Transcript

Intro Clip

Tonight's special event features two great athletes in the blue corner weighing 221 pounds, the former heavyweight champion of the world, the dancing destroyer, the king of sting, the count of Monte Fisto. Yo, you think you got enough names? Patience, Stallion, almost done. The master of disaster, the one and only Apollo Creed. Ivan Drago not anticipating a great fight now as Apollo is in the ring. He's playing to the crowd. In the red corner weighing 261 pounds, gold medalist and undefeated world amateur champion from the Soviet Union. The Siberian Bull, Ivan Drago. I want you. I want you. I want you. Now the two fighters come to the center of the ring for the instructions from referee Lou Filippo. You boys know the rules. Watch your low blows, kidney punches, rabbit punches. In case of a knockdown, you go to the corner I tell you to, and you stay there until I tell you to come out. Shake hands, let's have a good fight. All right, it's time to go to school, son. Come on, get your hands up, man. You need an interpreter? It's time to go to school. You're gonna lose.

Steve

It's 2 Dads 1 Movie It's the podcast where two middle-aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Two Dads, One Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are opening up the fifth and final door on the 2025 Dadvent Calendar. And Nic, what movie's behind that door?

Nic

The most Christmasy movie of all time, possibly. This is 1985's Rocky IV.

Steve

Rocky IV, starring Sylvester Stallone, And let's start with the big question. Nic, is this a Christmas movie?

Nic

I think they say Christmas in it twice. So because the Dadvent calendar this year had four windows, or had five windows in it, I thought, okay, maybe let's go a little wild with the next one. I do have to admit to everybody listening, it's 5 a.m. on New Year's Eve morning right now as we're going live. And I know we have a late night coming up tonight, so. Maybe I was just a little out of my mind, but I do remember in watching this movie that the fight took place on Christmas Day for no money.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And I thought, hey, this would be fun to throw in there, and let's see if there's any other even nods towards Christmas during the entire film. And there are a couple of minor whiffs of Christmas, but I'm not gonna-- this is not the rotation with It's a Wonderful Life with the family every year.

Steve

No, this would definitely qualify as the least Christmasy, most maybe Christmas-adjacent movie that we added to the Dadvent Calendar this year, and that's okay. We can definitely stretch that definition however we'd like to go. Real quick, I think I'm just gonna run down before we get any further into it. Rocky IV's Christmas bonafides. The bout between Drago and Balboa does take place on Christmas Day. Yep. All right. Yep. When Rocky's son, Robert Jr., is watching his dad box on TV on Christmas Day, there is a Christmas tree behind him. It's visible and it's lit and everything.

Nic

And the robot is wearing a Santa hat and beard.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

I think there's also a very brief sound of the Chipmunk Christmas song at some point when they're in Russia. So, yeah, I mean, this is basically Miracle on 34th Street. I don't know what anyone's talking about.

Steve

I love, too, that there is a very big, important plot point in this movie where someone is given a gift and it is not a Christmas gift at all. It's Paulie's birthday. So there is that, too. Okay. I question not only, to be honest with you, whether this is a Christmas movie, I question whether this is a movie at all. Because to me, it felt a lot more like two boxing matches and four music videos, kind of loosely strung together with a little bit of dialogue. There's not a whole lot.

Nic

Can you see what I wrote down right there?

Steve

Eight montages in a trench coat. Yes, exactly.

Nic

Eight montages in a trench coat. It is not a movie, you're correct. You nailed the whole thing. So two dads is a hell of a lot of fun.

Steve

Artistic film project or something? I'm not even really sure what we're doing today, but that's okay. That's okay. All right. Well, before we get into the facts on it, Nic, you picked the movie for us. Tell us about your history with Rocky IV. Why'd you pick it for us other than to have this conversation about whether it's a Christmas movie, which was clearly part of the point.

Nic

Yeah, I just thought this would be kind of fun to see. Like, how does this have any Christmas in it? I remember it taking place on Christmas. But also, I haven't watched a Rocky movie in such a long time. And I was very curious now, we've been talking about movies so much, and I've been thinking about them differently over the last year since we started the pod. And just like, how would this hold up? How would I take this at this point? And I remember this being one that has all these memorable visuals and characters and stuff in the setting, but is it any good? And we'll get to that.

Steve

Yes, we will.

Nic

How about you?

Steve

Yeah, for my part, I think this is a movie, I mean, it wouldn't have been a theater thing. We were like, what, five when this came out, give or take. So I wouldn't have seen this in theater, but probably pretty early on, it is PG. It was a massive smash success hit, which we'll get into in a minute. It really was a huge cultural thing. Obviously, just even the whole US versus USSR kind of Cold War part to it is hugely influential as well. So I probably saw this when I was like eight or nine years old on TV or on VHS or something like that. And I've never been a huge fan of the Rocky movies. It's never really been my wheelhouse. And I always felt that the original Rocky, where he is the sort of completely unknown, he's trying to come up and make his name, and he loses to Creed at the end. Like, that's the best of the Rocky movies. Everything that came after is like Stallone digging into the character further to see what other pots of gold there might be underneath right after he got at least the nomination, maybe even the win for best original screenplay for the first one.

Nic

Yeah, for the first one. Yeah.

Steve

So it was very, that was his first golden statue. And so I'm sure he kept, you know, but somewhere along the line, he clearly abandoned that sort of process or pursuit when it came to the Rocky movies for just like, hey, can we make something that's going to make hundreds of millions of dollars? And the answer is, yeah, dude, you can over and over again.

Nic

All right.

Steve

Let's jump into this.

Nic

Let's hear some facts. Yeah, let's talk about this.

Steve

All right, the movie Rocky IV with a PG rating was released on November 21st, 1985. Sounds like maybe right before Thanksgiving that year, not 100% sure. Running time of 91 minutes, maybe.

Nic

Crisp.

Steve

Here's the thing, I'm gonna stop for a second, because a 91-minute movie, most screenplays equal somewhere around the average one page of screenplay per minute of screen time. That's an average. Movies that are super heavy dialogue movies will be longer than that per minute, and movies that are almost most all action will be shorter than that per minute because action takes up less space on the page. I don't know for sure, and I really now wish I'd looked. I bet the screenplay for this movie is about 40 pages long, give or take, for a 91 minute movie. Yeah. There's just so little dialogue and there's so little action other than, like, they could literally have put the last 25 minutes in as, like, boxing match. Rocky wins. Like, I mean, that could have been. Yeah, the screenplay. So it'll be interesting to look. I'll have to look back. The movie written by Directed by and starring one Sylvester Stallone. We love you, Sylvester. Co-starring Dolph Lundgren and Carl Weathers. Scores. Rotten Tomatoes 39% rotten on Rotten Tomatoes. On IMDb a 6.9, which is definitely below kind of the minimum good threshold tends to hit right around that seven. We got a thumbs up from Gene Siskel and a thumbs down from Roger Ebert. This was a... Critically awarded film. Ooh. In many ways, right? So at the 1986 Razzie Awards, it walked home with four such trophies. I don't know if they're actually raspberries or what they are. So Sylvester Stallone won worst actor, but he did have to share that honor between Rocky IV and his role as Rambo in Rambo: First Blood Part II. It was a dual award from the Razzies that year. But he also won worst director for this movie. And then Bridget Nielsen won worst new star, and she shared that with her role in Red Sonia came out in '85 as well. And Worst Supporting Actress, Talia Shire, it should be mentioned, also nominated for Worst Supporting Actress. But Bridget Nielsen just beat her out for it. So good for you, Bridget.

Nic

So loaded with steroids.

Steve

Yeah, lots of Razzie action here on Rocky IV. On a $31 million budget, it pulled in $300 million at the box office for nearly ten times what it cost. So regardless of all that Razzie Award stuff and 39% Rotten Tomatoes, massive blockbuster hit, huge movie, no doubt about it.

Nic

I would love if there's any resource, I mean, if anybody listening knows, can let us know, is there a resource that kind of breaks down how a budget, you know, is comprised? Because I would love to know how much of that 31 million was paid to Stallone as star and director.

Steve

I know. Because he's a writer as well. Yeah.

Nic

So, I mean, how much did he scrape off that before you even started making the movie?

Steve

Must have had a quote for each of his roles. He must have had, like, if you want Sylvester Stallone to direct, that costs this. If you want him to act, that costs this. And if you want to write, that costs this. Even if we assume that, like, the writing credit now he's a Oscar award winning screenwriter. So it's not like he's not good. But even if we accept that that's only like a million or two, like something fairly on the low side as director, maybe not a ton of experience. I can't remember how many other movies he directed before this, but like, yeah, maybe that's another two or three. But like, as an actor, he was probably pulling in six or seven million in the mid-80s, right? He was like the big time. So you gotta figure 10 million of that 31 was just a paste alone. Like easily, man. That's all guessing, of course. But yeah.

Nic

I mean, this has his fingerprints all over it. Yeah. So.

Steve

Fingerprints, his taint, sweat, everything.

Nic

This is maybe, it's one of the sweatiest movies I've ever seen, although I am constantly proven wrong by that with subsequent films. So we'll see about that. But yeah, so let's start it off. This movie could not have gotten you any more fired up. If you're a big, and I haven't watched the other Rockies recently, so I'm not like, Ooh, I just finished three last year. Yeah, it's like, whatever. But you don't need to, it doesn't matter, because they all have very hearty recaps of previous films.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

Each non-Rocky I film has a whole.

Steve

Lot of footage of other Rocky films. Exactly. Yeah, that 91 minutes is also deceptive, 'cause how much of that was newly filmed for this movie?

Nic

So we were talking about, is this a movie? Maybe it's a video collage of some sort, right?

Steve

It's some kind of art project.

Nic

But you're in the theater, Rocky III ended. The beginning of it starts off with fucking Eye of the Tiger, which was in Rocky III. So it's not a new song, but it's even better 'cause you've had time to learn to love it.

Steve

Right, yes, exactly.

Nic

So everyone in the theater starts off with Eye of the Tiger, and it has this cool American flag and USSR flag.

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

Boxing gloves that come at each other and explode in the shittiest looking way.

Steve

Well, and you notice really only the Soviet glove explodes. Oh, yeah. That's right. The American glove stays perfectly intact. Yeah, exactly. Only the Soviet glove explodes. Little foreshadowing.

Nic

Oh, man. And we start off and we have a montage basically of the clubber lang fight, from Rocky 3, who was Mr. T. That's right. And Rocky Unit and all these different cuts between the fighters and the ring and the corner guys and then the people in the crowd. And this happened so many times throughout the movie where he loves just bopping back and forth between different facial expressions, pausing at weird times, freeze framing at the end of a montage.

Steve

Right. That was sort of-- 'cause the montage fairly quickly melds into It's so funny because they make it look like it's literally immediately after the club are laying about and Apollo and Rocky are walking maybe into the dressing room. But it turns out, no, no, we've moved some indeterminate amount of time ahead. And Rocky and Apollo are getting ready to spar. They're getting ready to practice. They've got like the little belts on with the, you know, sort of the cop or whatever.

Nic

And they've got their-- They're incredibly oiled here at this point.

Steve

Yeah, they are very wet looking. It's a little gross. And they're talking about, you know, are we too old? Are we not too old? Or Apollo, I'm not too old. Rocky's like, Are you sure about that, Apollo? By the way, this is a guy who had a heart attack He has many names, right? He is Robert Balboa, but everybody calls him Rocky. And then he's, I know that his nickname is the Italian Stallion, but the fact that his, ostensibly his best friend in the world, Apollo Creed, exclusively refers to him as simply Stallion. That's a choice. I'm not really sure what that choice says about Rocky and Apollo, but it's a choice.

Nic

I think they're hinting at what it says about Rocky and Apollo.

Steve

Fair enough.

Nic

And Rocky has this incredible, like, training outfit on, with this ridiculous cod piece and everything. And they're circling each other, like, oh, I don't know if you washed up, whatever. And right as they're both about to simultaneously punch each other, it just freezes.

Steve

It also looks like if those two punches landed, you now have two unconscious men in the ring. 'Cause that is like, they are full right hooks into each other's temples. Like, that is not-- I know Rocky supposedly, right, the whole lore of him is that he can take any beating. Yeah. But that just looked brutal. Yeah. So there's that. So so they do that. And that's how that little kind of montage sparring session ends, which really seems to exist only to like remind us that these guys are continuing to age. Apollo is retired, although he was in Rocky three, right? He retired after the bout at the end of Rocky two, I think. Yeah. So we're reminded that Apollo is retired. We're reminded that Rock is the champion. Right. And that's sort of like all that exists. So now we cut and Rocky is driving home in his Lamborghini, which I got to be honest, Lamborghini is an awesome car make, don't get me wrong, like beautiful, whatever, but this car looked like a Ford Fiero. I don't know why it didn't look impressive to me. Yeah, but like, I know, you know, supercars in the 80s looked awesome. Like if you want to see the Robin, what is it, Robin's Ferrari from Magnum PI that drove around the world. Like, you know, that's a great looking car, right? Like the Testarossa.

Nic

I don't want to be a basic bitch, but I like them to be red.

Steve

Yes, you know, agreed.

Nic

Like, I think that just adds a lot.

Steve

Or yellow. Like, I feel like red or yellow is legit. After that, it's like too boring and like weird. It shouldn't be black. That's lame. Yeah.

Nic

Yeah, it wasn't the cool, I mean, look, I'll take it, but it's a lame. Do you think it was a Stallone was like, oh, I don't know if we have a Lamborghini in the budget. We've got to pay the writer. We've got to pay the director. We've got to pay the.

Steve

It's like, I got a car at home. I'll bring my guinea in.

Nic

So he gets back to his house and he's in this big, Mansion and everything.

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

The life of a, of a champion boxer and everything. And he gets in there and it's Uncle Paulie's birthday.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

Yeah. And it looks like it's 11 30 at night, but it's probably like 6 15.

Steve

But it is December. Right. Or at least late in the year. It's, it's sometime late in the year. We're not 100 sure yet, but it's like, yeah. So being dark early makes sense, but it is like pitch black.

Nic

Yeah. You get the impression it's super dark, but I do love he gets there and Adrian, his wife is like, where have you been? And he's like, It's like, getting punched.

Steve

Yeah. It's like, there, I, you know, look.

Nic

I love the dumb guy stuff that he says. He's like the dumb guy philosopher in all these films, which is what makes it so entertaining. Because sometimes it works and sometimes you're just like, oh man.

Steve

And I wonder, God, how do I say this without just alienating people left and right? What is Sylvester Stallone going for with this? Is Rocky supposed to be, 'Cause it's been a long time since I saw the first one, so maybe there's better explanation in the first one. But like, is he supposed to be punch drunk in a lot of ways? And therefore, and the fact that he takes these beatings is kind of what makes him talk the way he talks and think the way he thinks. Or is he like, did he start as like a sub 70 IQ and it's just like, boxing is the only thing he can do?

Nic

Yeah, I mean, it's like, really hard to please himself.

Steve

It's so dumb that it's strange.

Nic

'Cause there's no real noticeable change in how he's talking in Rocky IV, Rocky V versus Rocky I.

Steve

No, exactly. It's not, there seems to be a progression, but it's like, He really just is almost slurring his words. It's like, All right, I guess that's--.

Nic

What if there's a boxer that started off already punched as much as you could be punched?

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Oh, good stuff.

Steve

So yeah, so Paulie is there. It's his birthday. They've been waiting for Rock to come home, and he does, and he's super excited. He's more excited about the birthday than Paulie is. And I should mention too, Robert Jr. has got like a video camcorder or something, VHS camcorder, with the brightest spotlight on the front of it, just putting it in everybody's face. It does also appear that that's the only light on in the house. The rest of the house is completely dark. So then Adrian comes out with the candles, the cake with the candles to blow them out and everything.

Nic

Wait, Adrian doesn't come out with the cake.

Steve

Oh, no, that's right. Oh, my God.

Nic

You go to see the cake. So out with the cake comes this absolute dog shit robot. Not that it was bad technology for the time, but as far as a device in this film, that is like a season seven of ALF type decision to bring a goddamn talking robot into the franchise. And this robot comes in, and it looks like, you know, every drawing of every Screech's robot from Saved by the Bell, every fictional robot.

Steve

It's like a mantis head. It's almost like the grays, the kind of alien look, you know, just very strange robot.

Nic

And it's holding a birthday cake that has a super creepy looking portrait of Paulie in it. Yes. Like trying to be too accurate. It's like just do a cartoon style picture of him. But yeah, this robot is immediately in the mix, and his birthday gift is this robot. Paulie keeps saying, oh, I wanted a Ferrari. Hey, Rock, I thought you were gonna get me a sports car. And he's like, no, instead I got you something that you don't understand and don't want.

Steve

Would never want. Right. So there's this robot and it's like talking to Paulie and like offering him to get him stuff or whatever. But before he can blow out the candles on the cake that the robot brought out, little Robert Jr. decides to for whatever reason spray whipped cream all over the cake and in Paulie's face and everybody chuckles about it. And I would have caught a thrashing, I think, if I'd done that. Yeah, that's so weird.

Nic

That kind of good-natured fun. Rocky's like, hey, I don't have to clean it up. I got someone to do that for me.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Yeah, that was. That was wild. And then, okay, we feel like, all right, at least we're done with the cake part of this movie. But no, we're not.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Because Adrian is in the bedroom, and Rocky comes into the bedroom carrying the most insane cake I've ever seen in my life. The cake. It looks like a wedding cake has a bride and groom figurine on it.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Who are both in boxing gloves and they're inside a boxing ring.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And he proceeds to tell Adrian, he's like, oh, I know it's almost our ninth anniversary. Yeah, yeah. You know the traditional ninth anniversary gift, a discreet warning to your wife that she could be punched at any time. Like, what the hell?

Steve

My question is, was this the cake topper? Were they doing the like anniversary from the cake topper from their wedding? Dude.

Nic

But the implications, I mean, this shows you how different 1976 is to 2025, right?

Steve

85, but, like, I know, but if.

Nic

That was the cake chopper from their original one, sorry.

Steve

I'm like, yeah, I'm playing. You're over here doing math. I don't know.

Nic

But, yeah, it was such a weird thing. And then he buys her this watch that, like, wraps all the way up her arm.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

Which maybe is an expensive watch. I'm sure it was at the time, but you just gave her brother a robot that I'm sure costs a lot.

Steve

More than 10 grand or something.

Nic

Right.

Steve

I mean, and, and, and look, it is, first of all, it's the most 80s ass looking watch I've ever seen in my life. Horrible. And also, why does he keep calling it her prize? He keeps saying, Open your prize. Open your prize. Your prize?

Nic

Fuck. I'm a prize fighter. All I know is prize.

Steve

It almost seems like he literally doesn't know the word present. And he's just using the word prize, 'cause that's all he understands about what a gift can look like.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Damn idiot. Anyway, so after Adrian and Rocky have their little moment with her watch, and she's very grateful and everything, we cut to Apollo Creed in the pool at his house, playing with his dogs.

Nic

How fun does that look?

Steve

So much fun. The dogs are jumping. He's playing fetch with them. They're jumping in the pool and jumping back. It's like three big, like, like Goldens or something. Really great looking dogs.

Nic

And the official dog of having a good time.

Steve

Yeah, absolutely, the Golden. Yeah, second follow up though, maybe the Labrador Retriever.

Nic

Yeah, for sure.

Steve

Yeah. So anyway, but he's got a little TV, a little CRT 13 inch television. Doesn't appear to be plugged into anything, doesn't have any rabbit ears on it. But hey, it's working and it's showing like this news article, or not news article, this news report on TV. And it's all about Ivan Drago and the Russians are finally coming to America, they're gonna participate, in professional boxing for the first time. This is obviously back in the Cold War, the USSR, everything. And they were participating in the Olympics back then. But there was always a lot of question marks about, you know, whether they were doping or what kind of training programs that the Soviets were using. So lots of open questions. But we see information about both Ivan Drago and his wife, whose name I forget, but played by Bridget Nielsen, Ludmila, I think was is the character's name. But anyway, she is a gold medalist swimmer. He is a gold medalist amateur boxer. And now he's gone coming over to join the professional boxing ring. So this is what Apollo sees. And of course, the Russian, the Soviet sort of manager of Drago is like, we want him to fight the champ, Rocky Balboa, right away. That's what we want to have happen.

Nic

They're coming after Rocky. They're bringing their best guy to the US for the first time. And we get a cool little sequence of just showing the power of Yvonne Drago, because they have this kind of press event. So it's basically Yvonne Drago and then 40 guys in white lab coats with the computer system from Halloween 3, Season of the Witch. That they had to destroy at the end. And this part killed me too. This is another thing where it's like, why did you say it that way? So they have this punching measuring thing, and Drago's punching it to show how many PSI his punches are. And his manager-promoter guy's like, the average boxer in professional boxer has a punch strength of 700 PSI. And then Drago throws one punch, And it said 1,850, and he said, Drago has an average of 1,850 PSI. It's like an average of one? Come on, do we know anything about fucking sample sizes here? Steve and I are both statistics guys. This made me sweat.

Steve

I didn't love it, but I also didn't love the implication that the guy is actually punching with one ton of pound per square inch. Just give me a break. Make it more realistic. Oh, if the average is like 807 or whatever they said, make him like 1,200. That's still super impressive and doesn't sound ridiculous.

Nic

And then like later, you know, we'll get to it. But yeah, he's adding like 200 PS 100 every single time. It's so funny. It's so good.

Steve

But it's also, you know, they claim up and they're asked by the American press, you know, is there any blood doping or steroid use? No, no, no, no, no. He's completely naturally trained.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Right. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Nic

And the guy says, and there's like different very good like declarations about the Russian here.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So one of the things He's like, whatever he hits, he destroys.

Steve

Right. Yeah. Well, they also, I want to make, because it changes later, they do call him the Siberian Express in the news program that Apollo watched right before we get to the train. I just want to mention it because later he has a completely different nickname. But it is the Siberian Express, is supposedly what he's called in that news program.

Nic

Nice.

Steve

So now we cut back to the Balboa house, where Apollo has come to talk to Rocky and Adrian. And they're chatting about Drago and about what to do. And Apollo is basically asking Rocky, Hey man, don't fight him. Let me fight him. They want to do an exhibition. I want to come out of retirement, whoop this kid's ass, show everybody, I still got it, show everybody that the Soviets ain't nothing. Let me do that. And Adrian is concerned. She's like, Apollo, you retired five years ago. Are you sure this is a good idea? But he is raring to go. And here we see momentarily Paulie's interaction with his birthday gift again. It's gotten weird, Nic. It's gotten really weird.

Nic

It is weird.

Steve

Because now the voice of the robot has somehow been reprogrammed to be this, for lack of a better word, sort of sultry female voice. It's like, hi, Paulie. Yeah. I got your beer for you. And it's like, oh my God. I'm very uncomfortable by all this.

Nic

It is, but it's totally what Paulie's dream of the good life would be, right? You got your sexy robot bringing you a can of Stroh's that you're drinking out of a champagne flute. I'm trying to say, oh my God, it's so funny. Yeah. So Rocky, like, his getting deep with Apollo, and he's like, oh, you sure it's him that you wanna fight? 'Cause I think you're trying to fight you. It's funny, like, the movie would take something that's normally an implied message of it and just punch you in the face with it at 1,850 PSI.

Steve

It's called eschewing subtext and just having everything just on the tail. It's what you do when you're teaching a kindergartner to read, is you put all of the subtext in so there is none. That's what we're looking at here. We're looking at the My First Reader version of a movie, basically.

Nic

Oh my God, dude. It's so funny. Oh, I thought a subtext was when I told my wife to pick me up a 12-inch meatball from the sandwich shop.

Steve

There we go. So Apollo and Rocky then are watching one of their old bouts. I guess this is something that retired boxers do is watch each other getting beat up.

Nic

And they were showing a little restraint because they weren't doing the thing where they're just air punching while they're watching it on TV.

Steve

Shadowboxing, yeah, exactly. And they chat some more. And it's basically still Rocky kind of essentially trying to convince Apollo that maybe it's not such a good idea. Are you sure you want to do this? And Apollo is like, no, man. Like, I haven't given up. You might give up. I haven't. Whatever. Then we cut to an Apollo and Drago press conference. Right. So now it's, it's so Apollo. And in his corner are Rocky and Duke, the trainer. And then I think Paulie might also be there. Yeah, but definitely, like, he's got kind of his people on his side. And then on Drago's side are his wife, Ludmila. And then he's got this manager guy whose name I don't remember, but basically the guy who speaks better English, I think, than, than either Drago or his wife. So he talks. It works for them a lot. And it gets squirrely, it gets a little froggy, they get a little jumpy with each other.

Nic

It's good. I mean, Apollo Creed, what a great character. I mean, Carl Weathers, he's the Simon Phoenix of this film, right?

Steve

Except not a psychotic.

Nic

But I mean that Stallone can't, he does not have the charisma to do this heavy lifting, that he needs a Wesley Snipes, he needs a Carl Weathers to just come in and he's fucking awesome. I mean, that character is so believable as like a, the way a real guy would like act and make decisions and stuff.

Steve

And I always felt like Apollo Creed was intentionally this sort of blend of like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson, right? Like he was supposed to be like Iron Mike in the first two movies where it was almost unbeatable, but he's also got all the swagger, all the foot like a butterfly sting, like a bee swagger of Muhammad Ali. And it's a great character. Apollo Creed's a fantastic character. But yeah.

Nic

And there's some good, yeah, there's some good back and forth, you know, and, Drago doesn't speak during this whole time.

Steve

True.

Nic

So Apollo, and he's just riffing or whatever, and they ask Drago a question, he doesn't say anything, and he's like, the man's tongue didn't come through customs. Like, he has all these zingers, dude. He is firing off. It's really good.

Steve

It's like the original roast comedy roast. Yeah.

Nic

And then at the end of the press conference, the last thing is that Drago rips down like a cardboard cutout of Apollo Creed. And then it's like one of those dumb freeze frames again. And I swear to God, We had Sylvester Stallone in real life editing this movie. It was like, Hey, hey, hey, come see this, guys. Hey, I figured out how to do a freeze frame.

Steve

Oh, I'm gonna do a ton of these freeze frames.

Nic

I love this freeze frame. It's all over this movie.

Steve

It really is.

Nic

It's so good.

Steve

I also imagine him acting a little bit like, and this is a fictional representation, but a little bit like Ron Burgundy when he's gotten his makeup on. It's like, everybody, come look how good I look. Like, I feel like Stallone was always just calling people into the edit bay to be like, Hey, hey, hey, look how good this looks.

Nic

Like, oh, we got-- and those are like all the effects that would have been built in on his son's shoulder-mounted VHS camcorder, you know, the editing functions.

Steve

Oh, my God.

Nic

Oh, man. So now we've got our fight.

Steve

Our first bout of the movie.

Nic

Yeah, the exhibition.

Steve

Yeah, the exhibition.

Nic

And Ivan Drago.

Steve

We're at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, which is where we're gonna have this fight. And it's very interesting. Drago's clearly not aware of what's about to happen, but he's like, like, you know, essentially in this, like, we don't know where he is. Looks like, quote, unquote, backstage, kind of where it looks like he is, but he is standing in a, in a squared Circle in a ring. That ring starts rising up into the actual Arena where this is happening while James Brown is performing Living in America.

Nic

Now, I love James.

Steve

I love James Brown, and I love the song.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Did it need to be in our movie for three minutes and 10 seconds?

Nic

I feel like Stallone is one of those guys who might be I'm like, well, in my heart, I'm really a musician. Like one of those guys where he's like, oh, I never cut a song off. Because I was thinking that during all the montages in this movie, I'm like, oh, they went fully to the whole song fading out.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And everything. I do love seeing James Brown, although I, he probably also had to give his wife the, you might get punched cake at some point. But during this whole scene, it was so funny. Apollo's dance moves and the pageantry and the fireworks and stuff, my wife She was cackling during this scene. She had never seen the movie.

Steve

She was like, oh my God.

Nic

So, I mean, this is really some good '80s to be laughed at if nothing else.

Steve

Yes, absolutely. And it really is. He performs the entire song. When they introduced Drago, this is where I said that his name changed. They introduced him as the Siberian Bull. And that's why there's a huge bull behind Apollo that sort of falls apart at one point. It's very odd and it's not real clinical. But it's because he originally was called the Siberian Express, but then when they intro'd him, you know, like in this corner, the Von Drago, the Siberian Bull, or whatever, and they call him the Siberian Bull. Yeah. That's why there's a big bull head behind the stage that, like, collapses and falls apart, which looks dumb as hell.

Nic

Also... Apollo had, like, 90 nicknames when they're in.

Steve

They did. One of which, by the way, I'd love to just take a quick second to ask you your opinion on. The Count of Monte Fisto?

Nic

That sounds like one of the joke porno titles they would come up with in Clerks 2.

Steve

It sounds like something Dirty Randy and Raffi did in the league, to me, is what it sounds like. It's really pornographic. Like, it's-- I don't know why that is.

Nic

The account of Monty Fisto.

Steve

That's so bad. But he was also like, you know, a few other names. And Rock even says something to him, like, you, got enough nicknames? You know, like, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah.

Nic

And the way that everyone looked was, They all had these American flag stuff. And then Apollo's crew, who was in his corner, were wearing red, white, and blue Hugo Boss t-shirts.

Steve

Hugo Boss sweatshirts.

Nic

Notable designer of the uniforms for people who are fighting against the USSR. So I think that worked out well.

Steve

It certainly was accurate. Not as much white or blue in those outfits. A little bit of red. A little bit of red on the shoulders on the upper arm. But yeah.

Nic

Here we get Ivan Drago's first line. The fight's about to start and they do the glove thing. So Creed sees that he can't smash his gloves, you know, when they do the glove fist bump thing, he hits his gloves down and his arms do not move. So he's like, oh, and Drago gives us a nice, you, will lose.

Steve

You will lose.

Nic

Oh my God. And the announcer, you know, I can't get over the size of this Russian. These things that they're saying are so funny.

Steve

And he is, he's huge. And Carl Weathers is not a small man and Drago's still a head taller than him. I mean, that's really, you know.

Nic

They do a smart job of not giving us actual height-weight stats, which I think is very, very brilliant, because someone else would look up Sylvester Stallone height and weight, and it would blow this movie away for them.

Steve

Yeah. So the bout happens. Apollo and Drago are fighting, and it starts off. Apollo's doing a lot of dancing around and kind of being really floating and kind of whatever, and he did a little jab-jab, you know, doing all this kind of stuff. And it was like, by the end of the first round, Drago has landed a few punches that clearly show he's not taking this like an exhibition. Yeah. It actually gets to the point where the corner's clear to like separate the boxers and stuff. And basically in between rounds, Apollo's already cut. He's bleeding, but he says to Rocky, he's like, you don't throw that towel. And no matter what happens, you don't throw in that towel. And so, you know, I think within a few rounds here, like Rocky's holding the towel, kind of like thinking about whether he should throw it in and he doesn't. And Odd Drago just, I mean, good.

Nic

God, it's like-- this is very brutal.

Steve

For a PG movie.

Nic

Yes. Incredibly disturbing.

Steve

This is after the PG-13 rating had been invented. We'd already had PG-13 movies. 13 movies come out in 1984. So the fact that this was a PG is an interesting choice, I guess, because it's, quote, sports, right?

Nic

Yeah, right. Yeah. Sports violence is different. But, man, this is very graphic. And then again, some great work by director Sylvester Stallone cutting back and forth between the various faces, including horrifyingly, Apollo's poor wife in the crowd, who had shown earlier, like, meeting Drago's wife, who was being cordial. I mean, that was, like, not a Sinister thing. Good luck. Yeah. But Jesus. So Apollo, that final blow is really, really rough, and he just falls straight down on his face.

Steve

Clearly knocks him out cold when he gets the hit. So when he falls, there's no, he doesn't, you know, stop himself or whatever. Everybody rushes into the ring and is, like, trying to give him air and, like, whatever. And Drago kind of looks over at one point and catches Rocky's eye, and Drago says, if he dies, he dies. It's very, very good stuff. Really important screenwriting there by Sylvester Stallone.

Nic

I would love the outtakes of this movie, just the times. Where Dolph Lundgren's like, if he dies, he's-- I'm sorry, guys. I forgot my line. He has one line every 15 minutes in this movie.

Steve

No, doctorate in chemistry holding Dolph Lundgren did not screw up his lines, I assure you. I think it's a chemistry doctor. It's something like that.

Nic

It is really funny that in real life, Dolph Lundgren is the smart guy, and he's probably the one who's the natural athlete, and Stallone is onroids to look like Rocky. In real life. And he's the dumb guy.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

It's pretty funny.

Steve

So we cut to something that we love here on Two Dads, One Movie. Seems to happen all the time. But a funeral, and again, yet again, a funeral. It's Carl Weathers' funeral again. We've seen this before.

Nic

Carl, man.

Steve

We're Carl, man.

Nic

We need a movie where Carl Weathers lives.

Steve

Not anytime soon. So we're at Apollo's funeral. Sorry about that. And then, It's basically just like, I mean, it's a pretty standard funeral scene and, you know, Rocky's kind of talking to Apollo, Apollo's remains or whatever, and, you know, talking about how he's gonna like make it up to him basically, right, is what's happening there.

Nic

Yeah. And immediately, you know, the media, we're getting kind of a combination of like the spinning newspaper magazine articles.

Steve

Little bit of a montage.

Nic

Press conferences. Another montage, geez. And it's a combination of Rocky being blamed for what happened to Apollo and then the speculation of like, well, Rocky's He's gonna fight Drago now. Yeah, Drago wants Rocky.

Steve

And it's because he did in the first place. Right, they specifically mentioned that basically the, it basically talks about US the boxing authorities. I don't know if this is supposed to be like IBC, WBC, the WBA, like whoever it is, but like wherever Rocky's belt is with his title, because there's multiple boxing organizations, right? So whatever it is, they're saying they're not gonna sanction any fight with Drago in it after what happened. Like Drago is basically not welcome to fight in the United States. Yeah. And certainly not professionally and efficiently.

Nic

I mean, good for them for being moral, as always.

Steve

Right. You always trust large sporting organizations to do the right thing. So Rocky then basically gives up his title. He gives it up completely in order to be able to fight Drago, which makes no sense whatsoever, but he does agree to that. And so a lot of the headlines are all about Rocky giving up the title and whatever. And then we cut to another press conference.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

So now we've got, They got Rocky with Duke and Polly with him. And then Drago with his wife and his manager. And they're sitting there talking about Rocky and Drago fighting. And they ask Rocco, what wins the fight? He goes, December 25th in Russia. Why on Christmas Day? That's when I was told it would be. That's it. He apparently had no influence, no input. Just go be here on Christmas to fight.

Nic

And it's like-- Because that's the thing that happens. You have leverage in that situation. You're not a coward if you can't make it across the world on the most important, like family day of the year in your country.

Steve

Super strange.

Nic

I like the banter again at this stuff where they were kind of talking about, well, your country does this, whatever. So everyone's like saying stuff back and forth. And one of Drago's person says something about like, well, you're violent government. And then Paulie was like, Hey, well, you call my government, that's one last straw now. I'm not gonna take this. I don't know, Paulie.

Steve

Yeah, I know, right? Like, look, no, no, I don't think the Soviets had a lot of leg to stand on when it came to calling governments violent, but that doesn't mean it's also, yeah.

Nic

This was, I mean, This whole movie was basically two of the same things going at each other. So Rocky had just agreed with this. And now arriving back at the house, not in a Lamborghini, but in a Nissan 300Z.

Steve

Is that what it was?

Nic

Is Adrian. Hell of a car, beautiful car, but it's not a multi six-figure sports car.

Steve

It's not Italian, is I think the point.

Nic

I mean, it's like getting a boxing cake and a wraparound watch instead of a robot. So there's all this press at her house, and she finds out that Rocky had just agreed agreed without asking her.

Steve

Do they not have a gate to their driveway? 'Cause they're literally on their property, all of them. There's like 30 different people. They're all yelling, why is Rocky doing this? What's happening? Are you going to Moscow too? And she's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Nic

I know, they're very accessible.

Steve

Let me get my shotgun. I'm gonna stand my ground with you people. I get the fuck off my property. It's ridiculous.

Nic

It'll zoom out and it's just like the crappy Philadelphia neighborhood he grew up in with that house. I wanna stay in the old neighborhood.

Steve

I bought two apartment buildings and kicked out 17 families so I could build this place, you know, like a real Philadelphian. Anyway.

Nic

And Rocky had, wait, back to the 300Z real quick. When he pulled in, there was a scene where he was like kind of washing his Lamborghini when Apollo called him earlier. And then there was like a red, another Lamborghini or Ferrari in the background.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So he had a backup sports car.

Steve

And he has to have his. Well, that's for Robert Jr. Someday. He's nine now.

Nic

You'll keep washing that'll be yours someday.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

So, yeah, I mean, shitty husband work by Rocky. I think, and I wrote down this, at this point in the film, Rocky is the villain.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

He's the guy that failed to save his friend's life during an exhibition.

Steve

Could have thrown the towel.

Nic

If you and I were playing pickup basketball at 24 Hour Fitness and I saw you having a heart attack, I'd be like, well, Steve told me he didn't want to be subbed till the fourth quarter. Like, come on, man. Like, that's not being a good friend. And then he just makes this decision against his wife's will.

Steve

Not even telling her. He couldn't even know what her will is. Now, look, I'll tell you what, Any wife's answer would be, Fuck no, don't do that. But he didn't even tie her.

Nic

Oh, you killed your friend doing the same thing? Fuck is wrong with you?

Steve

So they're having a conversation, right? So he gets home, he walks in, and Adrian's like at the top of the stairs, and he's like, starts up the stairs, but basically they're having this conversation where he's at the bottom of the stairs and she's at the top. And it's, he's basically, she's like, why do you have to do this? And he goes, oh, no. He doesn't need to do this. Like, there's no reason.

Nic

There's nothing compelling him to do it.

Steve

Like, I am not usually one of the people that's like, oh, like the wet blanket in the movie that has to to, you know, that tries to tell the adventurer and to not go on the adventure. I side with the wet blanket. No, I do here.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Like, I'd rather not have the movie and let Rocky continue to, like, be the father that his son needs, sort of, because he's probably a father, too, but whatever. But it's, like, so dumb that his reasons for having, for having to needing to do this fight make no sense at all. I cannot believe. I think. I think I lose so much respect for Adrian later when she shows up in Russia. I know if she had just watched the match from home and been like, like, with a double frickin tumbler of whiskey and a frickin cigarette. Like, I would be so much more respect for Adrian.

Nic

And you could even show her at home, like, getting excited and getting behind him on TV and spending Christmas with her kids.

Steve

Don't co-sign this bullshit. Like, you know what I mean?

Nic

It's crazy. Adrian, definitely not a wet blanket. She's a blanket of reasonableness that Rocky is avoiding. He's refusing to sleep with that blanket. It's ridiculous. So Rocky needs to go do some thinking.

Steve

Right, so.

Nic

The only way he can.

Steve

So he gets into his music video.

Nic

So we have another montage here. And he gets into his Lamborghini, which has a vanity plate because he's a notably a left-handed fighter.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

But you can't fit the entire world, the entire word, Southpaw, on a license plate. So it says, Softpaw. Just say S-T-H-P-A-W. You can do fewer letters. You fucking idiot.

Steve

You also could have done S-O-U-T-H-P-A. And I feel like it would have worked better, Southpaw, right?

Nic

You know, like, But he does have a lot of cars, so maybe I'll have some fun.

Steve

Well, that'd be even worse thing, 'cause then it should be sthpaw1, sthpaw2. That's true, right? It should be, but yeah, anyway. No, one more reason that Rocky's not smart. But yeah, we get, I see I did the math here, a four minute and 26 second long music video of him just driving around and thinking about Apollo and thinking about Drago and driving around and thinking about Apollo and running on the beach and hugging in the surf.

Nic

The Apollo hugs are so fucking weird.

Steve

It really, like, look, it's clear these guys were in love and that's fine, but I wish I wish the movie was more explicit about it. Because he's clearly a-- He just said.

Nic

That to Adrian, where he's like, Look, I love Apollo in a way that you couldn't understand. And it could even just be sports love or whatever on the screen. Who cares?

Steve

Could be the Ryan song kind of thing, right? Maybe.

Nic

But, yeah, but he's clearly thinking about Apollo a thousand times for every one time he thinks about Adrian.

Steve

It's pretty wild, yeah. So, yes, we have that. And then we cut next to Rocky, basically saying goodbye to Robert Jr. Just like, Hey, I gotta go do this. I won't be here for Christmas because I'm an idiot, you know, whatever. But of course, he can't actually say goodbye to Adrienne. He sort of waves to her. She's up in the window, 'cause she's pissed off as well she should be. But he gets into the cab or whatever to go to the airport. And then we cut to them arriving in the USSR.

Nic

So this part, I think, is where kind of, if you don't care that much about the plot or the Rocky movie, you could start here. This is like 48 and a half minutes in. When the plane lands in Russia, and we got the, In the burning hot, like this 80s shit playing. And it's like, this is kind of its own separate movie because we get the chunk of him preparing for the Drago fight. Because also, for the rest of the time, there's not that much mention of Apollo. Apollo was kind of left behind in the US.

Steve

And I would say, if you're not that into the plot, good news, it's done. The plot's over at this point. There is no more plot. Now there's just a fight. There's a training, and then there's a fight, and that's it. And so we are treated to, oh, I love Paulie. He like slips and falls in the snow at one point, but he's wearing a jacket that he clearly has just pinned like a don't tread on me flag on the back.

Nic

Holy shit. Oh, on the don't tread on me real tip real quick. This is pretty funny. So there's a guy, there's a guy in my neighborhood who has this big don't tread on me flag on a fence in front of his house and whatever. I don't care. He's a nice guy. I don't like being tread upon. But he built it, the flag is on a fence that the HOA made him build.

Steve

Oh. Oh, so the HOA made him build it.

Nic

So he tried upon by Barb and Carol of the HOA, but just not any tyrannical guys. So I love that, like, I will shoot a rocket launcher at the government, but also, yeah, these ladies can make me build stuff in front of my house.

Steve

It sounds like that flag should be altered slightly with the word please with a question mark at the end. Yeah. Don't tread on me, please. Like, maybe that would be better.

Nic

Tread on me, it's the only way I can get an erection.

Steve

Maybe tread on me, daddy.

Nic

But yeah, I love Polly. And I do love Paulie being like, oh, I really gotta stick it to these Russians. And he did that. So I wrote that down, too. That was super funny. And then Duke is kind of, they have these, the guy who takes them to the house is kind of like, Look, this has everything you asked for. And it's this frozen pipes, ice-encrusted cabin in the beautiful setting.

Steve

It's like an ice palace. It's like an ice palace or something, although that's not close to Moscow. So I don't know where the hell.

Nic

They are, but I know it looks like there's no, like, there's nothing near it. Right. And then he's also pointing to this Mercedes, which has these two shady characters who are like his KGB handlers who are gonna be following him everywhere.

Steve

Well, Hugo, they go. Yeah.

Nic

Here we get a little bit of Christmas, all right?

Steve

Okay.

Nic

We've got the Chipmunks Christmas song playing inside the cabin while Duke is playing chess against one of the Russian guys.

Steve

That's right, yeah.

Nic

Duke checkmates him just to show a.

Steve

Little, It seems like that it's actually like there is this man who seems like maybe he's the owner of the farm they're on that's being co-opted to put them in. That's who I think he's playing. It's the guy lives there. He was the one chopping firewood when they first showed up. Yeah, right. So I think he's the one, 'cause I think the dudes in the car just like, I don't know, I guess they stay in the car. Like, I don't know how that works. They freeze to death, but whatever. Asking way too many questions about this movie. But yeah, so we pretty quickly get to the first of the training montages then, 'cause there's actually two in Russia. And I forgot that when this started. It's the serious thing.

Nic

It's totally another, he's in the edit.

Steve

Bay, oh, I got these two training.

Nic

Montages and I love them both. I don't know what to do.

Steve

So this first one is not, it's a song that is just music. For the first time we get this big montage and it's not like a Papa Rock song. It's just like the score, but it is over three and a half minutes long. I got 336, I think I got. It's crazy. So that's him. And it is neat though. This is one of the pieces I really love and appreciate about this movie is showing that Rocky is performing like the same moves in exercise and training that Drago is. But Drago's are all like these complicated Nautilus equipment and things that are hooked up to machines. And Rocky's doing stuff like lifting carts or using an ox, you know, like whatever. Yeah, doing all this kind of stuff. It's like he has to do it more, quote, naturally, right? This is also this training montage where we do see that Drago is getting injections of something and we have to assume those are anabolic steroids. There's no other implication that he is on steroids and Rocky, of course, totes clean.

Nic

Oh, natural.

Steve

Totes clean.

Nic

You know what's very interesting is during this whole scene, and maybe I'm wrong and I missed it, but I don't think I did, you don't see him eating at all.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

You don't see anything that involves like his training meals. 'Cause that was a big thing in the early movies of him cracking eggs.

Steve

And the raw eggs and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. You're right. Not a single.

Nic

What is he eating? Yeah. You know, beef.

Steve

I don't know. It's just beef jerky.

Nic

But I do love, like, this. This always killed me, you know, and the cuts back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how it would be the exact same motion. At one point, Drago is sparring, and every time he punches his sparring partner, Rocky chops into a tree with an ax. So punch, chop, punch, chop, punch, chop. And then the guy. The guy gets knocked out, and then the tree starts falling over, and that was probably still. I'll be like, oh, you know, it's actually pretty deep if you think about it.

Steve

Yeah. That was the only part of it I really didn't like because I felt like it was too on the nose. I was kind of small movie.

Nic

I'm like, it's on the nose and probably up the nose, if we're going to be honest.

Steve

Yes. I'm sure plenty of that $10 million disappeared up Sly's nostrils. Then we cut to, oh, so wait, so that training montage sort of ends after over three and a half minutes. Yeah. And Adrian arrives. So now Adrian's in Russia and there's a little, like, read, I missed you. I missed you too. But that's basically Not very emotional. No.

Nic

And even when he first looked at her, he kind of had the look of like, oh great, my biggest hater.

Steve

Right. Yeah, exactly. The old ball and chain. So now, but now she's getting involved in the train because this is when he does the thing with like the ox cart and lifts it, which like, I don't know, that's a fulcrum. Like, is that really that hard to lift? There's three people in it. I don't know. It didn't seem, I don't know. But this one is actually, so this is the part. I love this song. This is like a five minute long, but this is heart on fire.

Nic

Oh my gosh.

Steve

Best song in the movie. Fantastic song. This is literally, I have a couple of playlists on Spotify that are all about songs from movies, you know, specifically. And this is like a major one that's on there because Hearts on Fire is just a great 80s rock song. Really fantastic. And again, another this time a little over four minutes. I got four, four, maybe 4 10, something like that. So, you know, in just the last few minutes, we've got almost 10 minutes of just training one time. Yeah, right. But it's basically done after that. Like, the music ends and the training montage is done. But Jesus, it's so much.

Nic

It's crazy. And at this point, like probably we've had 10 minutes of training montage. We probably had 10 minutes of flashback montage.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

Like, it's really for a short movie for a 90 minute.

Steve

And then, like, on the Drago Apollo bout probably took at least six or seven out after the James Brown music video. Like, like, with the actual fight.

Nic

Like that one is another.

Steve

Exactly. So, yeah.

Nic

And some of the things during this scene, one thing is that it does keep showing Drago increasing the PSI of his punches. And I think the highest I thought I saw it read was 2,450, which is now, you know, we're approaching like four times the strength of the average heavyweight boxer.

Steve

So, and again, over a metric ton now, we've actually gone further than just an imperial ton. We're now over a metric ton of pressure. Give me a break.

Nic

That's the only ton that they care about.

Steve

I guess that's Russians.

Nic

So then one of the other things, I think the end of this montage is Rocky's, he's jogging.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And he's jogging so fast that the KGB handlers like crash their Mercedes and they get in like an Austin Powers type situation between snowbanks. And then he sprints to the top of this mountain and starts screaming, Drago, bro.

Steve

Snow, that is, yes, you have snow boots on, which also must be hard to run, and it's probably part of the point, right? Makes it harder to run, so it's good, you know. But what if you slipped at all? What if you slipped even 20 feet? You gotta fight a fight. What are you doing? Get the fuck off the mountain, you idiot.

Nic

Yeah, and he still has to come down, which is probably more dangerous.

Steve

Well, I'm just gonna jump.

Nic

I heard that the town in Russia where that actually happened, there's like 40 people, the population in the town, and they asked, oh, do you want us to put a rocky statue at the top of that mountain? Like, I don't know, our town's had a lot going on. I don't think it's really worth commemorating.

Steve

That's right. I also think it was when he was filming this Stallone, you know, because obviously there's a camera and a helicopter, right, filming him on top of this thing. And I think it's while he was up there, he was thinking to himself, oh, man, what if I slipped? And the beginning of Cliffhanger was born. That's how it ended up. Ended up happening.

Nic

Bring that camera up here.

Steve

He, he, he did like a little, he did a little promo of Cliffhanger while he was doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. So, yeah, I love the chaperone crash. That's a great one, too, because it's just so dumb because they've got chains on their car.

Nic

They're.

Steve

They're used to driving in the snow, but he just, like, slips them and, like, goes down a little other direction, and they just slide out. It's so.

Nic

And then the guy gets out of the car and starts chasing him on foot. It's like, he's. What's he gonna do on that mountain? Like, he has to come down. You know where he's staying.

Steve

Also, you're wearing floor shimes. Like, stop. Like, you have, like, patent leather shoes on. Like, knock it off. Like, you're not going anywhere. Dude. Yum.

Nic

But we are mercifully through all this stuff and we're now at Christmas Day.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

Time for the bout. We're in the full arena here. There's media from around the world. They've all got their signs. We can see that there's a ton of interest internationally in this. There's a VIP seating section with the Russian brass and he's not mentioned by name, but we do have our second Two Dads, One Movie appearance of Mikhail Gorbachev, who we saw in the Naked Gun episode as well.

Steve

The Naked Gun and now Rocky IV and we'll see how many more. This isn't even just mentions of him. This is like literally an actor representing Mikhail Gorbachev, which is hilarious.

Nic

No, there's a prominent stain in this one.

Steve

I think they-- you- know what's funny though? The way they shot him was always from his right and slightly below. So it's like you wouldn't see that part of his head. There's always kind of the left, just above the forehead, was sort of where Mikhail Gorbachev's birthmark, famous birthmark is. So the way they shot this character, he was clearly referred to him as the party chairman or party secretary.

Nic

The general secretary.

Steve

General secretary, there you go. And so we recognize that's who it's supposed to be, but they don't, you don't ever see the part of his head where the birthmark would be.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

It's a very interesting choice, very, very deliberate to choose to shoot him that way.

Nic

Do you think he had the same agent as like John Elway? Remember they'd have those like the Tecmo Super Bowl game or whatever, but then John Elway isn't really in there because he wasn't licensed as a player even though all the other ones were. Like, I wonder if Gorby had the same representation.

Steve

I think he just took out international trademark on that smear, you know, that birthmark. So anybody used it had to pay him a royalty. Guilty. But, yeah, I do remember. Welcome to John Elway's quarterback.

Nic

Yeah, he had his own game.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Okay, so, yeah, this it. Polly says a very weird thing to him again. I do. I do like the movie showing an attempt of dumb guys, like, trying to, like, bare their souls to each other.

Steve

Be emotional and.

Nic

And trying to be as real as possible, because there's something very Charming about. About that. So Paulie's saying, as him and rock are, you know, walking out to the fight, and he's like. He's like, you know, rock, I'm not very good at saying stuff like this, but if I could just unzip myself and step out and be somebody else, I think I'd want to be you. It's like, very sweet. It's a terrifying thing. If I could just take my human skin suit off and if you're a great big fat person, I could.

Steve

Hey, Rocky, would you me? I'd me.

Nic

Hey, I got strong by pulling a bucket full of lotion up and down this pulley. Oh my God.

Steve

It's good stuff. But then they get out to the ring and they have to meet Drago and they go in the middle of the ring and Rocky, he is a lot smaller and that is the character. The character is meant to be not as big, not as fast, not as strong as his opponents, but he can take every beating in the world, right? And Paulie kind of turns and goes, Hey, you know that thing I said about wanting to Never mind. Drago is huge.

Nic

And there's a long, you know, there's a Living in America length sequence here where it's showing, you know, the Russian national anthem. And it is funny that it's like, oh my God, how creepy and propagandistic is it that everyone has to stand up and salute their country before this sporting event. Like, oh, these look at these fucking weirdos.

Steve

Never in a democracy.

Nic

And Drago now, I think, delivers there's his, like, third line of the movie before it starts.

Steve

Something like that.

Nic

Steve, you're. I'm not even gonna try. You're the man.

Steve

I must break you. Good line. It's a good line.

Nic

It is a good one.

Steve

It's definitely Drago's best line. Not that there are many to choose from.

Nic

He could have had all of his lines for the whole movie written on his hands.

Steve

That's wild. Easily. Yeah.

Nic

So we get into the action and we actually get a full round one. We're not in Montage mode yet. We get a full three minutes of which. Makes it feel, I think it's effective because it, with how many rounds there are, it gives you a real sense of like, oh, this is going on fucking ever.

Steve

When you hear that boxing, and this is something that I've never watched a ton of boxing, but I've obviously seen, you know, professional bouts and watch on TV and stuff. I'm never a huge fan, but like, every time I think about the fact that a boxing round is three minutes, it's a common, I think, I think round length doesn't sound like a lot of time. And then you watch two men hit each other for three minutes and you go, dude. God damn, this is literally forever. This is literally lasting forever. How are they doing this? To then do it 15 times, you know?

Nic

The thing that I always relate to the length of boxing matches, 'cause I would think the same thing. I'd be like, oh, three minutes is not bad. It's like, recall every time I've tried to dance at a wedding. Did I make it three minutes into the song, or was I huffing and puffing over by the punch bowl by the end of it?

Steve

Yeah, for sure.

Nic

So in round one, Like Rocky is just getting the shit beat out of him.

Steve

He's taking it.

Nic

I think he gets knocked down 700 times during this.

Steve

Is there no TKO? Cause I don't know boxing that well, but I always thought that if you were knocked to the mat, like off your feet on the mat, three times during the course of about, that was a technical knockout.

Nic

I think it's three and a round.

Steve

Oh, is it three and a round? Okay, see, that's what I don't know boxing well enough to know, but if that makes more sense, cause he definitely gets hit to the mat way more than three times. But yeah, I don't think we were ever shown three in a round.

Nic

Right. You know what though, that does prove that you're a good guy because you do not watch boxing on TV.

Steve

That's true. I'm not a scumbag. Do we have to include this movie in that because that scumbag Robert Jr.

Nic

Is watching boxing on TV. Scumbag son and that creep robot are watching boxing on TV.

Steve

Oh my God.

Nic

So yeah, I mean Rocky and Adrian's already crying here. So Rocky's been knocked down in the first round. Adrian's already already like, what the.

Steve

Well, because she just watched Apollo die not long before in the exact same situation.

Nic

And then, you know, the second round, Rocky takes like 50, 2500 PSI face.

Steve

Right? Yes. Which should crush your skull.

Nic

I don't know. Like, I I don't know, like, what it would.

Steve

Would have some effect, for God's sake.

Nic

Horrific. And he's getting the absolute crappie out of him. But again, we're show being shown, like, mostly this. Round. Towards the end of the round though, Rocky turns the tables and he's able to catch him in the eye and cut him on the eye.

Steve

And this is important because never during the Apollo Creed fight and obviously not to this point in Rocky's fight, did we see him cut at all? He never seemed to get any kind of injury from any of his sparring or training or anything. So like Drago is not used to bleeding it seems. Right. And they do make a big deal about that. But from the second round on, it's a lot of blur. There's just, there's just, there's a, we go through a lot of rounds and it's a lot of the same stuff. It's I punch you, you punch me, I punch you, you punch me. There's a whole bunch of back and forth. Both men are really getting beat up. But, you know, Rocky is Rocky, so he's. He's like, whatever. I. Drago is telling, you know, his trainer or whatever is kind of yelling at him, and he goes, like, he's not the. He said in Russian, but it's subtitles. Something along the lines of, like, he's not a man. He's, like, made of iron or something like that, or he's made of. He's made a machine. Yeah, something like that. Eventually, to the point where the crowd starts cheering for Rocky, which seems. More than a little unrealistic, even given this remarkable performance.

Nic

Totally.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

We've spent most of our life around die-hard sports fans. They're not easy to sweat.

Steve

No, not, and especially when you're talking nationalistically. When you get to the Olympics, the World Cup, things where there's like, you know, country honor on the line, it gets even worse. You don't easily switch.

Nic

And, you know, sometimes you do see the switch in an instance where their guy He's obviously fighting dirty. If Drago had thrown a fistful of unidentifiable powder into Rocky's eyes at some point in the fight, that would be a reason to turn on him.

Steve

So if he was a literal WWF villain, then that would have worked.

Nic

But this is just a strong lead from Bloodsport.

Steve

Here's the thing. It's an honest bout between these two fighters, and one Drago is clearly winning. If this goes to decision, it's Drago by a mile, right? And they even say that Duke even says, So what is that? You know, because at one point we cut and we actually get close to Rocky and in between rounds and he asks Duke, he's like, what round is it? He goes, 15th, last one. You got to knock him out or you lose.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And it's the absolute truth. Like the way boxing scoring works, Drago's landed probably 10 times the number of punches. Knocked him down. Knocked him down.

Nic

Exactly.

Steve

So on decision, this is a no brainer Drago win. So Rocky's one sort of chance to beat Drago is a knockout in the 15th round.

Nic

Yeah. And in the meantime, like the Russian brass is obviously they're getting pissed, right? So they're whispering each other and, and, and Gorbachev sends somebody down.

Steve

Well, it's the manager guy. It's the manager that came to the US.

Nic

He goes to, he goes to yell at him.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And he's basically in Drago's face. And then Drago does a move I really love.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

Is he kind of choke picks him up by the neck with his boxing glove on.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And holds him out. I mean, imagine that's a tough move there. And, really cool to see him him, like, and he's just kind of like, I don't, I fight to win for me. I'm not fighting for this, kind of like, I'm not fighting for the mother Russia or any of this.

Steve

And the reason that Ivan Drago was not in Rocky five is because he was sent immediately to the glue Factory and, yeah, and put, put out to pasture by the glue, the Soviet, the glue log. Yeah. The Soviet General Party or whatever did not like Drago's performance here, and he is gone. Yeah. So sorry to let you know, but, yeah. So we get out into the 15th round and there's, you know, it starts off kind of similar where, you know, Rocky's taking punches. Rocky's taking But he starts turning around. He's getting body blows in on, on Drago, into the gut, into the kidney, into the gut, you know, whatever. And then it's, you know, couple of, like, I think it's like a really big right hook or, no, it's, it's several, right? It's like right hook, right hook, right hook. And then I think he gets someone with the left. Yeah. And that's what actually puts Drago on the, on the mat. And the, and he counts him out.

Nic

Counts him out. You know, it's kind of interesting the way that the drama is handled here because Like by the time we're on the last fight and by the time Rocky kind of turns it around in the second round, we're like, all right, we know what's going to happen here. Right.

Steve

Well, it's a Rocky.

Nic

So it's hard to it's hard to kind of make it seem dramatic. I don't know what would have been real satisfying for the Russian to get like maybe if he got knocked unconscious or something because it was kind of one of those because that's not really how it works out. Like if you don't watch boxing on TV like me, if you're not a piece of shit like me, like it's not a guy just getting knocked out. Out on the ground for three, you know, 10 seconds. So they're normally stumbling around, whatever. But I was a little unsure at this point. I'm like, oh, is he getting back up or not? But it also what didn't feel suspenseful. I was just kind of like, can I be done watching this?

Steve

Yeah. So this is a thing, like, as an example, this is the kind of thing that a lot of people, you know, complain about, like, like soccer, the ending of soccer games, right? Where it's like, you don't know exactly when the ending's coming because only the referee is keeping the actual time. And so there's always, like, extra time added, and it's never exact. It's always like, you know, so you're waiting for the, the bell to ring, but you don't know how much activity is going to happen. Another goal could be scored, who knows? The 1980 Miracle on Ice, the US versus Russia, there was several goals scored, but the climactic victory of that game is a countdown of the clock, right? Because they were up and so they were just waiting to make sure, counting on the time to make sure the Russians didn't score again. So there is this thing where it's not like, I feel like baseball has the easiest moment that you can do right when you hit a home run to win the game kind of thing.

Nic

A basketball over time.

Steve

Yeah, basketball with like the last second, you know, half court shot, things like that. But, you know, games that don't have like sudden death or where the regulation is like, you know, based on the clock running out, it is a little strange. So yeah, he gets this great, great punch and he knocks him down and he counts him out and that's it. And the whole crowd is cheering for him, which again, I don't buy. I just don't buy it.

Nic

They might cheer just for like the competition.

Steve

It's a great route, right? They also just watch the great route.

Nic

They cheer just like, Hey, this was fair and square. These guys both leaving it all in the ring. Like we can applaud that.

Steve

That's okay.

Nic

We can cheer that. But yeah, it was weird. And so at this point, it was like the movie, it changed a couple times because we're done now. Gorbachev has this look on his face like he's gonna have several people killed, right? He's like, no, this is an embarrassment to my entire career. Entire country. And then Rocky is immediately, like, after getting punched in the head repeatedly for.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

However many minutes, like, an hour straight.

Steve

45 minutes worth of fighting time, right? Yeah.

Nic

Oh, my God. And then he comes out and he gives, like, a three minute speech at the end. And it's, again, great, smart guy, dumb guy stuff.

Steve

I also love that it's one of those moments in movies happens all the time where, like, a person will say something where the translator present and. Speak for, like, you know, 50 words. And then the translation is like, dude. And that's it. Like, one little type.

Nic

Yes, exactly. Yeah, that was really funny. So he's giving the speech, and he's just basically, you know, he's got the translator. He's like, I can change. You can change.

Steve

We can all change.

Nic

Does not mention Apollo at all.

Steve

Nope. Nope. This was for Apollo. Nope.

Nic

He gets a standing ovation. Ovation, okay, from the crowd, including a standing ovation from Gorbachev, right from the Soviet Union, who then, you know, allows all the other Russian brass to stand up and stuff. But the last thing that he says in this movie, very appropriately, is, My son watching at home should be going to bed. Merry Christmas. I love you. So there you go. Christmas movie.

Steve

Oh, my God. It's not even a movie.

Nic

And that's the end. And that's the end of Rocky IV.

Steve

Yes, it is. That is the end of Rocky IV. Okay, so you picked this one and I really want to hear your take before I give mine. So talk to me about it, man. What's your take on this?

Nic

So I don't know. I think your enjoyment of this film depends a lot on what you expect to get from it. Right? Like if you go to a super fancy restaurant, you spend like 75 bucks on a cocoa van or some like super, you know, some artistic, some very technical dish or whatever, you expect a certain thing. But if you go somewhere and they're like, Oh, they got carne asada fries for 8.50. This is a decent plate of carne asada fries, this movie. I think this movie, it actually kind of follows the trajectory of a Rocky fight. Me, as the audience, am Rocky, okay? Early in the film, I'm taking some punches, dude. This robot knocked the fucking wind out of me. I was like, I don't know if I can keep going. And there's different parts and parts I feel like maybe I'm coming back a little. I like Apollo. Like this. Oh, this was really cheesy. This caught me in the eye. But then by the end, you're feeling, like, powerful and everything. So I think this is super fun. Don't take this seriously. This is not anything to base your life on or to, you know, get any kind of real artistic fulfillment from. But I will say it is a hell of a lot of fun. And the 80s ness is so freaking fun.

Steve

Yeah, that's true.

Nic

Like, the montages are very funny. There's a lot to pick and choose from them. This is a decent one to have on in the background while you're just kind of bullshitting. With your friends, you know?

Steve

Could be, yeah, I can see it.

Nic

I think it could work in that sense. But if you haven't seen Rocky 4, that's your choice and I respect it. So I'm gonna go ahead and give Rocky 4 in the sense of it being like a decent dish of carne asada fries. I'm giving it a three and a half out of five.

Steve

Three and a half. That is a score that you have given. Okay, so my thing about Rocky 4, so I had actually seen Rocky 4 maybe four or five years ago. I drugged it back up, just kind of like, oh, I've seen Rocky 4 in forever. Watch it. And at the time, you know, it was enjoyable in the sense that, like, I, I, it was fairly short, and I finished the movie not feeling like that was a waste of time necessarily. Nothing like that. But I noticed at that time, like, man, there was a lot of, like, how much actual, like, movie was in this? Because there's a lot of montages, a lot of, like, just driving around an entire pop song or rock song plays. Like, this is just kind of weird, you know? So I was really paying attention to that this time. And my contention is that not only is this not a Christmas movie, it's It's not really a movie. It is two boxing matches and four music videos loosely tied together with a little bit of plot. So I went ahead and looked back through some of my other ratings to sort of like ground where I actually feel this one should live. And there is a movie that I have one rating I regret. I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, Nic, but I do regret one rating I gave. And that is when I look back at my take on They Live, I was very harsh on it as being not enough movie not enough plot, not enough happening. And I gave it a two out of five. And if I could go back and change my rating on they live, I would. I think I would be more like a three and a half is where I would be on that movie. But for, but based on the fact that I gave it a two and thinking about like why I gave that score to it, I am giving a one and a half out of five to Rocky of four. I'm not a fan. I thought I was. My, my memories are a fan. Yeah. Seeing this at eight or nine was great, but It is kind of a dogshit movie as far as movies go, in my opinion.

Nic

Totally.

Steve

You do get, I get the one and a half is mostly because the James Brown music video part of it is actually fantastic. I love the song Hearts on Fire. It's a fantastic song that I actively choose to listen to on several playlists I have. And the final bout and the thing with Drago, it's a good filmed fictional boxing match. It is fun. So there are pieces of it. Each of those things is worth about a half a point and like nothing else in the movie is, in my opinion. So that's where I'm at. So I'm at one and a half. You're at three and a half. So we are five out of ten on Rocky four, which is probably. I'm comfortable with that. I can live with that.

Nic

I'm okay with that. And I think, you know, for your reasons, your score makes a ton of sense, you know? So, geez, man, what a great dadvent calendar fun December we have had. But now we're at the end and we're on the last day of the year. We got to do something else for January. Do you have any ideas, Steve?

Steve

I do. I think what we're gonna do for January is we are going to visit one of the great actors of the era, and by great actors, I should change that, not great actors. One of the most fantastic movie stars of the era of the 80s and 90s, we've already seen him once in Terminator 2. We're going to spend all the month of January with one Mr. Arnold Schwarzenegger. We're calling it Janu Arnie. And we're going to watch four consecutive Arnold Schwarzenegger films. And the very first one in January, we're going to start with, we're going to start with this 1987 film, film from a director we've also already seen. Mr. John McTiernan, who directed Die Hard, also directed this movie. It stars alongside shorts nigger, a man we both love and have talked about several times, Carl Weathers. We're gonna see him again next week when we go to the South American jungle and we are hunted by the Predator. So we're gonna watch Predator from 87. I'll just, I'll just tell you straight up and down, like, if you go to my letterbox, you know, whatever, like, profile, this is one of my top four movies, like, in the letterbox thing. The Predator is one of my favorite movies of all time. I, you know, spoiler alert, I'm probably gonna give it five points unless something weird happens when I rewatch it.

Nic

But, like, I cannot wait.

Steve

Love this movie. Cannot wait to watch it with you. And it's just a fantastic way to kick off a celebration of Schwarzenegger films.

Nic

Beautiful, beautiful way to kick off 2026 with everyone.

Steve

Absolutely. That's a wrap. So if you like what you hear and we hope you do, please. Consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a five star review. It really helps new folks find the show. And be sure to check out our website at todadss1movie.com, that's the number two and the number one. On there you can contact us directly, you can find out all kinds of info about our episodes and the films we discuss, search through transcripts of the show, and much, much more. We'd also love it if you followed us on Instagram at todadss1movie. Once again, this has been Rocky IV, another episode of Two Dads, One Movie.

Nic

I'm Steve, And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks everyone.