Transcript

Intro Clip

The road. When you were in the trunk, what did the road sound like? I don't. Highway. A regular highway. Well, did you go over any speed bumps? Gravel? How about a bridge? Bridge, yeah. Four bridges in the Bay Area. Was the Golden Gate fogged in last night? Yes. Did you hear a foghorn? No. Scratch the golden gate. Valleys 3. What did it sound like? Did you go through a tunnel in the middle? I'm not. No. Scratch the Bay. Well, that leaves two. San Mateo and Dunbarton. What did it sound like? Lord. Over. There was a recurring sound. Like seams in the concrete. But further apart. Yeah. Now what? Bumps. Rough ones. Railroad tracks. Yeah. Yeah. A right on. And tremendous left on 84. And then what did you hear? Cocktail party. What? Drove through what sounded. What sounded like a cocktail party? It was chattering. It was right at the end. Great. Now we gotta look for a cocktail party on the other side of the railroad track. Wait, Carl, what's the exit where the railroad tracks are? Russin Mother steak. Stay on Crescent. Get off the reservoir. Okay. There's a cocktail party at the reservoir. Yeah. Yeah. Very good, Bish. Remind me to make you an honorary blind person.

Steve

It's two Dads one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit around and shoot the. About the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are Talking about the 1992, I guess, crime mystery. What would you categorize it as?

Nic

I don't know, it's just so. It's one of those things where you're trying to describe it and you're making hand gestures and you just go. It's just good.

Steve

It's sneakers. Yeah, sneakers. It's so good. And Nic, this was your pick. And so why don't you start us off with just, you know, why'd you pick it? And. And why are we. Why are we. Why did we watch it? Why are we gonna talk about it today?

Nic

Yeah. So this one is like a little bit of a change of pace of our last two, which have been kind of heavy on the action, which we love, but we're trying to mix it up. We're trying to touch all types of Fans here at 2 Dad's 1 Movie. Absolutely. This is one I do remember watching when it came out on video. It was a movie night with my parents. And as I've talked about before, we didn't watch a ton of movies. Together. So the certain ones we did watch together really stuck with me, especially if I remember, you know, asking my dad a bunch of questions during the movie and stuff. And this one had so many little references to things that have stuck with me forever. Just because I remember I was at that perfect age to ask dad questions and he was answering. The cast is incredible. This hits so many actors that we haven't seen yet, and, you know, some that we have. But it is really a remarkable cast. Looking back that at the time, they basically had kind of two living legends with Poitier and Redford. Right. And then you had in the moment star. I mean, Aykroyd was a top 10 comedy star of the time and everything. So really loaded cast. I watched this again maybe a few years ago, but this is kind of one in our age group. A lot of times you'll mention to people and that people get excited about it because it is just a fun movie and it has the spy element to it and gadgets and like a team working together and guys busting each other's balls and everything. So I think a lot of it just makes it so enjoyable. So I'm really happy to be talking about this today.

Steve

Yeah. And I think for us in particular, it being set in the Bay Area, and I know you didn't spend your whole childhood here, but, like. But, you know, we both grew up most of our lives, at least in. In the Bay Area. And so there are a lot of little things that, you know, you recognize just being a Bay Area person. And it's actually funny. It. It really screws up one part of it, knowing the geography of the Bay Area because there is a drive they make that's completely impossible at one point, which we can discuss later. But yeah. So two things I want to mention. One, when we first launched this podcast, I started telling friends of mine, hey, we're starting this podcast, my buddy Nic, and we're going to do movies of the 80s and 90s. Two separate people who do not know each other have never spoken to each other. Both their first comment to me was, when are you going to do sneakers?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Like, it literally is the kind of movie that people just immediately think of when they think of whether the early 90s or the 90s in general. Incredible. You know, and then the cast. I want to. I want to call it out. We mentioned it last episode when we first introduced that we're going to do this movie, but it bears repeating in this episode. This cast has eight people in it with Oscar pedigree and by that I mean they have won or been nominated for competitive Oscars. One of them has a lifetime achievement award. So real quick, Robert Redford, Oscar winner Sidney Poitier, Oscar winner Ben Kingsley, Oscar winner James Earl Jones, surprisingly to me, never won a competitive Oscar, but does have an honorary lifetime achievement Oscar. And four other members of the cast were nominated though, have not won Oscars. And that would be Dan Aykroyd, river Phoenix, Mary McDonnell and David Stra. So ridiculous cast. Basically everybody from top to bottom in the main cast, the main hero, the main villain, all the. The significant supporting staff. And then one James Earl Jones is in it, his voice for 10 to 15 seconds, one place and then he's in two minutes worth of a scene at the end. But he too, you know, raises the bar of this cast. So totally amazing group of people to get together into what was kind of like, you know, this wasn't like a biopic of a really famous person. This wasn't like a huge budget movie with like. Yeah, it felt like kind of a little movie in some ways, except this ridiculous cast coming together.

Nic

Yeah, it is crazy. I mean, because it's not. Yeah, it's weird today to look back and say, oh, this movie wasn't based on existing ideas. No, it's crazy. Thought of an idea and they made a movie about it.

Steve

All right.

Nic

But yeah. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say when I selected this movie, when we were talking to each other last time, I saw the look come across your face of damn it. This was my movie for this time. So that's how much we all love Sneakers is that Steve and I were going to simultaneously pick it.

Steve

Absolutely true.

Nic

Here we go. What facts we got.

Steve

We're dive into the facts on Sneakers. It was released on September 9, 1992 with a PG13 rating. Running time of 126 minutes. Directed by Phil Alden Robinson. Written by Phil Alden Robinson and Lawrence Lasker and Walter F. Parks. The starring. It's. I mean, look, we just mentioned the cast officially. I wrote on our sheet that it stars Robert Redford, Sidney Poitier, Dan Aykroyd and Ben Kingsley. But you know, the cast is so amazing. Scores incredibly respectable. Scores 80% on rotten tomatoes. That's a certified fresh. A 7.1 out of IMDb. I think that might even be a little on the low side, you know, whatever. No significant awards. Couple of nominations, nothing. Did not win any awards. Was made on a budget of $23 million, which, you know, when you think about the. The technology that they sort of had to invent and make props of and create and kind of which none of it was real. So much of it was absolutely fake. But it must have taken a lot of, like, money to do those effects and things. So reasonably good budget. Plus, I have no idea what the cast earned, but it must not have been nothing to then take 105 million at the box office. That's 4.6 times its budget, which is a certifiable hit, at least according to the 2 dads 1 movie scale.

Nic

Absolutely.

Steve

Those are the facts about sneakers. Let's kick it off. Nic, do you want us to get us started? Yeah.

Nic

Yeah. So right off the bat in this movie, we're being given the opening credits, and what we're being shown is just collections of words which we realize are anagrams for each of the names, which is such a clever way to kind of weave the theme of this entire. The cryptography theme of this entire movie right from the beginning. And also, it did make me think of how much the Simpsons is stuck in my mind forever. So every time I see an anagram, an actor's name, I always think Jeremy's iron.

Steve

The most creative of all anagrams. Right.

Nic

But it's a great, great little intro that at least shows you like, something's up. Like, this is not a. Straight down the middle. And then we're shown flashback to 1969.

Steve

69.

Nic

This is where the action opens. And it's a young Marty and Cause who are in some kind of a administrative building and they've hacked into the bank accounts and they're talking about making. Having the Republican Party make a donation to the Black Panthers and stuff like that. So they're doing some. Some good Robin Hood style mischief.

Steve

Yeah. It's not made super clear to us, but given the snow on the ground and you know, where in the country the proper technology would have existed that two young guys would have access to it. I have a feeling they're at mit. That's my guess. You know, seems kind of like it would fit that these are a couple of MIT nerds in the late 60s. Yeah. They are also talking about, you know, Richard Nixon's personal account being accessible to them. And, you know, oh, boy, I bet Greenpeace, you know, I think it was just going to need all of his money. Right. And so then. Yeah, so then Marty decides he's hungry. Asks Cosmo, hey, man, you hungry? You want some food? And they. They do this thing that'll come back later in the movie too, where Cosmo, you know, Shows him a coin, like a quarter or something, or silver dollar, and then kind of hides it with like a very sleight of hand kind of move in one of his two fists. And Marty has to pick, and he picks and that hand is empty. And so he walks. He has to go. And he has to go get the food. But then of course, Cosmo kind of shows us the other hand is also empty. So it's very important, I think, to just recognize that, you know, Cosmo tricked Marty into being the one to leave. Yeah. Because what happens next, we see lights, flashing lights, cop cars, bad ideas, red and blues.

Nic

And Marty is in the van, which is kind of like the windows are snowed in. So luckily they don't really see him. So he's able to observe all this from a distance. Distance as he sees the cops roll into the building. Definitely to come after his friend. Cause I do want to say real quick on the casting. Yeah, we had, we had the need for a young Ben Kingsley and a young Robert Redford. And the casting agent did an amazing job of giving us a young Ben Kingsley and a young Nic Nolte. I thought they knocked it out of the park.

Steve

I was like, this guy does not look anything like Robert Redford. But you're right, he looked significantly like, you know, about a 25 year old nick Nolte. That's crazy. Maybe even slightly Gary Busey. Ish.

Nic

He was in the Busey. He was in that ballpark genus.

Steve

Yeah, but, yeah, but the guy they got to play, the young Ben Kingsley, really, really good and clearly worked with. I'll have to call him Sir Ben Kingsley because he is of course knighted. But he, that actor obviously worked with Kingsley on their cadence and the way that the accent that he has that he sort of uses later in the film, because they really sound. Exactly.

Nic

They did.

Steve

Yeah. And so kudos to the young actor, I don't know his name at this point, who played the young Cosmo. He clearly did his homework and did a fantastic job. And of course, his is then being surrounded. He's looking out the window down at Marty as the cops are rolling in and kind of even kicks the window out and is yelling at Marty, you know, whatever. And, and you know, part of me is kind of like, yeah, you didn't think you'd get busted. Marty told you you wouldn't get busted. But also, you're literally stealing money from, from rich, powerful people. Like, sure, there should have been some understanding that this was a dangerous game you're playing.

Nic

That's the mentality though, like a privileged 20 year old at that time, you know, they're like, well, nothing's actually going to happen.

Steve

Right. But then, you know, the fact that again, the fact that Kaz tricked Marty into being the one to leave, I think really he needs to take some responsibility for that. For being in that situation.

Nic

Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, there was comeuppance to be had and he was just the one holding the bag at the end there. And that's where we're left in the past. So basically we have a flashback of that happening and now we're in the present day.

Steve

I want to real quick. The transition between the two, I think is really great because it goes from the snow falling at, let's say, mit, whatever the college that they're at, to snow on a screen. And the transition from snow to snow is super, super clean and very fun because we're then inside the surveillance van that, that Martin and his friends are now running their business out of and.

Nic

We get a good view of all the members of the crew. A couple. A highlight for me is it shows Whistler, the blind character who's reading a Braille magazine, and then the covers turn to real to show us that it's a Playboy magazine, which is just classic. Another Playboy appearance, you know, in a movie. I think it's. It was around definitely during this time period. Yeah. So I don't know, should we go down the who the crew is? Yeah, we can do that.

Steve

We can go ahead and do that. Yeah. So. So you mentioned Whistler, played by David Strathearn, blind, obviously. You know, an audio specialist, like, clearly has tons of gadgets and skills with detecting audio and listening for things, etc. I do wonder a little bit about the Braille Playboy. Was that descriptions of the women in Braille or was there like a drawing in the dots of what the woman looked like? I don't.

Nic

Or was it just like an interview with like Tom Selleck or something?

Steve

Exactly. But yeah, go ahead. Who else you want to intro?

Nic

Okay, so we got Whistler, we got Mother, played by Dan Aykroyd. And he's seems to be like maybe the most technically apt person figuring out the computer stuff. And he's also like a wild conspiracy theorist. So every scene it's showing him and he's just, it's really, it really captures that like, archetype very well of the person who's just boring the shit out of everybody, where they're just like, could you shut the fuck up? When are you going to stop but he's a really fun character.

Steve

Absolutely. He's like, in a. He's, like, underground underneath the bank that they're basically trying to break into. A bank, we learned, because they've been hired to break into it, to deal with it. But. But he's sort of like, underground nearby, checking the different telephone lines and things for the alarm. He's trying to figure out which alarm needs to be cut kind of thing. But he's on the radio with. I'll introduce the next person. So Sidney Poitier's character, Chris, who is a former CIA. We don't know why he had to leave the CIA. That sort of get bandied about a bit early on, but former CIA agent, spent years in the Agency and obviously is sort of there. He's like the adult in the room, even though. Even though several of the characters are about his age. Even Martin acts more childishly than Kreese does. But he is the one that is talking to Mother on the walkie talkies. And Mother's like, you know, like. Well, he. He, you know, so and so, like, left the. The embassy, like, moments before or whatever. Crease, were you still in the CIA? Then he goes. He goes, yeah. He's like, what about that? And he's like, are you saying the CIA caused the earthquake in Somalia? Mother just goes, well, I can't prove it. He's like, so, like, Proto QAnon.

Nic

It's like, yeah, it's really good. So we got Kreese. Then we have Carl, played by the young River Phoenix. And he seems just kind of like a gap. He's like a utility infielder for the crew, I guess.

Steve

I think he seems really good because there's a lot of social engineering stuff that happens as well, where it's not just about their interaction with systems and with networks and whatever, but they have to, like, deal with people, you know? Like, there's. And there's definitely a scene later where Carl really sort of springs to life as this very distracting delivery boy that's there to, like, you know, give cover for Martin to do something he needs to do. And I feel like Carl. Yes, a little bit of. If you think of the A team, Carl is sort of Face. Mother is Murdoch. Carl is Face. I don't think there is a BA but, you know. Yeah, I guess, like, nobody's buff enough to be B.A. but that's okay. But I think he's sort of. Yeah, he's sort of the social engineer. He's there and then obviously, also he's small and he's athletic and he's young and doesn't have a bad back. So when somebody needs to go into, like, tiny spaces, that.

Nic

He's the crawl space guy.

Steve

Exactly.

Intro Clip

Yeah.

Steve

Yeah, for sure.

Nic

And then the last one, I guess, is just Marty. Marty Bishop, our main guy, Bob Redford.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And. Yeah, and he's kind of the. The brains, I guess, the more experienced one behind the organization, the one who put it all together.

Steve

Yeah, he's the ringleader.

Nic

It's, you know, Martin Bishop and Associates is his company that breaks into banks to show you how easy it is to break into your bank, which. God, I love that idea.

Steve

That's definitely the thing I've seen. I think there's, like, entire TV shows based around, you know, the concept of whether you want to call them white hats or tiger team or whatever, a group being brought into. I think in the software world, we call it pen testing or penetration testing. Like, where are the holes? Help us find them. Yeah. So that we can fix them before a bad person finds them. I mean, really is. Does make a lot of sense. And it is a cool kind of job for them to have. It's a cool business to run.

Nic

Definitely. Definitely. So as they're. As we're introduced to the crew, so we kind of skipped around just talking about the people, but I think that's important to kind of lay out who the crew is. So as Steve said, they're trying to get access to this bank to kind of do their security testing. One of my favorite scenes early on. So as we're shown River Phoenix, who's getting ready to kind of go undercover, and he's putting all this black makeup on his face. And Siddiq Poitier's character walks up to him and just gives him a look like blackface. Really, like the funniest look. And I just. I love that the Sidney Patier is just by far, like, the only classy, dignified person in this crew. Right. So his reactions to everything are really great. So I enjoyed that as kind of a humorous intro without saying too much of just like, okay, this is how.

Steve

This crew works together again. He's the adult in the room and the only one.

Nic

For sure.

Steve

For sure. Yeah. So they. They basically. They're able to get the alarm cut. They're able to, like, break in River Phoenix with the agility of a cat. Definitely jumps over a counter that Robert Redford then tries to. And. And sort of tumbles across and literally says to. To. To Sidney Poitier, we're getting too old for this shit, like, very lethal weapon reference, I think, quite deliberately. But they're able to. To get the alarm shut off. Then a fire alarm gets pulled so that they have time to sort of, like, react and get inside. And when they turn that off, they've, you know, they've done the classic stuff. They've, like, hijacked the phone line. So when the security guard tries to call, you know, his supervisor, he actually gets Whistler over in the van and he's able to talk him down. So they're able to do it. And then now, all of a sudden, there's no alarm going. The security guard has no idea what's going on. Can go back to watching his sitcom or whatever the heck he was watching on that little tiny tv. And they're able, basically, now they're. They've got complete access to the, you know, terminals at the bank. So, like, whatever. So they withdraw a hundred thousand dollars or they move $100,000 into Martin's account.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And the next thing we see is him withdrawing that money, like, the next day, ostensibly withdrawing that money into a briefcase and heading right upstairs to tell everybody, well, this is what happens. I was able to take 100 grand. You know, like, your security guards need better training. Your. Your phone lines are vulnerable, all this kind of stuff. But yeah, and then. And then he's like, of course, you know, so, here's your money. Where's my check? Yeah. And it is kind of an interesting thing when you're working in a position like this, where you are, ostensibly, you have the skill set of thieves.

Nic

Right?

Steve

Right. And you could be criminals and steal money from people. What does it pay to be good? Because we're told not exactly how much they're paid, but we are told by the cashier writing him out a check that it's not a very good living.

Nic

He doesn't pay much. I know. And that's a good setup, though, is that he's just too determined to be a good guy to his own detriment, that he's kind of living. I don't know. I mean, I will call bullshit on the oh, you're ridiculous loft in San Francisco. Oh, my God. Oh, what a destitute. Can we talk about this loft full of gadgets here? Yeah, let's talk about the loft.

Steve

Let's talk about the loft for a min.

Nic

The.

Steve

Immediately after he leaves the bank, Right. We're in the loft. It's clearly the. I have a feeling it's where Martin lives. We don't get any other indication that he has another home, probably his home as well. But it's the office for the crew for Martin Bishop and Associates. It has whatever. And I'll tell you, like, I don't know, Nic, how experienced you were this, but I have worked in probably seven or eight different startups in San Francisco over my career. And all of them had offices that basically looked like this.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But of course they were burning venture capital cash at ridiculous rates to like put all the glass boxes and all of the fancy equipment and all of the like foosball tables and shit where they go. So looking at this, I was like, well, that office, if it. I'm not saying it does exist anywhere in sf. It was probably on a studio set. But that office would be a startup office now, the first year. That's exactly what it would be. They even had the like the sort of box that is a conference room where it's like, it's not as high as the ceiling because the ceiling's too high. It's like 30 foot ceilings.

Nic

Yeah. Little enclosed. Little enclosed conference area.

Steve

So classic startup office.

Nic

Oh, man, I wanted Martin Bishop to be hoverboarding around that place to tell everyone to work harder. Yeah, that was. It's pretty incredible. And they never really get into the finances of it. And I know San Francisco wasn't as expensive as it was during times of our life, but come on, man.

Steve

Yeah, it's.

Nic

Lofts are way too easy to come by in fiction.

Steve

Yeah. I wonder what, I wonder what the Pacific Heights folks try to sell that place for.

Nic

Okay, so we do this deal and they have a couple visitors at the office who seem important guys in suits. And Marty takes them into the conference room and. And basically after prodding them a little bit, they reveal to him, or they tell him that they're with the NSA and they want to hire him because there's this mathematician named Janik. Gunther. Gunther, Janik. And. And he's developed, you know, some kind of code breaking piece of technology potentially that could be extremely damaging to the US if in the wrong hands or, you know, extremely helpful to the US if in their hands. And he wants Marty and the crew to try to get it because it needs to be kind of done outside of the law. Oh, we can't use the cops, we can't use the FBI for this because this has to be a kind of illegal activity.

Steve

Yeah, there's a couple. There's one thing that it gets mentioned when. So Carl is the one that sort of reports to Marty like, hey, we got visitors. And Marty asks Him shoes. And he says they look expensive. And I, I want to call this out for a moment because in every other like movie or TV show where they reference government agents and the clothes they wear. Yeah. It's always cheap looking shoes, ill fitting suits. Right, right. Like they work on a government salary. So the idea, and this, you know, we'll realize later, Marty should have maybe been a little more careful. The idea that they're showing up in a, you know, as an example, expensive Italian loafers or something like that. Maybe they're not government spooks, like, you know what I mean? And, you know, I don't want to give away too much as we go through the plot, but I thought it was interesting that they specifically called out really nice shoes just because it's like. Yeah. Like I'm so used to the reference to government people.

Nic

Yeah. They always say they look like shit.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. You know, because. And it's always the, like the guy who's moved from the government work into private sector that's getting paid a shit ton of money working for a, you know, quasi moral, unethical entity that has the great clothes.

Nic

Right, right, right.

Steve

An interesting little thing. Oh. So Marty is talking to these guys and he makes a line. He makes a. I love this line. He says where he goes, yeah, I could have joined the nsa, but they found out both my parents were married. Yeah.

Nic

And then the other guy started coming after him immediately. Yeah, he's really poking at these.

Steve

Yeah, he's clearly still a very counter. He's still that kid from 69.

Nic

Sure.

Steve

Very counterculture, very anti government, anti establishment. You know, I mean, a hippie, but a nerd hippie, I guess really is sort of Marty's. Marty's vibe.

Nic

Sure. Yeah. And I mean, to his credit, the government didn't really do anything to become more trustworthy from 1969 on. So.

Steve

That is absolutely true.

Nic

So. So they end up kind of working out a deal which is like kind of a. Hey, here's a great deal. Also, we can threaten you with this. Also we can threaten you with this.

Steve

Yeah, they kind of came with both the carrot and the stick. Yeah.

Nic

Like at the same time. Right. It wasn't even like a good. It was a good cop, bad cop, good bad cop. So they offer him 175 grand and then they're gonna expunge his record because they have information that Martin Bishop is, you know, had an alias or is an alias a guy named Martin Bryce, who there's kind of no record of. Right. And.

Steve

Well, no, there's no record of Martin Bishop.

Nic

Right, right.

Steve

So Martin Bishop is an empty file. And then they leave a thing. They basically leave the wanted sheet that, you know, basically there's still an outstanding warrant. He still wanted whatever 20 something years later, but for Martin Bryce. So that tells us. Okay, so when, after the thing that happened that we saw in 69, Martin changed his name, went on the lam, whatever, and his has not resurfaced as Martin Bryce.

Nic

Oh, what do you think of the OPSEC of changing your name but leaving your first name the same?

Steve

I think that is good.

Nic

Opsec, that's a good move because then you're not going to like respond to a name that's not yours.

Steve

You're less likely to respond to the wrong name. Anyone who does know you, who's in on your, you know, background doesn't end up forget, you know, if you've got anyone you keep from your previous life to your new life, they're less likely to screw up and call you the wrong name. Yeah. I think actually keeping your first name the same, I think, think possibly even keeping the last initial or the first initial of the last name makes sense just because it's like you're, you're just trying not to show up on the same records.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And Bryce and Bishop aren't the same name. So that's not gonna come off as. Oh, it's like I, I was went from Smith to Smythe.

Nic

Right.

Steve

But that's not, you know, it's not that level of similarity. And I think keeping the first name actually is, is definitely the right call.

Nic

Okay. Yeah. I was thinking that there's, there's arguments for and against. But I know that a lot of thought went into this, this whole thing, so I'll accept that. So they offer him, you know, 175 grand. We will clean up your record and also we will not kill you. All the three best things.

Steve

They'Re really just going at it.

Nic

And Bishop, he needs to start getting close to this mathematician. He has to find out what's up with him. And he goes to visit his ex, Liz, who we're introduced to for the first time here.

Steve

Yeah, right before that, I just want to mention too, like he mentions Janik is going to be talking at. And he says, I'm going to go to UC to hear him talk. And I just want to point, this is one of those Bay Area things. Nobody calls that college uc. Not a single person. You either call it Cal or you call it Berkeley or you call it UC Berkeley, but nobody Just calls it uc. There are too many University of California campuses for there to be a uc. Just nobody says that. So it's another interesting thing. Like if they actually had a screenwriter or somebody on the staff who was like from the Bay Area, they could have corrected that. All you had to do was say Cal.

Nic

Yeah, that is, that is.

Steve

Or even just UC Berkeley. But no one ever see, no one has ever said that. So I'm gonna go to uc. No. So, yeah, so he needs to. Yeah, he basically needs a date because he has a friend who we learned they are ex. You know, they used to be together and they're not anymore. And she's quite clear about not letting that happen again. But she's clearly sort of a mathematical and musically inclined person. She's teaching music, but, you know, obviously music and math are super, super hand in hand. They're very, very similar in a lot of ways. There's a lot of math in music. The more and more you learn about music, obviously. And so he needs her to come so that he says so that she can help explain things to him. Yeah. I don't know if that's just a front or if he really does need help or what.

Nic

But it's a good line.

Steve

It's a good line. Yeah, it works well and it introduces us to Mary McDonald's character, Liz, who is fantastic. She's snarky, she's intelligent, she's gorgeous. And the chemistry between these two is awesome.

Nic

It's really good.

Steve

Every time McDonald and Redford are on screen together, they are flirty and fun, but also like, there are boundaries she's not, you know, gonna get away from. They're just, they're a lot of fun to watch. I really believed that these were people who, you know, were once together, still have very, very, a lot of affection for each other, but like, it didn't work out for a reason kind of thing. It was very convincing and I think, you know, just testament to both actors in this case.

Nic

They're. Yeah, they're great together. And, and when we first see Liz, we're kind of shown her from maybe from the chest up and she's sitting at a piano and someone's absolutely banging away at the piano. And then he comes around and sees that it's like a seven year old kid who she was giving lessons to, which is even more impressive.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, very impressive.

Nic

So they're gonna go watch this mathematician speak, Gunter Janik. And I just want to talk about him for a minute.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

So Gunter Janik, played by the Great. Donald Logue. Again, this, like, the top build cast in this movie is incredible. But as we get down to the little character parts and stuff, they're all bangers. And Donald Logue, it's a small part, but just the fact that you pick this guy at a very young point of his career to do this role where he has an accent and whatever, looking fresh as hell in a white long hair, and he's got a white suit with a white turtleneck. It's like the outfit that MacGruber wears to Dieter von Kunt's party. In MacGruber, all he was missing was the car stereo.

Steve

So.

Nic

I love this look, dude, it looks so good. Yeah. So, yeah, Donald Logue, man. Great stuff.

Steve

This was before Grounded for Life, before Tremendous.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

Or like anything. I mean, he really. He has had such a great career since this movie. But, yeah, it was like, when he popped up, I completely. I'd remembered some of the other. We'll get later and some of the other sort of hit parts. I'd forgotten Donald Logue was in this. So when he popped up on my screen, I was like, oh, it's Donald Logue.

Nic

How cool is that? What a treat. So they're trying to. To surveil this guy. Now they know what room he's in. And they're across from his room looking in, looking through the window. And he's typing in his passcode and stuff. And then he's interrupted by this woman and this woman who he works together with. Obviously they're interested in each other, so they start, like, making out. There's a very funny scene with the various members of the crew. Like, oh, it's my turn at the camera. Like, I want to look, I want to look, I want to look. So that was cool. But they're. They're hooking up. Is getting in the way of seeing the keyboard, right?

Steve

So we start off, and I think it's. Carl's got the camera first before Dr. Rishkoff. That's the. The woman comes in. And so he starts us by describing, okay, there's like, there's an answering machine here. There's a phone there. There's the computer there. There's like a workbench full of, you know, this and that, like, whatever. And so he kind of, like says things out loud about like, what is he looking for? Excuse me? What is he seeing? Then it's like, oh, good, we got a chance to catch his. His people, type us in. But of course, when she comes in and starts flirting with them and like, wanting. Whatever. He's going to log into his computer still. Because he's such a doctor nerd, I guess. Whatever. He's, like, not paying attention to the beautiful Russian woman in his. In his office, but she, like, blocks the way. So now she's, like, standing next to him. And they can't, you know, they're not going to be able to see it, but they are recording still, you know, for a while. When they get back to the loft to review the footage, they realize, no, they didn't get a good shot of the password. But they keep replaying the same, you know, clip over and over again, which includes the woman saying, I called you on your service and left a message. Called you on your service and left the message. And that repeats, I swear to God. 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 times. It was a lot of times. Whatever.

Nic

So finally, like a Daft Punk song, right?

Steve

So finally, Whistler pipes up and goes, the box. Because they're looking for this box. That. That's the device they need to steal the boxes on the desk in between the phone and the lamp. And I love this because mother looks over and goes, whistler, I hate to tell you this, but you're blind. But of course, he tells him, use your ears, right? And when they realize that, she says, I called you on your service, left a message. Oh, what does he need an answering machine for?

Nic

He doesn't.

Steve

So that box must be the thing they're looking for.

Nic

And I just. For the sake of our podcast and the era that we target, the fact that, like, the item is a answering machine makes me so goddamn happy.

Steve

So perfect.

Nic

It makes me so happy.

Steve

A thing that has not existed in ages and never will again now that we all have cell phones and voicemail and stuff.

Nic

Yeah. So. So now they know. They know where the black box is. They know where it's on his desk, and it's in this answering machine. So, okay, let's just go in there. And there's a scene that you had made reference to earlier where they're trying to get in past the security. And I think it's just like, you know, one of those nicer residences that has like. Like the front desk security and everything. And River Phoenix is the delivery guy, and he's really good at causing a scene and distracting and keeping the. The attention on him.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And then Robert Redford is trying to say, like, come on, let me in. Okay, what's going on here?

Steve

He does a great thing. So Robert Redford shows up while the front desk guy is clearly just like, distracted by Carl and talking to Carl about this delivery that he doesn't have on his, you know, sort of delivery sheet. But Carl insists, no, I'm sorry to bring it here. And so he walks up and he goes, hey, did. Did. You know. So he literally uses a name like, hey, did. Did. Did Carla bring the cake by for the party on the second floor? Like, I need to know. And the guy's like, no, there's no cake here. Leave me alone. Whatever. So then when a car honks and he rushes out and he goes in, quote, gets a cake and balloons, he's already set the stage. So then when he's standing there yelling at the guy, hey, I can't reach my. My card. I'm carrying this. I need to get this on the second floor. I can't reach my card. What? You just opened the door? You know, and he finally. And finally the guy's like, yeah. And because he set that in his mind, in this security, whatever, front desk person's mind.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

That he does belong there.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

You know, and he has this purpose, and he's already set that stage. So it's a really. This is what I talk about with social engineering. This is like a really brilliant sort of analog way to get into places you shouldn't otherwise be able to get into. Right. Sometimes it's not about breaking and entering. Sometimes it's about convincing someone you belong and then letting you in. Yeah. It's almost like when we. When we talked about Fletch, how he would keep giving wrong information and people would correct.

Nic

Right, they correct it.

Steve

The right information.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Same kind of idea. A little more technically advanced, perhaps, the way the sneakers folks are doing it. But, you know, he does that and then, you know, he gets up to the. To the floor. He's supposed to get to. To where Janick's office is, and he's got his lock pick ready to go. And he gets up there, and it's a keypad.

Nic

It's a keypad. And they hadn't anticipated this. And it's like, before it even started, we're stuck with something that we're not prepared for.

Steve

Right?

Nic

And this. This is really, I think, one of the scenes that makes this movie so great. Right? So Bishop is standing there looking at the keypad. He's like, ah, shit, it's a keypad communicating back to the mothership. And they're all kind of talking about, how are we going to deal with this?

Steve

Right?

Nic

And then finally, Kreese, I think, says, okay, Marty, I got something in my work.

Steve

Well, this is funny. Mother hands him a manual, hands Kreese a manual. And he goes, my buddy in the Iraq War, or my buddy in Desert Storm handed me this. Of course, he was fighting for the other side. So he's got this, like, manual of, like, you know, ostensibly Taliban or whatever. Something. Yeah. You know, like how to bring it. And so, yeah, might have this. And then we just see Redford listening to. We're not hearing what. What Kreese is saying. Marty is just listening. Goes. Huh? Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.

Nic

Yeah. All right.

Steve

I'll give it a shot, you know, and then he just.

Nic

And then he kicks it open, just boots it open. And it's just. It pays off so well. And I love those jokes that are really, like, it. It's really dragging you up to make sure that the punchline really hits. So they drag that for an extra couple seconds.

Steve

There's something very pulp comics about it. It feels very much like a few frames of a comic book you would have read from the 70s or 80s. I feel like it feels very much like that kind of payoff. And a lot of this movie, I think, has that pulpy feel to it. But, yeah, it's a great moment. And another example of sort of analog solutions to digital problems where it's like, oh, you've met this technology. You don't know how to get around technologically. Sometimes you just kick the door open.

Nic

That's, I guess, a lot of kind of the underlying theme of this movie for analyzing it is just like. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's just people dealing with other people is what gets you what you need. So Marty gets in there, kicks the door open, and he's got the black box and fucking piece of cake.

Steve

He's ready to go.

Nic

Let's get out of here.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And then the. The doctor from earlier, Dr. Rishkoff Ryshkov, who is, you know, having a little fling with Janik in his white suit.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

See, Comes in and sees Marty. He's got to be quick on his feet here.

Steve

Right. And of course, Kreese is in his ear. So Chris and Whistler in the van and can hear what Marty is saying and hearing what he's hearing from, you know, so they're involved in the conversation. His earpiece, which is not particularly hidden, is quite visible in several scenes, but that's okay. She doesn't notice it. So they start trying to feed her lines or feed him lines about whatever. And it's kind of working. You know, he's sort of convincing her that, you know, there he's a private investigator that, that Mrs. Janik hired him. She's like, there is no Mrs. Janek. And he's like, oh, like, whatever. So they kind of like, they make it work. There's a couple very funny moments. One where Whistler feeds Marty a line that uses pronouns. He's like, well, that's why she's trying to use you to get to her. And he has to quickly format that. Like, that's why she's trying to get. Use me to get to you. And it's like, because he goes from third to second and first person, which is very funny. And then of course, at the end, near the end of the conversation, when, when he's just trying to convince her, like, just be there for Janek, like you need to be there for him, whatever. And Whistler goes and give him head whenever he wants. And he goes to give him hope. Give him hope because they gotta screw with him. They gotta screw with Marty somehow.

Nic

It was really funny. And again, he was able to play it off at least enough to get out of that room.

Steve

Yep. He convinces Rishkov that this is reality, that he is whatever, and that she needs to sort of keep. Keep it to herself and just be there for Janek, whatever. And away he is able to go. And so we were taken back to the loft.

Nic

Party at the loft. Great scene.

Steve

Three days worth of decorations are up. I'm not sure when they did those Christmas lights, but holy shit.

Nic

I guess if you're good at wiring things for surveillance, maybe you're really good at Christmas lights, I guess.

Steve

But man, there's a lot of Christmas lights in.

Nic

There's all kinds of stuff in there. Or I don't know. Does Marty Bishop strike you as single version of Marty Bishop strike you as a yearlined cross year round Christmas light kind of guy?

Steve

Could be. But I actually went back to look to see if they were hanging off earlier and they were not there in the previous scene. So you might have been right. But not this time.

Nic

I just want to say this before I forget about Liz. She is the anti Joe from Rounders. She is the exact opposite of Joe from Good Call. She's an ex, but she's still cool with his friends. She is down to hang. She's down to talk shop with them. She seems like she's legitimately having fun, even though she was kind of dragged into this.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Thing. Like there's a part of this life that she understands why it's exciting, even if it's not for her. Anymore, necessarily.

Steve

Well, and again, when you. When you see that, like, her. Her life, as far as we're shown, her life outside of Martin and the guys is music. Like, that's right. What her profession is, everything else. And that, again, note. And I'm not being sarcastic, it very, very tied to mathematics in lots of ways. And then this cryptography and the different surveillance and stuff that the guys do, also very mathematical. There's. There's a lot to share about those worlds that even if, like, the details all are obviously very different and very disparate, you know, the core of it is still like. Well, you're thinking very logically. You're thinking very pattern recognition and. And. And methodical and stuff. And so I think there's, you know, a lot of what they do that sort of does excite her from a purely, like, academic standpoint even.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You know, and it just becomes interesting. But also, I think she's just really awesome. And, like, it's just, you know. And, yeah, some people are just cool and down and she is. And Joe wasn't how it goes sometimes.

Nic

No, she's. She's great. And in the party scene, she's having a good time. Seems like a heck of a party. Playing some Scrabble and everything. They are talking about what they're gonna do.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Money. Because Marty's talked about how much money we're getting. So they all go. A little roundtable, what their dreams are for the money. Which is a fun scene to kind of develop each character a little further just by knowing what they would do with, like, 40 grand or whatever.

Steve

I think it was 35. If they splitting it evenly, it's 35 grand each. So it's just, you know, that's a decent amount of money. Now. That was quite a lot of money in 92. So.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Chris and his wife buy a loft in San Francisco.

Steve

Yeah. Like Marty does. I don't. Does he even say what he would do? I think he basically, just because he's getting his record expunged, main thing, he gets his life back. But Chris and his wife talk about going to Europe and Tahiti.

Nic

Tahiti? Yeah.

Steve

Not just Europe, but, you know, Greece and Scotland and Italy, whatever. And Tahiti. And Mother wants a Winnebago with a big kitchen. I think he mentions a few times.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Big, nice kitchen and a waterbed. It sounds like a bad idea to have a waterbed on a. In a car to me. But, you know, whatever. Mother. Mother is who he is.

Nic

So it's kind of funny if you're like that degree of a conspiracy theorist, but then a very real threat, like a waterbed popping in a Winnebago. It doesn't seem to phase you very much.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Nic

So they're talking about their money, and then they're kind of on the side. Whistler is checking out this new gadget that they'd found.

Steve

Yeah, they got this box and he's.

Nic

Testing it, and he's kind of, you know, at his Braille terminal, which I've never really seen before. It's very cool.

Steve

Very cool.

Nic

Right.

Steve

I hope that's real. Yeah, it's the only time I've ever seen it is in this movie. But also, I am not blind and don't need to use it, so. But I hope there's something like that. It's very neat, for sure.

Nic

And he's there and testing different parts of it, and they're talking about CTEK Astronomy, the name. They're all kind of tumbling this over in their head. And then Marty up the Scrabble game.

Steve

Yeah, he does jump over his head.

Nic

I don't know how to feel about that scene because I don't know what the score was at the time that Marty just dumped all the letters out. Because unless you're one of those psychos who tracks what each letter placement was while you're playing and scoring, then that game is done.

Steve

It is done. And I did just try to use the word.

Nic

Wife was winning. That's what I have a feeling. And that she was super cool about not saying anything about it.

Steve

Yeah, it's. It's definitely. I think it's funny that nobody even goes, hey, like, nobody even reacts.

Nic

They're probably like, dude, he does this twice a week.

Steve

Marty.

Nic

He put Scrunchie Cryptography.

Steve

He puts Scrunchie down with the Y and a triple letter score. We try to challenge it. He dumps the board over, like. But. No, but. So he starts. Yeah, he starts moving the letters. He puts CTech astronomy down. First of all, I want to mention, too, just as an aside, and this scene, the side of the loft where. Where Kreese and his wife and Liz and Marty are sitting playing Scrabble. The lighting is incredible, and it just looks ridiculously cool. I just thought. But he starts moving the tiles around to try to rearrange CTECH Astronomy and other things, because everybody's been trying to figure out, what does CTech mean? What does CTec mean? This was the name they were given by the, quote, NSA agents or whatever at one point. And as it's like secret technology. It's like sensor. Something nobody could figure. And he thinks himself. Oh, it's not an acronym. It doesn't mean anything. It's an anagram. So they start playing around, and they come up with a handful of ones where they ask the crowd, like, hey, like, what does this mean to you? And nothing. Whatever. There's at least one that they decide is too sort of juvenile to even mention to the crowd. Yeah, yeah, but. But, yeah, but then they end up with too many secrets, and that. That has meaning to Marty. It's interesting because I think earlier in the flashback to 69 with Cosmo, they talk about no more secrets. Or do they say, too many secrets. I thought Cosmo said no more secrets. And now I realize I didn't go back and look at that. But. But anyway, this has meaning to Marty. Too many secrets. And he suddenly is very concerned now about what the box is and what it's doing.

Nic

Right. And we're seeing that as Whistler is kind of testing the power of this box, where, I guess, you know, a certain point of the box is giving some great encryption power. So if you go to these websites, I think if you type www.federalreserve.com, normally it's encrypted, but if you touch it to this box, then you can withdraw everyone's money. I think that's how it works.

Steve

Essentially. It's not the web, but, yeah, essentially, they're dialing into systems. This is absolutely not how encryption works. You would not see the menu screen just in junk. Right? That's.

Nic

You don't see it in wingdings.

Steve

You wouldn't be allowed in, basically. But it's a movie, so they got to do something. So, yeah, the. The. All of the special characters sort of, you know, not even in order. Just randomly around the screens are turning into the real letters, and they're realizing, oh, wow. Yeah, we have access to the national power grid. We have access to, like, air traffic control, access to, like, the Federal Reserve, like, all this stuff. At which point Kreese and Marty realize what they're doing.

Nic

Dude, this is scary. This isn't like, oh, it's cool that it can do this much. It's terrifying. And we only have this for another eight hours, but we're gonna stay on lockdown, like, with somebody awake guarding us for the rest of the time, because we cannot. This is too, too much.

Steve

Cree says there is not a government on the planet that wouldn't kill all of us to get a hold of that.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

So they suddenly. Now they know just how important this is. Also during the scene, I think it was a little earlier than I just want to mention, because at one point in the movie, the supposed NSA guys say to Marty, you know, you'd have to go to prison. And we all know what happened to Cosmo in prison. They don't mention right away what that was, but Marty reveals Cosmo died in prison.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And so that's an important sort of part to mention, is that, you know, he doesn't want to go to prison because his buddy who had to go, died while he was there. So that's. That's that. So they get through the night. Even Liz has to stay, much to her chagrin. Although Kreese does convince her.

Nic

Pretty cool about. I mean, Kreese was actually cool about it. It, too. He. He was like, not really apologetic, but he's like, hey, you know how this works? Like, I'm a, you know, a veteran of this. Kind of like, you have to listen to me.

Steve

Yeah. So. So they get through the night. It's time to deliver the box. They go to what I believe is Ghirardelli Square. Certainly looked like where they were. The view of the old Bay Bridge and the fact that they're sitting at these old bistro tables, nobody around, look like Ghirardelli Square on the Embarcadero in San Francisco. And he's meeting up with the two guys who hired them. And while. So Kreese is driven with Marty, and while Marty is talking to the guys, actually has given them the box and sort of like waiting to get the check from them. Kreese notices a newspaper, today's paper, and it says, famous. Like, you know, famous mathematician killed Arthur Gunther Janik is dead. Yeah. And he's like. And they suspected arson or something. He's like, really bad, you know. And so then Kreese realizes they're. They're. They're in trouble. Marty's in danger. They're in danger. So apparently Marty's Austin Healey or whatever this vehicle is, has a car phone, because, you know, Martin, Martin, It's a phone call. It's your mother. Which obviously must be signal or something.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

Because he then turns and leaves without getting the check. And it's like, chris, what are you doing? I didn't get the money. I didn't get the money. He's like, get in the car, Drive. Get in the car, drive. And sure enough, those guys were ready to just kill Martin right there square. So it's good that they get away yeah, yeah.

Nic

And now we know that. Okay. We don't have the item or the money, which is always a good point to be left in a film like this is we have neither of the things that we need. And now Marty's kind of like who could have been the fake nsa.

Steve

They clearly aren't nsa.

Nic

Definitely aren't nsa. So I have to figure out who it is. And earlier in the movie we had a brief introduction to some friend or colleague of Marty's and Liz's. It seemed like he knew them when they were together.

Steve

Yeah. At the Janik talk.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Yeah. This was somebody that obviously.

Nic

Gregor.

Steve

Yeah, Gregor something or other.

Nic

Some kind of ambassador, like a Russian ambassador.

Steve

It's clear that his current title, based in the card he gives Martin is Cultural Attache, which I've only ever heard in one other context that's in the movie the Birdcage, when it was a deliberately fake name. We'll get to that movie at some point, I'm sure. But it seems like based on Martin's conversation with Greg that he was like, he's like former KGB or something. Like he's former like intelligence service, something like that. But now he's a cultural attache.

Nic

Right. Just one of those like diplomat guys who bounces around to different positions. But he's kind of does generally the same thing.

Steve

It's also interesting because this was a very short lived title, but his. The. The country essentially for which his business card relates is the Commonwealth of Independent States, which was sort of like immediately post Soviet Union.

Nic

That's all right. The hockey jerseys from the Olympics. I remember that.

Steve

The old. A bunch of the countries that are now all separate countries like the Czech Republic and Ukraine, everything else were banded together. It's just like we're no longer with Russia, but we also don't really have all of our own structure in place.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

To be completely separate. So we'll just band together for a little while, so. But a very short lived geopolitical entity.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

The Commonwealth of Independent State.

Nic

I know it's a weird time. And they. In movies of this era, I've seen this with some other things we've seen. They always have to say, hey, our countries are friends now. Yeah.

Steve

Right.

Nic

You know, it's like cut forward to 2025 now, back on our bullshit here.

Steve

Right, right.

Nic

So. So he thinks that this guy's probably the most or a very likely candidate for someone that might know who actually took this thing. That's who were the fake NSA guys. And in a pretty bold move, Marty shows up to This, I don't know, orchestra concert that he was invited to by this guy earlier and just jams a gun in his back and says, hey, I gotta go talk to you. And then the guy, after he tells him, you know, he accuses him of what he thinks he's done. The guy's like, no, it wasn't me. Yeah, the guy is so cool about having that gun put in his back, right? He seems like, hey, don't worry about that gun thing anyway, let me see how I can put my life at risk to try to help you. And. And so he's traveling with this guy somewhere unknown to someone that might know, right?

Steve

Well, no, I think they're just getting in the car and driving around so they can have the conversation they're trying to have. It's more like, you know, we can't go anywhere that isn't controlled, and my vehicle is controlled and swept for bugs and whatever, because he's looking through files of, you know, operatives that he's pointing at the guy right where it's like the Soviets would have. You know, we tried to recruit these guys. Basically, they're people who are Americans. And then he's looking to see, do you recognize any of these people? And at first, no. No, no, no, no. I do love to. Greg at one point is. His face is completely shrouded in shadow when he tells Marty, you've got to trust me. It's just a funny juxtaposition, but, yeah. So then they get pulled over, and someone who identifies himself. First of all, Marty does recognize one of the two, the older of the two, quote, NSA guys that basically tried to kill him. The buddy Wallace, I think, was the name that he used. He. So he recognized him. Like, that is a bad guy, basically. Greg's able to confirm, yeah, that guy's no good. And then he sees who he's working for now, but doesn't say anything, just says, you're in more danger than you realize. If you stay with me, I can offer you asylum. This car is part of the consulate. Do you want my protection? Yeah. And Marty's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What the are you talking about? Like. Like, I. This is, like, a big choice, right, to decide to seek asylum essentially, in a foreign country. It's like, a big decision. You can't just make it. So they get pulled over. A person identifying himself as an FBI agent comes to the window and says, martin Bishop, like, you need to get out of the car. So, first of all, like, you know, sort of like, how the hell did he know he was in that car, Right? Interesting thing, tinted limo. Yeah, exactly. And so he goes to get out and Greg says to him, you won't know who to trust. They frisk him, they find his gun. Is this loaded? He goes, yeah, it is. The guy puts on a glove, takes the gun and shoots Gregor and then also shoots his driver as he tries to escape. And so now Marty's gun has been used in two murders.

Nic

Yes. If you are a limo driver and your passenger gets shot and you're still behind the wheel, right. Fucking drive away.

Steve

It's the vertical one on the right.

Nic

What's this guy doing getting out of the. Oh, I see a fugitive I'm going to get. Dude, the future's not out yet. You haven't seen it.

Steve

He's in a tunnel too. It's not like he can dive into, into the brush off the side of the road. There's nowhere to go.

Nic

Nowhere to go. And, and I will say the accuracy of this guy's shots were incredible. Like, there was no. It was like, Gregor, one shot, no noise. This guy, one shot. That's it.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So, so now Marty has these murders potentially on his hands. His fingerprints are on the gun. You know it's going to get back to him.

Steve

Yep. And so he is taken to see someone. Right. He gets put into the trunk of the vehicle, the, the that stopped them, not the one that Greg's dying, laying dead in. And he gets driven around, he gets knocked out by Buddy Wallace, put into the trunk. At one point they stop, he opens a trunk, he knocks him out again.

Nic

What are you doing now?

Steve

What are you doing? Smacks him again. But eventually he gets taken to this office, basically, to which I'll point out, much like your very astute observations about scumbags watching boxing on tv. Tv. Anyone with sharks in a fish tank is a villain. That's a villain. That's a classic James Bond villain. Even. So we have a couple of like leopard sharks swimming around a fish tank. And the person whose office it is walks up to Marty and says hello and offers. What does he offer? I can't remember now, but he does the hand thing.

Nic

Yes. He says, is there pain? And then I think he has a.

Steve

Bottle of Excedrin or aspirin.

Nic

I do want to say too, in this office, some of the least comfortable looking furniture I've ever seen in my life. They have like the, like the anti homeless bench as just their regular bench. And then they have chairs that look like they're made out of those like desktop, like Pen organizer. Like that metal mesh stuff. It looks terrible.

Steve

There was a movement in the early 90s. I feel like that was some sort of, like, industrial brutalism that was sort of like, based around sharp lines and angles, and everything was either metal or glass or black. Right. And it just. I'm glad it didn't last a long time, but, yeah, I don't have good.

Nic

Enough posture for that kind of stuff. I can't really. I can't deal with it.

Steve

Kill my back.

Nic

So, yeah. So Marty's presented with this choice, and he realizes with the hands out in.

Steve

Front of him, this is cosmos. This is. Cause, oh, my God, he's not dead.

Nic

He's alive.

Steve

He's alive.

Nic

Offering me aspirin.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And. And so Kaz kind of has a conversation with Marty explaining where he's been. And basically, I went to work for organized crime. I was kind of leveraged into working for organized crime in exchange for my escape or release from prison. And then he kind of gestures towards, hey, there's a microphone. Let's talk. Quietly pulls Marty aside and tells him, my plan is what our plan always was, but on a larger scale. My plan is to. This whole system is. Is. Is destroying us, and. And let's blow up the system. And I have these plans. But Marty obviously is skeptical because he's like, well, you've been making money working.

Steve

For the market for the worst people.

Nic

In the world, so why, you know, why would I think you're still behind this?

Steve

Also, we all. We will learn later in the 90s, you can't plan to destroy the economic system of the United States without also having a fight club. So there's, like, they're missing that step.

Nic

They got to form. That they got to form. Wait, maybe they did, but they're just following that first rule.

Steve

Oh, damn, you're right. They're not talking about it.

Nic

Okay, so. Cause basically says, you know, here. I pulled up the. You know, whatever. The database. The promise. Oh, yeah, that. Where the cops can search your record. And here's Martin Bryce. And I'm. I just added Martin Bishop as an alias, right? So now there's a path to. You hit enter. You're in the system, dog. You're gonna get. You're gonna get. Unless you, you know, whatever, you're just. You're screwed.

Steve

It doesn't even offer him anything.

Nic

There's not.

Steve

It's petty. It's straight pettiness.

Nic

This is for you. I was in jail.

Steve

Now you get to be in jail.

Nic

Like it. And now you get to be in jail.

Steve

I went to jail in my 20s. I'm going to send you to your. To jail in your 50s. Because that's definitely the same thing.

Nic

The same exact thing to be. Yeah. Like a Jr. At MIT and go to prison. Same loss of potential.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

And so right after they threaten him with jail, he's, like, knocked out. He's back in the car again.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And they throw him out at the top of a hill with a perfect view of Alcatraz.

Steve

Gorgeous.

Nic

Just to remind him.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Hey, buddy. Oh, you think jail's beautiful. Yeah. Well, look at this beautiful jail. It's so beautiful.

Steve

This beautiful national landmark that people go to visit, take tours of.

Nic

I thought that was. That was great. So we got some SF there.

Steve

Little on the nose, but yeah.

Nic

So now Martin has been accused of murder. And I think it's like, the murder is in the paper, and I don't know if he's named as a suspect yet, but he's like, okay, it's just a matter of time.

Steve

There was, like, they say something about an anonymous tip linking the murder of Janek to the murder of Greg.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

So it's basically they're trying to frame him for all of the death that has occurred around this box. And his comments. Yeah, I bet it was anonymous. Like, but now he has to basically convince the. The team to help him. Right. And he has to reveal to them like. Like the whole. His background and like, whatever. Or maybe that was the. Maybe the reveal was early.

Nic

So he has to call the nsa.

Steve

Oh, that's. He wants to try to make a deal. And so he calls and Kreese is helping him out. Hey, ask for Operations Director. Ask for whatever. And then finally he just says over the phone to the operator who's looking for an extension, he says, ctek Astronomy.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And Matt gets the pause and then the. One moment, please. You know, so you know. You got it.

Nic

I love that. So. Yeah. So he's able to get through to an individual at the nsa, and he's telling him what he has, and basically they're saying, if you don't have. Oh. And they've set up the call to be untraceable, or at least hard.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And his Whistler. Yeah, And Whistler's watching this, and he's like, these guys are really good. These guys are immediately on top of their call, tracing it through all the locations.

Steve

I know.

Nic

Like, how do you think you get the technology to make your call untraceable in the first.

Steve

You think you're calling Chuck E. Cheese.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

This is not. But, yeah, but they also have a stress detector set up, which Mother mentions is not as good as a polygraph, but at least gives some indication of whether the person's lying or not on the other end.

Nic

Again, classic conspiracy theories. Fully trust polygraph test.

Steve

But, yeah. So the person says his name is Mr. Abbott, which is true. I don't know why he didn't give a fake name, but whatever. And of course, the voice is the recognizable voice of one Mr. James Earl Jones. And he's basically saying, do you have the. Do you have the box? You have the box? And they're like, can you guarantee my safety? Do you have the box? You know, and so time is running out. They're tracing this call. But he can't get Abbott to con. To commit to giving his prediction until finally says, okay, fine, I'll guarantee your safety. At which point Mother's little faux polygraph goes wild. Yes, he's lying. He's lying. You know, so they shut it off. Looks like just literal milliseconds before they were going to finish the trace. But now they realize if we don't have the box, we're not going to get a deal made. Yeah, we have to go get the box. But Martin doesn't know where he was taken. Yeah. And this is one of the coolest scenes.

Nic

This is, like such a memorable thing in this movie. And it's just everyone working together. Everyone's like, best of, you know, local knowledge and technical knowledge.

Steve

And they do. They do make a statement I have a slight qualm with as a Bay Area resident. They say there are four bridges in the Bay Area. There are six major bridges in the Bay Area, but I'll give it to them because only four of them reach the Peninsula. So if you're not. If you're in San Francisco, there are only four that you have access to without going way out of your way. The other two, the Carquinus and the Richmond or the Carquineas and actually, no, wait, the San Rafael Bridge, Carquinas Bridge and Benicia. There's seven, but those are all. Whatever. I'm going to get, too, into the geography of the Bay Area. They're fine with their four. They're trying to figure out where he went from San Francisco to somewhere else. So they mentioned that the Golden Gate was fogged in. There was no foghorn. Not the Golden Gate. Didn't go through a tunnel in the middle. Not the Bay Bridge. So now we're down to the Dumbarton and the San Mateo. And I'LL forgive Dan Aykroyd for mispronouncing Dumbarton. But they hear the rhythm of the seams in the roadway that he was able to hear. And Whistler's able to recreate it on, like, his little magic audio box. And it tells him, oh, that's the San Mateo Bridge. It then shows them driving across the San Mateo Bridge, clearly driving east across the bridge from the peninsula. Across the bridge. And then talking about a reservoir and Crescent Avenue and, like, all this different stuff. That's all in Palo Alto. So. Which is on the west side of that bridge. But that's okay again, like, it gets all messed up, but yeah. So then it's like, what'd you hear next? Rough bumps. Okay, that's railroad crossing. So find the railroad crossing. And then the best one. What'd you hear next? Sounded like a cocktail party. Like, we drove through a cocktail party. There's a lot of chatter. And so everybody's like, okay, we gotta find a cocktail party on the other side of the railroad tracks. What? Until Whistler goes, oh, mother. Stay on Crescent. Go to the reservoir.

Nic

Yes. Oh, and then it's the collection. All the birds there.

Steve

It's like a bunch of geese and ducks making noise.

Nic

That sound, though. I mean, that. It really sounds just like that. Yeah. Such a cool scene of them figuring out in like, an incredible amount of time, like, such a short. This is like Liam Neeson and Taken just being like, I took a small reflection, and now I'm already, like. Like, on my way to this guy.

Steve

Exactly. So.

Nic

So they discovered that.

Steve

What.

Nic

What are we out here for? There's nothing here. There's only this one.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Building. And it's private property, you know. And then they go up to the building and they see it's some kind of a toy company just out of.

Steve

The future of toys or whatever.

Nic

Nowhere. So they're like, all right, what. Let's get out of here. This is clearly. This is clearly a legitimate toy company surrounded by, like, helicopter security and stuff. So they decide, like, this has got to be it. And then we notice this one office always has the light on. So this has to be Cosmo's office.

Steve

Because they're not turning off any of the sensors.

Nic

Right. So this is where the thing is being kept, this office next door. Let's find out who's next door to him so we can use that to get in. And then we get to see our man, Mr. 180IQ himself, Werner Brandis, who is played by Stephen Tablowski of Ned Ryerson From Groundhog Day fame.

Steve

From Spaceballs.

Nic

From space.

Steve

Like, the number of.

Nic

He's our number one actor we've done so far.

Steve

I think it's either him or Benjamin Bratt, but it's, like, right there. It might be. I think Stephen Tobowski is like, the official mascot of 2Dads1.

Nic

I think so, yeah. Oh, my God. So he's a very. It's such a small role, but he's so perfect as just being. Oh, my God. This is the guy we have to deal with to try to get this information. And they have a voice recognition access system.

Steve

Right.

Nic

So what they need to do is send somebody along with him to get enough recording of his voice so that they can recreate this to get into his office.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

So they're trying to figure out who. Who we're going to send to this.

Steve

Right. So they are. Basically, they have to, like, investigate him a little bit. They've moved to Liz's apartment. They feel like the loft is. Is dangerous. She has allowed them, again, super cool, to basically all move in and set up all their equipment, whatever, in her place, which makes it, you know, wild. And then, you know, mother shows up with bags of. Of garbage. And she. He's like, sorry, Liz, like, standard procedure. I got to go through the guy's trash. She's like, oh, thanks for bringing it into my apartment. But they go through, and it's like, you know, the dude's got, like, no gambling problems. He's got, like a $750 limit on his credit card. He pays off every month. He's got, like, there's trying to figure out how to get to him.

Nic

No access point to corrupt this guy.

Steve

This is. Right. This is not like an easy mark, like, easily corruptible person. But they do see in his garbage that he tries to do computer dating. So he must be lonely. Okay, well, then maybe we can send a woman. They start talking about women they know who could do the job, whatever. And. And Carl. What about your friend Becky? Carl? Yeah, she's buff. And Liz points out, like, guys, like, this guy's not looking for someone who's buff, like, or whatever that means. Like, you know, this is a meticulous, careful person, you know, who's looking for, like, a long term thing. And mother even says, this is the nicest garbage I've ever seen.

Nic

Yeah. And she's like, we need somebody that's anal. And then all the crew turns and looks right at her, which is up.

Steve

Because she has been so cool.

Nic

So cool, but also cool about Taking that joke about being anal once again. So Liz has been volunteered then, to be the computer match date for Werner Brandis.

Steve

Yes. And she has to get him to say the line, not obviously all at once, but all the pieces of. So they can piece it back together. Hi, my name is Werner Brandis. My voice is my passport. Verify me. They have to get all those words, which, like, some of them are really easy, right? Name. Hi. Name. Like whatever. But, like, verify and passport do seem like. Yeah, fairly complicated words to work into a conversation. But yeah. So she goes on a date with Warner. It's to a Chinese restaurant. She has to now sit through dinner with this guy who is. Werner is, by all, the worst date. Oh, my God. Terrible date. Horrible conversationalist, not interesting at all. But she is able to get. Finally, before they. They have to, like, leave the. The restaurant because they're kicking him out, she does get him to finally say passport by just literally asking him straight up.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And he thinks the date's going great because she's obviously so interested. She has to pretend to be so interested to get this that he goes, can I. Can I. Would you. Would you have breakfast with me? And she goes, sure. You know, shall I phone you or nudge you?

Nic

Oh. So he just, like, puts it over the top. I know when she first got there, he said something like, are you ready for the dim sum bar? And she's like, oh, no, you know, I'm not ready yet. He was like, okay. And then just, like, puts his head down and walks straight.

Steve

I'll be right back. I gotta get my dips on.

Nic

He's like. He's like Ben Affleck in the Accountant without, like, any of the CIA skills. He's, like, just socially really, really funny, though. So then. So he's, like, feeling it a little bit. And now she's back at his place, and they just had dim sum, but now.

Steve

So it's the next day.

Nic

Okay, so it's the next day because.

Steve

Yeah, because basically now they've re. They've pieced together the audio for Martin to go in and try to steal. But, like, they also. They have a few different things they gotta deal with. They gotta get his card, right. So that he can use it to get in. They've got the voice thing. And then they needed to raise the temperature of Cosmo's room to 98.6 degrees because he has heat sensors and motion sensors, right? So all these things have to happen. So they had to do some prep time. So right now, what's happened? Is Liz is at Werner's house. Mother goes and from out the window she's able to like hand Werner's wallet out. He finds the Playtronics, you know, access card, gives the wallet back. So it like seems like, you know, everything's okay. And they're going in there trying the heist now. So Carl has snuck in as a gardener and he's like in the access stuff and raising the temperature in the room. And now Martin can show up after it's like 8 o' clock at night or something with Werner's card and with the recording of his. That phrasing that he needed to say.

Nic

Right, okay.

Steve

So that's where we're kind of at.

Nic

Okay. I was a little lost on the time in there because I was like, wait, he just hogged down on dim sum. Like, he definitely wouldn't be making dinner for them. Right.

Steve

But this is the bigger example of Warner being a terrible date is the conversation he's having with with Liz while mother is getting the card out of his wallet.

Nic

Bottom of a monkey cage.

Steve

Monkey cage. Where it's like, oh, you want to know the best diet? You should eat. Look at the bottom of a monkey cage. It's all fruits and nuts. And it's like, no, dude, that's poop. That's like, what?

Nic

Terrible.

Steve

And it's just so gross.

Nic

But anyway, yeah, it's such a but he's great at just being a terrible date that just has her like, oh my God, this guy. So when they go River Phoenix as the gardener.

Steve

Right.

Nic

He's got to go in and. And then sneak around.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

During the taping for Fletch, we were talking about Fletch and the other guy being like reasonable, like the same body type.

Steve

Oh, right.

Nic

They were interchangeable. Dan Aykroyd and River. I feel like dan Aykroyd's like 6, 3, 270 pounds and right.

Steve

5 inches taller, 100 pounds heavier, 30 years older.

Nic

Really funny. Like, hey, as long as you have the same hat, it's fine. I do also want to say Chevy Chase in many of his films is rocking just like top notch hats. Like the Chicago Bears hat Clark Griswold had. This Niners hat is not a good hat. They could have done a better hat.

Steve

No, A's hat that mother wears on the original, we discovered the Playtronics thing that, that trip, he's wearing a backwards A's cap, which looks dope. It's the classic green and gold bill and everything. But yeah, no, the Niners hat is not A great Niner set. Although I'll be honest, I'm pretty sure I owned that exact 49ers hat when I was 11 or 12 years old. Yeah.

Nic

So Carl is. Is getting the temperature up like you said. And Marty is in. He's been able to access now Werner Brandis's office.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So he has the recording and stuff. It was kind of a funny gag where he goes to play it, but it plays too fast. And so it's like. And then it says, please speak slower, which is really funny.

Steve

Which I thought if it was wrong, it was immediately supposed to, like, get you right. Clearly the machine gave it like, oh, you can try again. Yeah, you can try again.

Nic

Yeah, I'm. I have a little bit of a bone to pick with the Verify me. I feel like it just says, my voice is my passport. Verify me. Like, you couldn't get a stronger me out of that. It sounded like it just melded into one. But it worked.

Steve

It does work.

Nic

And it got him in. So Marty's in, and we can see that the log is printing out, like, who has accessed what room at what time. So it says Warner Brand is 8:32pm Whatever. He's. He's gone into the office.

Steve

Room 309, whatever it is.

Nic

Yeah. And he is. So now he has to go up through the ceiling. Yep. And into Cause's office.

Steve

Right. To drop down. Let's cut real quick. I don't know exactly where in the sequence happens, but getting back to the date between Werner and Liz. He has shown her this puppy dog toy that he made where he's able to tell it play dead, and it falls over and she's like, oh, it's cute. She goes to make a phone call because basically she wants to find out, how much longer do I have to stay here, guys? She should try to get out of this thing. But while he is telling her where to find the phone. Oh, it's upstairs in the bedroom. Just. Just go upstairs, turn right. And then. And then walk straight ahead. And when he says walk straight ahead, the little dog walks straight ahead, knocking Liz's purse off the table. At which point he sees her wallet has, like, fallen open. And her ID doesn't have the name because she gave him the Doris.

Nic

I think.

Steve

That's right. And her ID says Elizabeth, whatever her name is. And so now he's like, whoa. And now he's thinking, oh, I love the word passport. Oh, I love it. So he goes up and says, hey, Doris, let's go for a drive. Doesn't give away fully that she's in deep shit. But like, like should have been a bad sign for her because he's going to take her to work because he is confident that she has asked him to say those things and has whatever. All this stuff to. To get into his office. And I don't know if he's realizes already that he doesn't have his access card or what, but like, he might have. I can't think he maybe figures that out when they get there. But anyway, it's like basically he's bringing her there to confront that there is somebody sneaking into his office. So now Marty is. Has to move less than 2 inches per second. That was what they said about the motion centers, which all. By the way, those sharks are swimming through that tank at more than 2 inches per second. So why aren't they constantly setting that alarm off? But okay. And so he has to move super slow. But now Kreese and Mother realize Werner has shown up with Liz to the office. And so Kreese goes, marty, you better hurry up.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

He's like, the one thing I can't do is hurry. But he makes it all the way over to the desk. He makes it to the box. He's able to take the box out of the briefcase that it's in and slowly walk all the way back to. There's like a dead corner. He's able to sort of get out in and out through, and he has it with him. But now it's like, not only has Werner showed up with Liz, but the security guys or the guys that were the quote, NSA agents that obviously work for Cosmo. They're alerted to like, there's this problem at the front desk. Cosmo himself shows up to like, figure out what's going on, which. I mean, does he live. Why was he there and not in his office? It was kind of strange, but it.

Nic

Yeah. If like a random like GI Joe, like Stormtrooper, like had an issue with security, would Cobra Commander come there?

Steve

Like, what?

Nic

Cosmo's gotta. He's gonna pick and choose a little bit. I mean, I know he's a little extra sensitive, clearly, but he does show up.

Steve

And so they're just like, you know, basically Warner keep saying they're trying to break in an office, someone's trying to break him. And he goes, let's check his office.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So they go upstairs. He's got a remote control for that fancy the man trap. They kept calling it where the. Where the. The verify me thing has to be said. So they bust their Way through there. They go into Warner's office. It seems like moments after Marty has been able to gather all his gear and get back up into the ceiling. So he doesn't, you know, get found, but, you know, nothing's missing, nothing's wrong, everything's fine. And it's like, so, you know, they apologize to Liz, say, sorry, ma', am, that, you know, they've been bothering you. And Warner's like, I guess everything's okay. And she slips up, not realizing that she would by saying, last time I. They do computer dating, right? And this beings.

Nic

Cosmo does not, by the way, a computer match them up. I don't.

Steve

I don't think so. Wait here.

Nic

Okay, so then this, this here Cosmo, it clicks in his head. And I think he immediately realizes that Marty is doing something right. So if anyone is. Has access to this film and they're watching at home, I. I implore you, please watch this scene. Cosmo says, Marty. And then he does the silliest run I've ever seen in my life over to his office. I don't understand. I think he just went to like, Steven Seagal jogging school or something. Like, it's the anti liquid metal Terminator run. It's the least intimidating run I've ever seen.

Steve

Have you ever watched the TV show Schitt's Creek?

Nic

Yeah, a little bit.

Steve

There's a character, Bob, he has bad cystic acne and owns the garage. And he does what we call the Bob jog every once in a while where he just does this really silly little jog over places. And that looked like a Bob jog. It really was very similar.

Nic

It was a really real goofy run. And then he goes in there and he opens the door.

Steve

Why is it so hot in here? Like, I mean, 98.6 is hot as hell for indoor not.

Nic

Okay, so they. They know that Marty's up and Marty is up in the vents.

Steve

Well, let's not. Let's not skip the. One of the best lines. Bill Kingsley delivers, right? He opens up the case, the box is gone. He goes. He's got extra A's in Marte.

Nic

That got him. That got him his knighthood. The delivery of that one line along.

Steve

Nothing to do with. With playing Gandhi. No.

Nic

They know that Marty's in the building and it's just really a matter of time, right? So he's trapped in there. We got the head goon, like, just firing a shotgun into the tiles, which.

Steve

Like, because he hears. He hears Marty's earpiece. So.

Nic

Right.

Steve

So mother and Kreese are both talking in Marty's ear, trying to tell him where to go. Or maybe it's Whistler, but, like, two of the people are trying to do this. Carl is also up in the system somewhere because he had to deal with the H Vac. So they're both in the ceiling, and Buddy Wallace comes through a door with his big shotgun and hears the earpiece as, I mean, Chris is screaming into the walkie talkie, like, Marty and you hear me? And whatever. So he knows he's there. So he starts yet doing the, like, Die Hard shooting up, you know, as he keeps backing up in the. In the thing and. And gets to the point where he's going to blow him away. And Cosmo comes over the loudspeaker and says, stop shooting. Yep. Marty, listen to me. You know, he has his whole, I'm.

Nic

Your only way out.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I'm not gonna kill you. I can't kill my friend.

Steve

I can't kill my friend.

Nic

Right. So. So he comes down. He has no choice. And Bishop comes down and basically, you know, he gives Cosmo what he wants. The other Ns, the fake NSA guys still have their guns on, so we get the good. I can't kill my friend. Kill my friend.

Steve

Kill my friend. But at that point, Bishop just says, okay, Carl. Okay, Carl. Yeah, Carl. At which point River Phoenix flies through the acoustic tile that he's been above them and tackles one of the guys. You know, there's a struggle, and they're able to sort of get the guns from these two. And I love this line, too, because after all of it, Martin looks at Carl and goes, what took you so long? Carlos goes, that wasn't easy, what I just did. Like, he jumped through the ceiling onto a guy he couldn't see. That was impressive. It was very impressive.

Nic

Yeah, that was. That was a good move there. And Guy, good Carl moment. I mean, his. His character just having this, like, youthful energy along with the rest of that crew balanced it out so well.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So then Kreese and Mother are waiting in the truck along with Whistler, and they're waiting to pick them up. And then they get, you know, the security guards pull up on them.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

But they only. They don't see Whistler in the back. They pull Kreese and Mother out of there, basically.

Steve

Not before one of them calls Kreese. Midnight.

Nic

Yes. We have to. The extra racism. Sprinkler. I swear there was someone that worked at the MPAA who's like, if this white guy is going to get Killed. We need to also make him say.

Steve

A racist thing because Kreese has been so mild mannered. Right. We need to piss him off somehow. Right. So this would be a good way to do it. Reminded me of Back to the Future. They refer to the band in 1955. Some of the kids use real racial slurs for them as well. It felt out of place just because of, like, the timing or the time of it.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But, you know, obviously the 90s were not some, you know, fairy tale. There were lots of racist happening. But, you know, this clearly bothers Crease.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So Whistler climb. So they're now out in front and the guys are basically holding her, trying to get a hold of the rest of the security team, it seems like. But also just being menacing and threatening them with the guns. Whistler climbs up into the driver's seat and has got. Still got Martin on the. On the radio and goes, Martin. I. I'm like, I don't know what to do.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Whistler, you're gonna have to drive. Drive what? Drive. Drive the truck. So he talks him through it. It's like, all right, you know, you need to go in reverse. Tell. Pull the lever. One down, floor it. He blasts through a. A, like a gate behind him or something. Yeah. But upon the truck moving, that draws the attention of the security guards, at which point Kreese is able to like, attack the one with a shotgun and train it on him and deliver the badassest line Sidney Poitier has probably ever said in a movie when he says, you mess with me, I'll split your head.

Nic

It's like, I know. He's so, like, measured the entire time. So it's very satisfying to see him finally get to flip on someone who deserved.

Steve

Deserved.

Nic

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, Whistler driving the truck. This is another just fantastic scene here. And it's. And it's going back and he's telling him, okay, you're gonna feel a slight bump. And then of course, it goes like.

Steve

You know, he's going over curves and over like, berms. It's great.

Nic

So he. Yeah, he ends up getting to the building.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And he's kind of crashing into it.

Steve

A little bit, but he's okay.

Nic

So. So they're all down the ladder. I don't know why Marty didn't come down the ladder earlier. He was just on the roof for a while.

Steve

Well, he was up there to, to direct, but he still kind of should have probably been coming down soon.

Nic

A little bit of lollygagging, a little Bit. But it gives enough time for Cosmo to emerge from the roof with a gun. Just say, come on, Marty. Marty is. Already knows. He's like, look, you've proven yourself to be a coward. You're not going to kill me.

Steve

Yeah, exactly right. You got to. You do what you got to do. Cause, yeah, I'm leaving, like.

Nic

But he makes one last plea. Come on, Marty, me and you, we're going to change the world like we always planned on doing, blah, blah, blah. And Marty's just like, no, sorry, buddy. Yeah, I got a girlfriend now. I don't have time for my friends anymore. So. So they, they escape. But they have the device.

Steve

Yes, they do.

Nic

And they are greeted, I think, immediately.

Steve

They go back to the loft. Right, right. Because they've been avoiding the loft. They've been at least. But they go back to the loft, I think probably just intending to call the NSA back and be like, hey, we have it now. But they are greeted by, yes, more armed agents with guns, machine gun, even one of them has at least. And. And Mr. Abbott has arrived.

Nic

Right.

Steve

So James Earl Jones is now on screen. We love seeing James Earl Jones. And basically the NSA has come and he's like, the nsa, whatever. And Martin's like, this is interesting, isn't it, that the NSA would be here on American soil, not the FBI. This is interesting. And so they're realizing the NSA needs to keep this quiet. They want this box. They need this box. But they also cannot just. First of all, they're not just going to kill them all and try to cover it up or whatever, but they also don't want any other agencies to find out. Yeah. So basically, Martin goes into the whole, like, well, you're going to start giving us what we want or you're going to read about it in Newsweek. Yeah. And so basically, all the stuff that they all talked about, what they would do with the money, they start asking for. A couple of moments I loved in this one. One of them is Chris is saying, you know, I've never taken my wife to Europe. And James, I'm very sorry for you. Okay, well, you're going to buy me first class tickets to Italy and to Greece and to Scotland and to Tahiti. Tahiti is not in Europe. And Carl goes, sir, when you have the box, you can give us geography lessons.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

But until then, this man goes to Europe or this man goes to Tahiti.

Nic

So good. So good. Yeah. And then, let's see, we had mother wants his Winnebago like you talked about.

Steve

So it's not a car dealership.

Nic

And then Whistler wants peace on earth and goodwill towards men.

Steve

Yes. And to which he says, we're the American government. We don't do that sort of thing.

Nic

One of the best lines here do.

Steve

That sort of thing.

Nic

And then Carl, he just wanted the phone number of one of the cute gals who had a machine gun trained on him.

Steve

The agent. The young lady with the Uzi.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Is she seeing anyone?

Nic

Yes. So that was a great little wrap up for Carl's character.

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

And yeah, they all kind of got what they wanted. And here's the blocks. Just to let you know, it doesn't work.

Steve

It never works.

Nic

It never works. And then they say, oh, well, you.

Steve

Know, as long as you. As long as you know, it's never happened. This has never been here. This doesn't exist.

Nic

We never saw each other and all that.

Steve

But yeah.

Nic

And then I think the last scene that we're shown now that the. The crew is safe and everything, they've. They've gotten their demands met, is a news report saying that the Republican National Committee is out of money.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

They don't understand it. They had a bunch of money and it's all gone. And in other news, there have been big donations to Amnesty International, Greenpeace and the United Negro College.

Steve

There you go.

Nic

Just a great way to kind of end, like, oh, because Marty revealed, like, I still have the chip. Like the main thing, the thing that's.

Steve

The most important piece was pulled out of the device. And so, and so clearly he, you know, gets to. It kind of comes full circle. Marty does end up getting to do. To change the world the way he wanted to, the way he and Kaz talked about. You know, it's interesting, I think that thinking about, because this is where the movie ends, is there's no more to it. But, you know, it is a little interesting. Like, what does Cosmo do next? He still obviously has power and money and this organization and he's going to want to keep trying to get the box, right. Yeah. I just don't see why he would let Marty alone. It seems like there's probably additional danger for Martin Bishop, but because there was nothing about.

Nic

It was about clearing Marty's record so he could stay where he is. It's not like I need a new identity. I need you to die. Disappear me.

Steve

No. So he's still like, he's Martin Bryce again.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

He just. He actually gets to go back to being the name he once was.

Nic

Yeah. So I wonder if he's just so Confident by, like Cosmo breaking down, unable to kill him, that he's like, you're not going to do such a thing to me. But yeah, I mean, Cosmo's still out there.

Steve

We are.

Nic

We're still wide open for sneakers too.

Steve

We are. I mean, God, I can't even imagine.

Nic

We have 70% of the cast still alive. We're ready to do it. Oh, man, what a fun one.

Steve

So good. What a.

Nic

What a ride. Like, the stakes are incredibly high, but in the moment, it's just like, this guy might get killed. Like, it's not talking a whole lot about, like, the end of the world type scenarios that could happen if this falls into the wrong hands. It doesn't really get too doomsdayish about that.

Steve

No, but it does. It does give us that info. It hints at it when they're doing it. When they're doing it. And it's like the national power grid and the air traffic control. It's like the amount of absolute chaos, death and destruction that you could cause if you were able to just shut down the power grid or even worse, overload it. Right. Which could cause explosions all over the place. It's, you know, that's super scary. And so, yeah, there is this very global level stakes at play. But the movie does such a good job of keeping us in the characters and in their struggles.

Nic

Like, it's not a save the world scenario, even though it is.

Steve

It's not a superhero movie.

Nic

Right?

Steve

Right. Even though it kind of could be a superhero. They are the Avengers.

Nic

Right.

Steve

In some ways. But it's so much more by keeping it small scale. And again, this only works because the acting is so good through the whole cast, they're all so interesting, and every time they get a chance to steal a scene, they do. And every one of these actors steals a scene at some point completely. And so because of that, the movie stays so small that we can have these high stakes, but it doesn't feel overbearing that the weight of it is a little lighter. And so it makes a much more enjoyable movie. Maybe more of just like a simple watch, but yet, you know, just. Yeah. Everything about this movie is really quite, quite fantastic. There's definitely parts of it that, as a Bay Area resident, are a little like, you guys didn't. That's not right. That's wrong.

Nic

Not everyone went to UC, though. Yeah, well, I guess. Should I. Should I rate this one?

Steve

Yeah, go ahead.

Nic

Yeah. So my pick. Very happy that I picked it. I feel like this movie holds up incredibly well. I Mean, especially again, for something that. That's so technology focused. I think that what they're doing in almost all these cases is understandable, even if that's not the technology we use right now.

Steve

Sure.

Nic

Like you could kind of understand, okay, what they're doing. That's cool. And I get why that's advanced and I get why this is useful and everything.

Steve

Right.

Nic

I love the gadgets. I love the little references to things. Like I said, this was something. I asked my dad a bunch of questions about stuff and I learned about diplomatic immunity and all these things. And like, it was cool to. To get all that explained through this movie. I like the espionage. And again, the cast is just really unbeatable. I'm gonna give this one a four out of five. I think there were a couple parts maybe where it was a little slow, but not the fault of the movie. Just like the way that this story needs to be told. But I love this. I would watch it again. I had so much fun with it. So I'm giving this four out of five.

Steve

Yeah, I think. I think I'm kind of right in the same place you're at. You know, we've talked about. We mentioned it before, we'll mention it again. About perfect movies. This one doesn't. Doesn't tick that box for me. It's not perfect, per se, but fantastically fun. Incredible cast. We can't say enough about the cast. In fact, we won't ever stop saying enough about the cast. I also am a 4 out of 5. This is a fantastic movie. 8 out of 10 from the 2 dads. And I think that, you know, again, this is one of the things where you've probably seen Sneakers if you're listening, but if you haven't, this is well worth it.

Nic

Really good.

Steve

This is. If you missed this one somehow through, you know, your life and you just didn't catch it when it was out or any time. Since this is one to watch. Fantastic cast, wonderful story. And I think you're right. Nothing about it is so dated that it's hard to follow. They do a good enough job explaining something. Frankly, a lot of the technology that's in the movie never really existed in the first place. A lot of it was made up stuff, you know, so it doesn't even have to like, fit anything in particular. Cool. All right.

Nic

All right, well, what do we have coming up next? Steve? This was mine. What do you have?

Steve

So much like this movie had like this incredible cast. The movie we're going to watch next does have a very Very good cast, but also just in general, the creative team behind it is like 80s and 90s movie royalty. This is a movie that came out in 1989. It's a movie that is directed by, I mean the best, the greatest director of the era. I assume we can say this Steven Spielberg. The man had one or two half misses in his career. Everything else was a total banger. I'm looking at you, AI, Artificial intelligence. But so yeah, Steven Spielberg directed. It's produced by Frank Marshall and George Lucas. The music in it is by John Williams. It stars Harrison Ford and Sean Connery. We're going to watch Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. In my opinion, the best of the Indiana Jones trilogy. And yes, I said trilogy because I only acknowledge the existence of the first three films. This is the best one in my opinion. Very excited to watch it.

Nic

Can I give you a quick note on this? I have never seen this ludicrous.

Steve

But hey, I, I am, I am jealous of you that you'll get to experience it for the first time.

Nic

No vcr. Life really caught up to me. I've seen the, the first two Indiana Jones probably twice each, maybe three times. Oh, wow. So I'm familiar but not as like ultra familiar. So it'll be interesting to see this as like a, a new viewing form.

Steve

That's fantastic. That's going to be a lot of fun. So, yeah. So next week folks, we will watch Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. If you, you would do us the honor. If you're enjoying what you're hearing, head over to Apple or Spotify. Leave us a five star review. It helps people find the show. If you want to send us an email, which some of you listeners have started sending us emails, which is totally fun. Thank you so much. You can send those emails to the show@2dads1movie.com. That's the number two and the number one. Ask us questions. Let us know what we said, right or wrong. Like the fact that I called Robert Patrick, Jason Patrick 100 times during the T2 episode. That kind of thing. Go ahead and send that email over to us. Us. This has been another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. This has been the movie Sneakers. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you all so much for listening and we'll be back with you next week.

Nic

Thanks everyone.