Transcript

Worm (Rounders)

I mean, look at you. You domesticated yourself for this girl. No. You took yourself out of life. You walked the fucking line for her. And the minute you want a little of it back, she walks out on you. Just like the saying in the poker game of life, women are the rake. They are the fucking rake.

Mike McD (Rounders)

The fuck are you talking about? What's saying?

Worm (Rounders)

I don't know. Yeah, there ought to be one. You know what cheers me up when I'm feeling shitty?

Mike McD (Rounders)

What?

Worm (Rounders)

Rolled up aces over kings.

Mike McD (Rounders)

That right?

Worm (Rounders)

Yeah. Check raising stupid tourists and taking huge pots off them.

Mike McD (Rounders)

Yeah.

Worm (Rounders)

Stacks and towers of checks I can't even see over. Playing all night. High limit hold' em at the Taj. Where the sand turns to gold.

Mike McD (Rounders)

Fuck it, let's go.

Worm (Rounders)

Don't tease me.

Mike McD (Rounders)

Let's play some fucking cards.

Steve

It's two Dads, one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello, everybody. It's another episode of two Dads, one Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we're talking about the fantastic 1998 poker film Rounders, starring Matt Damon and Edward Norton and the incomparable John Malkovich. This is one that I've picked for us. It's a movie that I first saw. Gosh, I don't think I saw it in the theaters, but I would have seen it pretty much right after, like, as soon as it came out on, like, dvd, I would have seen it. I was in college at the time and, you know, I think the movement around Texas hold' Em poker being popular had already reached me before I actually seen the movie. But then watching the movie, it just, it just really made it even more that I just wanted to play poker all the time. And I was one of those kids in college that definitely played a bunch of poker whenever I could. Almost always hold them. Almost always are incredibly low stakes because we were college kids.

Nic

Oh, yeah.

Steve

So, you know, when you went all in, it was either. It was either you were, you know, pushing in all of your pretzel sticks or I think the pot got up to about five or six bucks, you know, so. But yeah, this is, this is a fantastic movie and I'm super excited to talk about it.

Nic

Yeah, I can't wait. Same as you, Steve. I watched this a ton, especially my early 20s, college, after college times. This movie is so quotable, it's so memorable. All the characters really stand out. So I'M excited to get into it.

Steve

Absolutely. Cool. Let's run down some facts about the movie Rounders. Rounders is rated R. It was released on September 11, 1998, three years before something else happened on that date. I don't remember exactly. Running time of 121 minutes. The director was John Doll. This was written by David Levine and BR Koppelman. This was their first screenplay that at least that was produced. And they're a writing team that went on to write several other movies and the television show Billions. They are the co creators of Billions for them, which is a great show, as I said before, starring Matt Damon, Edward Norton and John Malkovich. Scores. Rotten tomato. It just clears the fresh threshold at 64% IMDb. The people rated a little more highly. 7.3 is a nice solid number for IMDb as far as awards go. It's a little funky, but there is sort of an award win that can be tied to this movie, which is that in 1999, the southeastern film Critics association awards gave Edward Norton best actor for the combination of his roles in this and American History X. Now I love this movie and I love his performance in this movie, but that feels like it's 70%, 30% his American history acts performance, right?

Nic

Yeah. Also, depending on where these awards are located in the Southeast, I'm a bit concerned that they might like the American History X a little bit more.

Steve

Hadn't thought of that. But yeah, maybe. Maybe they.

Nic

Maybe they took the panhandle.

Steve

Yeah, this is deep in Alabama. Did they get the wrong message from it? I'm not sure, but yeah, anyway, on a budget, a very modest budget in 1998 of $12 million, it took 23 million, just shy of double its budget. So not a hit hit, but enough of a success at the box office that nobody lost their shirt. And then certainly really this movie's impact is not how big a hit movie was it, but what did it do to American society, especially young men in America around our age at that time. Boy, it made us all poker crazy. That's for sure.

Nic

Absolutely, absolutely. Beginning of this movie, it just gets right into it. It puts me in the mood immediately. This is something I loved a lot and I haven't watched in several years, but I've watched it so many times. And the second it starts with the voiceover.

Steve

Well, it's the tinkling piano first. Right. There's this music that's just playing very softly. And then yeah, we see Mike, our. Our protagonist Matt Damon, he's getting up and he's clearly doing something in the house, in the apartment he's in. He's gathering money up from places. And then the very first line of narration comes over and it's. If you.

Nic

Listen, here's the thing.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

If you can't spot the sucker in your first 30 minutes at the table, then you are the sucker.

Steve

That's right. And that's so good. And this prologue is one of my favorite. It's a great example of one of my favorite, you know, kind of realities of making movies, which is that they are a visual medium you should be showing us and not telling us. This entire prologue does an amazing job to show us what Mike McDermott went through in order to get to the position he's at when the movie really starts. Right. Because this prologue occurs and then we skip ahead, I think, like three to six months or. Exactly. I don't care. But a few months later, and we really get into the movie proper at that point. But we could have just been told, yeah, he took his money to, you know, whatever, and he lost it. I mean, it could have just been told us. But by showing us, they just do such a better job with it, so.

Nic

And a brilliant job of explaining the game of Texas holding specifically to the people that are unfamiliar. I think it's an excellent way of showing this is how Mike got where he got. And also this is what he does and explaining it while the action's happening, while it's just such a good job. Like, you could show that to anybody as a better way to explain how to play Texas hold'. Em. Thank you.

Steve

Yeah, just. I know for me, like, growing up, you know, I learned a little bit about, you know, sort of how to play poker from my dad when I was a teenager. But it was five car draw, you know, kind of standard. I guess that's. It was more, at that point is more about learning. Well, these are the hands, and this is what beats what. And, you know, some of that stuff. Less about strategy and then learning how Texas hold' Em works. In my mind. Now, that's poker. Other games of poker are those games. Like, if you're just saying we're gonna play poker, I'm assuming you're playing hold'.

Nic

Em.

Steve

Yeah, with. With. With five community cards and two pockets. Like, that's. That's what's happening, right? Yeah. And the beauty of this movie is that you're, like you said, it really explains everything so well. And then one of the things I think I love about it is it uses industry and sort of community terms and phrases without explaining them to us, but it does it in such context that it's obvious what it means. And a couple examples that I have here are when. When Mike shows up to Teddy KGB's place, we're in the prologue still, of course. This is. He's brought his many thousands of dollars to go play, and he asks for 10 stacks of high society. Well, now we know a stack of high society is $10,000. That's what that means, right? When he sees Joey Knish in the room, and Knish comes over to him and he doesn't want to see Knish. It's the last guy he wants to see. And he says, I hope you're not thinking of putting all that glimmer into play. And it's like, okay, so glimmer, all right, that's another term. You know, it's like, let's go find a soft seat in Queens. You know, it's like, oh, a soft seat. Like, there's these terms that just get used, and you may not know exactly what they mean or what the etymology is or kind of where it came from, but it's clear from the context that he's talking about, this game is hard. That's too much money for you. Let's go find a game that'd be easier. You can clean up and you go back home, because this is crazy. And Mike's like, no, man, I'm doing it. I'm putting it all on the line.

Nic

Yeah. And they do a great job of just showing us what the poker room looks like, because you might have the vision of it all being kind of Vegas and casinos and stuff, when in the reality, a lot of people who make their living off gambling are in these kind of depressing type places with these characters and everything. And it immerses you in the world.

Steve

Yeah. I mean, even the title of the film itself is a poker term. A rounder is. A rounder is a professional who goes around to numerous games, sometimes in other cities, day to day, whatever, to play and to grind and to earn their living. And that's what a rounder is. So, like, Joey Knish in this. In this movie is very much a rounder. He's somebody who's sort of a pro player. This is how he earns his living. Even says, you know, I got got child support to pay. Right. You know, he needs to make his money doing this. And so, yeah, the who thing is just full of this. This. You get immersed in this world immediately. Like you said, the. The visuals inside the poker room, inside KGB's place. Everything from the fact that, like, the, you know, there's the. The cages right where the actual money and the chips are. And it's very cool. Very kind of smoky back room feel to it, obviously.

Nic

One thing I want to point out, boxing on television, once again, if you want a seedy environment, boxing will be televised in the background.

Steve

Absolutely. Well, you're probably taking bets on it, I would guess, right? Sure. Yeah. So we. Yeah, I don't like. I wonder how much we have to get into, like, the Hands of Heaven. But, like, basically, we're introduced to Teddy kgb. It's John Malkovich's character. He runs this card room, we're told. Right. I mean, the narration tells. He's. He's connected to the Russian mob. And this voice that John Malkovich has for Teddy is. I mean, I'll be honest, it's ridiculous, but it's ridiculous in the way that great actors make ridiculous choices. Stick with them and make them work. Yeah, right. Malkovich is a Daniel Day Lewis type of. He's. He's at that caliber, in my opinion. He's got that feel of somebody who really immerses himself in his roles. And I want to take just a second to mention I saw something recently where it was a kind of an older clip of Matt Damon in an interview talking about Malkovich in this movie. And apparently they filmed all of his scenes, Malkovich's, in one or two days. He was only going to be available for a very brief period of time, so they had to bring him in and kind of do all his scenes at once. And, you know, the crew on set waiting for him to arrive, they were super excited. It's. It's John Malkovich. He's the biggest name in this movie by far. Incredibly respected actor. And so everybody's is really just palpable tension. The room waiting for him. Everybody's excited. And he gets there. He's got the tracksuit, whatever the jacket on. He's got the Oreos with him, apparently, by the way, something Malkovich himself came up with, the Oreos. Not something that was in the original script. That was his idea because he's genius. But he shows up and then, you know, check, check, check, check. Hanging around like this kind of voice that is just like, I know people from Russia. I work with a bunch of guys from Ukraine. They don't sound like that. Like, nobody sounds like that. But he. That was the choice he made. He commits to it. It makes Teddy KGB an incredibly memorable character. But apparently on set, it took people by surprise. It took them aback, right? And sort of, oh, okay. That's what. That's what we're doing. Okay. All right. And apparently Malkovich leans over Damon across the table and goes, I'm a terrible actor. All right, pal. But, yeah. So Mike McDermott is here at Teddy KGB's. He's brought 30 grand with him because he's going to run it up to 50 or 60, and he's headed off to Vegas to the World Series. That's what he's gonna do, right?

Nic

And he's ready to roll, and he's got the cards. So as he's explaining the game, he's explaining, as the community cards fall, how good his hand is becoming and how the hand that he assumes that Teddy KGB has. Right. Is not, you know, I'm not gonna stand up to him.

Steve

So he's gonna be.

Nic

In his mind, there's. There's no way I'm gonna lose here. And, you know, it turns out he loses. Yeah, Teddy gets him. He pushes all his chips in. So this is a law student who's, you know, playing poker professionally, but he's using this money to pay for his rent and his tuition and everything. So this isn't money he can afford to lose. So he pushes all his chips in. And Teddy kgb, of course, has the very cinema friendly pocket aces, of course, to beat his ace nine with the community card. So he ends up with a better full house than him.

Steve

Yeah. Yep, exactly. So that's a. What you would call in poker a bad beat. Mike takes a very bad beat right off the bat. And this, you know, so now he links back up immediately with his friend Knish. And, you know, Knish is like, oh, hey, you know, I'll stake you. You. You can earn it back. You can get back, and I'll just take half your profits, whatever, no big deal. If you lose it, it's fine. And he's like, no, no, I'm out, man. Yeah, this is it. This, this. I'm down to the felt. This was it. This was everything. I need a job. And so Knish apparently has a delivery truck he's willing to let Mike, you know, drive and pay him to do that. And that's kind of where the prologue ends, is that Mike's done with poker. He's out.

Nic

That's it for him. One thing, back to the KGB game. This is just kind of an example of how ingrained this movie was with my friends and I in college. There's a scene at the end, so Mike is sitting there with this flabbergasted look on his face. You know, the one hand that could have beat him is the one that the other guy had. And KGB's lackey comes to clear the chips off the table. And instead of just scooping them with his hands, he uses his arm, his whole cross, his forearm. And again, this is just like the guy washing his fist in toy soldiers room. Like they just have to show the tough guy's got this big forearm and he swipes it across the chips. But he only gets like 60% of them. So he leaves them all behind. And we would do this in college as a joke, whether it be when we're playing poker or just if you're asked like, oh, can you clean up the table? And then you swipe your arm and do like the most half assed job across. So that's just one of the dumb things in this movie that stuck with us. Oh, it's just for hitting us at this time of our lives. It was perfect. Anyway, we'll continue. So he's on Knish's truck right now and he's busting his hump like a regular everyday, you know, jamoke.

Steve

Exactly. For about six months later, I think is what the. The chiron tells us. Couple things I noticed here is that his wool and leather ball cap is so late 90s. I think I had one of those. I think the one I had was like a charcoal gray wool with like the dark brown Le bill and no kind of emblem on it. Totally ridiculous. But I do think those were fairly popular at the time. And then just I think the narration in general, the fact that narration is used as such a major, you know, sort of part of this is also feels very 90s. I feel like that was really common, you know, especially in the mid to late 90s. There were a lot of movies that had that kind of narration. Whether it was like Fight Club or. You know, I'm not going to think about this off the top of my head, but plenty of movies of that era felt like they had that kind of narration.

Nic

Great narration voice by Matt Damon, by the way.

Steve

It's.

Nic

It's really perfect. Yeah. So he's on Kenesha's truck route and I think he makes a st stop while he's out working to deliver something that relates to his law school to.

Steve

A judge who's clearly some of his professors. Basically these are judges at his law school. I think it's clear that they both work as judges at one of the courts nearby, but then are also there teaching these Law students. And so it's some. Yeah. Something he has to drop off to one of his teachers.

Nic

So he pops in and the judges are playing poker. And he's, you know, he doesn't look like he's tasting blood in the water or anything. He's very respectfully kind of standing back, but he's also observing the game. He can't unlock, learn within those. And as these judges are playing poker, he advises his professor in front of him, he said, no, no, don't fold your hand.

Steve

Yeah. In fact, raise.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

What's the pot?

Nic

And the other, the other judges kind of look at him like, what are you doing? You just walked in here. And he very brazenly says, well, we know what we have and we know what you have, and proceeds to go around the room after the hand and basically can put every single other judge on pretty much exactly the cards that they had or the cards they were hoping for. Showing his skill of reading people and just how much better his level of poker is than even these very smart men who have probably been playing together for a long time. But it's just showing that Mike McD is just above and beyond that. Like, you can't compete with him if you're just a regular person.

Steve

It's the kind of thing where it's like, you can, you can get good at poker in that you obviously, you understand how all of the hands are built and kind of, you know, what beats what, how good is the hand you're holding? What's the likelihood you'll be able to, like, you know, chase a flush or chase a straight based on what else you know about the hands, Whether it's community cards or I think they're playing seven card studs. So it's actually the personal cards are shown in some cases, whatever. There's like, different things. So you can do all that, but to actually get to, like, rounder level. And that's sort of, you know, you could be a pro at this. It's so much more about understanding how people, generically people. Because these aren't. These aren't tells that he's picked up on these specific folks. These are just what people tend to do when they're not being careful and they see their hands. Yeah. You know, and they're thinking about their hands and they're trying to whatever and, you know, and like seeing what gets. I guess the guys were folding face up. I always would muck face down myself, but these guys clearly were folding face up because he comments on how somebody, you know, mucked the ace that you were looking for or something like that. Right. And he's. He's just watching all this and it's so much information to take in at once. I think actually the judge, Abe does talk to him about just like, how do you. How do you. There's so much to calculate. There's so much to, like, you know, understand. And he's just like, yeah, you just. I got used to it. And that's when I wrote down. This movie is actually a sequel to Good Will Hunting. This is Will Hunting. He's just taken his. This is what he did with his skill set, all of his math smarts. He just moved from Boston to New York. That's why, you know, at the end of Good Will Hunting, when Chucky goes. And he's not there anymore, he's moved to New York to go play poker and become a lawyer. And that's it. This is where this is. His name is Mike McDermott, but really, this is Will Hunting.

Nic

He was driving to California, but that crappy car broke down in New York, so he had to stay there. Yeah, great scene. I mean, just. And the judge and he tells the judges, he said, no, I'd bust up this game. They say, okay, your first assignment, pull up a chair, right?

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And. And he says no. He's like, you guys wouldn't stand a chance. I'd play it blind against you. Which is just. Oh, good flex. Good flex. So, so far in this movie, for a poker enthusiast, we've gotten a lot of poker. Yes, it's nice. It's very front loaded with some good action. The. The judges game. So he goes home after this late night. He's been working. He made a delivery. And he goes home to his girlfriend, who is really hot and really pushy and really kind of not willing to put up with any nonsense from him.

Steve

I can't stand her. She's the worst. Really. She's the absolute worst.

Nic

I hate it because I think you could make very valid points about my boyfriend. I saw him lose his entire life savings at poker. He said he was quitting forever. I don't want him near that again. She's not good at it. I think she's unreasonable right away. So he explains. He says, yeah, so the judges were playing poker. And I think I impressed this judge with my knowledge. And she misunderstands on purpose and says, so instead of coming home, you just stayed and played cards with some judge. And then Mike McDermott's response was so funny. It's just the perfect guy. Caught in an uncomfortable situation where you're not lying, but you sound like you're laying. He says, I know. No, I wasn't even playing. No, they were playing.

Steve

I didn't actually drink any of the beer. They had the beer, Mom. I didn't drink any of the beer. Yeah. She's not sympathetic enough. And I think, like you said, there is a world in which we get a better kind of sympathy for her around. That she had to stand by him while he, you know, rebuilt from the. The crash that he took and, you know, the whatever and. But it's like they didn't have kids. They weren't.

Nic

I mean, it's like he lost his money.

Steve

Yeah. He didn't lose her money.

Nic

Right.

Steve

It doesn't seem like anyway. Right. They're not married.

Nic

I'm sure it affected her, but it's not like he took away from her.

Steve

But to also be like, her comment about, like, oh, yeah, you impress this judge, you know, with like, your. Your card skills. Like, that's not real. And it's like. Like, are you really that obtuse that you don't think who, you know, matters in any industry? Like, it really like to. If I, you know, I work in software, if I can play cards with the CTO of some company that I want to work at and they end up liking me when my resume comes across his desk, that's a good thing.

Nic

Absolutely.

Steve

It doesn't matter. I still have to be.

Nic

Connections are important, but.

Steve

Right. Like, who, you know, absolutely matters. So the fact that he got in good with several. He impressed several judges. There were like six men at that table, all of whom we are led to believe at least, are judges somewhere within New York City.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

This is not a bad thing.

Nic

No.

Steve

And to read it as a bad thing is being willfully, sort of curmudgeonly. And it does not make her sympathetic. I don't like this character. She needs to be there.

Nic

She's bad faith hunting. She's trying to come up.

Steve

Oh, Cha Ching, that was good. I like it.

Nic

So bad. I mean, not trying to be understanding at all. And so she. So she leaves. You know, they have this little argument and she leaves. And he's. I'm going to take a shower before I To meet up with you. And when she leaves, he just looks down and he goes, I didn't even play.

Steve

Like, if I'm gonna get yelled at, I could have enjoyed the game. I could have made some money. And then it's like, okay, yeah, sorry, honey. Yell at me all you want.

Nic

He's, he's about to go pick up his.

Steve

Oh, that's right, he has to go pick up.

Nic

So sorry, this is, this was the conversation they had on the way out. And instead of her saying, oh, my God, that must have been terrible for your friend to be in jail. So good that you guys get to hang out, she said, I can't believe you still have friends named Worm again.

Steve

So judgy and gross. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So we get to prison now and we see Edward Norton in his, like, state penitentiary or whatever he's in, and he's playing cards with a bunch of other inmates, winning cigarettes off of them. And then the guard comes to the gate and goes, you know, like, I don't remember his last name, but he's like, you're getting processed and all. The guy's like, wait, dude, you gotta lose this back to us. Hey, I won these fair and square, man. Like, what are you talking about? But he does, I think, give a few of them back, just in good measure. Yeah.

Nic

A very insulting amount back. And then he. And then he throws the cigarettes away on his way out of the gates of jail. Yeah. So great introduction to Worm because you can see that, you know, he's street wise, he's clever. I mean, he's pretty brazen with the stuff that he does. Like, he's not going to be afraid or intimidated because it was, you know, him in prison, a white guy playing against four black guys. And he explains later that they're separate games that he has going.

Steve

Yep. He's playing games with like the sort of Aryan brotherhood guys for one thing, that he's got to play games with the black guys for another thing. And he's got to play games with the guards to keep them happy. And so he's got this whole thing going on. I did love, though, in the, you know, the classic sort of like you get everything back. Whatever you showed up with when you were first, you know, sentenced and put in prison. They keep all that for you, obviously. And then you give it back to you. Yeah. So he's putting on his clothes. He's got this leather jacket. He's got whatever. And he's got a Ziploc bag with a single toothpick in it.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

That he very carefully is like, yeah, I need that. He takes it, he puts it in his mouth, but he throws it away minutes after leaving the prison. Just flicks it off into the street before getting into the car. Like, all right, this is such a weird thing, but it's so very it fits his character so well, I feel like. But. But it's such a strange little.

Nic

He does like throwing things on.

Steve

He really does it a bunch get into.

Nic

But he. He likes to do that.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And so the buddies are catching up and this is a great reunion and you kind of learn that Worm maybe needs to start putting some money together right away.

Steve

What he owes.

Nic

He doesn't have much time to celebrate his release. He's like, okay, I gotta pay some people off or my life's gonna be much worse than it was in prison. He tells Mike that he's got a game. And I have a game for us. I know somebody who's gonna take us to this game. And it's a lady that he knows who's a hostess of some kind of rich guy get together part. I don't even know what these things are.

Steve

It doesn't make a ton of house.

Nic

Is it a country club? Who knows?

Steve

It's hard to tell how long he was away. Has he been networking with this woman while he's been in prison? How did that work? Why, like, it is oddness, but whatever. We need to get the two of them to a poker game and that is how this works, so. But Mike's just going to drop him off. Yeah, he's not.

Nic

He's not playing. He's not told.

Steve

He told Joe he doesn't play anymore, so he can't. He can't play.

Nic

So he. So he asks, you know, how have you been playing lately, Worms? Trying to.

Steve

Right?

Nic

And Mike says, well, I'm off it. And he's like, he can't even really comprehend that Mike would have quit completely. So he's like, well, what do you mean you're off it? You're catching cold cards or what? He's like, no, I'm done.

Steve

I don't play.

Nic

I love when he hands Worm the money. So he's like, here, I'll give you the money I have on me so you can go in and play this game. And he looks, it's 220 bucks. I mean, thanks, but that's like 11 bets. I love that response to it. Just the money that they're used to.

Steve

Dealing with have to move quicker. It's okay, fine.

Nic

So Mike, he drives away. He's been the good boyfriend. And then I think they probably cut the scene where he's thinking about. It's just showing flashbacks of his girlfriend nagging at him the whole time while he's driving away. And he's like, what the fuck am I doing? Let's go back.

Steve

But he does go back, and I love it. The hostess that. That Worm knows, that sets this thing up basically, you know, sees him at the door and is immediately like, oh, yeah, cool, you're here. It's like, yeah, Worm said you'd be coming back. And it's like, damn. Worm knows his boy. He knows Mike McD.

Nic

He says, I'm not much of a poker player. And she says, bullshit. Worm tells me, that's precisely what you are. And then she has an arrangement, basically, where she's bringing these ringers into this poker game and she gets a cut.

Steve

Of the winnings, she gets a quarter. So it seems reasonable, right, if she's laying the trap, you give her 25% of your winnings and split the rest between you. And that seems like pretty good work if you can get it.

Nic

Yep, yep. And they get in there and he's like, we're right back into our old tricks. So they've already established kind of the way that the legit poker games have worked and the basic rules of these different card games that we're playing. But now we're kind of learning about Mike and Warren had these little scams they could pull. They're. They're smart enough to play in front of amateurs that they're not going to get picked up on if they're dealing each other certain cards on purpose or.

Steve

Communicating, you know, when somebody else is a dealer, they're able to communicate with each other about what I. What I'm holding in a way that, yeah, another pro would have picked up on and called them out on me. Like, guys, you can't do that. But instead, it's just these, these, you know, rich kind of, you know, trust fund kids. Yeah. And they don't know what the hell's going on, so they're able to do that.

Nic

One of the best voiceover moments I love the visuals that match the voiceover in this movie are just really so good, where he says, Worm played the role of the loser to perfection. And it just shows Worms facial expressions as he's like, really just catching bad cards and going broke and everything. Meanwhile, Mike is winning enough for both of them.

Steve

Right. Well, because Worm's dumping his money to Mike in a lot of ways. Right. Like, he wins enough off the other guys to then lose a big hand to Mike while Mike wins a few hands on his own, and they just end up funneling all the money. Essentially, it is literal money laundering. I mean, that's what they're doing.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. For sure. Sure. For sure.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Yeah. So that's great. They're busting up the trust fund game. They got a little money going. Yeah, I think that's. It's not enough for Worm, though, because I think he says he needs $15,000. And I don't know if he says, I can't even figure it with the Juice, but the Juice is one of my favorite characters that can be in a movie. The Vague or the Juice. Just as it's always a nice device.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

So he takes him to the underground card room, basically. All right, Worm, I'll get you set up in here. I can vouch for you at this place I used to play, the Chesterfield. Famka Jansen. Gorgeous, beautiful, loves poker. I mean, it makes Mike's girlfriend look so much worse every time Famka Janssen does anything because she seems like she's.

Steve

In the world with him. Clearly would have no problem with him. Him playing poker or whatever. Clearly doesn't. But, like, you know, she's beautiful. She's taller than him, which I guess can be. That can be. Not ideal, I suppose, you know, but, like, what is so wrong with this woman that he has, like, does. Because it seems like they set it up, or either. Did they date at one time or maybe they could have.

Nic

Yeah. There's some kind of tension between.

Steve

There's definitely. I mean, she is into him. Yeah, for sure. The whole time. And it doesn't really make a lot of sense. Why? He's not receptive.

Nic

No, not at all. So he gets Worm set up, and I think he basically, without any discussion, he just says, hey, this is my friend. I'll see you guys later. And then Worm says, give me $2,000 on Mike.

Steve

It's like, wow, that is a lot of money.

Nic

So he gets his money and he starts doing his Worm stuff. And he's got a lot of scams and schemes that maybe not everyone's picking up on, but some people are very suspicious.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. Well, but before. Before we get back to Worm at the Chesterfield, because he's there for quite a while. Yeah. Yeah. Mike goes home. It's the morning now, Right. Because they've been out all night, right? It's the morning. They've got a conference. He's got basically, like, a mock trial. He has to do with some of his law school classmates. Joe is in his group and a couple other people. But he gets home and, you know, he basically tells her, like, oh, you know, Worm and I were out all night, whatever, you know, she's like, you're going to be late, let me get a shower and it'll be fine. So he goes and jumps in the shower. She sneaks into the bathroom and looks in his pockets and is like from his jeans or whatever. And sure enough, there's that big wad of cash that they won from the trust fund kids. And she leaves it on these mirror, on the little like, you know, sill under the mirror so that he knows that she saw it. Basically right. And then she goes off and he's of course then very late to this conference that he has to have with his classmates. And before he arrives, we are shown these three people, Joe and these other two idiots who are just chatting about and the law school friends, the little law school. Their, Their conversation is the most ridiculous use of, of language I've ever heard in my life, even for lawyers. One of them says the key is to be respectful the judges to the judges, but not obsequious. No, no, be deferential. Shut the fuck up. God, I was so angered by those.

Nic

People supporting your theory that this is a Good Will Hunting sequel. I mean, this is a big punch in the face to the smart kids. We don't like the smart kids in this movie.

Steve

We don't. Oh my God. It's just.

Nic

I will say that I'd imagine that Mike doing the truck for Knish is maybe not getting a direct deposit in a W2. So a wad of cash maybe wouldn't be abnormal if it were payday for him. But I think, you know, but she could riddance.

Steve

This is when I made a note at this point in the movie where I was like, the, the storyline with her, with Joe, the girlfriend is, is. I admit, and I accept that it's necessary to the story. We need for Mike to have to make a choice at some point. Now the choice kind of does end up getting made for him, but like having this person holding him away from the poker game is the only way that he doesn't just run right in with Worm. Right? So I get why she's there from a plot standpoint, but it's so heavy handed. I get that she's pissed off, but she's a complete pill. She's not sympathetic. It's hard to see it from her side and really be like, gosh, yeah, she's absolutely right. Mike shouldn't be doing. It's like it just doesn't feel like that. And I felt like that, you know, we're getting close to the point where, you know, she, she's not gonna be around anymore. She doesn't last much longer in the story. And that's good because having him continue to sort of come back to the apartment just to get scolded is like, not interesting movie.

Nic

No, not at all. Not at all. She does say. So they're at their mock trial meeting and Mike shows up. And then 10 seconds after he shows up, up, Knish walks in. Knish has kind of an emergency when he walks in there and Joe sees him, she says, knish, how are you? And he goes the same. Oh, like, there's just so much, like, pathos in that. Like, he's, he's such a. Like, oh, man. Like you feel bad for him, even though it's the lifestyle of a man who makes his living playing cards. And you're like, oh, but he sucks.

Steve

To be so dead inside.

Nic

He is absolutely.

Steve

He is a hollowed out man.

Nic

But he couldn't pull Mike aside for a second in the library. He had to say, hey, can I take you to a different venue to have a cup of coffee and we'll talk about what Worm's doing right now, Right?

Steve

Yeah. So basically, Worm has been, you know, working at the Chesterfield, right? He's started with the two grand that he basically borrowed in Mike's name. Right? Mike's good for it, but he's run up to, you know, five figures. But he's, I believe Knish refers to recognizing a mechanic's grip. So he's like dealing off the bottom of the deck, basically. And this is not the last time Worm will get caught doing something that, that he shouldn't be. But Knish, you know, mentions, like, I didn't say anything to anybody, but I noticed it, so I wanted to come talk to you because if somebody notices it, it's going to be bad for him. And it's, you know, he's there on your name. So it's time for Mike to now leave the conference he so importantly had to get to with his colleagues five minutes after arriving at most. And is now running back to the Chesterfield Poker poker room to figure out what's going on with Worm.

Nic

Good characters here, Roman and Maurice, the guys that Worm is playing against, who are described as, you know, they're not connected like kgb, but those are some real Russian outfit guys like these are. You don't want to connect these guys. And I like the vaguely just, it allows for a guy to be kind of more ridiculous and flamboyant if you know that, well, there's some mob connection, so he can act that way because there's no. And the way those guys look, they're not in it very much, but the way that they talk, I really. I really love it. And these are guys that Worm is. He's busting up, and if he gets discovered, I mean, these are guys who are gonna beat the shit out of him or worse.

Steve

Right, exactly. Or kill him. Yeah, yeah.

Nic

And. And Mike pulls him outside and Worm wants to get a hot dog, which he takes like two bites of and then throws away. But he tells me, he's like, hey, like, make it look good. Lose someone it back, but don't leave with all that money.

Steve

Like, lose their money back to them. Whatever you want off them, lose it back to them. You can leave with everything else you got, you know, you see, you'd still be up a bit. Right, if he did that, but what does he do instead? He just goes in and cashes out.

Nic

And he even cashes the borrowed money. Right. Which. The Chesterfield's bad for letting people do that. Although if you're dealing with gambling addicts, I mean, probably most of your revenue is off of interest.

Steve

That is true, actually. That's. That's probably. They're. They're really. Yes, they're a poker room room, you know, as a. That's their front for their real business, which is loan sharking. Yeah. Being able to charge three points a week or whatever on. On $2,000 is kind of the whole point of their existence.

Nic

So.

Steve

Yeah, does make sense. But of course it's on Mike. It's not even on Worm. Right. So that's super shitty of him. But I don't think she might even said five points a week. It was a lot. It was the. I remember thinking the interest sounded high, but. But yeah. So they. So he cashes out and he heads to, I think a strip club. Right. Isn't that where Worm ends up going?

Nic

Yeah, right. Which. Not the place to go if you're trying to build a bankroll. You're trying to accumulate money that seems like the opposite of where you go unless you're working. Right, but he wasn't working.

Steve

No, yeah, he wasn't. And he runs into an old buddy of his there, Grandma. And you know, they never explained why this guy is named Grandma, but he is.

Nic

So.

Steve

Okay. And grandma is. Got some news for Worm. He's got some really important, important news that all of the money that Worm owed to all kinds of other people, that a totaled $15,000 initially, grandma bought it up. So. So he basically all. You know, and it sounded like, for pennies on the dollar, like he didn't have to pay 15 grand, right? Right. He probably bought it for four or five thousand spread out among a few people. Nobody really nobody thought they'd ever get money out of Worm anyway. So this, you know, makes sense to them. But now Grandma not only wants that, he wants the vig on top of that from back when Worm first went away. So it's clearly been a while that he was in prison because it's up.

Nic

To 25 grand again. Grandma's not having audited financial statements done for his calculations or anything. And a line that I like. I don't know if it's here a little later, but the way Worm describes it to Mike is, Mike's like, how much do you owe? He's like 15. He's like, well, how much with the vig? He's like, by his fucking guerrilla math, like, 25. And we would always refer to roommates or whatever. Like, by your fucking gorilla math. How do I owe $7 for this pizza? There's four of us. It was 20. But so, yeah, great. Grandma is just really proves to be such a scummy character and just, like, the sleaze of the underworld and a.

Steve

Terrible businessman, because what he ends up doing, right? He brings Worm into the bathroom. He tells him about, you know, hey, I bought up all the money. Da, da, whatever. I think that's when he admits that, because he asked, where'd you get the scratch to do that? He said, I've got a partner. I went in with KGB. So now Worm realizes he owes 25 grand, not really to Grandma. He really owes it to Teddy kgb. And that is not somebody want to owe money to. But Grandma then takes all the money Worm has on him. Grandma knows exactly how Worm makes his money. Why would he take all his stake? Like, I guess what he's saying is, I'm gonna get anything I can, and I don't care about the rest of it. Like, I understand that's a loan shark attitude, but also, it feels like if Grandma really, you know, really wanted his money, you know, would he just, like, keep it? Maybe he just thinks Worm would just run. Maybe that's what it is. You take the money now, you know, he has to stick around to try to build it back up because he's got nothing to run on.

Nic

Maybe he'd rather leave with 14 grand instead.

Steve

Build up the.

Nic

And pay him off.

Steve

It's just. It still felt a little like, you know, if you've got somebody who, you know, the way they make money is through gambling, like, leaving Them with nothing you're sure to not get anymore. Yeah, you know, like, that's just. It seemed like a bad business move by Grandma.

Nic

Well, and unfair business practices, too. I think whatever he took off Worm at the strip club, I don't think he subtracted that from the total. I think that was just. You lied to me. I'm taking your money.

Steve

That's a good point.

Nic

He still didn't count it out or anything. He didn't even do the Mafia, like where you take a stack of bills, you look at it sideways and say, ah.

Steve

No, he. No, that is. That's the 10 grand he took, the vig. Oh, he had 10 grand on him? Well, 8,000.

Nic

Plus he had it from the. Okay.

Steve

And then. And what he said, because from then on, 15 is the number they owe. Right. But for the rest of the movie, we talk about 15, not 25. So the key is. And that's another reason why he would take it. Right. Is if vig is. Is. Is due the second it's accrued. Right. I mean, you may not pay the principal back for a while, but you pay that vig every week.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And so the fact that it built up that much, I could see.

Nic

Seen.

Steve

You know, that's why Grandma took it right then. But that's why. So now worms back to nothing. He's got no money. They.

Nic

He's at least negative 2000 kind of.

Steve

Right, exactly. He owes the Chesterfield two. He still owes grandma KGB 15. So that's. And he's got nothing to work with, so he's in deep.

Nic

Basically, he's in trouble here. And then one place that the plot kind of separates. So we leave the Worm character now, and Mike is looking to speak to his professor. I think he might have had to bring something to the professor. And this is the guy who's also going to be presiding over the mock trial that him and his team are working with. This. Okay, I do love. The professor asks will he sit down for a drink with him?

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he says, what are you drinking? And he says, gin, Always gin. Again, it just. There's this defeat in his voice, kind of like Knish saying the same when he. When he's asked how he is is this scene. I don't know how necessary it is. I feel like it's a very long story of the professor ultimately, just saying be yourself. And. And it's good. He's a. He's a good act. Martin Landau is a great actor, but I don't know. It broke up the poker action. Because there's been so much cards and like just so much great shit so far. So this was kind of a lull. This is, this is where you go get your popcorn.

Steve

I think that's fair. But I would say it's, it's a pretty crucial because we know later, you know, if we look ahead to the movie, right. Like we've both seen this a hundred times, so we knew it was coming. He later has to ask to borrow money from this judge.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And you know, I think that without this storyline of, you know, how the way he explains it, right. Is that, you know, when I was allowed to leave the yeshiva and come and do go to law school and make that my life's work, I was done a mitzvah and now I need to do one for you. You know, that's like I need to repay that really. That's how I owe in that way. And without that background, I don't know why there would be any reason that he would actually give money to Mike later on. So I think that, you know, establishing that clearly there is a relationship here. We got a little bit of it at the judges game, right, when he was, when Mike was just impressive. Right. But now there's like this element of them bonding a little bit over, you know, sort of the fact that there is a world with, to which they believe they should be belong and then the world to which they actually do belong and that there's a difference there. There's a bonding that happens there. I also think it's just awesome because, you know, what is this little bar and why is this guy got bottle service? Why does he have an entire fifth of gin that he's drinking Neat.

Nic

I like when you can just get the bottle. Yeah, I mean, it's tough there. I, I, well, I appreciate the deep analysis because I was just like, the lesson here is that you need to listen to old people's boring stories if you ever want to ask them for anything.

Steve

I mean, that's also kind of true, to be honest. You do need to pay attention to, you know, your elders before asking them for money, especially significant amounts of it. But, but no, I think, I think it did, it did give us a backstory that was, you know, necessary enough. Plus, you know, getting to watch Martin Landau on screen is never a bad thing.

Nic

Let's go on a little speech and he says, we can't run from who we are. Destiny chooses us. Which, which could fit in like any sci fi movie or literally any movie. Luke Skywalker Worm is with Mike and he's at the apartment, right? And he says. He says, I need you to tone it down. A great Worm saying, tone down what, motherfucker? So good. So they get into the apartment and they realize, oh, my God, she took your sheets.

Steve

Yeah, she took everything. She's like. She's down. Stripped down to the mattress, man. It's gone.

Nic

So she's gone.

Steve

Joe's gone.

Nic

Joe took everything out of the apartment, and she's out of there. And now Mike's by himself, and he's just. But Worm, being the good friend he is, says, all right, let's go gamble about it.

Steve

Yeah, go to Atlantic City.

Nic

One of the best speeches to get him fired up for Atlantic City here. That might be a good intro to the episode.

Steve

I already have that marked down.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

5314 to 5421. So everyone listening. You already heard it. But yeah, that's going to be the intro clip for sure.

Nic

It's just that would get me so fired up. Like, we. We would do Vegas or Reno rather than Atlantic City, obviously. But just the idea of, like, the things that get you charged up to go gamble, and especially going from these dreary confines of the New York City underground poker scene, too. Oh, we can win some money off some real idiots here and get, like, noodles brought to us and pour way too much soy sauce in our noodles.

Steve

And stuff like that. There's no such thing as noodles, but that's okay.

Nic

So they. They end up going. So Worm and Mike, all right, let's go to AC Forget about this woman. Like, this sucks, but let's get out of here. And they sit at the poker table. Another line that I love when they realize that these are all people familiar to us. This is all our regular poker crew who are now at the tourist poker table.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he says, welcome to the Chesterfield South. Which I enjoy that.

Steve

Yeah. One of my favorite lines from Worm is right around here where, you know, they all kind of. So Worm has gone off initially to bang a hooker, basically. He's got some needs.

Nic

Relaxation specialist.

Steve

Exactly. That's right. Relaxing. Yeah. But so, yeah, the crowd is a bunch of the Chesterfield folks. And then I think Knish shows up and is sort of like, hey, you know, I'll sit with you for a bit. You know, whatever. Then Worm shows up and he wants to take chips from Mike and just play. And they, of course, will do that. He has to buy them. But when Ganish says, like, hi. Basically says hi to Worm, and Worm says something like, you keep grinding out that rent money. Joe, it's noble work you're doing. It's so, like, such a dick move.

Nic

Clash of the styles, you know, Like, I don't respect you. I take big bites and big risks and maybe I end up in jail, but, you know, you're a wuss for just, you know, winning what you can reasonably and not getting caught.

Steve

I think more than one character says either to Knish or in reference to Knish throughout the movie, that he sees all the angles but doesn't have the blood falls to play anymore. Right. And it's true. And it's. And. And, you know, his retort is, this is my job. Yeah. I got a child support. I got a mortgage. Like, I got rent or whatever. It's like, this is. This is how I make my living.

Nic

Yeah. This isn't thrills for me. This is, like how I support my family, so. Which definitely makes sense when they're sitting at the poker table. Another such a good voiceover match with the visuals when they're talking about the Taurus at the table and people having different facial ticks or things they do with their hands that.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Tell, you know, if he acts Brit, if he acts bold, then he's got crap cards and the way a cigarette is smoked and all these things that he's saying. But again, so much information there that really lets you understand, like, I don't know how to do what Mike McD does, but I know what that kind of guy's looking for. So you kind of understand him in this environment.

Steve

Yeah. An interesting little side note in this sequence where you're having tourists sort of get up and get, you know, sit down the table, and then they get up and leave, whatever. While all the. These sharks are there. Two. There's two men who show up at one point, both wearing, like. Like suits. Like they're there maybe on business or something, and just kind of let the.

Nic

Badges on and stuff. Exactly.

Steve

They're like. They're there for, like, a conference. That is David Levine and Brian Koppelman, the film screenwriters.

Nic

Oh, nice.

Steve

Yeah. So they decided to insert themselves into there losing their money to their characters.

Nic

So.

Steve

Great.

Nic

This is just some needed levity, I think, in the middle of the whole plot of the movie. Because Atlantic City wasn't really the solution for them to fully build up their bankroll to be able to pay off Grandma.

Steve

No, but it is. It is when the movie really starts in a lot of ways. Right. This is really the beginning of Act 2. Right. We've gone through Act 1. We're now into Act 2. We're into the meat of the film. And this is really when the movie takes off. And. Yeah, this is not. This scene does not move forward. The central challenge of getting Worm, you know, out from underneath Grandma's thumb. But it obviously is an important piece. And it's. It's there where Worm admits to Mike that he's got this. Oh, right. And I think even where he tells him that it's. No, he doesn't tell him it's KGB till later. That's right. Till the till. Till they break up. But.

Nic

But he tells him how much it is.

Steve

He tells him it's a lot. That it's 15, you know, maybe 25. Whatever. And so it's a big deal. Right. And Mike realizes this is some serious. And that. And that, you know, he knows Grandma. Grandma's not somebody, you know, they used to work together. It almost sounds like Grandma used to work for Worm in a lot of ways.

Nic

Yeah, but I was your lackey.

Steve

Yeah, right, Exactly. I wasn't your partner. I was your lack of. But, you know, they clearly have a history, and these people know each other. And so it does seem. Mike does seem concerned. Right. That it's Grandma that he has to deal with.

Nic

Yeah. And Mike's life still has to continue after this because Mike has the mock trial coming up.

Steve

That's true.

Nic

And I think this is the next thing after AC Is he shows up to the mock trial. Of course, his team of dorks are all there. And then all the judges, some from the poker game, some just new ones, just have the best disapproving. Like Waldorf and. What are the guys? Stadler and Waldorf, Statler and Waldorf and the Muppets. Like, old man disapproving looks on their faces. And he comes in and immediately it.

Steve

Up, screws the boots.

Nic

He just starts talking about the wrong thing.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

He's replaced.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And that's pretty much it for him and his involvement with that. And with Joe. And Joe, her, like, trying to insert poker terminology into all of her bitchiness towards him. Like, what are you gonna do? Talk to the judges about. Or write a thesis about high stakes poker? Like, use, like, some deeper vocab at least, you know, you should always fold a poker hand when you have bad cards in your poker hand. Like, you didn't learn anything. Like, you're a terrible girlfriend. You weren't. You would have some slang if you were listening to this guy all these.

Steve

Years, show a little interest in your boyfriend's. Like, well, not just hobby but literally what defined his life for a period of it. You could show some interest, Joe. Come on.

Nic

Crazy. So, best juxtaposition of the movie, I think. So Joe saying, well, you know, you always have to fold your hand.

Steve

Shut the up, Joe.

Nic

And then Mike's back at his apartment.

Steve

Nearly empty apartment, and he's just like.

Nic

You know what, I'm, I'm just watching some old VHS of the World Series of Poker. He's watching Johnny Chan against Eric Seidel. And there's a knock at the door. It's Petra Vamke Jansen shows up looking good as hell, but with some bad news for him. She says, hey, you know Worm, he didn't lose the money back. In fact, he won four grand more. And then he took all the money. He didn't even pay your two grand back. So you're into us for this? And Mike reacts, so cool.

Steve

Oh man. He's just like, oh yeah, we talked about that. Okay, cool. He basically didn't want Petra to understand that Worm did that without Mike's approval. Yes. He wasn't trying to rat him out. He was basically just like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. No, I get that. What's it up to? Oh sure, sure. But you know, he clearly is like nervous about it, but he's playing it like everything's straight, everything.

Nic

Such a solid friend and really, you know, keeps his cards. He's not showing his hand. Right, Exactly. Petra knows that he's watching. She knows the exact part of the exact World Series of Poker that he's watching. And she offers to stay. He's just been dumped by his girlfriend and now he has the hottest, most poker loving woman who is flinging herself at him, who offers to stay and he doesn't.

Steve

Basically drapes herself all over him. And I guess like, look, I think the only way I can excuse this in my mind, Mike, is that he's underneath the surface, is so incredibly enraged about what Worm has done that he knows that if she sticks around, it's not he's not able to enjoy himself. It's going to be be stupid because he's just gonna be pissed all time. And sure enough, he throws what must be what one or two glasses he owns, he throws his glass against and shatters it. I mean, he's clearly super pissed about Worm as well he should be. But that must be, that's the only thing I can accept as like a reason to not let Petra stay at that point.

Nic

Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote. Is that I think and I'VE under. I understand being that mad and how good it must feel to just chuck a scotch glass at the wall and have it shatter. That probably feels pretty good in that moment, you know, at least until you have to clean it up.

Steve

I. People. What? What is it? The old. The old Chestnut is throwing glasses into a fireplace. I kind of feel like, okay, then that'll handle itself.

Nic

Something will happen there. But yeah, it seemed like, oh, man. Yeah, exactly like you said. He's like, I need to explode. But I can't do it in front of her, so I need to get everyone out of here so I can do it. And yeah, he finds Worm hiding out.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And I guess this is in the gym where he used to hide out as a kid.

Steve

Yeah, it's like the school they went to as a kid as kids. Kids. It seems like they went to prep school together. That's where they went. And this is the gym there. So he was hiding out because that's where the, you know, he used to deal with bullies and bullies would come after him a lot, apparently. We get the idea. Worm was sort of a little slight kid and so dealt with bullies a lot. And this is where he would hide. Except we definitely. It's definitely older than that. Like. Like he was a teenager at the time. Because they talked about how. Yeah, you were hiding from so and so. Oh, yeah. What did I ever do to that guy? You fucked his mother. Oh, yeah.

Nic

She was a nice looking older woman.

Steve

She was nice.

Nic

She was that. Mike tells Worm during the scene. He says, you're fixing to go down hard. It's almost like you want to. Which I really. I love that line. But if you're a paroled felon, are you gonna break into a high school? It seems like a high profile bad thing to do. You know, you don't want to get caught there. But I think he's. He feels like he's slick enough.

Steve

Nothing Worm is concerned at all about. About, you know, Johnny Law in general. He. He's got. He's got KGB to worry about. I don't think anything else matters at this point. And he knows KGB's not give a. He broke into a school of stairs. Right. So. So. But they got to go talk to Grandma to figure this out. And I love the walking lip herpe that answers the door at Grandma's place. That woman has got some nasty growth on her face. Good Lord. You know, you want to spin you guys cops like, no, like, we gotta talk to Grandma. Get out of the way. Grand gross but yeah, so they, they gotta go talk to grandma and try to get this shit squared.

Nic

They set up grandma as a scumbag.

Steve

So.

Nic

Well, his place is disgusting. He's clearly, you know, a pimp, a loan shark, a drug dealer, all the worst things you could be. And then he's wearing like a 1930s cartoon child red pajama and a pork pie hat and he's. And then he abuses his dog just to kind of show the dog is sniffing at something and he goes and you know, pulls its head away or was it chewing on the couch or something.

Steve

I never quite understood. So one back, I was thinking back when I used to watch this, I used to think that the dog like on the floor and he's like, you got to catch him while he does it. And he like rubbed his nose in it or something or did something like that. But this last time watching it felt like maybe he was. He gnawing at the furniture leg, like chewing at the couch leg and he kicked the dog or something. Whatever it was, it was awful. He's terrible. And yeah, he looks like, like a mix between Ralphie from Christmas Story and Heisenberg. Like it's the most ridiculous outfit anyone.

Nic

Well, he's wiping his hands on his pajamas.

Steve

Second most ridiculous outfit. Cuz he wears something more ridiculous later in the movie. But like. Yeah, but, but totally awful. And, and basically Worm can't keep his mouth shut. So he mouths off at grandma. But Mike is like, no, no, no, it's okay, it's okay. It's good. If you think he's good for it, then it's on you too. So now Mike's in. They're both in. And they. Mike at this point still believes. To grandma he has no idea KGB is involved at this point still, so. But he believes he now owes 15 grand to grandma just like Worm does. That's on both of them.

Nic

Fifteen grand in five days.

Steve

In five days. So one of the things they decide they can do is how many games do we know again? This is where the term rounder comes, right? They know about all these different games. They can make the rounds, literally and go to them. And it's a great montage that kicks off. And they are, they're playing all these different plays. I love the great Greek guys at the deli they're playing, you know, it's like, like what did you have jacks? Does this look like a man who's beaten by jacks?

Nic

Like so good. Yeah. So I wrote down the games they had. They had the union game the union hall game. They had the cigar shop.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

Oh, that's what people at the cigar shop. Because I thought that the. The kind of the trust fund type kids from earlier were the most like, douche chili people in the movie. But someone.

Steve

One.

Nic

The Cameroon rapper on this one, nice and oily. That always killed me. I'm never into cigars, so I don't know what the that means, but it's very funny. And then we had. And then Mike, of course, wins the hand and has to say, I have what's known as the wheel. It has, you know, describing it like a cigar, which just to rub it.

Steve

In a little enough kick to win me the high and the low.

Nic

Then they had the Greeks, the just jacks game. They had the golf pro game. And that's one where Mike got shook a little bit that, you know, hey, look at this. I bluffed the big ringer.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

There's a lot more where that came from. You know, the arrogant golf pro. And he just decided. I think Mike would have ultimately prevailed in that game, but just decided like, I'm not feeling it. I'm too tired.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

You know, we got to get out of here. And then Worm takes him to get their mafia shave, the straight razor shave at the barbershop. Which I never think of as something that would be relaxing or fun, except that when I think of this movie, I'm like, oh, I just need, like a straight razor shave. That's all I need.

Steve

Yeah, I guess I've been up for two days straight. That's all I need. Oh, my God. So funny. But, yeah, so they are. They're getting close, but they're not. They don't have 15.

Nic

They get about 7K. Right.

Steve

Okay. So they still got a ways to go. And they've been going at it for about three days, I think, at this point is what it sounds like. So Worm says, hey, I know about a municipal workers game. It's a little upstate. That's like a. That's like a four hour drive. So they got to rent a car. Yeah, I mean, that's. They got. This is like serious. But he's like, no, no, no, this is good. These guys, you know, they're. They're going to be soft and they're. They're bringing a lot of money to the table. This is gonna be perfect. So they go up to the municipal workers game.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Which ends up being what?

Nic

Instead, in municipal workers, they were all police.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And the funniest thing is the troopers, basically, they pull up there, and they see all the police cars. And Mike says, I thought you said municipal works. They work for the city. No, they work for the state. And they. And then Worm says, okay, so when you get in there, this is the guy. It's like, what have you been doing for five hours in the car?

Steve

Like, right. How's the plan?

Nic

Should the whole time be, let's get our story straight.

Steve

Oh, my God.

Nic

It's like, sorry, I wanted to listen to Dark side of the Moon five times in a row. So, yeah. So no conversation during that. So Mike gets in there, and it's going pretty well. It's a room full of cops still in their uniforms for the most part. And he says that he knows this guy's cousin from the hunting lodge.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Which is enough of a. Okay, you seem fine. Come on and sit down with us.

Steve

Well, even there's a recognition. So Worm actually does know the guard whose cousin is playing this game from the prison. And. And there's even a moment where when Mike walks up to the cousin and introduces himself. Oh, I know you know your cousin, so. And so you're one of his students. And it's a reference to where he's talking about. Are you from. Were you inside? He goes, no, no, no, nothing like that. Like, I know him from the hunting lodge or something like that. So, yeah, there's a. There's a moment there where it's like, I don't know if they would have let him play. Maybe this is why Worm doesn't go in initially. I don't know. Maybe that was just Mike's request. But, like, there seemed to be an element of if he had been an inmate, they weren't gonna let him sit.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Which makes sense.

Nic

Totally.

Steve

But. Totally. But, yeah. So that was a fun way to do it without, you know, that guy spilling the beans on what, you know, is going on.

Nic

But, yeah, And Mike said he's doing well. I think he says he's up, you know, a couple grand at this point. Daylight can't come soon enough. And he. He's playing the game. And then a sentence happens in this that I feel like if either of us announced it as we walked into our house, our wives would just leave us right away. And that's. The guy comes in, he says to everyone, hey, I met this guy down at the bowling alley. Says he likes to play little cards as he brings Worm in, because Worm was supposed to just go amuse himself, and he can't help himself. So he was talking to someone. So he gets brought in from the bowling alley. Alley. But I love that. Oh, hey, let me tell you two credible things about this stranger I'm just bringing into A, I met him at the bowling alley. And B, he says he likes to play a little card, so clearly he's cool.

Steve

To be fair, all the best relationships I've had through my entire life started off as random meetings and bowling alleys. I mean, clearly that's where you find the highest caliber people in the world for sure.

Nic

It's where the best of the best hang out. I mean, he wasn't bowling for sure.

Steve

Sitting at the bar.

Nic

Specifically bowling alley bar, which we know is really where the best.

Steve

This guy, like, I met this guy drinking at the bowling alley. He likes to drink at bowling alleys and play cards. He should come join us. All right.

Nic

Oh, man. Okay, so worms in now. But the thing is, worms not playing straight up. Worm might be good enough to hang straight up or at least to not put at jeopardy anything that Mike's done so far. But Mike's noticing that Worm is doing his kind of.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Because worms trying to. He's trying to accelerate everything. He's trying to floor it with all this stuff. Somehow Worm is able to deal precise card. I mean, it seems. I would like to know how this works in real life versus the portrayal.

Steve

Right. So this is the way it works. It's called bottom dealing. And I don't understand the mechanics of how it works, but it is a concept, Right. That exists in reality. And first of all, depending on if. How you can learn how to shuffle certain cards in certain orders. Right. If you're, if you're. If you see, people sometimes will like, cut card cut decks as they go. If you do that enough, you can kind of see, okay, I got this card here, this card here. You know, whatever scene. Maybe now you know what, like the top, top four cards on your deck is? You can shuffle to where now they're now on the bottom. So now you know what the four cards on the bottom are. And as you're dealing off the top like you normally would when you want one of those four cards. Let's. Maybe you placed aces down there. Whatever. You can deal off the bottom instead. If you do it right, it can be hard to see that that's what happened. But one of these state troopers is clearly staring at Wurm's hands while he's doing this.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And sure enough. Enough he notices something off.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You know, he doesn't even necessarily seem like he knows for sure what's going on, but he says, I'm catching a hanger. Again, a term. I'm not really sure, but it's clearly a poker term.

Nic

But I have said it a hundred times in my life. I still don't know what it means. But definitely, if you're doing poorly at poker, you say, I caught a hanger. Just blame somebody else.

Steve

There you go. But, yeah, so they catch him going, and the way they decide to. Because they, you know, the cops in this game don't know. Worm and Mike know each other. They introduce, you know, they said hi to each other as if they'd never met before at the beginning. And, you know, they want to see, are these guys professionals? Are they. Are they playing or, you know, are they. Are they taking them for a con? You know, whatever. And sure enough, you know, Worm dealt the exact card Mike needed to get a full house, like, whatever. And that was all the proof the cops needed. And they beat the ever loving out of these two. I mean, really, there had to be some broken ribs up in this place. It was. It was a pretty brutal. Beat down and take every dime they had. Have.

Nic

Yeah. I mean, the combination of they got money stolen from them at a poker game and they're a bunch of cops, makes them really good at beating people up. I think these guys just got it so bad, and I think it's like, you have no recourse. You just tried to steal from us. Who are you going to call us? And they deserve to get their ass kicked, like, going into this game cheating and pulling, you know, 40% of the money that was in the entire entire game out of there. Right?

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So that's it. Worm is.

Steve

He's out.

Nic

He's gone.

Steve

Yeah, yeah. Basically, Mike's like, let's go back. We'll talk to Grandma. We'll get some extra time, whatever. We'll come in. He's like, no, Grandma's not gonna give us extra time. It's not about Grandma. He goes, what do you mean it's not about Grandma? Grandma's got backing. Well, who's grandma got back? Kgb. And this is when Mike now learns he doesn't owe 15 grand to grandma. He owns 15 grand to Teddy KGB. As we've been told numerous times throughout the film to this point. Point, you do not want to owe money to Teddy kgb.

Nic

Y.

Steve

So Worm decides he's just going on the lamb. He is just. I don't. He doesn't even have the car. He's just heading off. I don't know where he's going.

Nic

Worm says, like, Your girlfriend Joe used to say, if you ever have a bad hand of poker and your cards are bad, you should always put the cards down and fold them. Because it's a bad hand of poker.

Steve

Yes. Don't play the bad poker hand in the game of poker that you're playing with your bad poker hand. That poker hand is not good. You shouldn't play that poker hand. Enough game of poker.

Nic

So now Mike is. Is kind of the most tail between legs guy we've seen so far in the movie. And he goes to the. The bath. Yeah, the public Russian bath, which I've never spent any time in New York City. I love seeing this kind of stuff because I'm just like, oh, ew.

Steve

The amount of bacteria I'm imagining just being in that room makes me so grossed out. Yeah.

Nic

Like, oh, these are people who I would never want to hang out with. It would be better if we're all.

Steve

Just hang out of body hair that must have been in those. In those bodies of water. Just disgusting.

Nic

Absolutely.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

But, you know, Knish is there, and Knish has always been helpful to Mike, but he also, look, I'm running Knish, llc, and I have to pay for my lifestyle and my children and stuff, so I need to be able to recognize when somebody's a real problem gambler or somebody is not worth throwing my money at.

Steve

Right?

Nic

And Mike's basically saying, look, I don't want your lectures. I don't want to hear any. And going back to my earlier point, he listened to the judge's story, and he tells Knish, I don't want your lectures. And Knish says, all right, you're not getting any fucking money from.

Steve

Fair. Fair point.

Nic

Listen to those lectures.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nic

So, you know, and he takes a little brow beating from Knish, and I think he deserves it and recognizes that he deserves it. But he's also like, look, I don't have time. Like, this isn't the time for this. All I need is the help. And then he explains to Kanish why he first went after kgb, Right, with his bankroll the first time.

Steve

Right. He went to Atlantic City. He went to the Taj Mahal, and he sat down. And who showed up while he was playing there? Johnny Chan, the world champion, shows up. And Johnny Chan is playing, you know, this other table. He's not playing at Mike's table. Mike has to get up and go over there. But Chan's playing and everybody's coming and just giving him money, throwing money away to him just to say they sat with Johnny Chan applied play. So Mike sits down and. And he's got kind of a garbage hand, but he decides I'm gonna bluff him. I'm just gonna beat him. I don't have the hand to beat him.

Nic

Just one time.

Steve

One time I'm gonna beat him. And sure enough, he. You know, he stares Johnny down. The raise, the check, raise, re raise, all this stuff. And he goes. And he goes all in. And. And Chan, you know, looks like he's gonna call, but then he checks his cards again. He mucks him, you know, so Mike takes the pot down, and I love this line. Johnny goes, so, did you have this it? And he goes, sorry, John, I don't remember. And it was like, you know, two seconds ago, right? It's just like. It's just such a great power move kind of line. But that's how Mike knows he's good enough to do this. You know, he knows how to do this. He got a bad beat at KGB's in the prologue, and that happens to everybody, unfortunately, when it happens and you're all in with every chip you own. Yeah, that's a bummer. But, you know, he could beat these guys. He can do it.

Nic

Yeah. And. And it doesn't sway. I mean, it's kind of a nice little show of his, still kind of respect and friendship with Knish. Because at this point, he knew he wasn't going to get the money, but he still said, hey, look, man, I know you think I'm crazy, but I'm not crazy. And this is why. Yeah, so Mike's desperate. The other source. The other potential source for the funds he has to go to is the professor.

Steve

Yeah, yeah. He's got to go to the judge and talk to him. And this is where, you know, there's. There's this call back to the story that the judge told him about leaving yeshiva, not becoming a rabbi, which was a, you know, shame to his parents and all this stuff. But he was basically allowed, you know, his parents didn't stop him physically, basically, from going into law and. And following his life's work. And so that was, you know, what he said was like a mitzvah done to him. So now he owes and has to do a mitzvah back sort of, you know, more cosmically. He owes, you know, and so he says, yeah, if it has to be right now, I can give you $10,000, which is, you know, that's an astronomical sum of money. I do have a little bit of an issue with this, though, because he is given a. Mike is Given a check for $10,000, where'd he go? He goes to a check cashing place. They're 24 hour check cash place. Those exist. That's totally logical. But he shows up to KGB's place to play Parker with $10,000 no fee check cashing. Am I right? Am I supposed to believe there's a free no fee check cashing in the middle of the night willing to hand over five figures without taking anything? Like maybe he would have eight grand. They're going to take 20% off of the top of that to do that check cashing. So regardless, they didn't want to get into the details. I think of like why the money amount would be different. But the point is he gets 10 grand from the judge. The judge basically is honest to him and says, I don't, you're not going to be able to pay this back ever, whatever, but just get out of your trouble. I don't ever need to see the money again. Just take this money and get out of the trouble you're in. But of course he doesn't need 10 at this point. I'm obviously don't remember, did he need 15? Do you need 25? I don't remember. He needs some larger amount of money than that to pay KGB back back.

Nic

Yeah, I think he needs, yeah, I think he needs 15. Right. So, but he gets there and this is the perfect sign of a gambling addict where he's like, okay, well I'm here to pay back my. Hey, is this casino still open?

Steve

Well, it's like, I know, I think he was always showing up intending to play. The 10 wasn't enough to pay it off.

Nic

He had to get in the game.

Steve

Exactly. It's like it's my money for eight more hours. Basically he says, right, it's my money until I guess they're doing to like sun up or something. I don't know what because it's clearly not eight hours to midnight the night. No, right. It's late, middle of the night. So it must be something where it's like, oh, until sun up, you know, maybe they have until nine. It's like business hours.

Nic

Right.

Steve

But he's got some amount of time to play. And so basically, you know, instead of just playing like a normal, you know. Yeah, like here's some chips, go play at a table. KGB offers him, all right, let's sit down. You and I, head to head. We'll do, you know, whatever, heads up or whatever. And you put down your 10 and I'll put down my 10. And whoever walks away with all the chips, ships, that's who. You know, like the debts paid basically.

Nic

Either way, doesn't stop until one of us has it all.

Steve

Yeah, has it all. And this is like, obviously, so many of the things John Malkovich says during this final Act 3 scene are fantastic. But one of my favorite words that he says, and I don't hear people quoting a lot, is very aggressive. It's so ridiculous.

Nic

Again, his. His invention of different Russian ways to say English words is just so impactful. Yeah, very aggressive. So, Mike, is he finally, at some point in the game, I think he picks up on a tell that Teddy has relating to his Oreos.

Steve

Right. So the Oreos that are always sitting next to Teddy and they've got a little masking tape on him that says, do not touch with X. You know, nobody touched these. It's clear. So when Mike lost the bad beat at the beginning of the movie, KGB picked up one of his Oreos and he sort of twists it open, you know, and he looks at the side with the cream and the side that doesn't have the cream, and he pops one of them in his mouth. And he pops and he chews him and he eats him. And then he beats Mike with the card. So he had the better hand. There's a hand where Mike is. Got a strong hand, and he thinks KGB might be bluffing. So KGB picks up the Oreo and looks at it and opens it, but then doesn't eat it. He puts it back together. He puts it back in the tray and mucks his hand. And Mike wins the pot. And so Mike then realizes, oh, that's his tell. If he eats the Oreo, he's got the hand. And if he doesn't, then he puts the Oreo down. And this was the brilliant part of this, too, is then he tells kgb, I know your tell. Yeah, I got it. Because he realizes he could let him go on eating. Even says this right in the narration. I could let him go on eating those Oreos all night and whatever, but I needed to do this faster. Yeah. And it's going to rattle him more. It's going to throw him off his game so much that he's been found out. It's such a great, really, really smart play by the character in that moment.

Nic

That's right. And. And Mike, now he's won the 10k from KGB. And. And what he says is, he says, now Teddy could be paid off, and I'm halfway to paying back the professor.

Steve

Right.

Nic

At this point. Right? So you did okay, 15 grand and half. Five grand.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And KGB, in his ever taunting manner, he says, it's so bullshit. Anyway, I'm still up 20k from this last time I stick it in you. And does the grossest, like, air hump with like, whatever he's doing with his mouth. He must have creeped out everyone he tried that for. I mean, it's just, it's perfect though, because it's just like a guy who doesn't fully understand the culture but knows how to be a scumbag in any language. And this is the thing that he does.

Steve

Oh, man, it's. It's perfect and disgusting and everything. So, yeah, so basically Mike puts the 20 grand back into play and KGB has 20 more grand brought, you know, whatever, right. You know, he brings the money back in and they're going to keep going because they got a few more hours, it sounds like, right? And you know, they play back and forth a bunch. And then we get to a really interesting hand at the end where, you know, I don't remember the exact cards, but I know Mike has a couple of, of suited but split cards in his pocket. I think might have been like 85, something like, like that, I think. And then the flop is like, I'm going to get it probably wrong, but it's like 467. It's something that looks. It's a rainbow. It's. They're not suited. It's not a flush draw, I don't think, initially at least. Or maybe it's a little bit of one and then. But you know, they're not connected cards for the most part. So it doesn't look like much. There's no pair of the drop. There's, you know, all the things you would look for if you're playing of like, well, what's the likely hand here? There's not a lot of obvious.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Right hand. And KGB is just taunting him about what card you know is coming or isn't your fate.

Nic

You know, he's basically taunting him too about what's gonna happen to you in a couple hours.

Steve

Grandma's right there. He's gonna you up. And he's like, you know, this is. He's watching over this like the angel of death. And as the cards come down and KGB continues to bet, it does look like a flush draw. So it looks like, oh, you want a flush draw, Mike? Oh, okay. You know, kind of thing. And at this point, it almost, it's. It's funny because it almost feels like it doesn't matter what KGB has. Because there's nothing on the table that does much other than finish the straight, the inside straight that Mike has. So it's like, you know, there again, we're not. There's no pairs. There's not a real good flush draw. There's like. There's one where it's like maybe, you know, two cards or something, or I don't know, but it's not. There's nothing, like, real obvious. So it's like, yeah, what could KGB be holding? I think even has, like, pocket aces or something.

Nic

Yeah, he had something that was something good against, like, not much help.

Steve

Right? Looking. Looking at the table being, you know, very kind of a crap table, whatever. And. And he goes and he puts down the river. And it's like, oh, that is it. It's done. It didn't help you. It's the whole thing. And he's just taunting Mike and taunting Mike, and it's like, what does he say? It's like, was it the ace didn't help you or something like that? Is that what he says?

Nic

Like, yeah, like, whatever. The last card, like, oh, that couldn't have helped you. And progressively during this scene, this is another phrase that I learned just from this movie that we say all the time. Splashing the pot.

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

Which I think just means just. Just messily putting your chips messing up.

Steve

As opposed to moving stacks in. Right. And kind of keeping them neat, you know, he said, don't splash the pot in my club. I will splash the pot whenever the I please.

Nic

And the way he was laying the cards, so when he put that last card up, there was still like a pile of. Of chips among the card. So it just looked like chaos.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And it turned out. And he said, you know, this ace couldn't have helped you. And Mike says, you're right, Teddy. That ace didn't help. And he turns around his card to show he's basically had the best possible hand the whole time, but has been slow playing it as if, you know, the best.

Steve

The best line for me in the movie. Yeah, the card didn't help. I flopped the nut strike straight.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And it's like, okay, so deep. Unpack that line for people. Right? So, like, the nut is. Is your winnings, but this also, in this case, means best possible hand. Right. The best straight that you could make given the cards that are on the table is the one that Mike makes. So he's got that when he got it on the flop. Right. The river card or the turn card didn't matter. The river Card didn't matter. He flopped. So got on the flop, the nut straight, the best hand on the table. And it's just like a gray, great, succinct line that, again, if you didn't know these poker terms, teaches you these poker terms in no uncertain terms.

Nic

Just, boom.

Steve

That is what those things mean. And, you know, that's when his KGB's guys get pissed, you know, whatever. Because KGB is, like, what. He's, like, freaked out, and they're about to, like, it looks like they're gonna beat Mike's ass, basically.

Nic

Yeah. I mean, they. They don't know how to respond to that. And, you know, kgb, like, as much as he's the. This scumbag underground character has some kind of a code, right? And. And respects the integrity of his own game, even if it's at his own expense.

Steve

Well, I think it makes sense because he's running a card room. So it's like, if people think you can come in here and win and then just get your ass beat and have your money stolen from you, nobody will come play, right? So he does have that incentive to just be like that. And it's, you know, one of the. I think, probably the most quoted of John Malkovich's lines, right? He beat me straight up. How many extra vowels got put into those words?

Nic

So at. At the end of this. Right? So they had put first 10k versus 10k.

Steve

Right.

Nic

KGB one. And then it was 20k versus.

Steve

Versus 20k. Right.

Nic

Or I'm sorry, Mike won. It was 20k versus 20k. Grandma seemed really pissed at the end, but.

Steve

Right.

Nic

I think Mike said after that that after paying Grandma, I'm left with three.

Steve

So Grandma got his money, Grandma still got paid. Yeah.

Nic

And he got significantly more than he paid for the debt in the first place.

Steve

I think he wanted to beat Mike's ass. I think that's what he was pissed about. But, yeah, it's like, clearly KGB must have bought back in a couple times because he walks away with almost 70,000. He says something that. And he's able to pay the professor back. He's able to pay Grandma. He's able to pay back the Chesterfield. And he's still got. Got the 30 grand that he lost initially back in his pocket, and he's headed to Vegas.

Nic

He meets up with Joe one last time. I don't know why we need to close that. I think it should have ended with, like, him driving away in a cab and then Joe, like, crossing the street, not paying attention, just getting hit by the cab and flying like, 35ft up in the air. Landing in a dumpster might not have quite fit the. The style of get some yakety sacks in this. So he has the speech to Joe and basically hands her the money, says, can you make sure the judge gets this? And then I do like this line. And she says, call me if you ever need a lawyer. And he says, I will, and I will.

Steve

It's not. I got to disagree. It's like the worst exchange ever. Because, like, first off, off, what he's doing is not illegal. He's playing cards. Like, this is not. You know what I mean? It's like. And he's going to. Going to go to Vegas to do it. So it's like.

Nic

I don't know what his lifestyle is, though. He's gotten in a lot of turmoil.

Steve

If you had a nagging, shitty ex girlfriend who left you in the middle of the night who happened to be a lawyer, is that who you're contacting to defend you in a criminal trial? It's not who I'm contacting.

Nic

I think he just needed to say what he needed to. To make sure she didn't, like, throw that $10,000 in the trash and say, I'm tired of your dirty gambling money. He's like, I just need you to complete the task here. But, yeah. So then Mike, where's he going? I'm heading to Vegas. The winner of the World Series. The grand prize of the World Series of Poker is a million dollars. Earlier, they were talking about how the game is not about luck, it's about skill. So he's driving. The cab driver says, you're going to the airport. Where are you headed? Vegas. Vegas. Good luck.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And Mike just says, yeah, thanks. And there he is, off to Vegas. This movie, I feel like, could have used. Like, I would love to see what Mike and Worm have been up to.

Steve

Yeah, well, and there was, like, talk.

Nic

About a sequel at times, but I don't think it's happening.

Steve

A sequel doesn't really. I don't think makes sense. But, I mean, it will be kind of interesting, but. But it's like, I would kind of just want to know, does Worm. Do Worm and Mike ever link up again? Like, because where we don't even know really know where Worm went off to. Mike's head off to Nevada, so he's not going to be anywhere in the area anymore. Where they left each other, they said was like, four hours outside the city. So they were significantly far upstate in New York, it sounds like, or in another state. And Yeah. I don't know that there's really a world in which Worm stays, you know, on the radar enough that Mike is able to track him down again, necessarily.

Nic

Yeah. I mean, and it seems like he probably just ends up in whatever local jail, the prison in Binghamton. That's just where he'll end up back. But great, great, satisfying ending to this movie. To get to see him take on kgb, win his money back, and he ends up right where he started. And I love this movie.

Steve

It's funny.

Nic

I really love this.

Steve

I absolutely do as well. It's so funny. There are plenty of movies where the character essentially ends up, quote, you know, back where they started. And it feels like, well, why the did we watch all this for, like, what was the point? And this is not the case here. There is still like. Like so much character development that occurred because the, you know, back when we started, he really isn't. He's not a law student anymore. Right. He's left school. He's left, you know, his girlfriend. They're no longer together. That's not holding him in the city. And, you know, it's. It's. He's ready to really start the part of his life that. That he knows all along that that's what he wanted to do. And so he's back where he started in that he has his money back, but really, he's in a very different place. Yeah. And it really has advanced as a character. Character.

Nic

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I would say if you're watching this movie at home, I'd recommend don't watch the credits, just because after you watch such a great movie and then you see pop up executive producer Harvey Weinstein, it's not going to be your favorite thing. So I just recommend that. But, yeah, I guess we got to get to rating this one. This was an awesome one. I really enjoyed watching it and chatting about it. And it's funny how, like, we went to school in different places and watched this with different groups of friends, but we picked up on so much of the same, the quotes and the things that we really love about this movie. So do you want me to rate for it? Okay. So, again, a classic. It gets me excited. There's certain parts of it that drag, but I really can't hold it against it because the components of this movie, to me make up enough that this is a four and a half for me out of five. It's rewatchable. It's well acted. This is just Damon's wheelhouse of being the guy who's smarter than all the other guys.

Steve

Will Hunting too.

Nic

Yeah. And. And Edward Norton is just incredible as that character. I loved all the different games and the descriptions of the kind of deeper poker lore and the. And the techniques and everything like that. So, yeah, I'm giving this a four and a half out of five. Absolutely loved it and would watch it again probably very soon.

Steve

Yeah, I was gonna say this. This is one of my favorite movies of all time. Like, you know, easy top 50 for sure. Probably like a top 30 potentially, overall movie for me. Funny enough, we did not discuss our ratings ahead of time, but I also wrote down four and a half. This is. I'm a 4.5 out of 5. So we are 9 out of 10 on this movie altogether, which I think is absolutely earned. I do not feel ashamed of that at all. It might be significantly higher than sort of the general populace, but I think especially given the age we were when this movie came out, it was so incredibly impactful on our, like, early and mid-20s, I think. Especially the number of, you know, poker tournaments played in, like, friends houses and stuff. You know what I mean?

Nic

Yes. Yeah.

Steve

Buy in's 100. And you just sit there until somebody's got everything, you know, and it might take seven, eight hours. Like it happened and it happened a few times. Yeah, four and a half out of five for me. Fantastic movie. Yeah. So that was Rounders. We gave it a nine out of 10. And Nic, why don't you tell us what we're gonna see next?

Nic

Okay. Well, coming off this banger, I think I have another one coming up that we're gonna like very much. And I just dropped the year. I think it's 91 or 92. We're going to California and we're gonna enjoy some sun and some surf and some bank robberies and president masks. We're gonna be watching Point Break.

Steve

Oh, man.

Nic

From the early 90s. We got Keanu Reeves, we got Patty Sways, we got. Got Gary Busey, we got all kinds of classic characters, a little Anthony Kiedis. I think this one is going to be a lot of fun to talk about and I really look forward to it.

Steve

Huge fan of this movie. You know, Katherine Bigelow was fantastic directing it. One of my favorite movies directed by a woman and just, you know, absolutely phenomenal. We absolutely will not be watching, discussing, or otherwise acknowledging the existence of the remake from a few years ago, because that shit. But no, the original Point Break is wonderful. Super excited to watch that. One cannot wait. And I hope you'll all listen along when we get there in a few weeks, probably. No, I guess next week. We'll do it next week.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But, yeah. So if you wouldn't mind, you know, if you're here listening, go on Apple, go on Spotify, throw us a review. It's, you know, five star rating, doesn't hurt. It helps people find the show. If you want to email the show, you can do that at the show@2dads1movie.com. That's the number two and the number one. And yeah. So this has been Rounders and this has been 2 dads one movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you next time.

Nic

Thanks, everyone.

Steve

Bye.