They were slaughtering the spring lambs and
they were screaming. And you ran away?
No. First I tried to free them.
I opened the gate to their pen, but they wouldn't run. They just stood there,
confused. They wouldn't run. But you could and you
did, didn't you? Yes. I took
one lamb and I ran away as fast as I could. Where were you going,
Chloe? I don't know. I didn't have any food,
any water, and it was very cold. Very cold.
I thought. I thought if I could save just one,
but he was so heavy.
So heavy.
I didn't get more than a few miles when the sheriff's car picked me up.
Rancher was so angry, he sent me to live at the Lutheran orphanage in Postman.
I never saw the ranch again. What became of your
lamb, Clarice? I killed
him. You still wake up sometimes, don't you? You wake up in
the dark and hear the screaming of the lambs.
Yes. And you think if
you save poor Catherine, you could make them stop, don't you? You think
if Katherine lives, you won't wake up in the dark ever again
to that awful screaming of the lambs.
I don't know. I don't know.
Thank you, Glo.
It's 2Dads 1 movie.
Shocktoberfest. A celebration of the spookiest
movies of the 80s and 90s. Now here are your hosts.
Scary Steve Paulo and Nightmare. Nic,
Brianna. Hello, everybody. It's another
episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve. And I'm Nic. And today we are
talking about the 1990. Oh, correct me if I'm wrong, 1 91,
I think. Yeah, yeah. Thriller, crime drama.
Oh, so many great things. The Silent of the Lambs starring Jody
Foster and Anthony Hopkins. And then also Scott Glenn, sort of, but really, really Jody
Foster and Anthony Hopkins. They're driving the bus here for sure. Oh, man. A little
Ted Divine, right? Or whatever. Yeah. But no fantastic
movie going to jump into it. It's. This is the fourth of our five Shocktober
Fest episode. So, you know, we're really enjoying the spooky season. I hope that,
you know, listener, you're enjoying the month of October with us. It's been going well.
We've been getting some good feedback from people. Yeah, it's been great. A lot of
fun and. Yeah. And actually, speaking of feedback, we got an.
An old friend Nic and I had back in high school.
Jeff. Jeff Harrow. How you doing out there, buddy? Hope you're listening. I'm going to
read your email on the air. Well, the Air. Whatever. It's a podcast. This is
the air. This isn't like FCC broadcast. So here's the email, the subject
matter, the subject line. Paulo, Nic. Two requests, one email. He's so clever with
the. Very nice. Yeah. First time, long time. Here. The pod rules. Oh, he's so
nice. And great to regularly hear both your voices, only slightly more grizzled than they
were in the late 90s. Request one tombstone. I think we could probably figure
that out at some point. I feel like that's in the queue. It's in the
queue. It's in the queue. Request to two episodes behind, but assume you haven't had
a 3Dads1 movie guest host. If you haven't, please have Krispy on it. That's Nick's
brother. Join for something, anything. And I think that's a great idea. I don't know.
Yeah. Would be into that. No, for sure. We're gonna start bringing some guests.
So we got. We got big plans for our future here. But I love that
suggestion, Jeff. Absolutely. And we'll have to see maybe what? Maybe Chris could either,
like, jump into a movie we already have scheduled or pick one that he would
really love or something like that. That'll be a lot of fun. And then Jeff
says, sneaking in a third request. Paulo. That's me. You were adamant about us all
watching Swingers as a modern master masterpiece at one of Jason Honduras's pool parties.
Shout out, Jason, and turns out you weren't wrong, my man. I'll assume that one's
in the works. And he's not wrong. It is in the works. He's also not
wrong. It was a modern Masterpiece in the mid-90s. Holds up. I have a feeling
if he's talking about a Banduras pool party, that was actually probably a theater cast
party, I would bet, at some point. So we're talking like 98. Yeah, like 96.
97. You know, that's when the movie came out. It would have been like,
May 98, something like that. And all the. All the theater kids getting together and
watching that, which makes a lot of sense. Very nice. So, yeah, so Jeff says
we should keep it up. He loves the production, the consistency, and I do think
the consistency is a thing. We try really hard to make sure there is an
episode every morning. Wednesday, 5am Pacific. Every single week. We get
up so early every Wednesday to go live. We hope you all appreciate it.
Yeah. So thank you, Jeff, for writing in. And if you want to
do what Jeff did and write an email to the 2Dads, you can do so
at the show at 2Dads, one movie.
Okay. Yeah. Thanks, Jeff. Dude, good to hear from you. I talk to Jeff
a lot. Yeah, that's great. But it's great to have support from him. And,
you know, we've gotten email from total strangers and people who we don't even know
where they live. And we love hearing from you, seriously. Like, Steve and
I love to chat movies. We're very responsive. So if anyone has some suggestions,
fire away. You know, we're learning as we go along with this, but we feel
like we have something really fun going. Absolutely. And we have some more theme months
coming up. Like I said, this is the fourth of five Shocktoberfest episodes. We have
a whole new thing planned for November. We'll get into that next week.
We have a whole different thing planned for December and for January. So it's like,
you're going to want to stick around. There's going to be a lot of fun,
and, you know, it's going to be kind of. I think it's gonna be really
interesting to see these movies sort of back to. Back to back when they're.
When they're related by a particular theme. And we'll, of course, get into all that
soon. Absolutely. All right. So, the Silence of the Lambs. Nic,
you picked the Silence of the Lambs for us for Shocktoberfest. Talk to me about
your history with the Silence of the Lambs. Yeah, so I think. I mean,
probably pretty similar to most people as I knew of it at the time,
but we were on the young side. So we weren't watching this when it came
out. No, definitely not. And even later, until we
got to college age, we're talking to each other about, oh, this movie's
really good. You have to check it out. Because even in high school, it's like,
Tommy Boy or Silence of the Winds. What are you gonna watch with your boys?
But you just grow to appreciate it more and
more. I think the more you get into examining
films and just the older you get and stuff to appreciate this kind of movie.
So is one I kind of saw, you know, in my 20s. But recently,
especially my wife Jeannie is a huge fan of this movie, and her and I,
I think, have watched it together maybe four times. Oh, my gosh. And it's
just. It's hard because you kind of get lost in how
good it is that you forget how many trigger warnings you should probably include when
you're recommending it to somebody. Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So if you're
like, oh, you need a good movie to watch tonight, do Silence of the Lambs
because forget this, because the movie is just so enthralling and compelling
and like, the. The work is so great in it. So, yeah, I mean,
this is one that I thought it's not a traditional horror movie, but this
is how something that is truly like an artistic film and a blockbuster can also
be, like, in the genre of Shocktoberfest. Absolutely. I think if the
particular combination of, like, critical and award success, which we'll get into,
plus box office success, that alone is like a rare combo
to have both of those, but then to also do it in what is,
again, not. Not a specifically genre horror film,
but a very dark, twisted, you know,
spooky, scary kind of thing. Like, it's pretty impressive that
this. That this movie, you know, is what it is and became what it.
What it is. Yeah, I. For my part, I think I first saw Silence
Lambs probably in college. I was briefly, at least a film student in college.
And this is the kind of movie that, like, if you become a film student
in college and you haven't seen it yet, you know, you're like an outsider.
Like, you gotta catch up. You gotta make sure you watch Casablanca and the Godfather,
and you gotta make sure you watch the Silence of the Lambs. And so.
But I don't think I've seen it in probably 15 years. Like, at least.
Definitely one we haven't watched in a while. Although, funny enough, I gotta ask you,
your wife, Jeannie, is she into, like, true crime podcasts and stuff like that?
Is that like, her bag or. No. So, like, not really now, like,
this current wave of that being a big thing. But what she used to tell
me she would read all the time at her job was this website called,
like, True Crime Diary. Oh, interesting. And this is like early 2000s, and she
said she would read that all the time and it was, you know, different true
crime stories. So, I mean, the genre, for sure, she's drawn towards that.
Yeah, I asked because my wife Heather, also a huge fan of this movie,
very much into true crime. She watches the YouTubes and listens to the podcasts and
Dateline is on constantly. Oh, yeah. So funny.
Funny parallel there. I think it enhances your viewing experience
of this. Just kind of knowing the terminology or, like, hearing about ways
that an investigation might go right. Generally, like, watching this, you kind of understand,
okay, this is why they're doing this and everything. So it's great to inform that.
So, yeah, huge for True crime fans, especially. Yeah, very. Even though. God, I hope
it's not true. No, no, it is fictional. It is. It is based on a
novel. So. But, yeah, so actually. So let's go ahead and jump into the facts.
Yeah. On the Silence of the Lambs. The Silence of the Lambs came out on
February 14, Valentine's Day, 1991, with a
well deserved R rating, a running time of 118 minutes. The film was
directed by Jonathan Demme, written by Ted Talley, from the novel by Thomas Harris,
starring Jody Foster, Anthony Hopkins and Scott Glenn. I include Scott because
he did get billing above the title, so I figured, you know, throw him in
there. But really, this is Jody Foster and Anthony Hopkins for sure. The scores.
Rotten tomatoes, 95% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.
Basically nobody said a bad thing about the. When it
came out on IMDb, it has an 8.6, which is massive score for IMDb.
It is actually the 22nd highest rated film on IMDb.
There's at least 100 movies, so that's pretty impressive. Well, I was gonna say they
tell you the top 250 or top 200 or something like that. So after that,
I think you have to guess on your own. After that, I think you're into
the 7.2 territory where there's like 10,000 movies at that rate. But. And then we
like to throw this one into Roger Ebert. A big thumbs up for the Silence
of the Lambs when it came out. Gene Siskel, a thumbs down.
Now, I think that's crazy, to be honest with you. Just viewing the movie as
a work of art, as a. As a film, you know, I think that's pretty
crazy. But just to briefly sort of explain Siskel's thumbs down,
he was quoted at the time in his review saying that he found the movie
a quote, a depressingly brutal, trashy thriller with a
predictable monster in the house finale. Now, I couldn't
disagree more. I do think it's brutal. I don't know if I would use depressingly
as an adjective there, but it's brutal. So. Okay. Trashy. I feel
like trashy talk more about an exploitation type horror movie. I don't
think this was it at all. I mean, it definitely has extremely disturbing themes,
but it's not as graphic as like a quote trashy movie
would be to kind of exploit these themes. And it's also one thing to look
back at this movie now in 2025 and look at the, like, just absolutely completely
insensitive treatment of transgender people in the movie. Sort of like that stuff.
But we're look, I'm looking back at this movie from, from the vantage point
of here. Gene Siskel was looking at it from 91. So I feel like
unless he was incredibly enlightened, that probably wasn't exactly what he
was going about. Apparently he had issues with the way that the female victims and
these crimes against women in this movie were treated. Maybe not with as much sensitivity
as he'd hoped, something like that. But regardless, Gene Siskel was a thumbs down,
gave it a 1.5 out of 4 on their, on their 4 point scale there.
Okay, moving on. Awards. It won a total of
71 awards across different award
shows and then was nominated for 50 additional awards that it did not
win. But the five I'm going to mention, of course, are its five Oscars.
It won the big four, the best picture, Best director, best lead actor
for Anthony Hopkins, best lead actress for Jodie Foster. And then, you know, I think
if you could think about like the next big four, like after those would be
like the supporting actors and the screenwriting awards. It did win best adapted screenplay as
well. So massive award show hit. Sounds of the Lambs is,
you know, one of probably one of the most brutal best picture winners ever.
Oh, yeah. And then its commercial success was on
unimpeachable on a $19 million budget,
which seems pretty kind of modest
for what they're able to do, at least just the makeup effects. And some of
this stuff was pretty crazy. Pulled in $272 million at
the box office for 14 times its budget.
That's, you know, again, by any meas enormous commercial success in
addition to being enormous critical success. So those are the facts on the Silence
of the Lambs. Wow. You want to jump into it, Nic? Yeah, I just want
to pour out a quick sip for everyone who had a Valentine's Day date on
opening night of Silence of the Lambs in 1991. If you're still in a relationship
that started that way, give us a shoot us an email.
Theshowdads1movie.com we'd love to examine your
life further. Seriously. We will have a lot of follow up questions.
All right, so I guess I'll get into just where we're
starting in the movie. And I do love this where it gives you the text
on the screen to indicate the location. And it's so imprecise and it just kills
me that it just says woods near Quantico, Virginia. Right?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're at the FBI Academy. That's where
they are. I know. That she's in. We can see she's in the woods.
It is very funny that it says woods. I. It's almost like on
the sheet he wrote, okay, this is what I want for the description for this.
And he wrote woods and say, right near Quantico,
Virginia. And they wrote the whole thing. They pulled a spinal tap on him.
They literal Jonathan Demme didn't catch, though. I also
think, by the way, forest is much less spooky sounding than woods, so kudos for
using woods. I feel like the woods are dark and foreboding. The forest is bright
and green and. And friendly with squirrels and shit. Right. You have creatures in the
forest and the woods is where you bury bodies. That's right, exactly.
So. So we're shown the Jodie Foster character, Clarice Starling,
who's doing one of those tough mudder competitions. But it's not on social media for
some reason. No. She's a student at the FBI Academy,
and she's going through this rigorous physical obstacle course thing that they have.
And at a certain point in it, instead of just waiting for her
to finish the course and come back, the guy comes and finds her mid obstacle
course and tells her, hey, I need you back at the thing. She's like.
Like, yeah, I was. Was. This whole thing's a loop. I was going
to end up back there. That was a little confusing to me. But it was,
like, urgent that they needed to speak to her. Did. Do you think that the
messenger that went for, did he, like, do all the obstacles or do you think
he ran around them? That's the thing is, like, do you have to climb a
cargo net to give her a message or can you just shout to the top
of it? Right. So, yeah, so she has. She's being beckoned by. I don't
know what his exact sort of position is, but he's obviously a lead
agent or an agent in charge here. Quantico. His name is Crawford. And so she
has to go find Mr. Crawford in his office because he's got something he wants
to talk to her about. And there's a couple visual things here that I think
are good. They do a good job of making of, like,
emphasizing how kind of small and slight the Jodie Foster character is.
And you see that a little bit when she's on the obstacle course and when
she's being spoken to by the messenger. But then she goes into the building and
she gets into an elevator and is like a foot shorter. It's an elevator full
of all men who are wearing Basically, like the target uniform, red polos
and khakis on, and. And she's like a foot shorter than all of us.
So we see right away she's young, she's small, she's the only woman
in a man's game. Like, it gives us that all very clearly without
having to, like, talk about it too much. Yeah, there's. They do a lot of
stuff in the movie that really tries to show the issues or
sort of the challenges that she has on top of what any FBI agent would
have dealing with any case in particular. As a woman.
There are so many things that happened to her that clearly wouldn't have happened to
a man. They're just based on her gender. And this was the first one.
I agree. It's like they really, you know, kind of make it clear how kind
of tiny she is in comparison a lot of these other guys. I also think
that there is an important distinction where she's walking through to find Crawford's office in
sweat, you know, with sweat marks all over her, like sweatshirt and sweatpants because she's
working out. Whereas most of the people she's passing outside of the elevator, they're all
wearing suits, clean cut and well cropped, whatever, you know. And it's just yet another
juxtaposition that is putting her at sort of a social disadvantage. Totally.
She's there. Yeah. Yeah. And Crawford, played by the great Scott Glenn, who.
I don't know if we've seen him in one of our films yet, but he's
in the mix a lot during this era and he's really great in a lot
of things. Absolutely. So he basically brings
Starling into his office and tells her the situation is, we basically
want you to talk to Hannibal Lecter. He doesn't give her a whole lot of
information. Do some recon, find out some stuff about this. Well,
he basically is saying, I'm going to give you a survey to take to him.
We're trying to pick the brains of a bunch of incarcerated serial killers to figure
out a profile. So that'll help us move forward and find others.
Right. It's sort of what she's told. And so it's basically just like, don't interact
with him. Just you go, you deliver this survey, let him fill
it out, you bring it back or something, whatever it is, or you leave it
with him and he'll get it back, something. But that's all it really is.
It does seem a little strange. And she even kind of questions like, why?
Why me? Or whatever. And he's like, oh, well, you know, you're a promising student,
and, you know, your instructors all speak real highly of you, so this is something
that I want you to do. And I think she even picks up, says something
about, is it partly because I'm a woman? He was like, that doesn't hurt.
You know what I mean? And so he's. He's being open about the fact that
he's sort of, you know, putting her there. Maybe he thinks Lecter will
have a different reaction to a woman than he would to another man.
He mentions that they've gone and talked to Hannibal Lecter a few times trying to
do this, and he just, you know, talks circles and. And doesn't really ever give
them information that they want. Yeah. And so, yeah, like. And we don't. We don't
at this point know much about Lecter other than, you know, he's a cannibal.
Because she even says, when she kind of whispers his name almost when he says
Hannibal. Right. Hannibal the cannibal. And, you know, so we know this about him.
He's incarcerated. What are the chances, by the way? I mean, if you're going
to eat people, your name is Hannibal. I mean, God damn. Nominative determinism.
Right? That's. I also feel like there's. I've always felt like the name so Hannibal
rhyming with cannibal. And then also something about Lecter sounding like
Lectern, which is like, where, you know, you give a speech in
a church or you give, like, a sermon from a Lectern. And, like, I always
wondered if there's, like. That was also like a sort of a.
Something that Thomas Harris was trying to, like, lean towards, that he's doling
out this sort of, like, knowledge or wisdom
or something. That always kind of struck me that way. Yeah, I mean, I think
that proves that. Proves itself out as the movie goes on.
Yeah. So they send Starling, and you're going to go talk
to Lecter. And I wonder, too, do you feel that Crawford was being straight
with Starling, or do you think he kind of knew in the back of his
head, was like, oh, this might really fuck her up, or Lecter might really prey
on her in a way that he doesn't, you know, like the converse of maybe
he'll talk to you because you're a woman, or maybe he'll really try to take
advantage of you? Yeah, I think there was definitely an element of that, because I
think a little later in the movie, he kind of admits that to her that,
like, hey, like, I Sent you in there. If I had sent you in there
with a real agenda that you knew about, you know, then he would have seen
through you and it never would have worked kind of thing. So there's definitely subterfuge
here. There's definitely, definitely like, you know, a little sleight of hand happening. Whether he
honestly believes that she would be in like, true danger or just like he might
with her. Like, I don't know about, you know, if we necessarily get a good
idea there. And I guess, I mean, he's in a facility, she is an FBI
agent. Like there should be a certain expectation of like, danger with
that job. But also that she's safe because he's in a jail where he's been
for the last 10 years. Exactly. So, yeah, I don't think that he was like
hoping or thinking that she would get in any real danger,
but he was definitely like dangling her out there. There was definitely this element of
like using her as bait to sort of get what he wanted out of Lecter
for sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm just curious your thoughts on that.
So Clarice gets to the place where Lecter's being held. And she's
kind of being guided down the stairs by Dr. Chilton, who's kind of the mad
scientist, whatever. He's the doctor in charge of these mentally insane,
criminally insane, really high level criminals.
He's essentially the warden, right? But this is. This is the Baltimore Criminal Psychiatric
Hospital or something. But essentially they're all the inmates there are his patients. But really
he's a warden more than anything. And one thing I want to point out.
So this actor is this Anthony Heald playing Dr. Chilton. Great actor. Love him.
Love to hate him. He is always a smarmy piece of
shit. Like there's never a point. I cannot think of a single role Anthony Heald
played where I didn't hate the character that he played. Which only bolsters the
statement that, that Anthony Heald's a very good actor. Because there's no way in real
life that guy. I don't even know if he's still alive, but if he is
or was, is like a piece of shit like that. You know what I mean?
I'm sure he's a great guy, but he plays the smarmiest. He's.
Oh, God. Because if you just see his face in something, you're just like,
ah, this guy, like, he's. He's up to something. He's always trying to take the
mountain back from the kids, you know, whatever. Like, and he, you know, as he's
kind of explaining, he's being partially informative towards Clarice, telling her,
like, okay, watch out for this. Lecter's like this, be careful of this.
But he's being extremely condescending to her and very pervy to her and like,
flirting with her and trying to just in a creepy way.
One of the guards there, who seems to be like one of the
only nice people, right, Frankie Faison deals with it.
The great Frankie Faison, who we've seen several times so far,
named Barney. He is very nice to Clarice as he, you know, it's gonna
be okay, whatever. And they send her down the hallway. And Lecter's basically at the
end this hallway. And there's several other prisoners lined up there. And they tell her,
like, don't look at anyone. Don't say anything. Stay to the right, right? And I
will note, however, there does appear to be another set of stairs at the end
of the hallway near Hannibal's, you know, Lecter's cell. I don't know why they couldn't
send her down that way. They had to send her through the MIGs. They had
to send her past MIGs who get to here. So, yeah, so we don't.
We don't we. I think there are four cells, or maybe there's three cells.
And then Lecter cell. And the three cells up to that point are all standard,
you know, iron bars cells. Whereas Lecter's is like this glass thing.
It's got some like, holes, I guess, for letting oxygen. So it's not like,
you know, suffocate him. But really it's all glass. There's no
way to get through it. So as she's walking by these other three
inmates, they're all shouting horrible stuff to him. And the last one before the
one next to Lecter is migs. And he, you know, says something,
you know, really gross, like, cover your ears if you're, if you're, you know,
bad language bothers you, but I can smell your cunt, like, oh, just so.
Just so dirty and gross and horrif. We're so early in this
movie, you know. And again, if you're on that Valentine's Day
1991 theater date, you're really. You might be questioning things at this
point. Yeah. And if not right now, in about 10 minutes, boy, you're walk out
of the theater. I don't know if the hole in the old popcorn bucket is
going to get any use. Yeah. So she walks by and people are
Being just this guy is just absolutely despicable. Because also imagine,
like, what are they in there? I mean, similarly, I mean, maybe not quite as
bad. Lecter with this notorious cannibal. Right, Exactly.
And she begins to start talking with Lecter,
and Lecter is fully in control. Even though he's imprisoned,
he has no actual physical power. But it's amazing how the second
she gets. He's just fully in control during that whole conversation.
I want to wax poetic for just a bit about Lecter's initial appearance.
I think it's so well done. It's one. I mean, honestly, there's so much in
this. It's great from Demi, but. But this and one scene later, I think,
are really what. What solidified his Oscar win. The tension
that gets ramped up on the walk to Lecter's
cell is such that each of the. Each of the inmates she walks by
are progressively, like, psychotic. Like. Like actively
saying horrible things or doing horrible things until we get to mix. One guy's kind
of climbing all over the place, right? Yeah. And there's just all this craziness.
And it's, like, ramping up, up until Mig says that horrible thing to her.
Whatever. But then you get to see Lecter. You know, she. She goes, one thing.
And you see him, Lecter, and he is standing perfectly still, not quite
chest, you know, looking forward. He's, like, in a slight angle. You know, the kind
of thing that you would do if you're, like, protecting your body from, like,
an onslaught or you're watching multiple exits or something. Like, he's got this very tactical
stance to him for some reason, but it's also completely calm, right? And. And it's
that calmness juxtaposed with what she just had to walk past
that is so disarming in such a dangerous way. And just the tension
buildup up to appearance, and then the way that they have him sort of posed
and standing there is just all so brilliant. And then. And then from
there, Anthony Hopkins takes over, right? And it's like the way he talks to her,
the things that he says. I mean, even, like, at one point, he asks
her to come closer to talk to or whatever. And the way he says,
closer, please, closer. It's just so
good and so tense and wonderful.
He has no doubts in his head about, like, how do I get her.
Her to do what I want her to do? Like, he knows exactly what
to say. He knows exactly the pace of everything. It's really apparent
from that first scene. It's awesome. Great work by Everyone, Right? Yeah.
And it's clear, too, that he kind of gives away that there's more to this
than this survey she's bringing. Because he asks her about Buffalo Bill.
His case comes up and Lecter does. Yeah, you're right.
Like, he knows a lot, but then he doesn't know a lot. You also don't
know. Is he just being coy? Is he just trying to see like. Like,
what does this agent know? Because the way Lecter acts, you're like,
all right, we're just subject to whatever this guy tells
us. But we're not going to be able to learn anything about him if he
doesn't want us to. Right, Right. He's asking her a little about herself,
but then he tells her. She asks about his
reputation, basically, as a cannibal. And he says, a census
taker tried to test me once. And I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice Chianti, which is a, you know, classic. A very classic
lion there. So. Yeah, and he was just very casual about it because it wasn't
even like, I killed him. And then it was just like, I incidentally, ate his
liver. And these were, you know, the side dishes. Right? Yeah. The wine
pairing. This was how I. Yeah, exactly. It's just very, very.
Just matter of fact, right about it. Right. For sure. So.
So then Clarice is. Is going to leave. Leave.
Right. She has to walk by all the same cells again.
And Migs. Yeah, you know, Migs is pleasure.
Really into the smell that he smelled earlier, apparently. Yeah. And he throws
his results. Emission, I guess we can
call it. Yeah. At Clarice, like,
right in her face, honestly. I mean, context aside,
impressive. Great shot. Great shot. If there was a
dude perfect for being the biggest creep in the world. Like, Migs is,
you know, their top influencer. Absolutely. So.
So basically, you know, she's very upset. Electra calls her
back briefly, you know, and tells her something and she runs out. She does not
have the something about Mary hair when she leaves it. I like the restraint of
the filmmakers to not make that a big deal. No, they, they. By the time
we see her again after getting, like, up the stairs, she's obviously cleaned up at
some point as she leaves the thing. So. So he says something about look for
Ms. Moffat and something. And then says something about, like. Like you, you know,
yourself. There was something about yourself. I can remember the exact link. But he's telling
her to go look for a former patient of mine, Ms. Moffat. Yeah. And she,
you know, basically, we go back, she Is doing a little bit of research,
whatever. And Crawford talks to her. It's actually funny. They show her,
like back at Quantico. She was in Baltimore. They show her back at Quantico and
doing like. Like stuff like. Like, like running and like going
to class, like, doing whatever. And then when she talks to Crawford, he goes,
I know this morning was rough. And I'm like, this is one day. Like,
holy crap. But I guess, you know, in the life of an FBI agent or
student or whatever, it's busy. But basically she says, amazing recovery.
Yeah, basically she says there's. There's no Ms. Moffat in his patient records
or anything like that that didn't get destroyed. But there is like, yourself sounded way
too specific the way he said that. So there is a yourself self storage
in Baltimore or at the outskirts of. Or something like that. Right.
And so she basically tells Crawford, I'm gonna go check it out. She goes to
this self storage place. I think it's like it's raining or it's nighttime or whatever
it is. But the guy that's like, must be the owner and is like showing
her around is so weirdly like Monopoly guy or
something. It's a bizarre character. Very weird.
I can't even tell, like, if he's supposed to be like, wealthy or
just eccentric or like, what. But it's very strange person. Yeah.
Super weird. And she's. And she's trying to get the storage unit opening open
and having a ton of trouble with it. This guy's standing there not helping it
off. She looks to his driver, who's this enormous
looking dude, and she's like, could he help me? He's like, oh, he. He doesn't.
He detests physical labor. Physical labor, like, abhors physical
labor. It's so strange. So poor Clarice, once again, like, no respect.
No. No help from anyone. She has to get like, a car jack.
Yep. And jacks the door up and then make sure to give him her business
card and says, hey, if I get trapped in here, this is me. Everyone knows
I'm with you. Please help me. Right? Exactly. And she can barely get any.
She actually cuts herself. Her leg getting underneath the door because she can only raise
it a few inches. Luckily, she's very small. She's able to get through. And this
storage unit is absolutely packed. Oh, and we should. We should mention that it said
it was prepaid for 10 years. So there's only. There's two years left on it
because Lecter's been away for eight under the name Ms. Moffat. So. So it's.
She. It's confirmation for her. She found what she was looking for. Exactly. She goes
in and this storage unit is absolutely packed to the gilt with all kinds of
stuff. Just absolutely. Biggest storage unit. It's got to be 40 by 40ft
or something. It's absolutely enormous. I think it's where Jay Leno keeps his car.
Crazy. She does refer to it as a garage, which is a pretty appropriate,
you know, because of the size. Pretty appropriate way to refer to it. One thing
I noticed here, she really should have brought gloves with her at one point,
she tries moving something she uses like a. Like a napkin or like a handkerchief.
Not sure why. She's more of a travel kit, but yeah. So she is
looking around. She finds a car underneath. Underneath the tarp, pulls the tarp off,
and then climbs into the back of the car. And there is. There's all kinds
of creepy shit. I'm sorry, if you own multiple mannequins, go to
jail tomorrow. Like, there's no reason. Unless you're a dressmaker. Yeah,
exactly. Seamster or seamstress. Exactly.
But, yeah, so. So she ends up discovering a jar,
human head in a jar. That's right. And this
is very kind of upsetting to her. We don't really see her getting out of
there. It kind of goes back after her discovery to her speaking with Lecter.
That's right. Yeah. This is interesting, too. He notices right away that she cut herself.
Even though it's clearly not a large cut, he can tell whether he can smell
the blood or something. Whatever it is, he can tell she's just recently injured,
which is very creepy. And basically she asks
him about the head in the jar, but he wants. This is the whole thing
about quid pro quo, right. Where he wants her to give him something, and then
he'll give her something, whatever. So this is when they get in a little bit
to her, a little bit to her background. Not everything, but a little bit of
the background where she. Both her parents. Well, her mom died when she was very
young, and then her dad, who was a cop, died, and she was like 10
or 11, something like that. And then she was sent to a ranch in Montana
where family had her. And then she said she ran away. She was only there
for two months and she ran away. And they try to get into it,
but she won't get into it with him. This is also before she gets there,
I think we find out that Miggs is dead. Right.
So we find that out because she goes in there And Lecter's cell is slightly
different, I think. It seems like he has maybe less of his personal items.
But then on the tv, it's this kind of like, televangelist preacher
guy. Which, you know, knowing what we know about Lecter's character, he's not watching that
other than for research. Like, this is not something he's interested in. Well, this.
It's punishment, he says. It's Chilton being a petty ass bitch. Right. So he says
to. He says to Clarice, like, as soon as you leave, they're going to turn
this way up. But Lecter does know about the
head in the jar guy. Yes. And he refers to the person as a fledgling
killer. Right. Who killed him? Yeah. So it's like. And this
was a former patient. These are all, like, patients of his, basically.
That's right. So we find out he's killed Migs. Right.
Which is crazy because it's like, how did he do that?
Yeah. It's not like there's chow time and they're all playing Sorry together
in the rec room. Crawford said something on the phone when he was telling Clarice
that Migs is dead. And it was something about, like, the guards saw him
talking to, like. Saw Lector whispering through the, like, holes in
his cell. And Migs was real close, you know, to whatever. And then later
they found him having choked on his tongue, I think, or something like that.
Which is just like. That's bizarre. I don't know what went on there. But anyway,
he is being punished for the death of Migs. There is a line where she.
He basically asks a really vulgar question about like, did your uncle on the ranch
want to you? Or something like that. And he. And she says, that's the sort
of thing Migs would say. And he goes, not anymore.
Crazy. I just. Sorry. I'm like, that's so funny
to me. He was fully, like. He took her comeback,
which is like, in that scenario. That is the best thing she could have
said. Oh, God, yeah. It was a good line of prod at him a little
bit. And he just rolled over that. Like, he's just an old Osmobile hitting
a slight speed bump. Like, you don't even feel it, dude.
Amazing, Amazing Lecter stuff. So now we
get a cut to a woman driving in a car. We're in Memphis now,
and there's a little sing along to Tom Petty's American Girl. Girl, which is
a fun song to sing along, especially when you're by yourself. I do think it's
a little on the Nose. Given that all of the victims of Buffalo Bill are
American girls, like, it's just kind of funny, but, like, yeah, that is the song
that she's listening to and singing. Yeah.
But Buffalo Bill also won't back down. So if we use that one. I don't
know. Yeah. So this is. This is
Chris. What is her name? Christina Marks. Right. Isn't that. So we
find out in a little bit. Right, Right. So it's clearly like, okay, here's.
Here's one of the victims, right. And she gets to her apartment and sees
this man with a van, like, really struggling to load, like, a seat
into the back. He's got his hand bandaged up, so it's really hard for him
to do it. Right. Before that, though, we do see that someone is watching her.
We get the sense it's the man with the van but with night vision goggles.
Right. And so there's a really cool. That whole green sort of look that night
vision goggles has. So we know that he's got these night vision goggles as it
obviously comes into play later. But this is Buffalo Bill. Like, this is. There's no.
There's no surprise here. And he gets her in there by sort
of, like, asking, you know, she offers to help, and it's like, okay, maybe if
you could just get into the van, and I'll lift this up and, like,
I'll push her back here. So she does. And then he is. You know,
and then he asks her, like, are you size 14? And she's like,
sorry, crazy. Yeah. And then he beats her unconscious,
checks the tag on her shirt, and sure enough, she's a size 14.
And he, like, cuts the back of it off and leaves it there. Now,
I don't know if that's, like, intentionally like, a calling card thing, if that's what
he's doing or what, but he does leave it there, and it later does come
back to sort of tie her disappearance to his series of killings. Yeah.
I do want to say, for any future serial killers out
there who are kind of size queens, you know, the size is really dependent on
where you buy it. So, yes, Catherine was a size 14. And what she was
wearing, if it was from H and M, you know, maybe she. She's a size
18. And if it's from, you know, White House black market, Maybe she's a 12.
They're all different. So, you know, don't use that as your metric for murdering people.
No, exactly. Also, really watch out for, like, anything off a temu, because once you
get into like Japanese and Korean styles. A lot of times the sizes are way
off. Yeah, absolutely. Good point, good point, good note, good note.
So, yeah, I mean, really, really brutal. And I mean,
God, do not be in the car. And when you're helping somebody load
something, don't help people. I gotta be honest with you. You don't help people.
Like, like if you're alone and it's dark and you don't
know this person, you don't need to help that person. Just get in your house.
Yeah, just go to your house or death. It's just, it's a. He's putting furniture
in a van like, like it's not anything to do with you. And let him
struggle for a while. Her apartment was there. My plan personally would have been pretend
I'm on the phone, walk in the apartment, watch this guy out the window for
20 minutes. If he's legit struggling still, I'll go home. Maybe if
he stopped struggling once I left. Yeah. He looks
like he's waiting for the next person to come by. Like. Yeah, it gives you
a good sign. All right, so then this means now that they have to head
out to. Oh, we get a quick flashback. Oh, that's right. To Clarice's dad's.
That's right. It's kind of like back and forth because they're in the
mortuary. Right. I believe. And in one of the rooms it's like there's a real
funeral happening. And then through a couple doors, there's like where the mortician is actually
working and the bottom bodies and stuff. Because this is where we're in West Virginia
now. They found the fifth, I think, or sixth body. I'm not even
100 sure at this point. I think it's the sixth because the sixth. Because we
saw the headline said Bill Skins fifth already. So that already happened. So this is
the sixth victim that they're tying to Buffalo Bill. And so they have to go
check it on. She's of course, from West Virginia. I'm sure that's all very triggering
for her when it comes to that stuff. So, yeah, it looks like she's walking
up to the funeral with this guy. And it turns out, yeah, we are in
a flashback. We're looking at maybe 12 year old Clarice and when it's her dad's,
you know, thing. And then we, we do jolt back to reality. There was a
moment where Crawford says to the sheriff, like, you know, these kinds
of crimes I don't want to talk about, like in full company. And He.
And he pulls him aside and I was first. I was thinking, like, that's total
bullshit. Like, she's an FBI agent. Like, why. Why do they. Why can you not
talk about this around her? Just because she's a woman. It's complete crap. It did
seem like he had an intention of, like, separating the sheriff away from everybody else
to like. And that was like, how he did it. Which it's, you know,
okay, like, I get. I get that the motivation there was not actually to belittle
her, but he of kind. Kind of used her gender and presence as a way
to like, get something which is very crappy. Yeah. But I love it too.
He's then on the phone in the room with the body of the girl that's
been found that they need to examine. And all these other, like, sheriff's deputies are
just hanging out, being loud as hell. Crawford's trying to talk on the phone and
it's Clarice who goes, okay, gentlemen, like, you know, I know she. She and
her family appreciate that y' all gotten her this far, but, you know, let us
take over. We'll take good care of her. Her. Go on now. Go on,
get. I just love, like the very like,
take control, but also a little bit belittling she's being to them
is awesome. Like, it is. So it's so like she's able to. Give them back
a little of what. Because imagine, I mean, it didn't show it all in the
movie, but what has her experience been in the hour, whatever that she's been there.
Right. So that probably felt good and good on her for being so new and
being able to do that. And there's a. There's a wrecking recognition from Crawford too,
when she does that. He kind of smiles at her. Like, nice work. Like,
yeah, he's Crawford. Although I think ultimately
he. He wants to her, but I think he thinks that she's a good agent
and he wants to her. I think that's accurate and he is pretty supportive.
And he gives her a lot of chances to do like, much bigger stuff than
her position would normally call for. Yeah, absolutely. I do want to shout out the
mortician in this film who we've seen many times before. One of our favorites,
Trust Tracy. Walter, Tracey. Walter. Welcome back, buddy. So Starling is
basically given the task of giving the verbal autopsy notes
into the tape recorder. So she's going around taking a look at it really big
time experience. One acting thing. I mean, Jodie Foster
here is unbelievable the way that you can tell she's so shook by
this and shook by her experience over the last few days, of course,
understandably. But she's also realizing, like, this is
the biggest shot I'm ever gonna get. Like, I can't break here. I can't be
the girl who starts crying and goes home. Like, so watching her fight through
that as she's taking the notes even before they find, like, the most disturbing shit
is really, really well done by her. Yeah. And speaking of the
most disturbing shit, she is the one that notices there is something behind her tongue
or behind, you know, in her throat, like, whatever. And they, you know, they're using
some tweezers, they pull out a little cocoon. So, you know, everybody's a
little flabbergasted by it. But she. She takes it with her and goes to
the Smithsonian. One of the next scene is this awesome. She's walking around
all the dinosaurs. Like, she's clearly like, in D.C. you know, at. At one of
the Smithsonians or whatever. Right. I guess. Kind of the only comic relief in the
entire movie. Yes. We get a little Rosencrantz and Guildenstern here. Here in a minute.
But yeah, one of the two entomologists that she brings
this. This cocoon to. I wrote bug nerds, so I'm glad you knew that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was funny when I was talking to Heather about it while
I was watching. I use the word etymologist at first. That's of course incorrect.
That's a linguist who studies the origins of words. An entomologist is
a scientist who studies insects. So the entomologists
there that she is discussing with one of the two of them,
the slightly less weird looking one, played Bulldog on
the TV show Frasier for its entire run. And one thing that Heather
and I love is Frasier. So it's funny to see Bulldog in this very,
very different role because he's a sports, like, gonzo radio guy on that show.
So. But anyway, we're getting vocabulary and grammar
here, folks. So. So basically the other one who isn't Bulldog hits on
her and literally asks her out. She's just like, puts up with this shit from
everybody, which is insane. He's nice about it, but it must be annoying. I mean,
he's not as bad as I'm sure others are. He's not vulgar about it.
He asks her straight up, can I take you out? She said, you know,
are you asking me? He said, yes, I'm hitting on you, like, whatever, you know,
he's just very honest about him. When she says no, he doesn't push. So,
like, that's all great, but, like, she shouldn't have to deal with that, period.
She do her job, you know? But, I mean, at least this guy. Yeah.
Wasn't like a creep about it. He was just very forward. So they. So they
find out now what this specimen was, and they're able to determine
that it's this moth that's called the death's head moth, and it's not native
to anywhere near us. Where did they say it came from? Like Suriname
or something. Suriname or Singapore or Nepal. Okay. And it was, like,
basically, like, kind of like southeastern Asia
to eastern Asia. You know, something in that ballpark. So it's not fly in here.
No, it's. It was shipped in. Absolutely imported. It's super
out of place here. Yeah. And the entomologists even say, like, somebody loved this bug,
basically. Somebody really had to, like, take care of it, keep it warm. Like this
was cared for. This wasn't just random. It's like having an orchid or something like
that. Like, it. It requires a high degree of care just to keep it alive.
Exactly. Right. Yes. So. So this
is crazy news that we find. And now we're kind of back to.
Buffalo Bill layer, where there are a lot of moths.
Moths all over the place. Just this horribly
creepy, disgusting. I mean, they do such a good job of making his place
just. It makes your skin crawl. Yeah. And. And then
he has a well in there. And there at the bottom of
it, like Ra's Al Ghul is Catherine sitting
there, and Bill is making some kind of. I think he's using his sewing machine.
You could see he's kind of making some type of suit. He's sewing
some leather, it looks like. Yeah. So Catherine's
mom is a senator. So that's kind of. We're not sure if that's why she
was targeted. But anyway, it's somebody who's important and get on TV and try to
get this solved. So we kind of see her mom on TV pleading to the
killer. And they're being very. The cops are being very complimentary
of the way Catherine's mom is. The senator is talking.
They're like, oh, she's very good at this. She's really appealing the correct way to
this person. This is somebody who's very smart and thought out. Here she's
using her name over and over again, referring to her as Catherine, Catherine, Catherine,
all this stuff. And we notice when Bill is interacting with Catherine from above
the well and giving her the famous. Sort of like, it puts the Lotion on
its skin. Like, he keeps calling her it. Yeah, right. That's very deliberate. He wants
to dehumanize so that it makes this all easier for him. So the fact that
Senator Marks is using her daughter's name over and over again on the TV is
smart. Now, I don't even know for sure we know that Bill sees her
statements or not. They don't make it clear. I don't think he's not sitting there
watching it or anything like that. It depends on if he was at a bar
or not at the time. So. Hey, turn that up. Turn that up. Yeah,
but. Yeah, so. So that's. There's interaction between them,
and she's basically just pleading for her life. And he is
getting frustrated with her. And this interaction between them is very tense, and it's
clear that he has designs and she's not safe.
And then I think it's when the basket comes back up with the lotion in
it. She sees blood marks all over the wall. Did I jump ahead?
We're a little ahead, but let's talk about that. Because when Catherine
is down there. Yeah. I mean, so she's already in this most horrifying
situation. The way that Bill is talking to her is crazy.
And again, the acting by that actor.
And why does his name slip me right now? This is a guy whose name
I should know, but he's, like, having this restraint,
but it's different. Like, Lecter just seems naturally restrained, in control.
And Bill is trying desperately to be in control while he's
saying it, puts the lotion on his skin. And he's like, all right, what would
a guy do to try to be nice, to ask this? And I can do
it three times in a row. And then I get visibly frustrated. And his voice
is so weird. Put the lotion in the basket. It's just so weird.
But then when Catherine, she sees this, you know,
fingernail and blood on the wall. So it's like, I'm not the first one to
be thrown in this fucking. Well. And she starts screaming. And the most horrifying
thing is Bill's, like, mocking screaming of her. Yeah.
So she's screaming, and he's just going, oh.
Oh, my God, what a good job. I mean, this is, like, really the
horror of this movie. It's just this guy, again, referring to as an it.
Referring to her as an it. Like, this is somebody who does not see you
as human and you're his prisoner. It's. It's nuts. All right,
so I think back into where the Plot for sure. Where we were is now
we've got Clarice bringing a deal to Lecter, right? Oh, yes. That's where we're at.
So. So she has arrived with a deal. She says,
senator Marks, her daughter, has been captured by Bill. If you help us by looking
through the case file. And help us find him. And we're able to save her
life. You get to be transferred to. You know, it's maximum security still,
but it'll be like this. This jail with, like, a view of the woods nearby.
And one week a year, they'll take you to this, like, animal sanctuary or
whatever. And, you know, under heavy guard, you'll be allowed to walk on the beach
and be outside. And like, that's it. That's the best you can get. But if
you do this, you can have those things. And he had said, like, I want
a view. I want to see the outside. Right. And he wasn't even trying in
any of his negotiation. He's not like, I want out of here. He's just like,
I know I'm going to spend the rest of my life imprisoned. I just want
to be able to. I need some prison guys. Like, I want it to be.
You know. We also get a clever girl
from Lecter, which I really. I enjoy. A clever girl in any kind of film
from the 90s, we'll have to. Watch for Jurassic Park. Definitely some clever girl in
that one, too. But, yeah, I mean, him getting into Clarice's life once again.
You know, he finds out that she was on this ranch. And he finds out
that she was disturbed by the. Or that there was, like,
cow and sheep on the ranch. So that's how far he's gotten in learning about
her life so far. Yeah, I think that's right. It was. It was not.
It was horses and sheep. Was a cattle ranch. He said, no, sheep and horses.
And so that's. But that's as far. So. But he keeps getting little bits.
Right, right. Every time they talk, he gets, like, a little more. More info about
that. And so. Yeah. So it was a fake deal. Yes,
as it turns out, we find this out. And. And it was. You know,
I. I don't think Clarice knew at the time, but Crawford had sent her there
with this deal. And he knew. You know, he was just like, well, I had
to try it. You know, they're like, you sent him with a fake deal.
I had to try. And there was a couple elements to it that Lecter was
like, it's very clever that this island Was like some island that's, you know,
quarantined because of. Anthrax or whatever the fuck. Exactly. So Lecter
now is gonna come face to face with the Senator, who is going to,
you know, has an actual deal for him. Right. There's a thing where basically Dr.
Chilton at the hospital had, like, a listening device in Lecter's cell.
So he's listening, and here's what the deal and what the offer is. So he's
the one who contacts the Senator, finds out the deal's fake, and then makes a
real deal with her. And basically is going to bring Lecter to Memphis to talk
to her, which seems like a bad idea. Yeah, seems like. But I'm
not Dr. Chilton. What do I know? I mean. Yeah, but Lecter.
I mean, to their credit, you know, for saying we're bringing this dangerous person
there. They have him locked the fuck down. And this is where we
start to see, like, the iconic restraint devices
that are used on him. The mask. Yeah, yeah. It's like. It's like
he's in, like, a catcher's mask that comes to the middle of where his nose
comes off his face. Face. And is absolutely crushing his nose into his face.
The cartilage on the tip of the nose just being squished super hard. When we
were watching this, genie was like, you know,
beside herself. She's like, he doesn't even have that big of a
nose. She was like, I know a lot of people. She's like, I have a
bigger nose than that. I would get absolutely decimated if I got put in that
thing, you know, so. And then he's in the.
The face mask with the kind of bars over his mouth
and on the dolly and all restrained and stuff. And they wheel him up to
the Senator, and once again, the look on his face. He's not just like,
oh, what's happening to me? He's just kind of like, yeah, wheel me over there.
I have some shit to say. Very in control. Yeah. And he says. I mean,
he initially gives a name, right? This is when he gives. Was it like Lewis
Friend or something like that? Right? So the name he gives for who Buffalo Bill
is. And so they kind of take that. But then he says some real horrible
stuff to the Senator, too. About, like,
breastfeeding Catherine and did it make your nipples hurt or
something? All this kind of stuff. And they're just, like, pissed. And it's just kind
of like. I find it funny sometimes when he does things
like that, because it's like, obviously he has A purpose to it. Yeah.
And I can't. But I don't know if it's like he wants them to do
something or he just wants to unnerve people. You know what I mean? Like,
it's funny. Yeah. It almost seems like he's trying to throw him off balance.
And, like. Yeah, you're a parent and you deal with, like, random strangers
asking you inappropriate things about your kids. And I've definitely had people
ask about my kid, like, was she breastfed? Or whatever. Right, right.
And I'm normally just kind of like, that's none of your fucking business. But imagine
them following that up with it. Toughens your nipples, doesn't it?
It's like, oh, God, get out of here. My note I
wrote in my book at that point was literally, he's such a dick. He's really
bad. He goes, love your suit. So Dr. Chilton,
though, as he was kind of like, signing Lecter out of the just
transporting him, it kind of showed that he had left
his pen somewhere. And then we get to the point where Lecter's
being delivered to the new holding facility in Memphis, and Chilton
has to sign for it. He can't locate his pen. He has to borrow somebody
else's pen. So Lecter has the pen, right? Exactly.
One of the security guards deputies at this place, one of our
favorites, the great Charles Napier. Okay. Yep, yep. Who's Doyle?
Yeah, Lieutenant Doyle. And he. He is in more movies that
have an under 5 rating on IMDb than, like, anyone in history. Like,
it's so funny how many bad movies Charles Napier is in.
But he's also in a bunch of, like, great stuff, too. Yeah. Rambo, First Blood
Part 2, and, like, the Blues Brothers. Blues Brothers, Yeah. I mean, there's. But then
there's also, like, Jury Duty and, like, this is some really bad three.
I think he's in one of the three Ninjas movie, but not the original one
of the sequels. You know what I mean? High Noon
at Mega Mountain, starring Oscar winner Charles Napier.
Comes to visit to visit Lecter and talk. Because basically, she doesn't
believe the name is correct. Like, she believes that she says something to him.
Like, your anagrams are showing. Yeah. She's like, he's not giving us the real information.
Clarice has to go in and, like, sign in to the. And the cops have
all been told, like, nobody sees Lecter. And they're just like, yeah, but. Yeah,
but she actually kind of has to lie to them. Right? Because they say,
like, Chilton has said everything's locked down. She goes, oh, I'm with. I was just
outside with Dr. Chilton just now. Like, I'm with. And like, oh, okay. All right.
They let her in. She talks again. Her being like a woman, smaller,
less of a threat, maybe got her in there. Might have. Yeah, for sure.
And then. So she's talking to Lecter. And they continue, you know, his psychoanalysis
of her past, Right? And so she says, I don't believe the name. I think
you're. I think you're lying. I think it's an anagram. Because she actually says what
the anagram was. I don't remember now, but. But it. You know, she calls him
out, basically, and then he's asking more and more. Iron sulfide is what Lewis friend.
Which is full school's gold. Yeah, there you go. So. So she.
He asks her more about, well, why did you run away? Like, how did that.
What happened? Right. And she. This is when the sort of title
of the film is revealed in some way, right? Where it's. She talks about how
she heard screaming, woke up in the middle of the night, went out to the
barn. And basically they were slaughtering lambs for meat. And the screaming
was just absolutely insane. And she tried to save one of them. She, like,
grabbed one and ran into the woods. But it was so heavy, she couldn't carry
it. She ended up. The sheriff came and found her, you know, on the road,
or the picture took her home. And her uncle was so angry that he sent
her to live in an orphanage. Like, you're not gonna live with us anymore.
You're, like, ruining my lamb farm or whatever the fuck. Crazy. And so he asks,
like, did you think if you saved one that the screaming would stop? Like,
she's like, I still wake up hearing it, or whatever. And he's basically saying,
like, you're trying to silence the lambs by. By saving one. And now you're
trying to do it by saving Catherine. Right? That's what you're doing
right here. And so, yeah, so there's that. But then that's when Chilton comes
in. Along with a bunch of the Memphis police. And they're like, she's not supposed
to be here. And they try to take her away. I think Lecter returns the
case file to her at that point. Yeah. So she's trying to get Lecter to
say the name again. During the scene, like you mentioned earlier with Lecter
and Lecture. He is a professor during this scene.
Breaking stuff down to Clarice is very good.
Yeah. So he's just about to tell her the real name, and then they bust
in and he's just like, well, that's the bed. Instead of just being like,
here's the name. So they try to pull her out, but he hands her her
files back and then gives her the creepiest little, like 1cm
stroke onto her finger. When his finger touches hers, it made. Me like,
like itch. Like, it made my hands feel like. Oh, my God,
so bad. So, yeah, so now I think we're to dinner. Time for lecture.
Time for lecture in so many ways. Yeah. So, like, it's Boyle and one
other Pembri, I think is the other name of the other cop bringing actual meal
to him. And they've got a whole system set up. They're like, they're gonna have
him because he's in this middle of this huge room, it's almost like an auditorium,
but in the middle, they've put up this, like, he looks like Magneto in,
like, the X Men, right? But he's in these bars and it's like this area,
but he's got like a nice desk and chairs and a bed and whatever.
But it's like, know he's in this cell and it's bars all the way around
in the middle of this big room. And so they have him sit with his
hands outside the bar so they can cuff him, you know, to the bars themselves.
But he has a piece of pieces of the pen,
so he's got a little lock pick, basically. I guess those old handcuffs were just
super easy to pick because it never seems to take any effort at all.
I really want to try because. Yeah, it is crazy. We should
do a podcast where we're both handcuffed during the podcast and then to
see who gets out first. I'm not doing that. So. So they
have to present like your. Your Magneto comment is. Is well taken because
I don't think they do the best job of preventing him from getting certain
shit here. Like, his dinner plate had a glass salt and pepper shaker.
I noticed that. Yeah. And I think metal utensils. Yeah. Which is.
Seems bad. I mean, I don't know, man. Or they're
like, Lecter's too polite to not use the cur. Correct fork to kill you with.
They. I have to mention here, they. They actually, they said this was his second
dinner and that he demanded lamb extra rare. So it's
clearly he's thinking about the whole, like, lamb story from Clarice, and that's why he
order lamb chop extra. Rare, something like that. Right? But basically what happens is he
is able to undo his handcuffs and. And handcuffs
boil to the bar. Y. Right. So he's able to get it onto Boyle's wrist
and then onto the bar. So now he's. If not. Not. You know, he's basically
incapacitated is at this point. So he attacks the other cop and just goes straight
to eating his face. Like, just jumps on him and is just. And this chomps
right in one of. The more brutal kind of kills. Like, we've seen a lot
of. We've seen like dead bodies. We've seen people in horrific situations. But like,
there was something very visceral about this scene of Hopkins attacking Pembry or, you know,
Lector attacking Pembry and chewing on his face and coming away with a bloody
mouth. Like all. It's like much more visceral than the movie had been
to this point. Point. But yeah. And then the beating of Boyle
with the nightstick, I mean, it doesn't. Again, it doesn't
show any of him getting hit. It just shows Lecter's face as he's hitting
and it's like, dude, it's almost like orgasmic for him. Or not even orgasmic.
It's just like. Yeah, like getting into a hot tub. Like,
okay, this is how I should be. Like, I feel. I feel good now.
It's. There's almost no reaction, right? He's not.
He's not like grimacing or like. Like, like, oh, I'm doing this. I'm gonna get
you whatever. Almost no reaction, but what little reaction there is. Yeah, it's like,
really? He's like, satisfied. Yeah, exactly. It's just satisfaction,
which is like, I've. Been constipated, needing to murder somebody, and I finally
get to release that. And so. So now then there's this weird thing where they
start seeing the elevator go up and down. I get the sense that he is
on the third floor of a five story building. Yeah. So they've got the.
The cops down on the ground floor. See the elevator. Elevator moving from the third
and going up to fifth instead of coming back down because the guys should be
coming down after delivering his meal. Instead it goes up and they're like, what?
And then they hear a gunshot. Like, what? And then the thing goes back down
to three and they're like, oh, this is so crazy. I Like, nobody went for
the stairwell during that whole thing. They're just sitting there,
Uvalde, just watching. Well, let's see where the elevator
ends up. So it does stop at three and Then they use the stairs.
They do go up the stairs, they come in, and what they are grand greeted
with is Boyle strung up, wrapped in an American flag
above Lecter's cell, which, of course, the door is open and Lecter is not there.
Yeah. And then Pembri, they believe, lying on the floor.
Yeah. And, you know, he's got his uniform, his badges, name tag and everything.
Lying before, bloodied and just whatever. But breathing. Yeah. And so they go, oh,
my God, this one's alive. Like, let's do, you know, whatever. And the way Boyle
is strung up is crazy. I mean, it's like he's, you know,
like an angel kind of. And. And the light is coming through at
a perfect angle. I mean, good on
Lecter for taking the extra time to make sure he properly displayed a
dead body. Now, having seen the movie and then knowing how the plot goes,
everything, whatever, I still really think when I looked at, quote, unquote,
Pembri lying on the floor, it so clearly looks like Anthony Hopkins. It is so
clearly Lecter physically. Yeah. I didn't even notice
at first that he was wearing the face, which we'll get to. But, like,
the initial shot, I mean, that just looks like Anthony Hopkins. But how do they.
Not so beaten up. It was hard. Yeah, exactly. So. So. But, yeah, but basically
they. They put Pembri. They actually cover his face because there's so much damage to
his face, or from what they can tell, they cover it in a towel.
So now they're not looking closely at him. And again, he's wearing Pembri's outfit.
They put him in the elevator to go back down. Yeah. When suddenly blood drips
from the ceiling of the elevator, and they're like,
oh, Lecter must be up there. Right. And this is good cop work.
So I feel like the elevator guys, incompetent. You didn't go for the stairwell.
You waited too long. But now the blood rips. Nobody says anything.
And they do. My favorite thing is where you just, like, use your gun to
point at stuff and gesture towards stuff. Right. And then he was actually on the.
On the. On the walkie talkie, the cop kind of in charges with the one
with the crazy mustache. And he goes, yep, sir. That the best we can tell,
he's up on. He's up on five. That's where he's at. You know, because now
they feel like they know he's there, but they won't want him to hear them
say that. Right. Very smart. Very smart move. Right. One thing I noticed
is all These, like, SWAT dudes that are like, involved, like in. And charging in
on this, they're all wearing black. None of them have any insignia on. They have
no badges, patches on their shoulders. They're not wearing badges or names. It's like the
most bizarre looking, all black outfit, like, very.
They couldn't get a sponsorship for one of the major law enforcement organizations.
I can't imagine the FBI liked that they were involved in this movie at all.
But, like, basically, they look like ice without the, like, bandana masks, basically. But yeah,
so. So they send up dudes to above,
like, I guess to like, the fourth floor to look down in the elevator shaft.
They believe that Lecter is on of top. Top of the elevator. And the.
The cop that. There's two cops that are up kind of
looking down. And the one that's like, talking to him, like, Lecter, like, raise your
hands, whatever. That guy, that actor plays Chief Grady in Super Troopers.
The. The. The. The. The. The City Shenanigans, guys. Well, no, but it's not.
It's not Brian Cox. That's the Shenanigans. He's the. But the. Their enemy cops are
the city cops. So he runs the city cops. Nice. Love that movie. But.
But anyway, so he's like, oh, you know, he's like, okay, shoot him. You know,
so they actually like, shoot his leg. The other cop has got, like, a right.
Turns out cops can do that. Yeah, exactly. And. And so he shoots him
in the leg, but no reaction. Like, no reaction at all. They're like, that's super
weird, right? So they go to. Now we go back down to the elevator and
they open up the, like, hatch in the ceiling. And who falls down,
but not Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, it's Pembry in
Lecter's clothes. And he ain't got no face, right? It is just ripped up.
At which point we cut to the ambulance, right? So this is a great.
Like, the way this is edited is so good too, because we cut to
the ambulance where Lecter's kind of like unwrapping the towel from his
face and unhooking. You know, he's been hooked to some regular IVs and stuff.
And then you see a woman, like, get a phone call back
at Quantico or whatever, just horrified, starts running down the hallway.
And then it is basically, you know, Lecter has taken
out. He killed the ambulance people, killed another guy,
wearing. Wearing Pembry's face. Like, full on crazy.
The way he peels the face off so bad. And like,
the reveal Is you still don't see
because he's still really bloody. Yes. So you know that it's Anthony Hopkins, but it's
not just like a perfect vision of Anthony Hopkins. Sure,
it's demonic. Like, dude, it is. It is nuts. But what
a. What a memorable fucking really cool scene. And almost the
last time we see him. Like, it's basically the last time we see Lecter.
Inside the plot, there's a very brief moment. This is kind of it for
his role in this story, at least. Right. Everything from here on is
Clarice figuring shit out for herself, basically. And so she
is talking to a friend of hers at the FBI and they're sort of chatting
through the different victims and all this stuff. And she said, like, oh, like,
you know, Lecter said, like, you know, that he covets. And what do we covet?
Well, we covet what we see. Like, we can't covet something to know about.
And they realized the first victim, it must have been somebody he knew. Let's go
to the town where the victim was in Belvedere, Ohio, I think they said.
Right. And it's really smart. I will say. I think they gave this first victim
the strangest first name. Frederica. Oh, yeah. Frederica Bevel
Bimmel. Yeah, Frederica Bimmel. Like, what the hell kind of name is Frederica? But they
call her Freddie or whatever. It's fine. But just very strange. I sometimes find myself
taken out of a movie when a character's name is
so odd. Oh, yeah. It's like you talked about the secret of my success.
Like, certain. Certain names are just too exact. Like. Yeah. I mean,
I would have accepted Brantley before Frederica. It's very strange. But no.
Yeah. So there's that and work. Oh, God,
that's right. The river. I really got a lot of really messed up
character names. Add Frederica Bimmel to
the list because. Good God. So Clarice is.
Now she's starting to investigate that. And she goes to Frederica's house
and talks to her dad. Yes, exactly. You know, kind of looks through her.
One of my favorite, like, opening when. When a cop shows up to talk to,
like, a family member of a victim. Yeah. When it just cuts to the family
member saying, I'll tell you the same thing I told everybody else.
I love that. Been through this about 10 times with all the different law enforcement
agencies. Keep. I'll tell you, the other fella came back. Yeah. Right.
So she's looking through and she's given permission to kind of
search Frederica's room. And she comes to this music box,
and for some reason, like, decides, oh, there's probably a false
top in this. I think she could see there's, like, a lining, like, almost like
a velvet lining in the thing. I think she could tell it had been picked
away. Like, it doesn't look solid. It's like. Well, is there a reason that they're.
Oh, look what's back here. It's a bunch of Polaroids. Yeah, right. It's the a.
It's the 1991 version of having, like, you know, nudes on your phone. Right?
Absolutely. But it's Polaroids. Underwear, Polaroids. Yeah. Sort of boudoir
shots. Right. For her. So obviously, there was someone in her life that she was
taking photos for. Someone else had to take these photos, you know, and then give
them to her because it's clear, you know, there were no selfies. Right. On Polaroid.
Somebody had to take the photo. Right. So there's that. Frederica has,
you know, she fits the profile of what they've been discussing of a Buffalo
Bill victim. She's a little on the bigger side. She's, like, in the zone of.
Of. Yeah, I don't think we mentioned that kind of important detail. So what they
found is that Buffalo Bill would keep his victims alive for three days after capturing
them before they would be killed, is what they believe. Right. And the reasoning,
it sounds like he was doing was picking larger women and then starving
them, basically three days so that their skin would get loose,
they would get, like, dehydrated, and they would lose a little bit
of weight, just like, whatever. And then he could skin the mortal recently. Yeah.
What is what it seems like. And so, yeah, this woman fits. Yeah, fits the.
The Bill perfectly. And so they.
I think at this point, we cut back to Bill's house, right. And we go
and we. We see Chris, Catherine with a rope and a
bucket, trying to capture Precious the dog. Right.
Isn't that what we're. Yeah. So. So one thing that Clarice sees before she leaves
Frederica's house is she's looking through the closet and notices, like,
the dress with the pattern cut out of it, and it's clicks with her.
Like he's making himself a woman. A woman suit. Exactly. Yeah. Because the
same. The diamond packs on the patches on the back of this dress match what
was cut out of Frederica's back, basically. Or. No, no, not a friend of
the most recent victim. Most recent victims back. And so, yeah, so that sort of
gives her this clue, like, oh, my God, that's what's happening. That's why he's skinning
them. He's like. He's a seamster. He's right. Putting these things together. And she calls
Crawford that. She's like, hey, like, I know what's happening. And Crawford's
like, shut up, honey. The men have this. Don't worry about it. We're on
our way. Right? And she's like, cool, I'll come meet you. He's like, don't worry,
sweetheart. We got this. And I don't even remember where, like, what. What state they
were in a different state. They weren't even in Ohio. So we're heading towards Calumet
City. Illinois. Illinois, that's right. Home of the Blues Brothers, I believe.
And very nice. And then she said, she's 400 miles away.
Right. So no time to get here. She's not going to get there for the
arrest or whatever. To his credit, he said, you're. You know,
you're one of the main reasons we got here, Starling. We won't forget that.
Like, so he is giving credit to, like, you know, that she was a.
Guy that doesn't necessarily just want to fuck her. A guy who does seem like
he legitimately trying to be professional to some. Extent for this, for the standards of
1991. He's trying to be professional, right. Standards were lower back then.
So this is the scene where now we've got. We're in Buffalo Bill's house.
And this is absolutely one of the most impressive sequences
of. In. In Hollywood history. Crazy. Absolutely amazing misdirection.
Jonathan Demme crushes this entire sequence. So we have this combination
of cuts back and forth. One set of cuts is to Buffalo Bill's
place. So it's Bill, he's in the basement. Catherine's there. And it's either him and
he is putting on makeup. He's wearing. You could call it a wig, but it's
clearly a woman has been scalped. And he has kept, you know, the. The skin
and the. And the hair, and he's put it on. And this is the whole,
like. What is that song? Goodbye, horses. Goodbye, horses. Thank you. While Catherine is
trying to lure Precious into the well. Yep. But while we're cutting to
her, into him in this thing, we're also then cutting to this establishing
shot of the house. But we've never seen the outside of Buffalo Bill's house.
We have no idea what it looks like. This is. This is where the FBI
is showing up. This is where they. So they got the whole, like, you Know
the flower delivery van. Like. Right. But it's like. And Clarice has also.
Sorry, in the meantime, has said, like,
there's a woman likes, I need to talk to this person.
Because she found that Frederica used to do. Oh, she did
custom work for this woman. For this woman. I can't remember the name of that
woman now, but. But basically, like, it. It's somebody that Frederica worked for,
who she was over there a lot. And he. She's wondering, you know, okay,
is this. Can I talk to this woman? And maybe does she have an adult
son or some other male person who lives with her? Maybe that person would be
a suspect kind of thing. So those are, like, the four things. We're going back
and forth between all this. Cutting back and forth. And it's all intense and very
tension building and all this stuff. So what we see is. Is a few things
happen. And again, the ordering is a little fuzzy to me now, even though I
just watched this the other day. But Catherine does capture Precious at some
point. Bill freaks out about that and goes to
get his gun, which is upstairs in the house. Yeah. Then the
doorbell rings. And so he has to, like, go. Or that's when he goes up.
It's at the door. While the FBI is, like, ringing the doorbell at the house.
They're at. The doorbell is ringing and Bill's basement. We're right there. There. But then
we see Bill. Before we jump in, just a couple details real quick here.
Because when. When Catherine is down in the well, she's trying to kind of fish
for the dog. Yeah. And at first, you know, she finally sees
that. That the dog has followed this bone, and she's there at the top,
and Catherine gives a yank to the bucket, and the bucket just comes down.
The dog doesn't get pulled. That's right. She's. And she's so devastated.
The acting that she's doing there. The other thing that she's doing is as she's
trying to call the dog, she's, like, trying and failing to whistle,
which I feel like is just so, like, oh, my God, dude.
Like, she's so desperate. She's trying to. Like, I. I think it's just really well
done to show that overcome her. But then she finally ends up getting Precious
down. It doesn't really show Precious, like, falling. No. But into it. But she gets
Precious in the world. She does have the dog at one point because she yells
up to Bill, like, I got your. I got your dog. You dogs hurt.
So Bill also, while he's Doing dressing up and singing
along to this song. He steps back at a certain point after doing the would
you fuck me, fuck me? And then does one of the most iconic dick tucks
of all time. And the reason I have to bring this up is a.
I mean as an actor, to be able to be
that creepy again is amazing.
But this is a movie that started getting around among my friends in
college a bit and, and I remember going to a college friend's wedding and
being woken up by my friend who bashes
on our hotel door. I open the door and he's standing there in a robe
with a little Bose speaker and he's playing Goodbye
Horses. And then all of a sudden he just drops his robe and he's fully
tucked and does the thing for 30 seconds and then moves
to the next room. He did this to all of our friends at the hotel
at that point wedding. And now he is a well respected surgeon in the Dallas
area. So I just want to say never give up on your dreams, folks.
Absolute legend. That's awesome. That's amazing.
Yeah. So, okay, so all the tension is built up. So now we have.
Bill's going to answer. Going answer the door. Yeah, yeah, we have. The FBI's coming
up to a door. Is coming up to a door. And we don't know that's.
See, that's a real important key. We don't know where Starling is yet. So we
haven't seen Clarice go to a door. She's going to some. We have, we were
told she's going to go to a house. We haven't seen her in. These cuts
back and forth. But every time they cut between the FBI outside the house,
they're at ringing the doorbell to deliver these flowers, right. We see this like
really horrific looking like light and buzzer going off in Bill's basement to tell him
his doorbell's ringing. So he does go up and when he answers the door,
it's Clarice. Right. Not the FBI. That's where we see her. And that's
like a huge shock. Then we see the FBI bust in to the house.
They're at. House was empty. That's right. They go in the house. That's right.
And so Clarice now is talking to. She doesn't know this, but talking about Fleet
asking about this Mrs. Lipscomb or the name. Oh, Mrs.
Litman. Okay, I do have that. Yeah. They go Litman and asking, he says,
oh yeah, I bought the house, you know, a couple years ago from her.
Like. Yeah. So I don't know anything about her other than that, you know,
kind of thing. I think the reality, of course, is that he is her son.
I think. I think that's what we're being shown here because she.
At some point, Clarice ends up. Up. Shit. Goes upstairs or.
Or. Or into a bathroom at some point and like, sees a corpse in a
tubs. But I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but I think that's the idea is
that like he has like let his mother rot or maybe it is some random
old woman, but I get the feeling that like he. So anyway,
so she. He's looking for a card cuz he's like, oh, maybe she left contact
info or something like that, right? Or no, her son. He. She. She has a
son. I'll see if I can get her info. She has. She. Yeah. And she's
says, you know, asks about Frederica
and he goes, she great big fat person. Oh, that's right. You're a great big
fat person. God. But yeah.
And then as Clarice is kind of looking around the apartment, it's like sewing
stuff. Yep. Moth. Moth appears out of place with
the. Death'S head thing that she has been told exists only in Eastern Asia
or whatever. Crazy. So this is when I wrote in my notebook she should call
for backup. Because when he realizes that she knows and she draws her gun,
he runs. And we know he's got like a hand cannon, like an absolute huge
handgun that he's got. And she just follows him. And I'm thinking to myself,
like, you can't get local PD there. Maybe it would take too long. I don't
know. But like in a situation like this where,
yes, you're trying to save that victim, don't get me wrong, you don't want Catherine.
First of all, she doesn't know Catherine's alive or not. Right? Okay. And. And the
FBI has kind of been. They say we want him for murder, not kidnapping.
Right? That's what he had said. So it was kind of like, we don't really
think she's alive right now. Right? So. So there's that. Plus they can tie him
to all these other murders, right? So there's that he's not going anywhere because
all his project is there. Like, he can't go anywhere,
he can't relocate. Yeah. So back
up, call the local police, tell them what's going on. Watch the
house. You know what I mean? Instead, she just drives. Head first.
Head first goes in, of course, makes for a better movie. When she gets down
to the basement, into the well. She says the funniest thing to
me when she says, katherine Marks, she goes, yes, I'm with the FBI.
You're safe. In what fucking
world is this chick safe? She's very. I'm sorry, she's very confident,
for sure. We. When she first
kind of pulls her gun on Buffalo Bill, so he's getting
her this business card, but we see that his gun's right around the corner.
And she pulls her gun. She's like, put your hands up. The way that he
kind of litters those business cards is just adds
such a creepy element to it. He doesn't drop it immediately. It's just kind of
fluttering down to the ground almost like little moss or butterflies
and shit. But just little motion that they add to this make it.
And it was good because I bet you, you know, whether or not it was
super conscious by the character of the time, you know, it's very distracting. Right.
She's going to notice that, which is going to give him that split second he
needs to bolt around the corner. Whether that was fully intentional or not,
either way, it absolutely works. And so then we're given one of the coolest
scenes ever, which is they're down in the basement together. So they're not up in
the house where there's windows. And he is able to shut off all the power
and all the lights. Okay. Okay. It is true pitch black.
Like, I don't know how often I've been in like a true pitch black room.
There's always some little LED going off or something somewhere. Right. I have to like
cover things in my bedroom with like bandanas at night or something to make sure
they don't glow. So, you know, there's like bugs and shit, pitch black. But also
all these creatures around. Well, and you have, you know, first of all, you know,
there's a well that you don't want to fall into. Yeah. You don't know what
else is down there. I mean, it's absolutely terrifying to be that dark and in
a totally unfamiliar place. And of course, the. When he kidnapped
Catherine, the night vision goggles, they come back into play. So now
we see his view. This. I love this scene too. We see his
view through the night vision goggles of Clarice fumbling around in
the dark. And here's the. This is the hubris of serial killers. Right. If he
had just raised that gun and shot her, he could have done it without her
reacting. But he decides to follow her for a while. Yeah. And kind of of
menace, because it's. Too thrilling to watch her suffer because, I mean,
another great, great bit by Jodie Foster is the way
that she's kind of panicking in a situation where you're fully blind here,
you can't see what's going on. Trying to hear composed. But you also have,
like. It's crazy. And her hand is. The hand with the gun is shaking super
hard, which makes perfect sense. It's all very much.
Whatever study Jodie Foster did ahead of this is sort of like. Like,
capture. What would it be like to react to the
situation. She did a fantastic job. Obviously, there's no. Nobody says this isn't a fantastic
acting job, so. So, yeah, so he is following her around until finally
we see again, kind of seeing his pov, the. His gun raise up.
I guess one of the big downsides of it is that it's got a big,
heavy hammer you have to cock back to. To prime the trigger. So as he
does that, she reacts perfectly. Hears the cocking gun, turns around, just,
blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam. Now, he also fires at her, but doesn't
hit her. Yeah, he hits like a. Breaks a window, so a little light starts
to spill into the room. Right, Exactly. But she also talks about, like, I think
she gets, like, a gunpowder or like some kind of like, muzzle flash on her
face. Like she's got a little. She's got a little injury, a little tiny one.
But, like, nothing big, whatever. But, yeah, she blows him away. And then, yeah,
there's light in the room and he does the full, like, gurgle, burble, like,
the blood coming up. I mean, he, you know, got. He. He is gone.
Yeah. And then it's like one of the things I thought of at this point
was like, looking. Just looking back after I was watching the scene and looking back
over just the last sequence, starting with her investigation
of Frederica's home. From that point on,
she really stumbled upon this. You know what I mean?
Yes, it was some good detective work, but it was kind of lucky
as shit that that's who she got. I mean, even with her correct interpretation
of some of the messages Lecter was giving her, it was like. You got that
exactly right the first time. Like, I felt the same way about the yourself self
storage thing. That was like, oh, okay. I guess she's just brilliant.
But, yeah, that's. That is the sort of end of the Buffalo
Bill saga, right? And Catherine is rescued. She. She walks
out holding precious, which is kind of funny. Like, was that a. Maybe that was
A good trauma bond maybe that. I mean, Precious needs a new home. Yeah.
I mean, she's clearly adopting Precious. Like the way she talks about the dog,
it's like, no, no dog's mind now, like kind of thing. So one thing I
would love in a scene like this is I would love the dog to
be wrapped in a little foil blanket out of the trauma, you know. Yeah,
the little like I want like one of those for. For a dog there.
Yeah. So. So yeah. So Starling now is.
Is graduating from the FBI academy and there's kind of a.
A little after party celebration type thing. And I
don't know the exact how this time is passing because it
really seems like she went straight from killing Buffalo Bill to
taking her finals the next day and then graduating the next day because her wounds
are still fresh and everything. That's true. Yeah. She's got the. Again, the thing on
her cheek from the muzzle flash, the gunpowder or whatever. And so there's that.
Maybe you get automatic graduation from doing something like that. I mean, she did solve
of like the world at the time the country's biggest serial killer case. Right.
So I mean, that's got to be worth something. Worth something for sure. Yeah.
So but, yeah. And then. But she's told she has a phone call and
so she briefly talks to Crawford, but then she has to. He's like, don't forget
about your phone call. So she goes, and who is calling her wearing the
worst wig in the history of the world? Hannibal Lecter from.
I don't know if we know where he is. The Caribbean. I can't tell if
it. I heard them speaking French. I mean, it seems somewhere like Algeria
maybe somewhere in Africa or Haiti or something. I feel like they
were more like in the, you know, I don't know if the Dominican Republic,
French, French guinea or something. There's definitely
like French or, you know, was it. It's probably not Saint Barts, but there's like
the French. Saint Bart's is a French sign of Dutch. There's a bunch of the
Caribbean nations do have French speakers. He was there some in that area, right.
A lot of palm trees, crap like that. So he's there and he basically.
I love the line. He. Well, first of all, he tells her, I'm not coming
after you. Yeah, the world's a more interesting place with you in it. I'm not
coming after you. Which is. I don't know if you can trust him, but I
feel like you can. Like, I feel. I feel like he would be honest.
About that, well, at least now she knows, like, okay, this guy could have
killed anybody that he wanted to kill. So I. I must not be one of
those people. It must, right? If he wanted me dead, I'd be dead. Sort of
the thought. I think it's probably accurate. And then he says, like, I have to
go. I'm having an old friend for dinner as Dr.
Chilton. Yeah. He's watching Chilton deboard a plane and start
walking around there. And then he slowly, you know, starts following him,
like you said, with the wig that looks like someone went in and said,
hey, can I get a Mark Davis wig? Oh, God. Exactly. Pumpkin pie.
It's really. Yeah, dude, this is a pumpkin pie motherfucking haircut.
But, yeah, so we're kind of left with that. So. So the main,
like, killer in this story, Buffalo Bill, is done, but Lecter is
still out there in the world and still has full plans of, you know,
doing what he does. That's the interesting thing about this, Right. As a crime story,
the crime being investigated in the story is solved,
but only by allowing a far more dangerous
person out into the world. Right. Like, far more dangerous than Buffalo
Bill is Hannibal Lecter. But that is the Silence of the Lambs. Yeah.
This awesome. Great conversation. Great movie.
I mean. Yeah. So I guess with ratings, you want me to kick
her off, since this was my selection here. Your pick. Go for first. Yeah.
So watching it again, it doesn't lose a thing. Yeah. I really am
impressed by everything about this movie. And again, it's really driven by two actors.
Sure. And they did such an incredible job. The supporting cast is
good as well, but, I mean, without the dynamic
between Jody Foster and Anthony Hopkins, this wouldn't have been as effective. And some of
the. These things that are so disturbing, the things that Gene Siskel didn't like about
this movie, probably might have affected me more if it wasn't just such a good
movie, you know? So, like, yeah, it's. It's very disturbing subject
matter. There's very upsetting imagery and stuff. And just thinking about it
really is tough. But it is so well done.
And the characters are just perfectly done,
and you feel like you understand them, like, outside of the context of the film
and everything. So, yeah, I mean,
I'm with the world on this one. And I think it was certainly deserving
of a best picture, a best director. And this is a year that, like,
Terminator 2 came out. Cape Fear, I think Beauty and the Beast was up against
it. Bugsy, jfk,
a lot of great stuff. So, yeah, I mean, in strong competition. It held up.
It still holds up. This movie does not feel dated at all. I mean,
there's always technological things you. You can point to with a crime movie where it's
like if they had a cell phone or whatever, but it doesn't feel old.
And. Yeah, I'm giving this one a five out of five. I'm with. I'm with
everyone on this one. Yeah. So, I mean, kind of not much to say outside
of what you said there. I mean, yeah, well acted, well written. The source material,
obviously, is fantastic. But the. But the adaptation is great. Jonathan Demme kills it
directing this. Like I said, that whole sequence, the misdirection of the
FBI going to what they think is the killer's house and then Buffalo Bill dealing
with him. That cutting back and forth and is just so well done. And it's
so convincing, even knowing the reality of, like,
I go into that sequence going, oh, this is where they do the misdirection.
It was still, like, tense and really well done, even though I know
that they're not at the right house. You know, this is a really interesting thing.
Yeah, acting's fantastic. Everything in this movie is fantastic. You know, except for some of
the subject matter, which obviously is really brutal. It's a really brutal movie.
But what could you possibly ask for from this movie that it doesn't give you?
Yeah, that's the thing that, for me, makes it a five out of five.
And it's like two hours on the daughter. It's like two minutes. So it's not
2:45 like it. It is a watch, you know, perfect date
night. Valentine's Day. Exactly.
Yeah. So, yeah, you're a five. I'm a five. The two dads are 10 out
of 10 on the silence. We love our horror movies. We've been, you know,
banging out some good rate. I mean, we've had some great horror movies. That's true.
I mean, that's. I noticed my own ratings. I gave a five to Nightmare on
Elm Street. I gave a five to the Thing. Yeah. So. And then now this
one as well. So cool. What's our next five? Right.
Yeah. So. Well, I mean, I don't know about that because I'm gonna wrap up
Shocktoberfest with a little bit of a different thing.
And here's something that I've yet to do. This will be our 34th episode,
I believe. Nice. When we. No, 33rd. 33rd episode. When we go. Lost track of
a second. We're gonna do a movie that I've never seen. And I
believe you've never seen. We'll get to it. Second, I tell you what it is.
But like, I'm pretty sure you've never seen this one and I haven't and yet
I'm picking it. And the reason is, is that I know the backstory behind it.
There is like a lore around this movie. This episode will come out a couple
days before Halloween this year. Okay. When this episode drops, the one
that we're talking about to talk about. And so it just felt really fitting and
it involves somebody that we have already done a few movies of and absolutely adore.
So we're going to go and check out a movie that John. John Carpenter was
the producer for and wrote part of the score. He like co wrote the score.
We love a good John Carpenter score, right? Absolutely.
This though is a misfire on so
many levels. This movie was. It was an attempt to take John Carpenter's
Halloween series and turn it into an anthology about Halloween.
Okay. Rather than a series about a serial a
killer named Michael Myers. Right. So this is Halloween 3 season of the Witch from
1982. Michael Myers does not appear in this movie. Everybody who
saw this movie in the theater in 1982 went to it assuming Michael Myers
would appear at some point. He never does because he's not in the movie.
It is a batshit crazy story
about a maniacal mask maker trying to
take over the world by killing as many children as possible in Halloween night.
That's the plot basically, that I, as I understand it of the movie.
I've never seen it. So we are going to both take a first look.
I'm assuming. I know I've never. I'm very intrigued. Most people have not seen.
Yeah. So we are going to to take a pair of first looks at Halloween
3 season of the Witch next week to wrap up Shocktoberfest.
Cannot wait. I don't know you. You'll either be
thanking me or hating me. Get together to talk about this one. So. All right.
That about wraps it up. So if you like what you and we hope you
do, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a five star
review. It really helps new folks find the show. If you want to drop us
a line, share your thoughts on an episode, tell us what we got wrong or
suggest a movie we should do next like our friend Jeff did. We talked at
the beginning of the episode. You can do so at the show@2dads1movie.com.
That's the number two and the number one. You can also follow us on Instagram
@2dads1movie. Once again, this has been the Silence of the Lambs, another episode
of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve. And I'm Nic. Thank you so much for
listening. We'll catch you next week. Thanks,