52:58.117 --> 53:01.158
mimics Jessup's line at the end. And I think it's in here because it mimics

53:01.658 --> 53:05.361
it. Like, I think that's a deliberate choice By Sorkin,

53:05.474 --> 53:08.524
I just think he's wrong and stupid and shouldn't have done that. Yeah, yeah,

53:08.604 --> 53:11.975
yeah. So we'll move on from there. But yeah, worst line in the fucking entire

53:12.475 --> 53:16.519
movie. So then Joe comes over to Caffey's, knocks on the door, and is basically

53:16.535 --> 53:19.264
like, "Hey," because they decide they're not going to meet tonight. Like, right, take a

53:19.764 --> 53:21.929
night off. Taking a night off. We'll meet in the morning because that was the

53:22.089 --> 53:25.445
that was at the end of this. I think was oh no no there's there's

53:25.945 --> 53:29.924
there's more there. But oh no no that was the the prosecution closed

53:29.956 --> 53:33.247
like that that was them after the doctor. and then they were gonna call everybody

53:33.747 --> 53:37.628
in the patrol, but they stipulated to what was gonna be said. So the government

53:37.724 --> 53:40.678
has closed its side of the case, and it's now on to the defense calling

53:40.774 --> 53:43.358
their witnesses, which is why there's a delay. They're like, we're not gonna come back

53:43.858 --> 53:46.985
till Monday, or whatever, right? And so they've got the weekend to kind of prepare,

53:47.691 --> 53:50.002
but they're gonna take the night off. So Joe shows up at Kathy's house and

53:50.018 --> 53:53.662
basically invites him out to a seafood restaurant. The scene

53:53.710 --> 53:56.759
is fine. The scene to me doesn't matter because we

53:56.904 --> 53:59.728
don't actually have a romance between these two, and it feels like this is a

53:59.744 --> 54:03.064
scene that belongs in a movie that has a romance between these

54:03.080 --> 54:06.238
two. And it's a relationship beat that doesn't make a ton

54:06.738 --> 54:10.197
of sense to me. But, you know, some information kind of like comes out in

54:10.293 --> 54:13.467
this, but nothing that like was super crucial. I feel like it

54:13.967 --> 54:15.503
was just a lot of them getting to know each other a little bit.

54:15.664 --> 54:18.725
Yeah, it does seem like the movie could have taken a different turn and this

54:19.225 --> 54:22.781
scene would have made more sense. Yeah. Or if they arrived

54:22.877 --> 54:26.500
at the seafood restaurant and the last 2 lobsters were taken by Colonel

54:27.000 --> 54:31.036
Jessup and another guy that were right in front of them in line.

54:31.229 --> 54:35.220
My table! Um, yeah, so Joe is optimistic

54:35.720 --> 54:39.629
about this, right? And Danny is very negative about this. Yep. Um, we've got,

54:39.789 --> 54:43.813
uh, now on the stand we've got, uh, Barnes, who's Noah Wyle's

54:44.313 --> 54:47.372
character. We saw him earlier driving the Humvee, and, uh,

54:48.045 --> 54:51.748
he is being asked about the code reds, right, on the stand. And he

54:52.069 --> 54:54.521
kind of explains the situation where he got a code red because he like dropped

54:55.021 --> 54:58.353
his rifle because his hands were sweaty because he didn't use the resin that they're

54:58.401 --> 55:01.831
instructed to used to keep their hands from getting slippery. And it was something like

55:01.847 --> 55:05.406
his squadmates, like, like put a towel

55:05.438 --> 55:08.259
over his entire body or sheet over his body, whatever, held him down and just

55:08.759 --> 55:12.459
took turns punching him for like an hour. Yeah. Or something like— Brutal. Very brutal.

55:12.587 --> 55:15.777
And he's like, hey, I haven't dropped my gun ever since.

55:16.258 --> 55:19.593
It works, sir. That's right. I just wonder, like, how often,

55:19.945 --> 55:23.841
just knowing the different personality types that, that would be there,

55:24.514 --> 55:27.528
how often is that training you to be better and to not drop your gun?

55:27.720 --> 55:30.189
And how often is that training you to use your gun on the guys who

55:30.221 --> 55:33.460
punched you? The next time you get a gun, I think what it's actually training

55:33.492 --> 55:36.283
you to do is to find somebody else who fucks up so that you can

55:36.299 --> 55:39.153
get them. True. Like part of it is really is like, oh, this is what

55:39.185 --> 55:42.008
happens. Let me figure out who I'm gonna do that to at some point.

55:42.152 --> 55:45.857
You know, which is yeah pretty bad. This is one of my favorite

55:46.081 --> 55:50.027
like lawyerly pieces here. So basically in cross

55:50.527 --> 55:54.389
examination, Jack Ross comes up with the United States Marine Corps operating manual or

55:54.437 --> 55:58.254
whatever it's called, like a code of ethics, whatever it is, and he's

55:58.754 --> 55:59.070
He's like, you know, Private, or Corporal, could you show me in here? It's just

55:59.570 --> 56:02.050
a QR code now. Right, exactly. But he brings it up to him, he goes,

56:02.550 --> 56:04.310
you know, Corporal, could you show me in here where Code Red is defined and

56:04.810 --> 56:05.930
like how you know whatever? And he goes, oh no, so you're not gonna find

56:06.430 --> 56:07.830
this in the book. It's kind of a thing we just do down at Gitmo.

56:07.990 --> 56:10.050
It's like, you know, already. Oh, well great, I've got that. So he grabs the

56:10.550 --> 56:13.170
Guantanamo Bay, like, you know, manual. He goes, find me in here where it says.

56:13.670 --> 56:15.950
And he goes, nah, like, you don't really do— it's not in there. Like,

56:16.450 --> 56:18.550
it's not how it works. He goes, oh, so you're telling me that like all

56:19.050 --> 56:21.190
the information, you know, in all your time, like there's— you've never been told about

56:21.690 --> 56:24.637
this? Like, it's not in the book? book. How strange. And when he goes to

56:25.137 --> 56:27.768
sit down, he goes, no more questions. Kathy gets up to do the redirect,

56:27.849 --> 56:30.129
and he grabs the book and he goes, show me where the mess— it says

56:30.145 --> 56:32.730
the mess hall is in here. I thought that was fucking brilliant. That is one

56:33.230 --> 56:37.050
of my favorite Sorkin little writing moments in here, where— because it's so obvious and

56:37.130 --> 56:39.394
it's clearly something the character would have had to think of in the moment.

56:39.940 --> 56:42.606
Yeah, he would not have been able to plan for that. Yeah, yeah, it's a

56:43.106 --> 56:47.552
good move. And you see Kevin Bacon's character, he's like, oh man,

56:47.825 --> 56:51.020
got me. Yeah, got him. Noah Wyle's like, earnest,

56:51.520 --> 56:54.700
like, befuddlement at being asked that question is so good.

56:55.200 --> 56:58.820
Like, he plays, like, just such a goofy, like, kind of—

56:59.320 --> 57:03.100
not even dumb, but he's just so honest about everything that

57:03.600 --> 57:06.600
he comes off like, what? Like, I don't see what you're doing here. And I

57:07.100 --> 57:09.340
love where he's like, you're saying that they don't feed you? And he's like,

57:09.840 --> 57:13.300
no, 3 squares a day. It's interesting, though, to me,

57:13.800 --> 57:16.880
of the actors who, you know,

57:17.380 --> 57:19.680
the kind of famous actors we know who were witnesses, right? So you've got Christopher

57:20.180 --> 57:23.060
Guest, you've got Cuba Gooding Jr., you've got Noah Wyle, I feel like Wiley is

57:23.560 --> 57:26.960
like the best actor. Like, he took the acting the most serious. Oh, he's awesome.

57:27.460 --> 57:29.840
He's so good in this. And it's— yeah, he— I feel like he really developed

57:30.340 --> 57:32.360
a character. And I feel like Christopher Guest is like, well, I'm just gonna be

57:32.860 --> 57:35.480
a stodgy doctor guy. Like, you know, which is fine. Guest is a good actor,

57:35.980 --> 57:37.720
don't get me wrong. But it's like, it didn't— it felt like Wiley really was

57:38.220 --> 57:41.860
like, this is— I'm gonna fucking make a career out of this shit. Christopher Guest

57:42.360 --> 57:45.880
was almost like when Mike Myers appeared in Inglourious

57:46.380 --> 57:50.379
Basterds as like a general or whatever, where it's Like the draw is that this

57:50.879 --> 57:54.290
funny guy isn't doing a funny. He's being like a regular— Maybe. But Christopher Guest

57:54.790 --> 57:58.072
was never Mike Myers level popularity ever. So, but yeah,

57:58.088 --> 58:01.485
I guess that kind of thing for sure. Let's see here.

58:02.174 --> 58:05.684
So, oh, one kind of recurring thing is that Caffey will

58:05.700 --> 58:08.793
go up to this newsstand. He's got this buddy at a newsstand

58:08.905 --> 58:12.286
and they're just like exchanging idioms with each other every time they go up

58:12.334 --> 58:15.700
there. It was like, a penny saved, a dollar earned. An apple a day

58:15.732 --> 58:18.969
keeps the doctor away. And just firing that stuff back and forth. Very funny.

58:19.867 --> 58:22.881
He goes to he goes to his newsstand. This is like the night after the

58:22.913 --> 58:26.376
trial, and he gets in his car, and boom! Markinson is in the

58:26.876 --> 58:30.048
back of his car, hiding in the back like a creep.

58:30.369 --> 58:34.104
Yeah, exactly. Like a poltergeist. But yeah,

58:34.136 --> 58:38.017
he basically says, you know, like Jessup never ordered

58:38.706 --> 58:42.298
Joseph. Jessup never ordered the transfer. That's like the piece of information Markinson

58:42.330 --> 58:44.815
gives him. He goes, "What are you talking about? I saw it. You signed it.

58:44.879 --> 58:47.060
Your signature was on." He's like, "Yeah, I signed it the morning you arrived in

58:47.560 --> 58:50.234
Cuba. Like it never happened." And he's like, okay, I'm gonna put you in a

58:50.734 --> 58:53.616
hotel. You're gonna testify, like, whatever, all this stuff.

58:53.873 --> 58:57.159
So there's that. And then Caffey now has something to go tell

58:57.659 --> 59:01.135
Jack Ross about and be all braggy and shit. Yeah. So he finds Kevin Bacon,

59:01.167 --> 59:04.614
Jack Ross, at a bar, sits down, smug as fuck,

59:04.758 --> 59:07.676
eating his popcorn, ordering a beer. I'll have what he's having, like the whole deal.

59:08.221 --> 59:12.405
And they go back and forth. And basically, the key is he

59:12.905 --> 59:15.291
says, I've got Markinson. I'm gonna get him. He's gonna be witness, and I'm gonna

59:15.791 --> 59:19.356
subpoena Jessup. And Ross is like, "Look, I need to tell you,

59:19.372 --> 59:23.025
like if you falsely accuse a Marine officer of like

59:23.525 --> 59:26.145
a capital crime without sufficient evidence, like you will go to jail. Like this isn't

59:26.645 --> 59:29.317
just getting disbarred. This is like you'll go to jail for that." Yeah. It's like,

59:29.864 --> 59:33.207
I know. It's kind of crazy the stakes of that, right? Absolutely.

59:34.943 --> 59:38.631
So let's see here. We've got oh. So they get in like

59:39.131 --> 59:42.730
they get in a big blowup, right? Right. And the last thing that Because Ross

59:43.230 --> 59:46.550
says something to him about, you know, you're chasing the ghost of

59:47.050 --> 59:50.310
your dead father, which is just really harsh. Pretty harsh. And then

59:50.810 --> 59:54.690
Caffey's response is, well, you're a lousy fucking softball player.

59:54.970 --> 59:58.610
Lousy softball player, Jack. Yeah. So the next—

59:59.110 --> 01:00:00.750
oh, the other thing Markinson told him, so is the, the thing. And then he

01:00:01.250 --> 01:00:03.930
also said that the 0600 was not the next flight off. There was a flight

01:00:04.430 --> 01:00:06.890
at like, you know, 3 AM or something. Well, it was just— it was like,

01:00:07.390 --> 01:00:09.130
no, it was like right at when he was killed, basically. It was like,

01:00:09.630 --> 01:00:12.050
it was at like, uh, you know, 11:48 or some shit. I mean, it was

01:00:12.099 --> 01:00:14.439
like, you know, super, super— it was right near— he could have been on that

01:00:14.939 --> 01:00:17.340
flight. He could have been on it. There's one other. So we cut back,

01:00:17.404 --> 01:00:20.674
new day of the trial. They've now called Lieutenant Jonathan Kendrick, Kiefer Sutherland, to the

01:00:21.174 --> 01:00:23.976
stand. And he, you know, makes sure it's clear that the only 2 books he's

01:00:24.476 --> 01:00:27.150
ever read are the United States Marine Corps Code of Ethics and the King James

01:00:27.262 --> 01:00:30.340
Bible. Fucking moron. Anyway,

01:00:30.933 --> 01:00:34.651
and so— He's read a whole ton of Jack Reacher books by

01:00:34.796 --> 01:00:37.777
now. I was thinking Mein Kampf would have been high on his list, but you

01:00:38.277 --> 01:00:41.195
know. Um, uh, so they're questioning Kendrick,

01:00:41.372 --> 01:00:45.352
who is the direct kind of superior to Dawson and Downey, and he's saying,

01:00:45.609 --> 01:00:49.156
you know, Hal Dawson, like, here's his record, his service record,

01:00:49.557 --> 01:00:53.056
exemplary scores, you know, up until this point when

01:00:53.233 --> 01:00:56.603
he started getting bad grades, right? And they're asking, like, you know,

01:00:56.764 --> 01:00:59.989
why, why did you do that? Yeah, basically the story Caffey's

01:01:00.489 --> 01:01:02.557
trying to tell and what probably really happened, but what he doesn't really get Kendrick

01:01:03.057 --> 01:01:06.375
to fully admit to, obviously, is That like Dawson was great. Dawson was an exemplary

01:01:06.875 --> 01:01:11.154
Marine. Da da da da da until he like went against

01:01:11.654 --> 01:01:14.506
a code red that was ordered on somebody else who was told to just they

01:01:15.006 --> 01:01:17.745
were not going to get any food. They only got water and vitamin supplements for

01:01:17.873 --> 01:01:21.770
a week. Yeah, and he snuck him food. And and the idea is that

01:01:21.802 --> 01:01:25.651
that Kendrick then punished Dawson for doing that by giving

01:01:26.151 --> 01:01:28.136
him this below average review, and it like screwed up his he would have gotten

01:01:28.636 --> 01:01:31.392
promoted to full corporal instead of lance corporal. Like that kind. of thing. Um,

01:01:32.211 --> 01:01:34.778
because Caffey's making the point that like, oh, so in other words, when you order

01:01:34.794 --> 01:01:38.356
a code red and then it doesn't— isn't followed, there's like— there's punishment,

01:01:38.404 --> 01:01:41.837
clear punishment. Like, he knows what he's, you know, whatever. Uh, and he doesn't

01:01:42.337 --> 01:01:44.966
really get Kendrick to admit to any of that. Yeah, he's— he stays, you know,

01:01:45.062 --> 01:01:48.191
with his story or whatever. But it puts it in the mind of not just,

01:01:48.592 --> 01:01:51.288
you know, the jury, but also of us, that like, hey, yeah, I guess you

01:01:51.304 --> 01:01:55.058
wouldn't really go against this guy if you wanted to have a fucking

01:01:55.074 --> 01:01:58.267
career. He's scary. Yeah, for sure, dude. He is really

01:01:58.444 --> 01:02:02.392
the most terrifying Um, and Dawson, uh, they make

01:02:02.892 --> 01:02:06.421
him the biggest possible hero. It's like, oh, all of my biggest weakness

01:02:06.921 --> 01:02:10.546
is sometimes I sneak food to guys that were intentionally starving to death.

01:02:10.738 --> 01:02:13.708
Yeah, exactly. Although they do give him the fault of like, he's the one that

01:02:14.208 --> 01:02:17.464
fired across the fence line when he claimed that his mirror— they call it the

01:02:17.964 --> 01:02:20.561
guy who's like the opposite, whatever, right? He says he did something, but nobody else

01:02:20.609 --> 01:02:23.868
saw anything, nobody else, whatever. And so there is an element of like, did Dawson

01:02:23.884 --> 01:02:27.479
just get a Nietzsche trigger finger? Is, you know, he's not perfect in that sense.

01:02:27.560 --> 01:02:31.280
Yeah. Plus he killed a guy. There's that.

01:02:31.780 --> 01:02:34.540
Let's not dispute that. He killed a guy. Yeah, he doesn't dispute it at all.

01:02:35.580 --> 01:02:38.400
Anyway, so Markinson has told them that there was another flight, but they get the

01:02:38.900 --> 01:02:41.600
flight log out of Guantanamo Bay, and of course it doesn't show such a flight.

01:02:42.100 --> 01:02:45.520
It shows only the 0600 that they told, you know, they claimed that the transfer

01:02:46.020 --> 01:02:48.920
order was put on. And he's like, we'll find it from Andrews. It should have

01:02:49.420 --> 01:02:53.140
landed at Andrews. Go find that flight log. And so Sam goes

01:02:53.640 --> 01:02:57.638
off to do that. Yep. Sam's doing the research there, and in the meantime,

01:02:57.734 --> 01:03:01.136
Markinson is supposed to testify, you know,

01:03:01.200 --> 01:03:05.035
the next day. Yeah. And Markinson, knowing that he's got

01:03:05.535 --> 01:03:08.822
to testify, he doesn't want to— doesn't want to do it. Does not— does not

01:03:09.322 --> 01:03:12.352
want to do it. And he ends up— we get this scene,

01:03:12.432 --> 01:03:15.882
and this stuck with me for sure when I first saw this movie, is it's

01:03:16.382 --> 01:03:20.102
a voiceover of the letter that Markinson is writing to Santiago's parents.

01:03:20.198 --> 01:03:24.130
Yes. Where he's not telling them what actually fucking happened. Nope, he's still being super

01:03:24.630 --> 01:03:28.320
cagey. Yep. And he— yeah, he's saying, I've, I've done the best I can

01:03:28.820 --> 01:03:32.348
do for— to help, or whatever. No, you haven't. No, you haven't. You, you could,

01:03:32.397 --> 01:03:35.029
you could go on the stand. Yeah. And make it right.

01:03:35.687 --> 01:03:38.865
Or at least, if only I had a pen and paper with me right now

01:03:38.913 --> 01:03:42.413
to write some shit. Oh my God. Fucking crazy.

01:03:42.525 --> 01:03:45.751
But that's a good point. The visual of this, this whole scene of him getting

01:03:45.799 --> 01:03:49.074
into his full uniform and then putting the gun in his mouth is just really,

01:03:49.347 --> 01:03:52.815
really powerful. Absolutely. And, uh, Uh, one of the, one of the things that

01:03:53.315 --> 01:03:56.653
sticks with you from this movie. So the star witness, kind of the only guy

01:03:56.798 --> 01:04:00.154
who could credibly tell them what actually happened, is fucking

01:04:00.251 --> 01:04:03.527
gone. Yeah. Yep. And so, so basically,

01:04:03.864 --> 01:04:06.899
uh, and then Downey is on the stand. I think it's kind of happening intercut

01:04:06.915 --> 01:04:09.887
with the Markinson thing, right? Is Downey is on the stand, um,

01:04:09.967 --> 01:04:12.713
and initially, you know, Joe is very much like, you know, or maybe it's right

01:04:13.213 --> 01:04:15.234
after, but it's like Joe is telling Kathy like, look, you need to ask the

01:04:15.283 --> 01:04:19.571
questions in the right order. And all I'm thinking to myself

01:04:20.071 --> 01:04:21.201
myself while I'm watching this is like, that's— you know they get to cross-examine him,

01:04:21.281 --> 01:04:23.957
right? You know you don't get to tell the prosecutor what to do, right?

01:04:24.101 --> 01:04:27.771
Your guy, your boy's gonna fuck up. The way he fucks up though is so

01:04:28.271 --> 01:04:31.793
much worse because he never told Joe or any of the lawyers that he

01:04:32.293 --> 01:04:35.702
was not in the room when Kendrick told Dawson to do the

01:04:36.202 --> 01:04:39.436
code red on Santiago. He only heard it from Dawson. Yeah. And Jack Ross figures

01:04:39.484 --> 01:04:42.897
it out because he was like, you know, at a post until a certain time,

01:04:42.929 --> 01:04:45.798
and then a Jeep broke down, so they had to Like hike back, and it

01:04:46.298 --> 01:04:48.667
was a long way. And he admits that he got there, you know, whatever twenty-five

01:04:48.684 --> 01:04:52.354
minutes after when he claims originally that he was in the room,

01:04:52.948 --> 01:04:55.801
you know, for that. So so this is all fucking crazy.

01:04:56.298 --> 01:04:59.263
And they're back at Kathy's apartment. Joe and Sam waiting for Kathy to show up

01:04:59.763 --> 01:05:02.005
in there, and they're all they're freaking out about is how Downey fucked up the

01:05:02.505 --> 01:05:05.868
timeline. Yeah. And now it's clear that Dawson gave the order to Downey,

01:05:05.996 --> 01:05:09.667
right? So right. That's not good for them. Oh man! Downey on

01:05:09.699 --> 01:05:13.210
the stands kind of kind of panicking when he's

01:05:13.226 --> 01:05:17.154
being asked the question, and he's just like, "How?" Oh dude,

01:05:17.476 --> 01:05:20.735
you feel so much for the guy. I mean, you do feel so much

01:05:21.008 --> 01:05:24.636
for this guy who's just like a simple dude who's very young and doesn't have

01:05:25.136 --> 01:05:27.960
a lot of experience in the world. And like, this is everything for him.

01:05:28.088 --> 01:05:31.364
It's fucking crazy. Simple like Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder. Oh yeah,

01:05:31.412 --> 01:05:35.041
yeah, simple, simple. Yeah, yeah, this guy is not bright. Good, uh, good pumpkin

01:05:35.541 --> 01:05:38.910
pie haircut. Absolutely. Um, yeah, so I

01:05:39.410 --> 01:05:43.406
was given an order and I followed it. Yeah, exactly. Uh, so now we've got

01:05:43.906 --> 01:05:47.143
Caffey. Uh, Tom Cruise We love a Tom Cruise drunk scene.

01:05:47.240 --> 01:05:50.686
Sure. Tom Cruise drunk in a movie. Very necessary, right?

01:05:50.782 --> 01:05:53.684
Cocktail. Yeah, yeah. Risky business all over the place.

01:05:54.213 --> 01:05:58.124
Um, and, and he's hammered in the rain. He's just wonderfully

01:05:58.140 --> 01:06:01.330
funny as a, as a really drunk guy and is explaining to them,

01:06:01.827 --> 01:06:05.610
you know, hey, well, uh, Markinson's dead. Yeah. So whatever.

01:06:05.690 --> 01:06:08.944
And, you know, he got in his full dress uniform, put a pistol in his

01:06:09.057 --> 01:06:12.423
mouth. He's done. So we seem to be out of witnesses, right?

01:06:12.728 --> 01:06:15.837
Uh, Jessup is like the Hail Mary that they have. That's all they have left.

01:06:15.950 --> 01:06:19.141
I mean, in their minds. Like, that was the next thing they were gonna do,

01:06:19.157 --> 01:06:22.943
but now it's like, without Markinson, like, how can we do that? And this

01:06:23.443 --> 01:06:25.975
is when Jo kind of, kind of, uh, picks, or, you know,

01:06:26.681 --> 01:06:29.921
points out to him, like, why did you ask Jessup for the transfer order?

01:06:30.050 --> 01:06:33.435
You weren't just— you didn't just want it. You wanted to see him when

01:06:33.935 --> 01:06:37.413
he reacted because you knew there was something wrong. So it's like, let's just fucking

01:06:37.509 --> 01:06:40.637
get him. And he's like, are you fucking kidding? Um, but he, like,

01:06:40.653 --> 01:06:43.669
blows up at her, screams all kinds of fucking nasty shit.

01:06:45.307 --> 01:06:48.661
And she quite rightfully leaves. Yeah. Uh, leaving Sam and Kathy

01:06:49.161 --> 01:06:52.530
alone for a little while. To share, uh, this bottle

01:06:53.030 --> 01:06:57.072
of Jack Daniel's that Kathy's been drinking directly from all day. So it's like 90%

01:06:57.105 --> 01:07:00.347
backwash, and Sam takes a swig of it. What a good friend here.

01:07:00.556 --> 01:07:04.007
When Kathy goes, you want a drink? And Sam goes, sure, why not?

01:07:04.071 --> 01:07:06.960
I'm like, I got about 5 reasons why not, pal. You want 'em, I'll give

01:07:07.460 --> 01:07:10.877
'em to you, but don't fucking drink that today. Um, and they're kind of reminiscing

01:07:10.973 --> 01:07:14.811
about, about, uh, about, uh, Kathy's dad. Yeah, right. And Sam is,

01:07:14.987 --> 01:07:18.311
is saying like, you know, your dad's the best lawyer that, that I ever knew,

01:07:18.857 --> 01:07:21.843
but if I needed one lawyer to be on this case, it would be— it's

01:07:22.343 --> 01:07:25.103
like, I mean, nice thing to say, but— But bullshit.

01:07:25.183 --> 01:07:28.956
Complete bullshit. Like, you know, it's like, hey, you know, Ken Griffey—

01:07:29.037 --> 01:07:32.168
I mean, it's reversed, but hey, Ken Griffey Sr., your son might have been the

01:07:32.668 --> 01:07:34.544
greatest ballplayer of all time, but I'd rather have you up in the bottom of

01:07:35.044 --> 01:07:39.370
the 9th. No, I wouldn't. Give me Junior every time. Like, come on. Come on.

01:07:39.870 --> 01:07:43.270
Oh man. So, so it finally ends with, I'm gonna put Jess up on the

01:07:43.770 --> 01:07:47.070
stand. Yeah, yeah. You get like a very declarative moment there. But then he decides,

01:07:47.370 --> 01:07:50.410
as we see that this is not a fifth of Jack, this is like a

01:07:50.910 --> 01:07:53.650
375 milliliter bottle, right? This is like a smaller bottle, but he has drunk— It's

01:07:54.150 --> 01:07:57.850
mostly gone. 80% of his minimum, 90% of it, right? So he is fucking

01:07:58.350 --> 01:08:01.730
blotto. Yeah. And drives after Joe, right? He's in his

01:08:02.230 --> 01:08:05.310
car driving through the rain. Joe, Joe, I'm gonna put Jess up on

01:08:05.810 --> 01:08:07.330
the stand! Hey Joe! It's like, get the fuck out of the car, you drunk

01:08:07.830 --> 01:08:11.250
asshole. And then the next day he's just like,

01:08:11.750 --> 01:08:15.470
oh, I'm fine. Fresh as a fucking daisy. That's incredible. How many

01:08:15.970 --> 01:08:18.150
people do you think he shouted, hey Joe, I'm gonna put Jess up on the

01:08:18.650 --> 01:08:22.030
stand, before he got to her? Sorry, wrong Joe. Sorry, ma'am, I didn't see

01:08:22.530 --> 01:08:25.890
the stroller. I apologize. Are people really walking their baby in the rain?

01:08:26.390 --> 01:08:29.770
Come on. And they— there's like a case of beer

01:08:30.270 --> 01:08:33.970
in that carriage instead of a baby. This is my pram with my

01:08:34.470 --> 01:08:38.280
booze. Okay, anyway, and, uh, and Caffey has,

01:08:38.780 --> 01:08:41.420
uh, you know, they're kind of brainstorming here to figure out how to do it.

01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.480
He does a funny impression of Nicholson. No, he doesn't. For, for that's fucking

01:08:45.980 --> 01:08:49.340
terrible. Like, if we're saying that anything from So I Married an Axe Murderer was

01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:53.600
funny, then this was way fucking better. Um, oh man, and,

01:08:54.100 --> 01:08:57.060
uh, that really hurt. He has this, like, he has this baseball bat that he

01:08:57.560 --> 01:09:00.040
carries around that's like his thinking bat, right? It's thinking bat. Yeah, you know what

01:09:00.540 --> 01:09:02.680
I'm thinking about? That's not bad. I need to think. I wish, dude, we should

01:09:03.180 --> 01:09:04.820
do all thinking bats. We should just have— I've got a thinking bat at home.

01:09:05.320 --> 01:09:08.900
Okay, it's a It's not a wood bat because I'm you know I've

01:09:09.400 --> 01:09:12.200
never played. I have one by the bed, but I don't think with it.

01:09:12.700 --> 01:09:15.880
It's usually just yeah in case somebody tries to come get me in the night.

01:09:15.900 --> 01:09:19.010
How often how often does that come into into use for that purpose?

01:09:19.160 --> 01:09:22.500
Not yet. Not yet. Thank God. Sure God. Glad. But maybe

01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:26.360
I'll start thinking with it. There you go. But he goes into

01:09:26.860 --> 01:09:29.980
his closet, right? That's the key here. Yeah. Yeah. And he discovers he's like wait

01:09:30.480 --> 01:09:34.109
a second. Yeah. Why? Yeah. Why was his closet Closet looking like that.

01:09:34.157 --> 01:09:37.290
Why was nothing packed? Very good point. He is a smart guy. Maybe you

01:09:37.790 --> 01:09:39.732
do want him instead of his dad. I don't know. Uh, so they call,

01:09:40.085 --> 01:09:44.198
uh, the defense calls Jessup to the stand. Yes, right. And, uh, the— this

01:09:44.698 --> 01:09:47.765
is just so great, the buildup of it, the way that, that he sets this

01:09:47.813 --> 01:09:51.219
whole thing up. And again, I mean, he probably didn't have

01:09:51.267 --> 01:09:54.866
the entire thing planned out from the beginning, but definitely he

01:09:55.366 --> 01:09:58.866
had the foundation figured out. Like, the beginning of what he starts talking about,

01:09:58.882 --> 01:10:02.770
he just lays it out so So he's asking Jessup, you know, you said that

01:10:03.270 --> 01:10:06.418
Santiago was being transferred because he was in danger. Yeah. Yeah, he was in danger.

01:10:06.675 --> 01:10:10.146
Grave danger? Is there any other kind? Right? And this, like,

01:10:10.162 --> 01:10:13.423
snappy back and forth between the two. And there's— he fucking hates

01:10:13.923 --> 01:10:17.778
him so much. Jessup cannot stand this guy. And, uh, and he

01:10:18.278 --> 01:10:21.554
finally gets to, well, why wasn't he packed? Yeah. You know, he didn't call home.

01:10:21.859 --> 01:10:25.057
Jessup, you came here for 2 days, you made 5 phone calls,

01:10:25.073 --> 01:10:27.515
you brought all this shit. And you knew you were gonna be back in 2

01:10:28.015 --> 01:10:31.596
days. Santiago was gonna leave forever, and he didn't even tell one person that he

01:10:31.741 --> 01:10:34.971
was leaving. He wrote 14 letters in 9 months, but didn't make a

01:10:35.471 --> 01:10:38.666
single phone call home to ask somebody, asking a friend to pick him up at

01:10:39.166 --> 01:10:41.800
the airport, telling his parents he's coming, nothing at all. And he's like, like,

01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:44.339
oh, I didn't know the man that well. It's like, you know, he doesn't really

01:10:44.355 --> 01:10:47.713
have— Maybe he was an early riser and wanted to pack in the morning.

01:10:47.986 --> 01:10:51.360
Like, oh, the hate is so great here. Yeah.

01:10:52.170 --> 01:10:55.490
So we should mention real quick though, Danny sent

01:10:55.990 --> 01:10:59.210
Sam to Andrew's AFB. He didn't say why at the time, but basically like they're

01:10:59.710 --> 01:11:02.810
waiting. Joe and Danny are waiting for Sam to show up. Where's Sam?

01:11:03.310 --> 01:11:04.820
Where's Sam? He'll be here. He'll be here. The whole thing. And he does.

01:11:04.910 --> 01:11:08.330
Just before he starts questioning Jessup, Sam shows up with 2

01:11:08.830 --> 01:11:12.230
men who are Air Force guys. And we know that because their fancy suits are

01:11:12.730 --> 01:11:15.870
blue, not tan or black or white or anything else. They're blue. So they're Air

01:11:16.370 --> 01:11:19.330
Force. So a couple of guys just sitting in the gallery there. But it's important

01:11:19.830 --> 01:11:22.080
for Danny that he knows they're there, right? Yeah, yeah.

01:11:22.721 --> 01:11:26.891
Um, and yeah, so, uh, Jessup, I can't speak on the travel habits

01:11:27.391 --> 01:11:31.044
of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, any real— and very arrogantly again,

01:11:31.237 --> 01:11:35.086
like, this whole time, I don't have time for this, like, I'm very important,

01:11:35.166 --> 01:11:38.277
why are you wasting my time? And kind of looking around like, okay, see,

01:11:38.309 --> 01:11:42.302
I'm doing the thing, I'm answering the questions, can I go now? If— unless

01:11:42.802 --> 01:11:45.638
you have any real questions, I'm, I'm gonna get out of here. So he excuses

01:11:45.734 --> 01:11:49.000
himself. Yeah. Right. And then we get Caffey's very pissed

01:11:49.500 --> 01:11:52.360
about that. Well, and I love it too, Dan. Caffey, he goes back to the

01:11:52.860 --> 01:11:55.140
defense table and picks up like a glass of water to like drink. He's got

01:11:55.640 --> 01:11:59.120
his back turned to Jessup, and he is shaking so violently,

01:11:59.360 --> 01:12:01.580
sipping that water like, you know, because he's about to— He's like, this is so

01:12:02.080 --> 01:12:05.460
scary. He's so good. He's got— at some point in this process, he has to

01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:09.160
commit to, am I going to accuse this man of doing this or not?

01:12:09.660 --> 01:12:11.900
Yeah. Because if I'm not, I gotta let him leave and this is over.

01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:14.260
If I'm gonna do it, I gotta do it now, and I better fucking get

01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:17.031
him. Yeah. Or not. And it's like, you know, this is a thing that I

01:12:17.304 --> 01:12:20.211
vacillate back and forth a little bit on this whole segment where— or this whole

01:12:20.711 --> 01:12:24.048
sequence where, um, it feels a little convenient that Jessup,

01:12:24.514 --> 01:12:28.031
who is in line to be the director of the National Security Council or something,

01:12:28.063 --> 01:12:31.403
right, like a very high-level position, is so easily

01:12:31.499 --> 01:12:34.952
rattled. Yeah. But to the credit of the script and the

01:12:35.452 --> 01:12:38.115
movie and Nicholson's portrayal, we are shown over and over and over again that he

01:12:38.163 --> 01:12:41.792
has nothing but contempt for the people around him, of being questioned,

01:12:41.808 --> 01:12:45.612
of having any of his motives or methods at all brought into any kind

01:12:46.112 --> 01:12:49.058
of scrutiny, he does not have any fucking stomach for that. Nobody should be questioning

01:12:49.331 --> 01:12:53.354
anything he's done or is doing. Well, and Caffey like started the process

01:12:53.854 --> 01:12:56.929
of getting under his skin way back when he asked for the, uh, the transfer

01:12:57.009 --> 01:13:01.129
order. So like, he, he might not be rattled in a normal situation,

01:13:01.193 --> 01:13:04.672
but Caffey has been like slowly wearing him down and,

01:13:04.784 --> 01:13:07.894
uh, yeah, setting him up for that. And he's just pissed that this is even

01:13:07.926 --> 01:13:10.907
happening. Yeah, 100%. He's like, this is— I, you know, well, as we'll see.

01:13:11.052 --> 01:13:13.761
Yeah, but, and maybe this is, maybe this is where Sam is right. It is

01:13:14.261 --> 01:13:17.544
better to have Danny Caffey and not Lionel Caffey being because Lionel

01:13:18.044 --> 01:13:21.199
Caffey, Jessup would've had more respect for. Yeah, probably.

01:13:21.375 --> 01:13:24.469
And there wouldn't probably have been as much of a triggering kind of thing,

01:13:24.661 --> 01:13:28.444
you know? Whereas with Danny Caffey, the young Harvard punk, right, who's never

01:13:28.944 --> 01:13:32.500
served for real kind of thing, questioning me, oh, fuck him.

01:13:32.612 --> 01:13:36.122
And I think that it does kind of make it more realistic that he gets

01:13:36.622 --> 01:13:40.290
pushed to this level. But this is basically the famous exchange,

01:13:40.370 --> 01:13:44.057
right? Yeah. Starting from, you know, did you order the code red? And like,

01:13:44.153 --> 01:13:46.140
or I mean, there's— I don't even know where it starts, but it's like he

01:13:46.156 --> 01:13:48.447
really goes on and on. They go back and forth a ton.

01:13:49.024 --> 01:13:52.181
And, you know, before like Jessup gives him the whole like, you know,

01:13:52.469 --> 01:13:55.850
you can't handle the truth, right? I mean, that's the whole deal. Um, you know,

01:13:55.866 --> 01:13:58.718
we're not— I'm not gonna like relay the whole thing. Are your orders always followed?

01:13:58.814 --> 01:14:01.987
Like, you ordered this guy not to be touched, so clearly,

01:14:02.179 --> 01:14:06.041
like, you know, he was touched. So what, what is it? Either your

01:14:06.169 --> 01:14:09.486
orders are always followed or you didn't order this guy not to be touched.

01:14:09.630 --> 01:14:13.302
Exactly. Yeah, and then his speech about, you know, the freedom that

01:14:13.802 --> 01:14:16.893
I provide and all this stuff. Blanket. He really does

01:14:16.989 --> 01:14:20.196
feel like he is personally in charge of the reason that like we're

01:14:20.696 --> 01:14:23.178
able to go to Taco Bell or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it's like he would

01:14:23.678 --> 01:14:26.593
have— so they talked about him, you know, being in Vietnam,

01:14:26.706 --> 01:14:29.944
right? Because him and Markinson, right? They did, they toured together in 'Nam.

01:14:29.992 --> 01:14:32.429
And so I'm thinking back, I don't know how old the character would have been

01:14:33.504 --> 01:14:37.143
for the Cuban Missile Crisis, probably a child, I guess, when Kennedy dealt

01:14:37.191 --> 01:14:41.025
with that thing. But it's like, you know, Cuba has wrecked— has represented

01:14:41.121 --> 01:14:44.957
for many Americans for decades and decades, like the closest

01:14:45.454 --> 01:14:48.102
enemy, right? Like especially during the Cold War, it was like, well, that was the

01:14:48.602 --> 01:14:51.488
closest the communists got to us. So there is an element of like, you know,

01:14:51.632 --> 01:14:55.500
what happens in Cuba or to Cuba really

01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:58.597
affects all of the United States. And it's never been true. That's never actually been

01:14:58.789 --> 01:15:02.528
reality. But that's been the like supposition and the position of Americans

01:15:02.625 --> 01:15:06.075
a lot. There has to be a fear to justify all the spending and all

01:15:06.575 --> 01:15:09.284
the, you know, the prioritization of that kind of shit over like, you know,

01:15:09.364 --> 01:15:13.234
what we need. Um, so, so yeah, we finally get the,

01:15:13.475 --> 01:15:17.137
did you order the code red? And, you know, are you gonna answer this question?

01:15:17.410 --> 01:15:21.537
And we get a, you're goddamn right I did. Very satisfying

01:15:22.037 --> 01:15:25.503
to hear that. There are 2 acting— face acting moments in this scene that

01:15:26.003 --> 01:15:29.984
I really love. One is Nicholson's and one is Bacon's. When Nicholson is first questioned

01:15:30.016 --> 01:15:32.392
about, uh, the why the conflicting orders,

01:15:33.051 --> 01:15:36.182
he does this great thing where he kind of purses his lips,

01:15:36.198 --> 01:15:40.330
looks side to side. Yeah, there's a contempt, but there's also a,

01:15:40.830 --> 01:15:42.230
oh, fuck, I fucked up. What did I fuck up? How do I do this?

01:15:42.730 --> 01:15:45.490
And there's this— you can see him thinking, which I feel like not— there are

01:15:45.990 --> 01:15:49.270
a lot of actors, you never get that. But Nicholson gives you, holy shit,

01:15:49.770 --> 01:15:53.190
I can see his little wheels turning. It's so excellent. It's really wonderful. And the

01:15:53.690 --> 01:15:56.890
other one is Bacon's. When Jessup finally screams, you're goddamn right I did,

01:15:57.390 --> 01:16:00.430
the way Kevin Bacon— the way his eyes drop, and he just realizes, I gotta

01:16:00.930 --> 01:16:04.490
fucking arrest this guy. He just admitted to a fucking crime and being responsible for

01:16:04.990 --> 01:16:09.134
killing this kid. Right. And even more, even more than him losing

01:16:09.166 --> 01:16:12.602
the case, or it was the idea of like, the next thing that I

01:16:12.618 --> 01:16:16.006
have to do, because he was already telling, uh, Caffey,

01:16:16.632 --> 01:16:20.647
if you accuse some, you know, of a crime, you're fucking done. So even

01:16:21.147 --> 01:16:23.424
though I'm in the right to do this, just to slap the cuffs on this

01:16:23.537 --> 01:16:26.491
guy is gonna— I'm, I'm scared to have to do that.

01:16:26.636 --> 01:16:30.152
Yeah, you know, like, absolutely. Someone who's untouchable has to be touched, and it's my

01:16:30.184 --> 01:16:33.457
job. Yep. Um, so yeah, it ends

01:16:33.489 --> 01:16:36.377
with this big kind of chaos in the court, and, uh,

01:16:36.939 --> 01:16:40.388
Jessup is arrested and having an incredible meltdown because he feels like after

01:16:40.888 --> 01:16:43.212
he— after this, he's like, all right, can I fucking go now? Yeah, I ordered

01:16:43.712 --> 01:16:46.100
that anyway. Back to Cuba. Going back to my base. Yeah, like, I got shit

01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:50.015
to do. And this is when he's placing MPs— restrain the colonel.

01:16:50.640 --> 01:16:53.721
Uh, so yeah, and, and he's flipping out and he's like, you know,

01:16:53.849 --> 01:16:57.560
all you did was weaken a nation with this. And when

01:16:58.060 --> 01:17:01.440
he lunges at him. Yes, I love it. You fucked with the wrong Marine.

01:17:01.580 --> 01:17:03.730
So cheesy, but I love it.

01:17:05.060 --> 01:17:08.160
And, uh, and Caffey gives the, uh, I'm an officer in

01:17:08.660 --> 01:17:12.399
the US Navy and you're under arrest, you son of a bitch.

01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:16.120
Yeah, the writing kind of doesn't— it's a little

01:17:16.620 --> 01:17:20.080
cheesy. The dialogue cheeses out a little. You know what though, that, that last scene,

01:17:20.580 --> 01:17:23.660
it was so intense. Like, it's so— it really draws you in. I think that's

01:17:24.160 --> 01:17:27.575
why I like this movie so much, because they It's just so intense.

01:17:27.784 --> 01:17:30.578
Even seeing it so many times. Yeah, and they're so good.

01:17:30.755 --> 01:17:34.513
Yeah. And one of my favorite parts is also when Jack Nicholson

01:17:34.610 --> 01:17:38.159
goes to get up and then he has to sit back down.

01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:41.500
And the judge is like, he says something like, what kind of,

01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.804
what are you running here or whatever to the judge? And he's like,

01:17:46.447 --> 01:17:49.723
something like, I'm certain our way— Basically

01:17:49.787 --> 01:17:54.044
like Jessup says, like, you know, you'll address to Caffey, you'll address me as Colonel

01:17:54.140 --> 01:17:57.370
or Sir. I'm pretty sure I've earned it. And he's like, what kind of clown

01:17:57.870 --> 01:18:00.010
show you running? Or something like that. What kind of monkey show you running here?

01:18:00.510 --> 01:18:03.950
And he goes, well, you'll refer to me as Your Honor or Judge. I'm certain

01:18:04.450 --> 01:18:07.330
that I've earned it. I'm certain I've earned it. Yeah. I love that part,

01:18:07.830 --> 01:18:10.990
'cause it's just like putting him in his place a little bit. Absolutely. I do

01:18:11.490 --> 01:18:14.770
feel like I'm on Jessup's side in that case. I think his

01:18:15.270 --> 01:18:19.210
position is more earned than the title judge, which is sometimes your appointed thing.

01:18:19.710 --> 01:18:22.210
Well, he's in the judge's house, though. Sure. Come on. And the judge himself is

01:18:22.710 --> 01:18:24.510
a colonel as well. So it's not like he's some low-ranking official.

01:18:26.070 --> 01:18:29.785
I generally hate judges being like, oh, I'll hold you in contempt.

01:18:29.834 --> 01:18:33.195
You didn't respect my powdered wig enough. Like, go fuck yourself.

01:18:33.580 --> 01:18:36.917
Respect my authority! Yeah, you're just a lawyer with a friend

01:18:37.417 --> 01:18:40.368
who's a mayor. With a robe. So,

01:18:40.663 --> 01:18:44.321
uh, so Jessup is arrested, and now we're wrapping

01:18:44.354 --> 01:18:47.208
things up and we get the verdict. Yeah. And, um,

01:18:47.401 --> 01:18:50.737
basically there were 3 things that they were on trial for,

01:18:51.172 --> 01:18:54.765
uh, murder, Yep. Conspiracy to commit murder, and then conduct

01:18:54.829 --> 01:18:59.127
unbecoming a Marine. So murder, conspiracy to commit murder, not guilty,

01:18:59.223 --> 01:19:02.527
right? Conduct unbecoming a Marine, guilty. But the,

01:19:03.312 --> 01:19:07.193
the sentence for that is time served, plus they're both going to be dishonorably discharged.

01:19:07.899 --> 01:19:11.347
So, uh, yeah, wow, I fucking killed a guy, now I

01:19:11.847 --> 01:19:15.036
got fired from my job. Like, I don't give a fuck. No, you killed a

01:19:15.536 --> 01:19:19.497
guy. It's absolutely appropriate. Well, you killed the wrong

01:19:19.593 --> 01:19:23.238
kind of guy is the problem. No, it— because really,

01:19:23.527 --> 01:19:25.967
as I think about it, their job is definitely not killing people in their sleep,

01:19:26.256 --> 01:19:29.612
which is essentially what— well, yeah, they're not supposed to do that. There are rules

01:19:29.644 --> 01:19:33.353
of engagement. They're not supposed to do that. I'm not

01:19:33.853 --> 01:19:37.496
saying it doesn't affect the scoreboard, but yeah,

01:19:37.592 --> 01:19:41.173
I mean, it's, uh, it's incredibly distressing.

01:19:41.285 --> 01:19:44.014
Yes. To these 2 guys because they're kind of like Wait, like, uh,

01:19:44.175 --> 01:19:47.994
and especially Downey. Downey does not get it. Yeah. How? How? No, we did everything

01:19:48.026 --> 01:19:51.091
right. We did what we're supposed to do. We followed orders. What's happening here?

01:19:51.861 --> 01:19:55.151
And, uh, and Hal like gives kind of the final

01:19:55.167 --> 01:19:59.082
speech of the movie. Very cheesy again. Super cheesy. So play-like.

01:19:59.403 --> 01:20:02.917
Yes. Right? Yes. This is all— this must— this play-like part. This scene

01:20:02.933 --> 01:20:06.399
for sure came straight out of the play in a way that like I feel

01:20:06.899 --> 01:20:09.560
like the Joe and Kathy at the seafood restaurant maybe isn't in it at all.

01:20:09.769 --> 01:20:13.560
Or if it is, it's very different. This felt like everything from Jessup arriving

01:20:14.060 --> 01:20:16.460
at the courthouse to the end. I'm— I would look back on it, but I

01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:20.500
haven't. But I still feel guaranteed, like, that is verbatim just the third act of

01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:24.500
the play. It has to be. And, you know, Hal's final line is,

01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:28.420
uh, like, we're in trouble because we were supposed to fight for people who can't

01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:32.440
fight for themselves. We're supposed to fight for people like Willie. That motherfucker's

01:20:32.940 --> 01:20:35.500
still a Marine. And then at the end they say, and scene.

01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:39.360
Like, this movie should have ended with the entire cast holding hands

01:20:39.860 --> 01:20:40.800
and bowing in that courtroom. That's called a curtain call. And yes, that was a

01:20:41.300 --> 01:20:44.980
curtain call. That would have been very apropos. I agree. We should have had

01:20:45.480 --> 01:20:48.800
a curtain call. Oh. Yeah, that is A Few Good Men. That is A

01:20:49.300 --> 01:20:52.780
Few Good Men. All right. Oh, man. Well, this was

01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:56.980
my pick. Actually, why don't we let our guest give her final

01:20:57.480 --> 01:21:00.600
thoughts, and then I'll go in. Jeanie, A Few Good Men, you can rate

01:21:01.100 --> 01:21:04.320
it on a 0 to 5. All right, let's hear it. And yeah, give us

01:21:04.820 --> 01:21:07.260
some final thoughts on this movie. Why did you pressure me to bring it this

01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:10.160
week? I'll just throw it out real quick, though. I can't add your score in

01:21:10.660 --> 01:21:11.720
because it screws up all the shit I do on the website. I was going

01:21:12.220 --> 01:21:12.620
to say, I can't add it, don't. So officially, the score will be ours,

01:21:13.120 --> 01:21:15.495
but you don't have to give a score. If you want to, please feel free,

01:21:15.639 --> 01:21:18.977
but you don't have to. Okay, well, this— I just,

01:21:19.089 --> 01:21:23.020
again, I've just loved this movie. I've seen it like at least 10 times

01:21:23.036 --> 01:21:26.374
all the way through, if not more. Um, I love

01:21:26.470 --> 01:21:29.856
a young Tom Cruise. I think he's excellent in this. I,

01:21:30.353 --> 01:21:33.755
I just— I— it's just a fun watch. Um,

01:21:34.413 --> 01:21:37.927
yeah, I'll, I'll watch it again. Yes, we will. Um,

01:21:38.505 --> 01:21:41.537
yeah, I don't, I don't know what else to say about the movie other than

01:21:44.450 --> 01:21:48.300
Yeah, it's, it's excellent. And I think if I were, if my score

01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:52.760
were to count, uh, I think I'd give it a 3.5.

01:21:53.260 --> 01:21:56.580
Oh, okay. 3.5. Or 3.5. I was gonna say that. Well, I'll just tell you,

01:21:57.080 --> 01:21:59.360
like, in our, in our scale, that's fairly on the low side. Nic and I

01:21:59.860 --> 01:22:02.620
are among the most generous point givers, I think, in podcast history. I know,

01:22:03.120 --> 01:22:05.460
we really do. Really. And I'm gonna explain one of the points. I was thinking

01:22:05.960 --> 01:22:09.214
it might be a 4, but then it is Really cheesy. Yeah.

01:22:09.839 --> 01:22:13.365
And some of— I like the music, I like the score,

01:22:13.381 --> 01:22:17.036
but a couple of the parts are a little like when he's chasing

01:22:17.212 --> 01:22:20.370
Joe and he finally reveals, I'm gonna put him on the stand, and it's

01:22:20.870 --> 01:22:24.121
like, oh, like, I don't know. Yeah. So there's a

01:22:24.621 --> 01:22:27.648
few things like that that I, you know. So I'm gonna stand— I'm gonna stick

01:22:28.148 --> 01:22:31.190
with it. Okay, that works. All right, thank you for having me.

01:22:31.254 --> 01:22:34.508
And of course, thank you for watching that movie. Yeah, thanks for joining us.

01:22:34.685 --> 01:22:38.514
This was fun. fun. Um, yeah, so I think this was,

01:22:38.771 --> 01:22:42.777
this was super fun. I love talking about this. Uh, loaded cast.

01:22:42.857 --> 01:22:46.286
Yes. Just perfect. Like, the script is just so wonderful.

01:22:46.863 --> 01:22:50.260
And, uh, and with a play, I mean, you do have to have these lines

01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:53.336
that really hammer things home. Like, you're not counting on being able to show these

01:22:53.368 --> 01:22:57.294
visuals, so you have to be able to really, like, deliver the moral message

01:22:57.794 --> 01:23:00.178
at the end and all this stuff. And it does make it kind of cheesy,

01:23:00.258 --> 01:23:03.996
but I think overall this held up The back and forth during

01:23:04.028 --> 01:23:07.257
the trial scenes was really like the boxing match. You know,

01:23:07.321 --> 01:23:11.080
we're just like, the momentum is constantly shifting, and we don't know how it's gonna

01:23:11.580 --> 01:23:15.112
go. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the best Tom Cruise performances out

01:23:15.612 --> 01:23:18.903
there. Yeah. And, uh, Nicholson, just unbelievable the way that it

01:23:18.951 --> 01:23:22.582
seems like he's— he was on the screen for 80% of

01:23:23.082 --> 01:23:24.991
the movie when you go to think back about it, just 'cause he was so

01:23:25.491 --> 01:23:29.040
impactful. Um, super fun. I think it could have been, I don't know, 10,

01:23:29.248 --> 01:23:33.068
15 minutes shorter. But overall, I love this. This is

01:23:33.100 --> 01:23:36.550
definitely one worth watching and rewatching. This is a 4 out of 5 for me.

01:23:36.775 --> 01:23:40.321
Nice. Very cool. Funny enough, I actually like this movie, or I'm going to

01:23:40.821 --> 01:23:42.359
rate it at least higher than either one of you, which I find a little

01:23:42.391 --> 01:23:45.970
surprising. But yeah, no, I love, love, love this movie. Aaron Sorkin is one of

01:23:46.470 --> 01:23:49.131
my favorite screenwriters because I just, I am a sucker for like dialogue and character

01:23:49.631 --> 01:23:53.223
work. And it's great here. I do think this is, if not Tom Cruise's best

01:23:53.723 --> 01:23:56.753
performance, which might be Eyes Wide Shut, this is very close. Like, this is right

01:23:57.253 --> 01:24:00.540
in there. And I think with Nicholson, I think this is

01:24:01.040 --> 01:24:04.280
the most efficient talent that Nicholson has ever shown on screen. Like,

01:24:04.780 --> 01:24:07.960
this is like his best performance per minute of screen time, right? He's done

01:24:08.460 --> 01:24:09.780
other ones. You know, you got to do One Flew, and you got to do

01:24:10.280 --> 01:24:12.320
The Shining, you got to do, you know, Chinatown, whatever. He's done great, great,

01:24:12.820 --> 01:24:15.180
great stuff. But in all those movies, he's in like 80% of the movie.

01:24:15.680 --> 01:24:19.060
And here he's on screen for like 20 or 25 minutes, right? But he is

01:24:19.560 --> 01:24:23.360
so impactful. The whole sequence— the thing that I realized, like, there's a cheesiness

01:24:23.860 --> 01:24:25.980
to some of the ending. I mean, you guys are dead right about the final

01:24:26.096 --> 01:24:29.259
sort of Hal Dawson's final speech is not great.

01:24:29.644 --> 01:24:33.128
But, you know, the whole, uh, uh, uh, you, you want the truth, I think

01:24:33.628 --> 01:24:36.805
I'm entitled, you can't handle the truth, all this shit, right? It, it sounds cheesy

01:24:37.305 --> 01:24:40.433
now because it's become a cliché because of this, right? But it's so intense and

01:24:40.481 --> 01:24:42.970
so good. So impactful and intense. Yeah, when it happened.

01:24:43.435 --> 01:24:46.020
Um, so I, yeah, I love this movie. I think the cast is fantastic,

01:24:46.084 --> 01:24:49.841
the writing's fantastic, the directing's fantastic. Uh, I didn't really notice

01:24:49.954 --> 01:24:53.890
the score, which I'm actually like okay with when a composer just underlines

01:24:54.390 --> 01:24:56.430
a movie with his music, and I don't really notice it that much. That's actually

01:24:56.930 --> 01:24:59.690
kind of a good thing in some times, sometimes anyway. I'm a 4.5 out of

01:25:00.190 --> 01:25:02.110
5. I think this is not quite, you know, where I'd be doing like a

01:25:02.610 --> 01:25:05.210
perfect 5 out of 5, but it is close. And I think this is just

01:25:05.710 --> 01:25:09.590
a really spectacular movie. And thank you, Jeanie and Nic, both of you,

01:25:10.090 --> 01:25:11.530
for making me watch this this week because it was a hell of a lot

01:25:12.030 --> 01:25:15.310
of fun. Yeah, love it. All right, Steve, well, that's A Few Good

01:25:15.810 --> 01:25:18.110
Men, and you're, you're on deck next week. What do we have coming up?

01:25:18.610 --> 01:25:21.850
I think we're going to go to another Another film that is

01:25:22.350 --> 01:25:25.950
just stocked, just chock-full of fantastic actors top to bottom. There are people

01:25:26.450 --> 01:25:29.710
in this movie that you know, like you're going to recognize everybody from from from

01:25:30.210 --> 01:25:33.410
the main characters down to Steve Dave and the comic book guys. No, you're not.

01:25:33.910 --> 01:25:37.410
You won't recognize them. The writing's fantastic. It's not Aaron Sorkin fantastic, but it is

01:25:37.910 --> 01:25:41.490
fantastic. We're going to see our second Kevin Smith film of the podcast because we're

01:25:41.990 --> 01:25:45.050
going to go and watch 1990. I think I'll get this wrong. I think it's

01:25:45.550 --> 01:25:48.785
five, either 1995 or 96. Mallrats. We're gonna go watch Mallrats.

01:25:48.833 --> 01:25:52.654
Okay. Mallrats is my sort of quintessential

01:25:52.767 --> 01:25:55.978
Kevin Smith film. Ooh, okay. I'm not saying it's the best. Yeah. It's not even

01:25:56.478 --> 01:25:59.334
necessarily my favorite, but it's the one that I'm like, if you'd never in your

01:25:59.446 --> 01:26:02.561
life heard of Kevin Smith or seen any one of his movies, this is the

01:26:03.061 --> 01:26:05.708
one I would show you first. Okay. It's Mallrats. Yeah, yeah. Ben Affleck,

01:26:05.805 --> 01:26:09.048
Jason Lee, obviously Jay Mewes and Kevin Smith themselves, Joey Lauren

01:26:09.225 --> 01:26:11.906
Adams. Uh, we see, uh, we've seen her before.

01:26:13.050 --> 01:26:16.240
Um, crap, I can't remember the actress's name. Uh, she was— she played

01:26:16.740 --> 01:26:19.860
Jade in The Rock. Um, oh yeah, there's a

01:26:20.360 --> 01:26:22.440
whole bunch of people in this that like— oh, Jeremy London, or maybe it's Jason

01:26:22.940 --> 01:26:25.240
London. I can never remember. It's one of the Londons, the one that wasn't in

01:26:25.740 --> 01:26:28.880
Dazed and Confused and Party of Five. It's the other London. Uh, I think maybe

01:26:29.380 --> 01:26:32.030
I'm getting them all mixed up. Anyway, Mallrats, that's what we're gonna see next week.

01:26:32.180 --> 01:26:35.360
Uh, have you seen Mallrats? Dude, I do not think I've seen Mallrats.

01:26:35.860 --> 01:26:38.920
Sweet. I know, I mean, I'm excited about to check this one out and,

01:26:39.420 --> 01:26:42.527
and And to see how Kevin Smith did with like a budget, because we had

01:26:43.027 --> 01:26:46.526
watched Clerks, right, which had like a lot of the quintessential Kevin Smith

01:26:46.702 --> 01:26:49.737
elements to it but was so limited by its budget. It was his

01:26:49.769 --> 01:26:52.820
first film. So now that he's been given a little cash, I'd love to see

01:26:53.320 --> 01:26:56.914
what he's, uh, gonna do. It certainly did not have the same multiplier effect,

01:26:57.380 --> 01:27:01.651
uh, as a box office thing that Clerks did. Um, and actually also Mallrats,

01:27:01.731 --> 01:27:05.569
although we won't be reviewing this one, it is in my opinion the Best DVD

01:27:06.069 --> 01:27:08.989
commentary track of any movie I've ever seen. It's absolutely hilarious.

01:27:09.117 --> 01:27:12.553
Okay, they spend the entire time making fun of Ben Affleck, who was present for

01:27:13.053 --> 01:27:15.989
the commentary, but he was also filming Armageddon at the same time he was filming

01:27:16.022 --> 01:27:19.538
Mallrats. And so it's there's a lot of very

01:27:20.038 --> 01:27:22.846
funny stuff that I will look back and make sure to reference when we watch

01:27:23.346 --> 01:27:26.234
it next week. But yeah, so that will be next week. Jeannie, thank you so

01:27:26.734 --> 01:27:30.232
much for joining us as our first ever guest. Absolutely awesome. You were wonderful.

01:27:30.470 --> 01:27:33.180
Wonderful. And you're welcome back. Thank you for having me. Welcome back anytime. I was

01:27:33.680 --> 01:27:37.120
very nervous. Well, maybe, maybe next time won't be. It didn't

01:27:37.620 --> 01:27:40.580
show. You did great. All right, everybody, that's a wrap. If you like what you

01:27:41.080 --> 01:27:44.070
hear, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a 5-star review.

01:27:44.100 --> 01:27:46.960
It helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website at

01:27:47.460 --> 01:27:50.800
twodadsonemovie.com. That's the number 2 and the number 1. There you can explore the

01:27:51.300 --> 01:27:54.520
movies we've covered, sign up for our newsletter, The Rewind, and even get sneak previews

01:27:55.020 --> 01:27:58.226
of upcoming episodes. Once again, this has been A Few Good Men. Another episode of

01:27:58.242 --> 01:28:01.361
2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve. And I'm Nic. Thank you so much for listening.

01:28:01.474 --> 01:28:02.648
We'll catch you next week. Thanks,