Transcript

Rita(Groundhog Day)

I'm sorry, what was that again?

Phil (Groundhog Day)

I'm a God.

Rita(Groundhog Day)

You're God?

Phil (Groundhog Day)

I'm a God. I'm not the God I don't think.

Rita(Groundhog Day)

Because you survived a car wreck.

Doris (Groundhog Day)

You folks ready to order?

Phil (Groundhog Day)

I didn't just survive a wreck. I wasn't just blown up yesterday. I have been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted and burned.

Rita(Groundhog Day)

Oh, really?

Phil (Groundhog Day)

Every morning I wake up without a scratch on me. Not a dent in the fender. I am an immortal.

Doris (Groundhog Day)

Special today is blueberry waffles.

Steve

It's two Dads one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit around and shoot the about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nick Brianna. Hey, welcome to the first episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I am Steve Paulo and I'm joined by Nick Brianna. That's right. Hey, how's it going? Everybody out there? So this is it. We've decided we're going to start a movie podcast. Why? First reason, Main reason, there are none. As far as I'm aware, no one has ever done a podcast about movies. So because I know movies, you know, I'm not sure if everyone listening is aware. They're very popular entertainment form and the fact that no one has put a mic in front of their faces and talked about movies to date is shocking to me. It was a clear hole to fill in the podcasting world. So here we are. We're gonna do this today. So a little bit about ourselves. So first of all, we're doing this movie, excuse me, this movie podcast together. Because what? We like movies. We're both dads. That's why it's called 2 dads 1 movie. There's two of us. We're gonna talk about one movie each episode, not one movie for like the whole show. That would probably get redundant. We're gonna talk about a movie every episode. So yeah, that's what we're gonna do. And so yeah, my name is Steve and I am a dad of two. I'm 45 years old and it's super weird to think of myself as a middle aged dad, a father of two and 45. Because a middle aged dad is what my dad should be. He's in his 70s. But I still think, well, that's what a middle aged dad is. And I of course am a 20 year old trapped in this body. So that's, that's why I'm appropriately part of 2Dads1 movie.

Nic

Yeah. And you know, Steve and I have actually known each other since maybe the 8th grade or something like that. Which is wild to think about because that was, you know, eight years ago on the timeline of us being 20. Exactly. My name is Nick. I am a also 45 year old dad. I have one girl who's 13 now. I consider myself an expert in this field. I have seen over a dozen movies. That's right. You're a lot. Are you sure?

Steve

I mean, did you go back and count?

Nic

I, I did. I, I'm pushing a baker's dozen. So, you know, we're really, we're really hoping to eclipse that mark in 2025.

Steve

We're gonna get you there. We're gonna get you to help me, I promise.

Nic

I hope so, man. But yeah, I love watching movies, love talking shit. And I think this will be a lot of fun to kind of talk through some favorites, some non favorites and see where it goes.

Steve

Yeah, very good stuff. Cool. That is the concept of the show. That's what we're gonna do. We're gonna talk about movies and at the end of each episode we'll let you know what the next movie we're gonna talk about is. Because I think it's important to let all of you at home play along with us and watch the movies we're gonna watch and so forth and so on. And I think for the most part those movies are even going to be a surprise to each other. We're gonna like take turns and pick the next movie as we go along. Cool. All right, well, let's talk about the movie that we're talking about today. Nick, what movie are we talking about today?

Nic

All right, today, as it is currently in real life time, February 2nd, when we're recording this, and we knew that this was the day of recording, we decided to be super original, go with the movie Groundhog Day, Bill Murray Classic from 1993.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

Something that is pretty well known in the culture. I think it's, it's something that, you know, people are familiar with the concept of it. It was kind of original at the time. A lot of good gags in there and a movie that I think most people have seen at one time or other.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

It was great to, great to reconnect with this one. It had been a while.

Steve

Absolutely. How long had it been for you think since you'd seen it before this last week?

Nic

Maybe I, maybe five years. I think I watched with my daughter when she was little, but before then it had been a long time. How about you?

Steve

I think, I think, yeah, four or five years I don't think that this isn't one I've shown my kids yet. And actually after rewatching it, I don't think I will for a while. We can get into that later. But no, yeah, it had definitely been a while. I think this is a kind of. This is a movie I probably watched several times in college when I thought that I was the world's next great philosopher. And in reality I was just drinking a lot of Mad Dog 2020. But this was the kind of piece of popular culture that I thought was like, worthy of. Of thought and dedicating, you know, gray matter too, because I was an insufferable little piece of shit. So. But yeah. So let's run down some of the basics. What about the movie here? Release date? It was released on February 11, 1993. Kind of amazing to me that they missed actually releasing it before Groundhog Day that year, but that's just really strange. But yeah. Running time of 101 minutes. This film was directed by Harold Ramis, the great. The late, great Harold Ramis, who I adore. Written by Ramis and the original story writer and screenwriter, Danny Rubin, obviously we know. Starring Bill Murray and Andy McDowell scores 94% on Rotten Tomatoes. The critics loved it, that's for sure. An 8.0 on IMDb, which is pretty.

Nic

High for a comedy movie on IMDb. That's very solid, I think.

Steve

You know, Citizen Kane and Casablanca are like low nines, but Nothing gets a 10 on IMDb. So it also won some awards. I'm not going to go through every one that it won, but it did win a few. The 1994 Saturn Awards. If you're not familiar, Saturn Awards are for pieces of entertainment. Films in particular in the kind of Fantasy, Science Fiction, etc categories. Andy McDowell won Best Actress in 1994 for that at the 1994 BAFTA Awards. That's the British association of Film and Television Actors. The best original screenplay went to this film to Ruben and Ramis. And then the 1993 British Comedy Awards. Oh. Gave this film best comedy. Best comedy film of the year. On a $14.5 million budget, it earned $71.1 million gross worldwide. That's an almost 5x multiplier, which makes this an unabashed, undeniable hit. But I gotta ask, and Nick may want to start here. Why did I think. And apparently why did the British Comedy Awards think this was a comedy? Because after rewatching it, it's kind of dark. Was this a comedy?

Nic

It's funny. Things happen in it.

Steve

Agreed.

Nic

Sure, it. I will get into it more. But I mean, like, a couple sentence summary of it would be that this guy is able to, over time, develop an incredible, like, power imbalance in this relationship with a woman, to eventually finally be able to take advantage of her and have her fall in love with him in one day. Yeah. So that's an interesting point, because Bill Murray's in it, so it must be a comedy, right?

Steve

Exactly. And Harold Ramis directed it, so it must be a comedy. Right? Did Ramis. I don't think he ever directed anything that you wouldn't call it comedy, of course.

Nic

But there's a lot of darkness in this movie. And I think that's probably why it's a good Bill Murray, because it's, like, a little bit different and.

Steve

Right.

Nic

He's able to, like, be more of an asshole than most comedic actors are. True to, like. I mean, Chevy Chase might have pulled it off, too, but you would have wanted to be in the cast with him. I guess, at that point.

Steve

I mean, Murray. The fact that, I mean, he had to stretch. Right. I mean, to play an egocentric entertainment professional, Bill Murray really had to go outside his comfort zone.

Nic

He really did. A guy who every day is the same for him and he acts like there's no consequence. I think he really had to dig deep.

Steve

I'm not sure where in the well he had to go, but he had to go deep. Speaking of actors, I just want to mention Danny Rubin originally wrote the script with Kevin Klein in mind, and I love Kevin. Klein, obviously would have been a very different movie. Yeah, that was also before Ramis was attached. There was a time when Reuben was shopping the script to other studios who would have potentially gone a slightly different direction with it. When Ramis got a hold of it, he said he liked it. He, you know, he kind of thought it was a great concept. He just didn't think it was funny enough. Hence the not really rewrite. But Reuben and Ramis then got together to kind of finish the screenplay. And then Ramis actually originally wanted, if I read it correctly, Michael Keaton. And then Keaton passed. And so. And then in later years, Keaton, when asked about an interview, admitted that he regretted it. In retrospect, at the time, he said he didn't get it. He read the screenplay. He's like, I just don't get it. And if you think about the timing of this, this is shortly after Batman Returns. Like, Keaton has been like, you know, an action hero for a few years at this point. This is not Mr. Mom. Gung Ho Michael Keaton, you know, so. And wait, was he in Gung Ho or am I just mixing up his character? Yeah, I think they're both auto movies about the auto industry, so forgetting. But yeah. Anyway, yeah, so he regretted it later and then Ramis and Murray got together and obviously the rest is history.

Nic

Okay, I. I also saw this. This turned up when I was reading about it that I don't know if it was Ramis or the original writer's intent that they thought that they wanted Tom Hanks for the role, which is always. Yeah, it's always funny to read that though, where it's like, oh, really? You wanted the number one actor in the world.

Steve

You wanted.

Nic

Is the number one most famous guy in your movie. Oh, darn. Like that didn't work.

Steve

Yeah, that's because this would have been right around Forrest Gump. Right. Or close to him. This was 93, filmed in 92. I think Forrest Gump was 94. I mean, this was Hank prepping for.

Nic

Phil Philadelphia or something around that.

Steve

The height of his. Of his powers. I mean, not that he's really regressed at all. He's still, you know, the guy in Hollywood in so many ways. Okay, let's get into a couple of things. There was a couple things that I. That I kind of noticed from the beginning rewatching this. So the movie starts and we get these. These fluffy clouds and I swear to God, we're not going to walk through every frame of the film. But I just wanted to mention this. POLKA MUSIC PLAYS and in my head I had remembered the theme song of the movie being that I'll be your weatherman, sort of early 90s, you know, pop rock song that play a little bit later. And I realized this is maybe going back to. I mean, Murray has history in snl. Ramos was part of Second City. You know, they've got that background in television. It was a cold open, right? Well, you don't see movies with cold opens that much. But. But it really kind of was. Right. Like we. We sort of got some credits and then we went into Phil on the job and then we got more credits and then he drive to punk and then more credits. Very strange interspersing of opening credits and scenes. And I found it remarkable.

Nic

Would you think of that?

Steve

I did.

Nic

I forgot to look this up. I'm your weatherman song. Is that. That's very Randy Newman coded. If it's not Randy Newman, it's not Randy Newman.

Steve

I don't have in front of me who it is. It's Not Randy Newman because their guy had slightly fewer marbles in his mouth than he was singing. But. But it is that style. It is very. Like I wrote down that it was that the song screams 90s Rom Com. Yeah, it's very much in that. In that area.

Nic

I miss that. I like the era of the custom written song just to play during the beginning and then the one that would play at the credits and everything like that. It's just kind of a lost art. Just these cheesy throwaway songs. No one's ever. That's not a theme for any proms.

Steve

No.

Nic

No one's a I'm your weatherman first dance at their wedding. Right. But it's just. It serves its purpose there, you know?

Steve

Right. Well, you know, the. The Isaac Newton School of Meteorology. Maybe their prom. Yeah. I feel like. I feel very similarly about Bat Dance by Prince. You know, it was one of the great, you know, movie only type.

Nic

It was kind of a weird stoop by Prince. Right. You owe some money to Tim Burton or what's going on there? Prince. I mean, it was cool. That movie looked cool and. Yeah, it did.

Steve

We'll have to hit that movie at some point in this for sure. Yeah. So. Yeah. I don't know. Where do you want to go with this? Do you want to. What do you want to talk about?

Nic

Well, I guess, you know, the movie, it's interesting because it doesn't really follow a linear, like a time progression other than, you know, in real time because it keeps repeating the same day. So it's just Phil Connors turning from an irredeemable asshole.

Steve

Oh, my God.

Nic

Into an irredeemable asshole who'd figured out how to fake. I don't know, like. I don't know. But we'll get to it at the end. But I don't know how much I bought the transformation.

Steve

Right. Yeah.

Nic

But I think that. Is this the first Multiverse movie?

Steve

I was thinking that. Well, and I don't think it is. And let's just jump into that because. Yeah, I was thinking about. Okay. I was specifically thinking about it when we get to the point in the movie now we're jumping ahead, we'll come back. But when he's killing himself and we're led to believe, you know, because later he talks about all the ways in which he's died. Let's say it's hundreds. Right. Of. Of these days, these. These mythical days that end in him dying. And I thought, so are those creating alternate universes wherein he's dead and Therefore, anyone who witnessed, anyone who had to hit him with the car or find his dead body is, like, traumatized forever. Yeah, I don't think so. Because thinking about it then, it's clear that the days in which he doesn't die, nobody's. Nothing's going on like. Like it, I guess, unless his return to the beginning of the day is spawning a new universe every single time. But that seems unlikely, or it seems certainly unintended if that were the case. But, yeah, there is an element of, like, multiversity to this, because if you.

Nic

Think about it in that context, you do think about, oh, these guys that he goes at and they get arrested.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Oh, what happens to them and.

Steve

Right.

Nic

But yeah, I tried to limit it to thinking like, no, this is pre. Everything's a multiverse. The good old 90s, where there's one universe and he just keeps repeating the same day.

Steve

Yeah, I think so. On that first day, the first. I guess maybe the real day before we know there's something wrong. I want to point out, since my teens, so this came out, we were about 13, give or take. And since my teens, I have been just deathly afraid of running into someone on the street who I don't remember but should. And I completely, 100% blame Stephen Tobolowski for that. Like, running into Ned Ryerson and just being deer at a headlights, completely unaware of who he is and having this really awkward interaction with him is like. That has stuck with me. I think that's, like, seared into my brain. It's like, either remember everyone that you've ever been around or just stay home. Just stay home. Don't go anywhere.

Nic

Staying home works.

Steve

It does.

Nic

Avoiding it was interesting. The Ned Ryerson. You know, in the 90s, the guy from high school that you don't ever want to see again was. Was written as, like, a dorky nerd kind of guy. And now it's absolutely. A guy who's still wearing the varsity.

Steve

Right.

Nic

You know, he's got the.

Steve

The faded white South Carolina Gamecocks hat on and like, yeah, for sure that's the guy.

Nic

But, yeah, the Ned Ryerson. I mean, it does you. We've all had our Ned Ryerson moments before, and I think the trick is just match somebody's enthusiasm and hope they're wearing a name badge or some. Some way you can, like, you know, detective yourself into figuring out some evidence.

Steve

It is interesting that in today's day and age, this seems less likely that you would have somebody who would recognize you, but you would have had like zero kind of interaction with. At all over social media or anything else in the intervening years since high school. So maybe this is the kind of thing we think about. You know, how this movie would be different because people have cell phones or whatever. Right?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

This one would be where it's like, well, you know, if. If Phil and Ned had been keeping up with each other over even a bit over Facebook, this wouldn't. This wouldn't really have been so awkward.

Nic

And there's no insurance salesman that I've ever come across that wasn' aggressively soliciting to me.

Steve

Like every moment just ridiculous. Like. Yeah, but definitely. And I think insurance. I think just in general. Are there insurance salesmen anymore?

Nic

I. There.

Steve

There are. I don't know how.

Nic

It's like travel agents.

Steve

No, there's no such thing as a travel agent anymore. You got to be kidding me.

Nic

I. I work with a couple clients that are travel agents. I mean, it's kind of. It's kind of a tax shelter business at this point. So if you have a good income and then you say, oh, we want to take vacations and write them off, you're a travel agent.

Steve

Yeah, so. So, yeah. So they. They get through the first day. You know, Phil's relatively okay. You know, obviously he's a. He's a jerk. So, you know, Rita is not happy with his. His performance and everything that much, but they move on. And they go to head back to Pittsburgh and they pull up to what looks like an overpass or some kind of tunnel and there's like a jack knifed big rig or whatever. And you know, the cop, you know, this is pretty good line, right? You know, buddy, you can turn around, go back to Punxsutaw. You can freeze to death at your choice. And he's. I'm thinking, you know, very funny, but is there really no other road to Pittsburgh?

Nic

I. That's what I didn't understand. And I wondered during the course of his imprisonment in this day, did he ever try to get like a small plane or hel. Just anything to Truman show his. His way out of this area?

Steve

I feel like he must have. He clearly had no problem stealing cars. So. Yeah, yeah, he.

Nic

You know, I think there's other ways out. And you know, maybe it just.

Steve

It just seems like. I know. Look, it's a movie. We always. We have to suspend disbelief.

Nic

Sure.

Steve

Right. That's like the whole point. You see, the entire premise of the movie is so ridiculous and crazy and out of left field that picking on this geographic anomaly seems a little Petty. But I do. I just need to mention I thought it was odd when they were pulled.

Nic

Up aerial maps on Satani. And let me show you what I found.

Steve

I didn't. I don't know why I didn't. I had my iPad right there. I could have just done that. But no, I didn't. And. But it. But it's like there. There had to be other roads or, you know, at least, I don't know, other towns to go back to. It was a bit. Did seem a bit silly.

Nic

I enjoyed. There are a couple. A couple classic tropes that showed up in this movie. And I think it was on that first day. And these are. There's things that come up now and you're kind of sick of hearing it. You roll your eyes and you don't realize that back in 1993, this was a pretty fresh. Right. So him being very particular about his coffee order. He doesn't want the coffee for the urn at the bed and breakfast. He needs an espresso or. And then he makes a comment that the groundhog tastes like chicken. Which at the time, that was.

Steve

That was a bad comedy.

Nic

Right. But yeah, those have been worn through pretty well. But it was nice to see them in their youth.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Thriving.

Steve

That's fair. It does feel like, you know, you can't make jokes about airplane peanuts now, but. Oh, my God, when Seinfeld first started doing it, seriously, it was a riot. It was great. So. So, you know, sometimes it's good to go back to the. Back to the originals on that. On that. I guess, technically, yeah, it was the end of the first day or the night or something. Have you, Nick, in your life ever once stepped fully into a shower and just turned the water on?

Nic

This was killing me.

Steve

And because never in my life have I done that. I've never once have I not turned the water on, reached in to feel it with my hand seal, it warms up, and then get in the shower. It's literally. I can't imagine showering any other way. And this stupid asshole does it twice on the second.

Nic

I mean, like, what? In my own house, where I'm ultra familiar with how long the water takes to heat up and stuff. Even if I can see visual steam, I'm gonna dip in my hand. I can make sure, right? And yeah, this was a part where I'm like, okay, the guy who's particular about everything in his life just hops right in the community shop into the hallway, right? Which also had a rack just chock full of shampoo There's a lot of stuff. As a bald guy. Maybe I'm just hating on shampoo, I guess, but I feel like that's way too much shampoo for a public shower.

Steve

No, it's. Well, first of all, we can just talk about the terrifying nature of the concept of a public shower or a shared bathroom. I've never once stayed in a bed and breakfast, and I don't know if I can draw that directly back to. To Groundhog Day, but. But certainly it doesn't help. It's not something that makes it look attractive or desirable.

Nic

Yeah. No amount of quaintness elsewhere would offset the. The terror of, like, stepping into a, like, already wet shower from somebody else that's not.

Steve

Warm toilet seat.

Nic

No good. But, yeah, big, big failure by Phil on that move.

Steve

Yeah. Let's talk about where the groundhog comes out, because it's the dirtiest sounding, not dirty thing I've ever heard in my life. I think Gobbler's Knob.

Nic

Yes. Yes.

Steve

What the fuck is Gobbler's Knob?

Nic

Is this. You know how this crew. I think Ramis and co, they were big on the see you next Tuesday stuff, right. So it'd be in the background of certain movies. Sure. And I wonder if Gobbler's Knob was one of their ways to, like, what can we wedge into this movie that isn't technically dirty but makes us laugh?

Steve

I feel like. And now I wish I'd looked it up ahead of time. I feel like this is what that part of the town of Punxsutaw, Penn, is called. And it's just. But I don't know that for sure, so maybe I shouldn't throw disparagements.

Nic

Well, when we do Sequel podcast.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. When we actually do this, when we figure out what we're doing, ladies and gentlemen, and do this right. We'll. We'll be better prepared. No, but yeah, I just was like. I'm like, gobblers Knob. It sounds like so many wrong things all at once.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And yet, you know, but it's on its face. On its face. Nothing actually dirt. Right. It's adorable. It's not even. It's not dirty. It's just. It just sounds dirty.

Nic

It's just a knob getting gobbled.

Steve

There's nothing. No, now. Now you've made it dirty. That's not. It's. It's. It's. What is it? It's the knob that belongs to the Gobbler. Yeah, exactly. Which.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

Okay. I think we should probably. I think we should probably move forward on this one.

Nic

So I. The. The love interest in the movie, Andy MacDonald, who I just learned won a best Actress.

Steve

Yeah. Saturn Award.

Nic

Yes, Saturn Award.

Steve

I don't know who she was competing against, by the way. I'm not sure what the volume is.

Nic

But I went through a lot of movies that were made around this year to look at who the lead actresses were, to think of who else, just because I don't know if it's that they didn't give her much to do, but Annie MacDowell didn't. You're playing opposite Bill Murray. You don't have to chew up a lot of scenery.

Steve

Right.

Nic

But I didn't. She was just kind of generic to me, so I was surprised to see that she won an award. But I did love, as much as she was played as this very nice, optimistic person throughout the beginning of it.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And then when she first is prompted to slap Phil in the face when he's not sure about what Dan is. No hesitation. So I enjoyed that.

Steve

Just really hold off on him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think I had read that when they were considering people like Keaton and Hanks, who obviously are comedic actors, but not comedians.

Nic

Right.

Steve

They were looking at women who are comedians to play opposite them. Now, I did not read when I was doing this research, any names that officially were sort of, you know, put in the power. I don't know if Paula Poundstone was supposed to be on this or what, but, like, that would have been kind of odd. Tom Hanks opposite Paula Poundstone would have been a believable romance, in my opinion. But when Murray was cast, they shifted gears for the love interest. And so we can't go with like a comedian opposite a comedian. Just be too. It's going to be too kind of much or whatever, too extra. Too over the top.

Nic

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Steve

Which does make sense.

Nic

And so she was like the actress version of John Cougar Mellencamp, you know, spreading the. Spreading the. The benefits of the small town. All the big city jerks who come to the small towns and don't understand the people and they don't like it. And you get an Andy McDowell help. You see that. Hey, this actually isn't a bad.

Steve

So she was like the proto. Every woman in a Hallmark movie now, basically, like the version of that that came before.

Nic

If she could have AI cloned herself back then, she would be a trillionaire and we'd be all be living in the McDowell imperium right now.

Steve

Okay. There's another thing that popped into my head. So as I'm watching, I think it's like the third day. Right. So we've had. We've definitely had the weirdness happens or the first day that gets repeated. He goes through that day, wakes up the next morning and is like, what the heck? I think is when it happens. And at the end of the night, he breaks a pencil and. And he breaks the pencil, he puts it on the. The bedside table to wake up in the morning to see if the pencil is broken. He's on the phone with somebody asking about when the long distance lines will be back. And the clock says four o'. Clock. So I have to assume that's 4pm that he's going to bed at 4pm because who would he be on the phone with at first? 4:00am Right, right. Like nobody. The phone company is going to answer a call at 4am and I don't.

Nic

Is it clear who he's even trying to call? Because he strikes me as a guy who just kind of doesn't have anybody, which is why he works in this scenario.

Steve

He's probably trying to call the guy.

Nic

With kids and you're reliving the same day for, you know, between 2 and 10,000 years. Like that's a definition of hell.

Steve

No, exactly.

Nic

But it's like a guy with nothing else. And who is he calling?

Steve

I got to admit, I got to figure he's calling the station, he's calling his employer, he's calling his boss, somebody who.

Nic

Give me a chopper.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. Right. You got to get the celebrity out of here, get the talent out of here. And that's sort of his goal. But still, I'd like. Why did the clock say 4? Because it's the thing. This is the kind of thing always bugs me because that is never random. They don't put something on, you know, within the camera shot that isn't a deliberate choice.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And so you can have things that are sort of improv and sort of, you know, off the cuff, but they're never. They're never accidental, I guess, is my point. So what was the idea of being that. Being that it was for just another thing. I don't even know why I brought up because it's not like an answer come to an answer, but it's like.

Nic

The time in the afternoon when they were trying to leave when they encountered the. The crash and the tunnel. I mean, maybe that was around that time.

Steve

February in the northeast. Seems like it would have been earlier in the day than that. Yeah, that Seemed like more like they were there for, like, lunch. Right. They were in the diner and then, you know, hightailing it out of there or trying to, obviously. So it doesn't even seem like it'd be that late. So it's almost like, did he try to join them out of town again? Didn't work. And then when he got back, he's just like, well, then screw it. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna go to sleep. Yeah, I guess, like, it seems odd when he.

Nic

When he finally decides to start having fun with it is really when the movie kicks in. Right. And he starts gorging himself at the diner. That's a very good way of shoving the entire piece of cake into his mouth. And I like the idea that production had to keep re reshooting the scene. Like, oh, okay, we got to narrow the cake. No, that's too narrow. We could fit a little wider piece of cake in there. Perfect size.

Steve

We got. We got the amount. There's a little on his lip. Perfect. We got it.

Nic

Nailed it.

Steve

Put it in the can. It's done. It's good.

Nic

I enjoy. I enjoy him kind of like losing it at that point. And the Bill Murray ness of it kicks in. I think the kind of asshole cleverness of it when he starts talking to Nancy Taylor. Right. And he just walks up to her. What's your name again?

Steve

So he's trying to get her password, security questions right off the bat there.

Nic

Just a beautiful way. So Phil Connors has figured out how to make some moves in this new life of his pretty quickly. I think I want.

Steve

I would explore this for a second. One of the things I thought of is, like, okay, if this happened to me, what would be my sort of journey? Right?

Nic

Yep.

Steve

And I really honestly think this is true. I'm not trying to, like, say I'm like, perfect or great or whatever, but I think, like, the first, you know, X number of days as I'm recognizing, like, oh, my God, I'm stuck in this time loop or even to call it. I don't seem to be getting out. I would be trying to solve a puzzle. I'd be like, well, there must be something I can do to get out. So let me try to, you know, like, the raptors testing the fence. Like, let me find the weak spot. What's the thing that I could do? Let's say you do that for a while and you realize, man, nothing is working. I've tried everything. That's. I would hit depression pretty quickly. I think he gets to Depression. A little later, sitting there memorizing the jeopardy Questions to impress people is absolutely something that would be on my to do list. I would have absolutely done that. That is the kind of, you know, harmless trolling of people that I would probably engage in a lot if this were me. But the fact that he. His natural instinct is to go straight to manipulation for sex is wild to me, and it made it very hard to root for him, really. Certainly through the first two acts of the movie, you know, we can get to the end. Like I said, there's a change that, you know, maybe. Maybe is sold, maybe isn't. But, like, at least up to that point, like, how can you root for this guy? Like, I get that it's Bill Murray and, you know, so whatever. He's like the good guy, and we will have his movies. But good God, what a horrifying human being.

Nic

Oh, no, totally. And. And, you know, there was no really expression that that came from a place of him being just giving up on the situation, saying, like, whatever. I'm not. I'm never going to get. He was just like, day three, time to get some pussy.

Steve

It really.

Nic

It's like, day three. I mean, 1993, man.

Steve

It's bad. It's bad.

Nic

He. And, you know, so then once that wasn't enough, he thought, if I'm gonna be in this one place with no consequences for the same day over and over, I definitely need a whole lot of money, because that's relevant for some reason. Ooh, I can spend four hours buying a car. That sounds cool as hell.

Steve

Yeah. You know, it was a nice car.

Nic

It was a good car. I like that the armored car driver was just making change right out of the back of the truck. Like, now I just watched Den of Thieves, and I'm pretty sure that that's who they should have targeted instead of the federal Reserve building in L. A.

Steve

I feel like he wasn't following policy. I could be wrong.

Nic

I feel like that's not in the hand.

Steve

It's not in the hand.

Nic

I've called Brinks and Loomis and. And they both declined to comment because they're so upset about that scene.

Steve

Oh, that's still. That sitting. That is. They got a still of that printed out or in the break room at Loomis. Just be like, don't be Felix. I do think, though, that's the kind of thing, like, look, I'll be honest. Obviously, if we truly. If there are truly no consequences in the time loop, that means there are no consequences for other people. That is the kind of thing I would do because of the fun. Learning the timing. Right. That looks like a fun puzzle to solve. And being able to walk up and do just that. That did seem like it. But, yeah, the. Really. What's the point, Right. Of, like, how much money could have been in that bag? Like, like 10 grand, 50 grand? I don't even know what money looks like anymore, so.

Nic

And what. What's a day worth of money? Having the most fun you could possibly.

Steve

Have in a tiny town in Western Pennsylvania like this. You're not at Disney World or New York City where, you know, the sky's the limit. Right.

Nic

Right. Yeah. So Felix. I mean, not. Not a good employee.

Steve

I would.

Nic

If I currently ran an armored truck company. I'm not going to hire Felix. He's not. He's not working for me.

Steve

Well, he clearly has had that job for 50 years. Yeah. I feel like. I feel like Felix guarded stagecoaches at one point in his career.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Was old.

Nic

His great grandfather is Cornelius Brinks, and he just got the job from nepotism.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah.

Nic

Back to Andie MacDowell. And something that I feel like was maybe the most upsetting thing in the movie Bold. Her drink order. First of all, I want to go on the record. I've never had this drink before, so I'm speaking from complete ignorance just based on other experiences of flavors.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So her drink order is a sweet vermouth on the rocks with a twist.

Steve

Yes, it is.

Nic

That is what it seems like. It's missing one to two ingredients.

Steve

It's. It is. It is a liqueur. Right. Sweet vermouth is not. Is what you would call a liqueur. Yeah. And. And having a twist is just adding bitterness. Right. A little. A little sour bitterness of a lemon to a liqueur. And it is a sweet liqueur. Obviously. I. I have also never had this drink. So while I can't actually comment on what that tastes like, I can say I have had sweet vermouth in other drinks. Manhattan.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

For instance, features sweet vermouth along with rye or bourbon or whiskey. And, you know, it's fine there.

Nic

It's an interesting thing to have on its own.

Steve

I knew. I knew a friend of mine who'll go unnamed to protect the innocent or mostly innocent who used to love drinking Midori sours. And I never understood it. And I was like, how can you drink this incredibly sweet melon liqueur along with this sweet and sour mix, whatever. This sort of sour mix. And, you know, he liked it fine. Whatever. I'm trying not to yuck people's yums in my older age, but sweet vermouth serum is the same way. It's a liqueur. It tastes. It's just awful.

Nic

It's like drinking a shot at triple sec or something, you know?

Steve

Yeah, or like. Yes, exactly. Or like. Yeah, or like Grand Marnier. It's like one orange. I'm going to drink some Grand Marnier. No, you're not.

Nic

Right.

Steve

That's what you put in things.

Nic

So I feel like, I mean, this is where I kind of waver on, on the morals of Bill Connors because was he being charitable by saying, oh, this person, poor woman, this poor vermouth.

Steve

Drinking, suggesting this excuses some of his behavior perhaps.

Nic

I'm not, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to use the vermouth defense.

Steve

But when he comes back, the, you know, the quote the next day to try again and he orders her drink and he takes a sip of it, his reaction, that was good. Very satisfying.

Nic

His, his original drink order was good. I like the classic, indicate with your fingers how much of each thing you want because he did like 5, 5 inches of Jim Beam. Little ice, little water.

Steve

You know, Jim Beam though, does seem a little declasse for, for Phil Connors. I don't know if Jim, if maybe Jim Beam was a better regarded bourbon in the 90s than, than by the time you and I started drinking, but I know that was, that was the. Well at every bar I went to in college. So.

Nic

Yeah, I mean, it's funny, I feel like this is the time that we're living in the high end bourbon era, but then every high end bourbon I ever get says established 1841 or something like that. So it's like, well, that was available to Phil Connors and in some way.

Steve

Right. I mean, I think a lot of those you had to.

Nic

Not commercially available.

Steve

Right. You had to be in that, that distiller's living room to get that particular bourbon at the time.

Nic

You know, maybe the third star of the movie, I guess what we call Chris Elliott the third star.

Steve

He would, he would be the, the, the first supporting actor. Basically not a star, but, but next in line.

Nic

So when we're voting for the Saturn Awards.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

For exactly.

Steve

Supporting lead actor for Chris Elliott.

Nic

I love Chris Elliott, adore him. I think he's uniquely funny. I think he can get an effect that a lot of people can't. He's very funny. And I don't know that he was really utilized.

Steve

Not at all.

Nic

In this movie, I almost feel like if you put a. I don't know, just kind of a slacker type, like a early David Cross or Judah Friedlander type guy or someone who's just, I don't know, the camera's facing the wrong way. One of those kind of guys that would have been fine too, but I don't know. They didn't really let Chris Elliot cook too much. I think he only had a couple jokes and he really only became full Chris Elliot during the bachelor auction and stuff. That was like he had a scene and we're skimming ahead, but we're talking.

Steve

Elliot's fine. Yeah.

Nic

Where he's at the Date with Nancy Taylor. He's at the bar, right?

Steve

Well, it's not really a date. It appears that he has. He's attempting to pick her up and they both happen to be at the hotel bar.

Nic

Seems like in 1993 that was called the Date and she owed him something.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

So he tips the bartender and picks it. Gets up and then he reaches back and picks it up. I just. These little despicable things that the Chris Elliott character is always capable of, I really enjoy. There wasn't much room for him to do stuff in there, but I just want to shout out Chris Elliot. He's very funny. And I think he was maybe underutilized here.

Steve

Not maybe. I 100% agree. Absolutely underutilized. I'm going to take a little. Take us down a little side path for a minute and talk about. Because Chris Elliott brings it up to me. There were several actors, well, several characters in this movie played by people who are either otherwise became famous or personally, I know from other pieces of media. And Chris Elliott obviously has a long and storied career. But for my. Myself or my wife, one of our favorite TV shows of all time is Schitt's Creek. And of course, Chris Elliot is one of the, you know, five biggest characters on that show, playing the mayor of the town, Roland Chit. And he's fantastic. And he. He is Chris Elliott in that show. He gets to be himself when that shows on quite a bit more than he could as Larry here running the camera. But there's a handful. There's. There's one other Schitt's Creek connection to this movie, which is that Doris the waitress is played by the same actress who plays Wendy, the owner of the Blouse Barn in Elmdale on Schitt's Creek. So if you're a Schitt's Creek fan, keep an eye out for Doris, the waitress. She's in several scenes.

Nic

Is she the one trying to get change from Felix?

Steve

Right. Yes. So she's. She's the waitress that takes the orders when Phil's going hog wild on the food and wants to see Paris one day. Right. That comment is made. Then she's the one getting changed from Felix. Or who? From whoever at the armored car. And then she's the one who tries to get into the bidding or gets into the bidding war with Nancy over Phil before Rita knocks them both out completely. Which actually. Okay, I'm gonna put a pin in that second because I want to also mention a very small part, but was it Debbie and Fred, right. Are getting married at the end of the day, and Phil buys them WrestleMania tickets and they go crazy for them. And who is Fred?

Nic

Michael Shannon.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

The great. The great Michael Shannon.

Steve

One of the, like, 10, maybe best dramatic television actors working today.

Nic

I'm so psyched every time I see him in anything. And I thought 8 mile was super early. Michael Shannon. This is 10 years earlier than that.

Steve

This is officially. This was his first screen credit. Okay, so this was officially the beginning of his acting career. You know, I. My first. Not first, but really the first time that I, like, kind of fell in love with Michael Shannon, for me, was Boardwalk Empire. He was fantastic in that. And. And so to see him at this stage where he's got to be like, I didn't do the math, but he's got to be like 23 or 24. He's very young guy and a fun little role. There's those. And then the last one I want to mention, actually jumping all the way back to the beginning of the film and making a reference that no one listening is going to give a shit about. But I like to mention it anyway. The guy, I don't even think we get his name, but the guy who's going to be the backup weatherman at WPBH while Phil is in Punxsutawney and says something about, oh, don't worry if you're not here by tomorrow, I'll do the five o'. Clock. And he says, no, no, I'll definitely be back tomorrow. Don't worry about it. Yeah, that guy again, I don't remember his name. He was in Sex in the City. I didn't really watch that. But he was Maz on White Collar. And if you're not familiar with White Collar, it's a fantastic USA action drama when they were doing a bunch of those.

Nic

Okay, right. Suits era.

Steve

Like, suits Era. Burn notice era.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

Very much like mid aughts into the teens, sort of. USA Television White Collar is a great show about a art thief who works with the FBI on, like, a release program to help take down other con men and our thieves and stuff. And Maz is his best friend who's this sort of his, you know, viewpoint into the underbelly of New York society and sort of, you know, the way that he stays in touch with the criminal underground is through that guy. Oh, nice. Which is. Which is a lot of fun because he doesn't look like he should be that guy.

Nic

I. Yeah. I love those discoveries. Well, I'm glad you. I'm glad you were able to find those. Those are good ones.

Steve

Yeah. Going back. Can we go back to the bachelor auction for a minute?

Nic

Sure. Yeah.

Steve

So. So we've got this. First of all, these. These. These amounts. I know it's 1993. It's not 2003 or 2023, but these seem like really tiny dollar amounts. Really bad. Right. And Phil Connors is a television star. Let's not mistake this. Right. Like, just because he's been in that town and doing things. And that's why people like him. It's not like they don't know who he is. He's. He's. Pittsburgh is not far from Punx Tani. They're both in Western Pennsylvania. There's no way they don't get WPBH there in Punxsutawney. They know who Phil Connors is. He is a local celebrity. Yeah. Okay. $5, I believe, was the opening bid for Phil Connors. Like, that's how. Okay, so. So Nancy and Doris go back and forth. 5, 10, 15, 20, all the way. And they get up to about 50 or so, I think is the ballpark. When Rita, who is clearly looking at the ledger in her checkbook, yells out $339.88. And to that, I have to say that the gender disparity in pay, in pay and wages, is obviously real, because there is no reason a television producer, even in. And even at a tiny little station in Pittsburgh, should not have more than $339.88 in her checking account.

Nic

Ooh.

Steve

Like, what the hell?

Nic

Like, she might have an only for purchasing dates checking account.

Steve

That's true. That might be her human trafficking. But I like that's possible.

Nic

I like that, though. I mean, it's not. Not close to payday. And she just went out of pocket for Phil's special BNB. She'll get reimbursed she'll fill out in that report. 1993, that took two months to get back to.

Steve

That's right. You do inter office memo envelopes to get those back and forth, you know.

Nic

And also, you know, I, I love that, that she gave it all she had, but she could have said 65 bucks and probably got it.

Steve

I feel, I really feel like it was slowing down. I, I feel like Nancy and, and Doris were coming to the end of their particular funds for this, for this project and she probably could have saved a few hundred dollars. But yeah, hey, go ahead, go whole hog. Go all in.

Nic

So, yeah, I, that, that's, that's very funny. That, that was. Scene is a lot. I always try to do the conversion, the rough conversion in my head and it's so distorted by the way the prices of different things change, you know, but it's like, okay, that's what, a thousand bucks, give or take, right?

Steve

Seven, $800 maybe.

Nic

Yeah, she should be doing a little better than that.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

When, when Phil kind of gave. Gave up a little bit and he goes through his period of just, you know, nihilism and he's trying to kill himself.

Steve

Yes, well, succeeding, we believe.

Nic

Succeeding many times in killing himself. I love the gag and this is like an only in the movies thing, but it just, I just, I don't know why I love this so much. I love that there is bread in the suicide toaster. Like they're just like, you know what? This is not going to read as a toaster unless we have these big pieces of pumpernickel sticking out of it.

Steve

I think I get it though, because it did make it extra clear. You know, he presses down the little buttons which, like, you know, little levers which obviously, you know, you have to engage. I think that probably the electrical current in the toaster, if it was plugged in, it would have done bad things to him in the tub regardless. But obviously having it engaged makes it that much clearer, you know, that it's going to shock him. But yeah, that was a great.

Nic

Just such a cartoony thing, you know. Like I, I love that.

Steve

Elementary. Wily.

Nic

Yes. And it just, it, I, I love that stuff. I really enjoyed that. I don't.

Steve

Very similarly right then and there in that exact same sequence when he steps in front of the bus and he kind of waves to it. It. Yeah, right. Like he steps in front of us with his hands up, but he, but he like opens and close. I can't. You know, this is an audio format so we can see me Doing this, but he, like, opens and closes his hands, like a little wave, like, bye, bye. And I, of course, I feel terrible for that. You know, for that MTA driver who has to, you know, hit him with the bus. That's a rough deal with that. That's. Hopefully that guy also gets to wake up. Right? Yeah. Back in the beginning of the day without realizing it, I guess. How does that work?

Nic

He's creating a terrible 12 hours for.

Steve

A lot of people.

Nic

At the very least. Least.

Steve

At the very least, yeah.

Nic

So it showed that, and then it showed him jumping off the building.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

Trying to think of what other attempts it showed. It might be just those few. Are there any wildly dangerous things that you feel like you'd want to give a shot to, knowing that you'd have no chance of perishing?

Steve

Yeah, there's absolutely. See, like, for me, I think it wouldn't be things that were just like, okay, well, this would just kill you. But things where it's like, oh, man, there's a real chance of it dying. But it sounds great. Like, the first thing comes to mind is skydiving.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

100. I would skydive. I would tell them I would do whatever I have to do to forge paperwork to say I don't need an attached, you know, person that I can just go out myself, out of the plane, and I'll just try it, because I know if it goes horrifically wrong, which in very middle may, I'll just wake up in the morning and it'll be fine. But if it goes well, I'm sure it's a great rush and people love doing it. So that would be the kind of thing that maybe like, you know, some kind of a really big bungee jump. Some, some, some bridge over a ravine, Right. Where the bungee gets you within inches of the water below or something. Crazy.

Nic

Tap the water.

Steve

Yeah, exactly.

Nic

Yeah. I've always been a fan of hang gliding, like, old school style. Just launch yourself off a mountain and hope that the wind cooperates. And I feel like in that kind of situation, it would be kind of fun. I think he does a decent job. I mean, you gotta wonder how often was he trying to kill himself, hoping that it would work, and how often was he just like, I wonder what it feels like to get electrocuted to death.

Steve

I wonder what I, I, I certainly think the impression we're meant to take from that sequence is that he wants this to end and, and that he is hoping that if he does this enough, it will. Interesting side note, there is actually a Horror movie coming out later this year. And I'm going to forget. Oh, it's. I believe it's called Until Daylight or something like that. But it's. Get it wrong now, but it's. It's basically Groundhog Day, but a horror movie movie. These kids get like trapped in like a cabin somewhere and they keep getting killed. Everybody described a haunted house, you know, kind of thing, whatever. They keep dying from horrific, you know, monsters. Some kind of like, you know, horror movie cliche.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Comes and gets them and then. But then they all revert right back to, you know, like 6pm that day. They're all alive again, but they have all the memories of the horrific things that have happened to them. And then they get hunted by some other horrific horror thing, whatever. And it's kind of like, yeah, that would be a day you'd want to end. I don't. I think. I feel like that's a much. There's a much bigger element of like, oh my God, could this please stop? I don't think what Phil goes through is nearly as serious, given that possibility as another time loop.

Nic

Right. Exist. Well, and you know, in the movie, and I think maybe at the very end we can talk about this, but it doesn't super clearly lay out the amount of time in Phil's time that he spent there. And, you know, I think I read somewhere or you in the notes that it depicts like 36 separate days or something like that. It shows. And obviously there are more days implies that there are more. But it would be interesting if there was some kind of a counter on the bottom as to how long he'd been there or something. Because you take it differently if you think, oh, he's been like this for four weeks or he's been like this for 45.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

You know, like it's a big difference.

Steve

Yeah. So I did a little research into this there. First thing I'll say is that no one involved in the film, Ramis Ruben, anyone else has put a number on it. Nobody has. There is no official number. Apparently initially, shortly after movie came out, Harold Ramos would say things like that it was a few thousand days or a few hundred days. He would kind of vastly back and forth. A few years, I think was kind of the. The expectation. And it supposedly someone claims that they told. They were told by Ramus later in his life. Life that it was at least 10,000 days, I believe, but that. That doesn't seem like that long. I don't know, like 10,000 days is what, like, like 25 years. I guess that's probably about right. Yeah. I mean, that would be a lot, right? 10,000 times, waking up to that same song.

Nic

I mean, to get that good at piano. And I. Sculpture, the easiest thing to learn with no art background. Yeah. Just chainsawing a big block of ice. Very practical.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I would love a montage of his, like, thousand days of practicing on a big cube of ice. And how does he go about getting those lessons and everything?

Steve

Like, on the topic of lessons, I have to mention this.

Nic

Yeah, okay.

Steve

I think I know what you're gonna say.

Nic

So.

Steve

So we get to the big banquet, right? We're near the end of the movie. It's near the end of. Of the thing where we were about to have the. The auction. But before that, Phil is rocking the. The piano, the band is playing this great jazz number, and he's. Whatever. And the woman who has been training him in piano looks over to Rita and says, he's my student. Isn't he great? And my thought is, why the hell did he go to her on that day? Right. Obviously he's been going to her. But that particular version of the day, when he woke up, he went to get a lesson and went to play the thing. Doesn't make any sense.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

That person should not know him from Adam. Other than that he is Phil Connors from wpbh. Like, why that doesn't make any sense to me.

Nic

That's. That's a very good point. That's a very good point. I. When he first went to get the piano lesson and hands her $1,000 and then the door closes and then she shuffles, that poor little girl was just. Just a classic mean, but very, very funny gag. I really enjoyed that. But yeah, that's a good point. At a certain point, he doesn't need that piano lesson.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

But yeah, I don't know.

Steve

Yeah, I think he's got a lot to do.

Nic

It seems like his days need to get much longer.

Steve

Right, right, right.

Nic

He's got to save the homeless guy.

Steve

Well, no, that he ends up realizing he can't. It's just somebody's. When it's your time, it's your time. But he's got to catch that kid falling out of the tree, Right? He's got to go help Buster not choke on steak or whatever he was eating at lunch. I guess that's what that was. And then he's got to go change those old ladies tires.

Nic

He did start jacking that car up before he unscrewed the bolt of the lug Nuts on the tire. Which is a big no, no. I didn't like that. I think if he spent more days figuring that out, he would have done it right at the end. Now we have Phil Connors, who started off as kind of an irredeemable guy. Pretty, young, no friends, didn't care about anybody else. Were shown that through his talking to. It kind of glosses over the part where he starts caring about people. It was just one day. All of a sudden he's like, oh, I know this guy. And this is the. You know, given the life story of all the people at the diner.

Steve

Well, there was a moment that we were supposed to believe that there was a single thing that Rita told him that flips this switch in him. When she says something on the day when he convinces her that he could be a God, right in the diner, and he starts naming all the things about people, she's like, how are you doing this? How are you doing this? At the end of that day, she says something like. And I didn't write it down, but she wrote something about, I don't know, Phil, maybe it's not a curse. That's it. That's supposed to be the thing that makes him go, oh, I could learn how to play the piano. That I could. I could look around town for people about to randomly die and save them. Like, I don't get how that translates, but supposedly that. That's the movie's cue to us, that he is about to undergo a change.

Nic

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Steve

No, it doesn't. Don't give it that credit. It doesn't make sense at all.

Nic

I'm just trying to be a good co host. He really was locked in to the Andie MacDowell character. She's his white whale throughout the film. What percentage of the town do you think he ended up sleeping with? She's gotta get bored. Right?

Steve

Right. We only see the two date. He dates Nancy several times, it seems. But then there's that other woman. I don't even know if we get her name, but she's wearing the French maid outfit to go see Heidi, too. He's dressed like John Wayne or maybe Clint Eastwood. Right, Clint Eastwood. Yeah. Good, Bad and the Ugly. And she's dressed like a French maid. The only movie playing at that cineplex is Heidi too. Yeah. Okay.

Nic

It sounded like he was taking her to a Clint Eastwood. Yes, because he was this movie, like, you knowing it. And that wasn't. That was an odd scene.

Steve

I just didn't. I didn't get that at all. But attractive woman in a French maid outfit. I guess that would. Maybe that was the only point for that one. I don't know.

Nic

It's funny that that's a good time capsule of like, what would a really cool guy with unlimited resources look like? And what would his date be dressed like? Like, oh, hey, if I had all the money in the world, I'd get a really cool car and take a French maid to a movie.

Steve

It's like, oh, man, two chicks at the same time asleep.

Nic

I do. He didn't even get into the arts until so late in the game. That's an interesting part of it. You know, he learned a lot of.

Steve

French poetry early on very manipulatively right there to manipulate her. Once he finds out that she studied that in college.

Nic

And do you think he might have just learned the piece that she said was most meaningful to her? There's no way he's got a canon of French poetry.

Steve

He probably memorized a few and then. Yeah, so yes, probably found out her favorite authors in the genre and then maybe, you know, so that. But he probably memorized a few just in case. Right. There would be use for more than one. I don't think he learned French. He might have. He certainly had the time, obviously. But I think he probably just learned enough to get by because at that stage, he didn't seem like he had any interest in like bettering himself. It was just to be manipulative.

Nic

Right, right.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

He. Interesting path. But, you know, he seems to have gotten. And you know, really the thing at the end, the last day that he had to repeat was the only time he was ever nice to Chris Elliot.

Steve

That's true. And I think at least that we see. Yes.

Nic

The trick. You just. You gotta be nice to Chris Elliot.

Steve

It sounds like maybe what actually was happening in the movie is that Larry is God. Chris Elliot plays God and was putting him through this hell until he was nice to him, until he gave him a donut.

Nic

Oh, yeah, or Dane.

Steve

It was raspberry Danish, I think. Right. Whatever it was, that was it. If he'd done that on day one, he would have been back to Pittsburgh before he knew it. But.

Nic

So we. Are we in for an Evan Almighty style sequel to this where it's just the Chris Elliott character.

Steve

I do think we've. We've. I think the window maybe has closed on that. Remus is dead. And, and, and, you know, I don't know what Chris Elliott is doing.

Nic

He was a hologram in that Ghostbuster movie.

Steve

God that's right. Speaking of which, of course Ramis with the cameo. Always a cameo in his own movies. Right. He has to play the, the neurologist or whatever that, that Phil goes to see. But yeah, I don't, I don't know a single Harold Ramis movie where he doesn't at least show up a little bit. And that's the ones that he didn't star in.

Nic

Yeah, he's. He's got to put himself in there. That's important. It's like Favreau's got to put himself in his movies.

Steve

Oh, yeah, Yep. Absolutely.

Nic

Big move.

Steve

Tarantino. Right.

Nic

Do you think that this movie was hurt by the fact that it was a romantic comedy? Could this have been like a more fun, more funny, like looser movie? If it was just. But then how do you make, how do you sell that as a movie? But it just seems like he was so tied into this and the fun of the movie was him fucking off.

Steve

Right.

Nic

You know, doing crazy stuff and having no consequences.

Steve

Right. So interestingly, it's a great question. When I watched this, I watched it. I use a service called Plex to watch those things and they have, they pulled data from somewhere, you know, about the movie. And it had genres listed for the movie and the genres listed were fantasy, romance and drama. Comedy, not even part of it, which I thought was interesting because I do remember it as a comedy. Although in this, watch through. Not really all that comedic, but a romance. Romance was sort of the first, you know, the first piece of that. And I feel like in the early 90s, to get this weird of a movie done, you had to make it a romantic comedy.

Nic

Right.

Steve

I think there was more leeway if this were, if this had come out in 2003 instead of 1993, it would have been a gross out buddy combination comedy. Right. It would have been a Wedding Crashers. It would have been a, a old school caliber, sort of Judd Apatow, Jonah Hill. Exactly. Would have been that kind of thing. It would have starred, yeah, you know, Will Ferrell and, and would have been Directed by Adam McKay. Right. Like that. That's, that's what this movie would have been if it had been 10 years later. But given what time it was, that's what I think it needed to be commercially viable. Now the funny part is, is that if you, if you get into one of the things that they suggest when you start thinking about, like, well, you know, what kind of ideas can you come up with? How do you come up with ideas for movies? One of the things I say is take a movie and take the very basic plot of it and just change the genre. And I mentioned a film coming out later this year that really kind of looks like Groundhog Day, but a horror movie.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So you could do Groundhog Day, but a blank Groundhog Day, but a different genre, and it might be a much better movie. I don't really think Looper is exactly Groundhog Day, but sci fi action, but it kind of maybe sort of like that. Obviously all the. The, you know, everything everywhere, all at once or whatever is kind of in the same, you know, anything that's Multiverse.

Nic

Palm Springs. Did you see that one?

Steve

Love that one. Yes, yes. That was Sandberg, right? Yeah, yeah, that was a fantastic movie and very much like Groundhog Day, but also kind of basically romantic comedy at its core in a lot of sense.

Nic

Yeah, I guess maybe there's a certain, I don't know, maybe more saccharine nature to the movies of the 90s versus the even a romantic comedy you'd watch much made in the mid 2000s, like I love you, man or something, has a lot of good kind of raunchy, like, real comedy in it where it's not tiptoeing around things as much.

Steve

I think it's there. I think there was a fulcrum in time that is like the. The Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, Judd Apatow sort of inflection point. And then after those guys started making their movies, you know, romantic comedies didn't have to be so sweet. You didn't have to have John Cusack in everything. You could. You could go with Seth Rogen and be like, oh, this guy's really weird looking and he's the Roman romantic lead. And it was like, believable. And I think before that, it needed to be much more conventionally attractive people, even Bill Murray. It was, I think, pushing the limits. A little of your standard John Cusack, Tom Hanks, definitely comedy lead, you know, but. But it obviously works. And he was such a huge star at the time. I mean, he still is. He's Bill Murray. But. But really this was, you know, I guess maybe near the end of the absolute height of his sort of powers. But, you know, he was still very much an ace celebrity at the time, for sure. That's how you had to get things made, I think.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, I enjoyed. There was a line he had at the. At the end of the movie where he wakes up in bed with Andie McDowell, realizes that, you know, he's out of the loop.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Or whatever. And he Says he says something after this, but I felt like this should have been the best ending line. He just says it was the end of a very long day.

Steve

Right.

Nic

I was like, end it Right.

Steve

Cut.

Nic

That's it.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And then it still, you know, still went for a little bit, but it didn't have a wedding scene or anything cheesy like that.

Steve

No, but it did have them, like, frolicking out into the street, which is totally unnecessary. Funny enough. So about that moment, though, I got this really strong Ebenezer Scrooge Christmas carol after the ghosts visited vibe. He runs to the window, looks out the window, is kind of like. And turns around and asks, asks Rita, what day is it? As if he is literally Scrooge yelling down to the urchin about, what day is it? It's Christmas Eve. I didn't miss it. I, for some reason really got this Christmas carol vibe off the last moment of the, you know, throwing up the sash and like the winter scene. And then. What day is it? You know?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

February 3rd. Oh, my God.

Nic

You know, it was like an It's a Wonderful Life. But if nobody liked him at the.

Steve

Beginning of it, which would have made that a very different movie.

Nic

Yeah, it's like It's a Wonderful Life if he probably should have killed himself at the beginning before he learned his lessons.

Steve

It's a Wonderful Life. But the main character is Potter. Yeah.

Nic

I think. Are we rating this?

Steve

Yeah, I think we. We should each give it a score out of five. Half points are allowed.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

Don't. Don't feel pressured based on the very high IMDb and rotten tomatoes score. I know I didn't, but what do you think? What do you give it out of five?

Nic

So it. It's like you have to adjust for the fact that it's an old comedy and comedy doesn't age very well, just as a rule. But I. I think it holds up well. And the fact that it manages to be a PG movie with a lot of funny moments in it. Although it's funny, what would still let you be PG when it's like, thematic elements of this movie are things I want my kid nowhere near.

Steve

Exactly. Right.

Nic

So it's like, well, you know, he didn't say shit when he was manipulating this poor woman into an incredible power imbalance relationship to take advantage of her at the end. But I do think it was funny. Good. Bill Murray. I don't really see someone other than Bill Murray in this role. I think he. He did a good job of it. The rest of the cast, fine. I Love some Michael Shannon. I'm gonna give it a four out of five.

Steve

Nice. Nice, nice. I'm not far off from that. It was not as good as I remember. I actually look back, and when I first got on Letterbox, I went through just, like every movie in my collection and just sort of gave it the rating based on my memories of the last time I saw it. At the time, I had given Groundhog Day a four and a half out of five. But on re watching it, it, to me, it doesn't hold up as well as I kind of wanted it to. I do understand, you know, you do have to sort of, like, take the movie in the context of its time. It's how a movie like Blazing Saddles can still be a five out of five for me, even though today, clearly, that movie never gets made. Not only would it not be well received, but for me, this is a three and a half. I gave it a 3.5. I even dropped down the rating in letterbox just to be, well, accurate and honest. Because as we all know, that's, you know, very important.

Nic

That's at the core of our project.

Steve

Exactly. It's very, very important. So. So, yeah, three and a half out of five for me. A good movie. Not great. You know, obviously would recommend it. Clearly, people out in the world rate this high more highly than I do, and that's fine. But that does mean that our sort of combined rating is a 7 1/2 out of 10, which is a good. That's a good movie. Movie.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

I don't think there's any way to look at it that we're not saying this isn't an enjoyable flick. I just. For me, it was like. I remember it being funnier. I remember caring about Phil more early. And so I think that has a lot to say about who I was in my 20s and teens. More than anything about the movie. Obviously, the movie didn't change. Really. Nothing about it changed. But when I look at it now, I found him very hard to care about through the first two acts. The third act was very enjoyable when she decided to, like, learn how to do stuff and, like, whatever. Even though, again, there was. I agree with you, there was sort of this tinge of, like, is he still just doing this to try to, like, either get out of it or get Rita or whatever? There was much. There was a lot more innocence to it. There was a lot. A lot more just kindness to his actions, and it was easier to root for him in the third act.

Nic

So, yeah, well, good film. And. And we gotta. We got a film coming up next.

Steve

Yeah. What are we gonna, what are we gonna see next, Nick? What are we gonna watch next? Next?

Nic

So I like living in the 90s here. I think. I think this is. I think this is a fun place to be and I enjoy so many movies of that era. The one that I picked is one that I, I hope you're familiar with.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

And it's 1991 movie starring Sean Aston.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

Louis Gossett Jr.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

Who else is in this one? Will Wheaton.

Steve

Oh, God.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

A. A very high end prep school, right, is overtaken by terrorists in 1991's Toy Soldiers. Soldiers. Sean Astin and his band of friends need to, you know, group together and do what the US Special Forces apparently is unable to do and, you know, save the day. Very enjoyable movie. I, I've watched it a bunch and I think it'll be a lot of fun to talk about.

Steve

So I, I am very much looking forward to that. Let me tell you something, Nick. Never seen will be the first time I see that movie. I know about it. I'm well aware of its existence. It falls into the kids save the world sub genre of the mid to late 80s into the early 90s movies like Iron Eagle and the Rescue and what was it not. What was the one, Colorado. The Kids have to Fight.

Nic

Oh, Red Dawn.

Steve

Red Dawn. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, that was certainly a sub genre that existed while we were kids. And so I was big into those movies. But I have not seen Toy Soldiers. I am very, very much looking forward to doing that.

Nic

I, yeah, I'm interested to see because it's one. One of those things that I caught on TV when I was younger and I just loved. I was like, I haven't seen anything like this. This is, it's fun, but there's action and there's kids and it was just a fun thing to see. So, yeah, really looking forward to chatting about this with you. Next.

Steve

Great. Awesome. Well, I think that does it for us. The movie was Groundhog Day. We ended up giving it a 7.5 out of 10. I hope you all enjoyed that. This was our first episode, the first ever 2Dads1 movie. And yeah, Nick, thank you so much for, for joining me today.

Nic

Yeah, it's a lot of fun, Steve.

Steve

It was good stuff. And thank you everybody out there listening for listening. And we will be back. I don't know exactly when, but soon.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Watching Toy Soldiers.

Nic

Absolutely. All right, thanks everyone.

Steve

Take care.