Transcript

Intro Clip

Look, in what I do, there are sometimes pressures. What the hell do you think that I do? Come on, Come on, come on. Every morning I walk in for five months, say hi. What the hell do you think that I do? You sell little fucking cars, that's what you do. I wear a hundred and fifty dollar slacks. I wear silk shirts. I wear eight hundred dollar suits. I wear a gold watch. I wear a perfect D flawless 3 carat ring. I change cars like other guys change their fucking shoes. I'm a thief. I've been in prison. All right, so what? I don't care. So what? Don't tell me so what? I never even told my wife that I don't care who is now gone. Did I ever come on to you? No. What'd you see? See? See what? See, I. I am a straight arrow. I am a true blue kind of a guy. I've been cool. I am now unmarried. So let's cut the mini moves and the bullshit and get on with this big romance. What? I don't believe it. Do you think that I have been waiting for you to come along? What is this shit? You think I'm kidding? I can tell this is strictly on the upper end.

Steve

It's two Dads one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit, shoot the shit about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are discussing the 1981 crime noir sort of drama thriller ish Thief, starring James Caan. And Nic, this is when you picked for us. And this is our second stop in our two dads two decades march, which is why we're in 1981. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about Thief and why you chose it for us.

Nic

Yeah, I thought I'd take kind of a. I don't know, like swerve a little bit for this one. Because I was looking at, you know, the big movies of 1981 and I think, you know, the biggest obvious one, Raiders of the Lost Ark. Right, sure. But we had done an Indiana Jones film already. And then I started thinking about like which directors, which actors were relevant maybe during this time period. Who haven't we seen?

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And this is Michael Mann's first film. And Michael Mann became very relevant to, especially with television in the 80s, okay. With Miami Vice and everything. But then gave us some great films later on. So I thought, hey, maybe this would be a Neat direction to take. I like the mood of this movie. I had never seen it before, but I'd heard good things about it. So I'm trying to, like, expand, you know, my knowledge of that era, especially because when it comes to 80s movies, for the most part, the ones that I like and watch a lot started in maybe 85, 86. Right. So early 80s is a little unfamiliar to me. So I thought, hey, maybe this is a good one to take a look at.

Steve

Yeah, that's awesome. I had actually not only never seen Thief before you brought it to the table, I'd never heard of it. When I saw it on the schedule, I went, what is thief from 19 1? I gotta look into this. Yeah. So, yeah, James Caan, Jim Belushi, Willie Nelson.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

Michael Mann's debut. That's so cool. And I agree with you about the, like, kind of early 80s things. I think one of the reasons I wanted to do this 2 dads 2 decades setup was before last week when we did Airplane. We had not had any movies before 1982. In our, you know, on the podcast. Yeah. I think we'd only had one from 82, none from 83. It was like. Or maybe vice versa. But it was like Trading Places was like, one of the few from that early. And you're right, I think for me, like, 84, with, like, Ghostbusters and Beverly Hills Cop, and that kind of sets a stage for the 80s movies that I love.

Nic

Yeah, totally. And then there's a certain, like, aesthetic of a lot of the 80s movies. Like the way that they all kind of evolved. Things that you'd expect to see in a film started maybe around that, like, 84 time. Right?

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Where we get our. Our, like, back Ghostbusters and then, you know, Back to the Future, the next year and stuff like that. So this still has kind of a 70s movie feel of it. If you're looking at these older, like, you know, French Connection and.

Steve

Right.

Nic

These grittier type of movies.

Steve

Well, grittier or. But even just the style which it has, the style feels very 70s to me. The way people are dressed, the cars they're driving, all this stuff. It's. When I think about, like, a movie like Caddyshack, which is from 1980, but feels like a 1970s movie. Yeah, 100%. Like the way people are dressed and the way people are acting, it feels very, very late 70s. But really, what's the difference, right? Like 78, 79, 80, 81, like, whatever. But anyway, here we are talking about Thief. Both of us came into this fresh. So, you know, I guess there's really nothing for us to do but like jump into the facts and start a conversation.

Nic

Yeah, let's find out some facts about this one.

Steve

So the movie Thief was released on March 27, 1981 with an R rating, a running time of 123 minutes. It is the directorial, at least feature directorial debut of Michael Mann. He also wrote the screenplay from a novel by Frank Homer. The movie stars James Caan, Tuesday Weld, and Jim Belushi, credited as James Belushi as he was often at that point.

Nic

That's when he was. That's when he was James Thespian. Yeah, Exactly.

Steve

Rotten Tomatoes. 80% fresh. So very high fresh score from Rotten Tomatoes. IMDb a 7.44, which is, you know, the good to solid good to extra good kind of ballpark as you approach 7 5, you know, that's when you start getting into like, it's like a.

Nic

BB plus from IMDb or something like that.

Steve

And we get a pair of thumbs up from the homies, Siskel and Ebert.

Nic

What I did read though is that people don't really give as much weight to this double thumbs up because they accuse Siskel and Ebert of being Chicago homers. Because this is such a Chicago film, you know, they might have a little bias towards it. A couple of years later they voted Super Bowl Shuffle album of the year. So I don't know if we can trust them that much. But yeah, they were saying that, you know. All right, Gene and Bob, counterpoint.

Steve

Yeah, their Chicago ness should have been so, to its core offended by James Caan's terrible accent that it seems like maybe that would have gone against the film and maybe they really loved it in order to give it two thumbs up. Yeah, because that accent is such dog shit.

Nic

Wait, he sounds just like he's one from one of the five boroughs of Chicago.

Steve

He sounds like one of James Khan super fans is what he sounds like. It's real bad. Anyway, on that topic, by the way, on the awards tip, there were no that I could find references to positive awards, nominations or otherwise. Movie. Yeah, at the 1981 the Stinkers bad Movie Awards. I think it was on at the same time as the Razzies, but apparently we used to have to have two of these. Yeah, and I think we saw the Stinkers at Spaceballs. It got a nomination for something which I thought was asinine.

Nic

They should call it the Haters. I don't.

Steve

Haters award. Yeah. So winner, most annoying fake accent female for Tuesday. Weld and most intrusive musical score for composer Tangerine Dream. Also nominated but did not win the Razzie for worst musical score. The film was also nominated but did not win the Stinkers Awards for worst actor for James Kahn. Worst actress for Tuesday Weld. Worst on screen couple for James Con and Tuesday Weld. And most annoying fake accent male for Mr. Khan. So damn. Lots of hate for this movie from the Stinkers Bad Movie Awards.

Nic

It's like organized by some valet that James Kahn punched in 1975 or something.

Steve

To be fair, the accent is horrific. So we'll get into that more. But anyway, on a five and a half million dollar budget, which, you know, pretty. Feels pretty run of the mill for that era. Like not. Not particularly higher. Particularly low for early 80s.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

It returned 11 and a half million for 2.1 times what it cost, which is a success, like whether or not it wasn't a hit. But it did what it was supposed to do, earned his money back and certainly wasn't a flop in any way. And this is, you know, James Caan at this point in his career is, you know, taking lead roles and being the leading man. But he, you know, he was also a producer on this movie. So this was something where, you know, he was very much involved behind the scenes as well as on camera and was able to, you know, make sure that this movie got made. I think to some extent. Yeah. Whether he was a fan of the, I think the home. The novel was called the Home Invaders or the House Invaders by. By Frank Homer, whether he was like a fan of that work and wanted to do a movie of it or just liked man screenplay and ideas, not sure. But Khan is listed, I think as an executive producer on the film.

Nic

Okay. Yeah. It's a very James Kahn character. And quick thought on his accent, if I'm going to counterpoint this play devil's advocate here. His accent, like when he gets into his backstory a little bit. He was basically, you know, raised in the foster care system, but pretty much immediately was incarcerated, you know, into like his mid-30s or early-30s or whatever. So he spent his entire life just kind of in these tough situations. And what he emerged with is the generic tough guy accent. So he just sounds like your standard tough guy from, you know, unknown origins because we don't know where his like foster system and stuff.

Steve

Fair. But I think, I think the origins are fairly well known. It's the Chicagoland area because that's what, like that really is what at least caricatures of Chicagoans sound Like whether or not that. Because I've never been to Chicago. I know no one, you know, who grew up in Chicago and carries that accent with them. So I don't know for sure how wrong it is. I just know it sounds cartoonish to my ears.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And I guess it sounds like Bill Swirsky on Saturday Night Live.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve

So. All right. Those are the facts on Thief. So. Right. Why don't we kick it off, man? How does the movie start?

Nic

Yeah, so this movie, I feel like, is. It's kind of like a vibe movie.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

It's like a. To me, it becomes. If you let yourself kind of become a little immersed in it, like, the look is very cool, the sounds are very cool, but you have to kind of settle into it because there's not a lot of like, you know, snappy dialogue or there's not a lot of like attention grabbing stuff that happens necessarily, especially the first half of the movie.

Steve

Right.

Nic

But we start off with some really cool looking, like Chicago night shots, you know, and we got some great synth music. The Tangerine Dream, great thing. I love this. So I think. I think this is something I would say at the beginning. If you like the music, you're going to enjoy this movie. If you don't like the music because it's such a. That's what I. That's what I dug, is the kind of combination of the look and the. And the music. But we base. Oh, and I saw that Jerry Bruckheimer was a.

Steve

Was one of the producers on this.

Nic

So we basically start with. With Jimmy Khan. Frank and him and Jim Belushi are kind of like a tag team. They have a getaway driver guy too, and they're working on this like, very detailed kind of safe operation. He's got really cool equipment. I think they do a good job of showing like the close up of the actual mechanics of breaking into the safe and everything. So he's got this huge drill. They've got a million wires that they have to like disable or reroute or whatever.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And yeah, to me, once the drill goes into the wall of the safe, that to me is like the dick going in. That's like this movie has started. This movie has begun here. All right, So I like this scene. I like this beginning. And he ends up getting into this big safe and it's full of jewelry that he's just whipping around the room, you know, like the FBI turning over somebody's house looking for drugs. And he ends up just stealing a bunch of diamonds that are in these little envelopes. So that's what he's after. And I, I think this movie has made me a better safecracker.

Steve

I see. Yeah. I, I was wondering as I was watching this opening sequence. First of all, I, I, I like Jim Belushi's character in this. Barry I think is his name and he's sort of like the alarm guy. So that's what we see him doing outside is like messing with the junction box for the phone company to like reroute all the alarms so that nothing trips. Basically. He's kind of cool in that, doing that stuff. I did. I don't know that much about safe cracking. I looked up a little bit about what is shown in this movie after the fact because to me this looked like this doesn't take skill. He's just got the right equipment. He puts a drill up against these drills into it, like what the heck. So you know, it turns out it's, it's all about knowing exactly where that has to go. You know, the schematics of the safe, like so it's a lot of the pre work, like once he does get to that point and he's in, in the room, it is kind of just like brute force. Like yeah, okay, fair enough. But yeah, to get to that point I think is where his skill set really like kind of comes in is like his experience and everything else. Because at first I'm like, how's this even a skilled thing? He's just borrowing into this and he's going to take it like I don't know. But it turns out there's a lot more to it. I'll, I'll accept that. And then I do love the classic and this is not the only movie that does this. But like why the hell do people leave loose cut diamonds not even in envelopes, dude, they're just wrapped up in paper. Little pieces of like, of like printer paper.

Nic

Terrible, terrible diamond storage. And, and I wrote this down too. This was driving me crazy. But yeah, I mean you go through all this trouble to make sure it's stored in this impenetrable fortress and then once it's inside, yeah, it's just, it's a piece of paper. It's easy to lose those guys.

Steve

Scotch tape on it.

Nic

Get a little manila envelope, something, you know, something right?

Steve

It's, it's pretty wild.

Nic

A little Crown Royal bag.

Steve

It must be a thing where you need them separated into groups that have few enough diamonds in them that you would need too many envelopes. So you just do this with paper, I guess. Like, I. I'm not 100% sure. I. I want to comment on a couple things you said already, which is like, I 100% agree that the vibe and visuals of this movie are cool as hell. Like, this movie's cool. There's kind of no way around that. It is a cool movie. Visually, I am on the board. I'm on board with the Stinkers and the Razzies. This score took me out of the movie every time it showed up. It is too harsh. It is too abrasive to me. It does not fit the feel. Imagine this movie with a little Coltrane or Miles Davis jazz instead of this psychotic EDM whatever, electronic. I played some of it for my wife while I was watching it, because she wasn't watching it with me. She had no interest. Totally understand. But, like, I was like, hey, listen to this. And, you know, whatever. And we both agreed it sounds like Vangelis score for Blade Runner. Evangelist didn't have any talent. It's kind of what it feels like. So not a fan of Tangerine Dream or the score personally. Oh, man, that's okay. What I am a fan of is are these characters. They're very obviously very pro operation. They're, like, separating the concerns. You know, the. The wheelman takes 1P and takes, like, the equipment and leaves. And then they go and they got this other car. They drive to a place where they park it in a garage and split up into two other cars and drive off. I mean, it's very cool. You get all of that. Like, this is clearly a very pro operation. These are not amateurs. These are not guys. Just smash and grab. This is like, you know, this is like the ocean's 11 heist, guys. Right? It's that level of pros, which is very cool. Very cool to watch.

Nic

Definitely. Definitely this score, actually, it reminded me a lot of the music that's kind of at the very beginning of the Warriors. Walter Hill, the Warriors, which is kind of also like a dark, inner city, like, kind of crumbling city type look. And I. I like it in that. So this reminds me of that a little bit. So, yeah, you know, this show@2dads1movie.com let us know what you think of the score because, yeah, it is polarizing, for sure.

Steve

Sure. Yeah.

Nic

One thing this is kind of missing, you know, you're talking about, like, the leg work is the biggest part of the job that he actually has to do because, you know, later on, he has to do a heist where he's given, like, four to eight weeks lead time, you know, so it's not like 24 hours. So I do like the realistic kind of timelines in this. There is not a scene, to my knowledge, of him walking in with like a big blueprint of a safe and swiping all the shit off a table and rolling the blueprint.

Steve

Missed opportunity.

Nic

I feel like we could have had that. So. So Frank, you know, we've got his, you know, they made the heist and everything. And then, you know, we get some cool little shots of him chatting it up with some people. And then he has some legit businesses. His main one is like this Ford Lincoln Mercury dealership that he has.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

So he's a car dealer and, you know, that's how he kind of like rinses his diamond.

Steve

Exactly. Like that's, that's one of his fronts to like keep. Keep things, keep appearances up. Right. You know, that's his. That's his car wash in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Nic

Yeah, for sure.

Steve

So, yeah, and I do love, like, him walking through the lot there and just kind of yelling at guys, hey, move this one over there. Put that car up there and da, da, da. It's like just being the boss in order to be a boss. Like not, you know, probably no purpose to any of that, but just, I'm gonna make the guys move around a little bit, earn their, their minimum wage, you know, let's go.

Nic

It's the equivalent of the TPS report. Right. It's like, go do some, some stuff.

Steve

So then he. We see him in a. Like a cafe of some kind. He's sitting in a booth and this is his fence that he's talking to, basically. And the guy, you know, takes the diamonds off his hands. I think he says they're worth, you know, 800 something thousand on the street. So 185,000 is what they say. 185,000, which is. Yeah, it's nearly a million dollars. No, maybe not quite that much, but it's like seven or fifty grand in today's dollars, give or take. Like that's a lot of money.

Nic

Well, and especially adjusted for what you could have gotten, right? So like real est and all this stuff. Like he could have got himself set up in a nice apartment probably in New York City. That would be 2 million bucks now.

Steve

Exactly. It's like worth. It's basically millions instead of hundreds of thousands, right? Yeah. In actual purchasing power. So it was a lot of money. So he makes the deal. I don't quite understand. He must have a long standing relationship with his fence. Because he gives him the diamonds without getting the money.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Which to me is like. Is that how that goes? I would assume you do that swap same time. Like, I don't know. Like.

Nic

Yeah, he's. He's violating a lot of, like, common sense.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Criminal stuff. Right.

Steve

I don't know why you would give up your loot without getting your payday, but. Yeah, but he does.

Nic

No, he does. And there goes. There goes his money. And then pretty much immediately, yeah, we.

Steve

Cut to that guy having taken a swan dive off of a. Out of a window onto the street below. Barry, Jim Belushi's character is calling Frank and telling him, like, hey, man, he's gone.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And the cash, you know, there's nothing on him. Like, I guess he checked the body maybe.

Nic

Yeah. And I think, you know, he was on his way. He was supposed to pick up the cash there and, you know, somebody beat them to it. So, yeah, he had. He had Frankenberry's cash on him when he died. So they're out all this money from the heist here, 185 grand. Somebody has it, right? Exactly.

Steve

Somebody took it. Yep.

Nic

So. So Frank goes. And it doesn't really tell us, like, how he knows where to go. Like, he just. He knows a name and he knows a general place to go.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So he goes into some office, which looks like the shittiest office in the world. The actual, like, main area where the desks are. It just seems like a miserable place to work. But then the executive office in the back is, like, as big as this entire area where 30 people are working.

Steve

Yeah. To continue to make yet another office space references you already have, it makes the office and office at. In Attack and office space look like paradise. Like, that place in Thief is just so drab and just.

Nic

It's storage B.

Steve

It's so bad. Yeah, yeah, Storage and B. Exactly.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So.

Nic

And James Kahn gets to do a little James Kahn in here. Here. So he goes in and the guy's. And this guy is, you know, like some kind of sub boss in the organized crime structure. Like.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I don't know exactly what he is, but he has a very kind of Fredo Corleone vibe to him.

Steve

Yeah, I agree.

Nic

And. And look to him. And he also looks like a combination of the guy in Happy Gilmore that's saying, hey, jackass, that guy and the giant guy who is Happy Gilmore's boss with the nail in his head. He's like a hybrid of those two guys. So James Kahn basically pulls a gun on Him. He's like. And this guy's like, I don't know what you're talking about. He's like, all right, give me my money. In three hours, you owe me 185 grand. You know, let's meet.

Steve

Yeah. And it's. It's interesting because it's clear that this. It's like a siding or plating or. Some of the business is a very generic industrial business that he walks into, you know, and it's clear that it also is a front, like his car dealership and. And the bar he owns and stuff. It's the same thing. This is. This is like. I mean, yeah, it might be a real business. Like, nobody gives a shit.

Nic

Right?

Steve

About the business.

Nic

And it's so generic. Like, he walks in. There's no real front desk. You just kind of walk into where everybody's desk is a bullpen. And he just tells someone, hey, I got a problem with my plating. I need to see the main boss. And then they let him in there.

Steve

So. Yeah. Bad security there. Yeah. So there's that. And then I believe the next step is we are in jail for. For a moment here. Not. Not in jail. Frank goes to jail to visit his buddy Oklahoma. Yes. And Oklah is his middle name. Very interesting middle name. But. But, you know. Yeah. Played by Willie Nelson. Yeah. And looking good, Willie Nelson, you know, 46, five years ago. Whatever. Looking good, Right. Ponytail. Rocking it. But he's in there, and this is clearly, like, something very important to Frank we don't give the whole detail to. A little later, he tells us about Oklahoma being a mentor, teaching him everything he knows about thievery and stealing and whatever. But he tells Frank, I've got angina, which I think is like a heart condition. Right. And he's got maybe weeks to live, and he really doesn't want to die in prison. So, like, get me out. I'm not sure. I guess the getting him out part we do find out later. I guess they do it through the. Like, through the lawyers or whatever. But it's like, at first, I'm kind of like, is he expecting Frank to be able to, like, bust him out of jail? Like, what is this?

Nic

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would be, like, blow the side off the prison and have him walk through the hole or something. Yeah. But there's this scene was also kind of weird, and I don't know if it was just, I don't know the way Willie Nelson is. My wife was watching this part of it. She made a comment that Willie Nelson looks like he's on lsd. Like, his eyes were, like, shifting, but I don't know if that was trying to show his desperation because he was just kind of doing that. How's life been lately? Conversation. Right, Frank. But also his eyes looked very, like, scared and desperate. So I don't know if he was just like. I need to tell you, like, had that look of like, dude, get me out of here.

Steve

I will say this. I'll say a Willie Nelson was 100%, absolutely, for sure, without a shadow of a doubt, high. He was high on pot shooting this. There's no way he was. And he's Willie Nelson, but also, like, Willie Nelson's fantastic singer, fantastic songwriter, don't get me wrong. But he's not a particularly gifted actor. Like, when he's been in stuff, he's basically played himself or, like, done whatever, you know. So I think if you're noticing stuff like that, the chances that they were, like, a really conscious acting choice by Nelson are probably fairly low. It probably just has to do with, like, that's how it came to him, to, like, feel nervous.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

He shows you're nervous, you know, and that's kind of the best he could, you know, I don't know that it was any deeper than that. Not trying to denigrate the guy. He did just fine in this role. But, you know, Nelson is not well known as an actor, obviously.

Nic

Right, right.

Steve

But, yeah, but he definitely is desperate, and he. He. He really doesn't want to die in prison. And I don't. I don't blame him, you know, I mean, that sounds like a pretty awful thing. Awful place to be for your last days.

Nic

Yeah. And Frank, you know, pretty much agrees, like, all right, I'll get you out of here. You know, like, he's kind of determined to do it. This is one of the few people that he cares about in the world.

Steve

That's a good point. It really. We don't get much indication that he has a lot of people right with him for him. Whatever that. Yeah. So.

Nic

So now Frank is supposed to pick up the cash now. So he had made the agreement with this guy at the plating company. Like, the guy who's going to pay me is going to meet me at this place in three hours.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And he goes, and it's a classic, like, loading dock location, because that's where you meet to exchange contraband and money.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And. And then we see that there's some cops on stake out there.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Who are doing, like, the laziest job. Like, they have the worst position. So, Barry, Jim Belushi is kind of watching Frank's back during all this. He has a sniper right there. He's on a roof nearby. He's a great vantage point. Right? And then these cops are, like, so fucking far away.

Steve

Like, two bridges down the river, like, super far.

Nic

And they're, you know, looking through binoculars and eating sandwiches, and shit's falling out of their sandwiches onto the floor. One thing that they say, though, when they see the cache, they're like, there's got to be two inches of money out there.

Steve

Two inches.

Nic

And I love inches of money. That's. That's.

Steve

Americans will do anything to not use the metric system. Yeah, yeah. But basically, I love it when we. So we first see these. These characters standing there, and one of them, I believe, is Dennis Farina, like one of the. One of the. The homies, one of the. One of the, like, henchmen or whatever of the main kind of big boss guy.

Nic

This is early Farina. He almost says nothing in this, really.

Steve

He may not have lines. He has a great death in the end, but, like, he doesn't. I don't think he does many lines, but Leo, played by Robert Prosky, is the sort of mob boss, basically. He's like the head guy of this. Of this criminal organization. And then the person that Frank threatened in his office is there, and it's like, I'm telling you, this guy's bad news. You just kill him now. Whatever. And Leo's basically like that, stop it. That's dumb. Like, I'm not gonna. This guy stole, you know, almost a million dollars worth of diamonds. Like, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? It's like. It's funny to me when the. The boss's attitude of I don't pay you to think actually, like, makes a lot of sense. Like, yeah, don't let that guy think. That guy cannot make decisions. He's clearly, like, just going off adrenaline. Like, this guy busted into my office, and da, da, da, da, da. So. So Frank shows up. The. You know, the money gets, changes hands, no problem. Leo says, didn't know, you know, whose it was. Now we know it's yours. You go. But there's a lot more of that came from if you're willing to work for me. Yeah. You know, And Frank's very, very resistant at first. He's like, no. Like, I don't. I don't. I work for myself. I don't have a boss. I don't give anybody a cut. Like, this is all me, like a one partner, like, or two partners, whatever. He's like, no, I don't do that. And Leo's basically like, look, just think about it, you know, two, three jobs tops. They're all set up for you. Like we're doing all the legwork. It's going to be easy. You just got to execute. Just trust me, like, I take care of my people basically. Right. And you know, initially Leo seems like for a criminal, for a crime boss, pretty on the up and up kind of guy.

Nic

You know, it's a good, honest, seeming, low pressure pitch from a guy who has every incentive to be lying.

Steve

Every sort of lying and every ability to apply pressure. Yes, if he wanted to just apply pressure, he could totally. Right?

Nic

Yeah. So, so it's, you know, definitely a fault of Frank where he's always kind of in search of this like father figure type, right? Between Okta and like, you know, we find out later he was raised in the foster system. He didn't have any contact with his actual parents. So yeah, that's like a weakness that he has. So Leo might have even identified that here. But at the very least he knows like, all right, this is one of the better guys at helping me get some more money. I can use him for a while.

Steve

I also get the feeling that if, you know, Leo's clearly been doing this a while, he's probably dealt with a lot of people like Frank over the years and the idea that many of them have sort of daddy issues in some sense, it's probably very common.

Nic

Oh, totally.

Steve

You know, so I think him, him playing that role has probably helped him in the past.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Work with these people.

Nic

And so Frank is, is telling him, okay, like, I'll work for you. You know, I only want to do one or two months because he's looking to retire, he's looking to get out of here. One of the big conversations that he had with Oakton jail is, I'm in love with this woman. She doesn't know what I do for money. She doesn't know what I really do. What should I tell her? And Oak does just like, you know, lying gets you nowhere. You have to tell her the truth.

Steve

Actually, it's even better than that. It's even better line that. And I'm going to paraphrase, but it is like, like if you care about them, then lying to them just hurts them and hurts you, so don't do it. And if you don't care about them, then who the fuck are they that you need to lie? To them.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And I love that framing. Like, you know, it's like, hey, the people in your life who matter, don't lie to them. Be honest with them. And the people who don't matter, they don't deserve to be fucking lied to. Like, you don't have to make up shit for those assholes. Fuck them. Like, that's awesome.

Nic

Yeah, that is a great philosophy. That is a great philosophy. So, you know, he wants to do a couple jobs and get out of there. He clarifies to Leo. Frank does. I only steal diamonds or cash, which I love. No other jewelry, no treasury, no bear bonds. Why wouldn't you steal a stack of whatever you've room in the duffel bag, dude? But I like that he has his own code that he applied. So it makes it fun, feel like in his own mind that I'm not really like a criminal, I am a specialist that exists in the world of criminals or something That's. Yeah, there's something that he thinks about what he does that differentiates himself from, you know, the other street criminals.

Steve

That or it's. Yes. And it's also kind of an indicator to us that Frank is not hot blooded, he's not willful and kind of just doing whatever. He's incredibly calculating and careful and has discovered, hey, when diamonds are stored in a safe, there are certain things I know about the size of the thing I'm stealing, about how much of it is. I know the kinds of connection, the kinds of protection that people put on diamonds versus on other things. Like there are just fewer variables, fewer unknowns if I stick to stealing diamonds. Yeah. And so there's an element of just like I could steal other shit. I'm good at stealing stuff, I could do that. But why would I take on even a minuscule higher amount of risk if I know what the risk and reward is here? And it works for me. Yeah. And that kind of carefulness and you know, caution is, is very, very much Frank's M.O. until the very end of the well.

Nic

And that's what's kept him. That's what's kept him like you know, on the streets.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And alive is like, you know, not take taking too big of a bite. So I think here he goes to the bar where he's supposed to meet Jesse.

Steve

Correct.

Nic

And we haven't been introduced to Jesse yet. She's just been kind of mentioned or we might.

Steve

Well, we saw one thing. She was a waitress at the diner that he was at or something. He said hello as he left. Like it wasn't much.

Nic

Yeah, that's right. That's right. So there's some good ass grooves playing. There's a band there and everything. And we get. Again, we were talking about this in a previous episode about the reluctance to cut off a song mid song in any of these movies. You know, like the Rocky 4 syndrome, where this was like a full two and a half minutes of the band playing guitar and everything. But Frank gets to the bar. Jesse is pissed off. She's all dressed up, waiting for her date. She's like, what are you doing here? You're two hours late.

Steve

Crazy.

Nic

And then he. He's a piece of shit.

Steve

He's a complete asshole.

Nic

He is already. I don't know. You're not really sympathetic towards him. Quite right. Even to this point.

Steve

We just know he's a criminal, right? He might be good at what he does.

Nic

Just kind of like, okay, here's a criminal with no family. The best purpose he serves is moving contraband from one set of bad guys to another set of.

Steve

And his cover identity is a used car salesman. So this guy, Right, that's true.

Nic

Yeah. So he's, he's at best Bill Paxton from True Lies, right?

Steve

Best.

Nic

So. But then he's very awful to Jesse here. He's very rough with her, pulling her out of the bar, practically kidnaps her, dude. It's terrible. And then, you know, anyone who steps to him, he's, oh, you got a problem. Like doing this James Khan stuff, which is effective. So I don't like him. But it's interesting, you know, this whole part. So he's driving. He's driving with her now and kind of confessing, like what he does.

Steve

Yeah, he's being honest, like oakless told him he should be like. Yeah.

Nic

And she's like, at first, you know, kind of like, what the fuck? But he's going through like, oh, you really think of a car dealership. And he runs down the retail price of everything that he's wearing. Which I really enjoy, you know, always. I got $150 slacks. I wear $800 suits. I got a three diamond. Whatever diamond terminology.

Steve

Three carat, very clear, no inclusions, flawless. Motherfucker. I don't know what he says, but it's a bunch of like, really legit diamond talk. But, you know, let's, let's, let's not give him too much credit here. It's on a pinky ring.

Nic

Is there a bigger waist? Yeah. Oh, my God. So, you know, he takes her to the diner and they're kind of Sitting. Continuing the conversation.

Steve

And it's kind of a long conversation.

Nic

It is, yeah.

Steve

It goes on for seven, eight minutes. I didn't actually mark it, but it seemed like a very long conversation. I gotta be. Some of it is like the dumbest. Wooing. Like he tries to like convince her that her life is shit so she should want to be with him. Sort of like, what's, what's so great about your life, what you got going on? You were gonna fucking dine her. Like, I got this, I got this. And it's like, yeah, you might not be wrong. This is like he's soap checking very much. He's not wrong. He's just an asshole. Like, it's very much like, you know, and so I don't see why it works, but it does. At one point he pulls out his mood board or vision board or whatever his like, because he's been reading the Secret. So clearly he's got, you know, I.

Nic

Love the mini vision board that he has folded up.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So crazy. Really good. And when, when he pulls out earlier in the movie, he has a gigantic wallet.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

Just jammed full of every credit card.

Steve

It looks like Louis from Trading Places.

Nic

And I really think that we should add either gigantic wallet or big 80s wallet, big ass wallet, whatever it is, as a new tag.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

Maybe because I enjoy seeing in these movies.

Steve

We'll have to look back and see how many more besides those two because I'm sure there's more.

Nic

But his little. Yeah, his eight and a half by 11 folded up vision board that he made in jail that shows up a couple times. I really love that. And she's like, oh, that's cool. That's actually not laying. That's awesome.

Steve

Also, what are we like physically, what are we looking at? Because she asks him like, would you cut these out of magazines? Whatever. And it's like he says, yeah, but you know we did collage work in, in school, right? You glue or glue stick or paste or do whatever paper on paper. It had a look and feel and things would, would peel up. This looked like he did that then to like whatever was Kinko's in 1981 and got a full color copy of it made on like thicker card stock. Like what. How do you. How does he have this thing? This, this shouldn't exist in this world, this vision board.

Nic

Yeah, it's very strange. It's very strange. And visually. Yeah. Very unclear as to what's going on until he's kind of explaining.

Steve

I also want to say real quick, this is where I put the note down for myself because this is the first time I really noticed. I. I have not watched a ton of early James Kahn stuff, like obviously the Godfather, but like, not a lot of his, you know, kind of 70s and early 80s work. You know, I think of him more, a little more as we get into the 90s and he's playing that more middle aged and older, you know, characters. But I just did a full rewatch the whole series of the show, Entourage, and Scott Kahn is in, you know, three seasons of that as a manager and agent or whatever. And it was when I realized, like, watching him there when he was in his late 20s and here James Kahn's probably in his mid to late 30s, and boy, does the apple did not far fall far from the tree. Like, Scott looked and talks and acts so much like his father. But I never really noticed because if I. Because I'm thinking of like, you know, I'm in my head, have compared James Khan in Elf to Scott Khan and Varsity Blues.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And the ages are so separate that it's like you can't make a connection. But now, like Scott Khan and Entourage, James Con in this, they're much closer. You go, oh, look at like there are so many little facets of. Of mannerism and stuff that are the same. Which is maybe why Scott doesn't get a lot of work lately. He's not really.

Nic

Because it almost seems like an impression.

Steve

Yeah, totally interesting. But I thought it was really the one of the first times I watched James Con and saw so much of his adult son in him.

Nic

Yeah, that's a good point. Is now that we've have an opportunity to see the next generation grow up a little bit, we're really seeing like the resemblance to the. To the parents. So Frank and Jesse are having this conversation at the diner and he's kind of running through. It's funny, you know, he's like, I'm a thief. I've been to prison. And she's just like, where were you in prison? Could you pass the cream? Like, being very casual as they're having this conversation. But he. What he explains is that when he was 18 or something, he went to jail for stealing $40. He was sentenced to two years in jail, and he ended up getting an additional, like nine years because he had manslaughter charge for like one or two other prisoners.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And he tells you this terrible story about how at this place, like there was this, you know, leader of the bad guys or whatever. They was a guard. I was one of the Guards. Right. And they would take the prisoners for this, you know, game thing, basically. This. The worst stuff that you hear about happens to people in prison. You know, beat them up, take advantage of them, whatever. And he found out he was next. So what he did is, you know, found a way to lash out at this. He ended up killing one of the guys and got to stay late. But what he found out is that he got a lot of respect in prison. Nobody touched him after that because he demonstrated that I don't care if I live or die.

Steve

Right.

Nic

I have nothing that's tying me to this world, so you really can't damage me.

Steve

I'll stay here as long as I have to if it means protecting myself, whatever. Yeah. Because I'm sure, yeah. Killing a guard, you're not. You're not going to get just a small. I mean, look, I know that killing inmates gets you additional sentence as well. I feel like killing a guard's gonna hit you even more. Oh, for sure. You know, so he. Yeah, the fact that he was even out nine years later is a little surprising. But. Yeah, so that's. So basically. But he wins her over in this conversation. I mean, he really, you know, it's like, hey, like, be in this life with me. Right. And be this vision board. I mean, she tells him she can't have children. Yeah. And because he's got kids on the vision board, and he's like, oh, it's definitely what I want, you know? And he said, but. But immediately, I mean, look, to his credit, I mean, he's like, so we'll adopt. Like, finds out later, hey, being a felon makes that quite a bit harder than you might think it is. But, you know, the idea that he's immediately willing to, like, slight, even slightly adjust his perfect future in order to incorporate her in it is, like, pretty cool. Like, that's. Honestly, that's. That's, like, pretty cool. But I'm still a little surprised if.

Nic

He was, like, just so into her specifically.

Steve

Right.

Nic

That he would adjust or. You know, sometimes you get that point in a long process where something changes at the end, but you're just like, it, whatever. Like, you're sitting there all day trying to buy a car or something, and then at the very end, they're like, oh, we actually have gray seats, not black seats. And you're just like, fucking, I don't care. I'll just take the gray seats. So, yeah, but that was good that it showed that he was into her. He wasn't holding that over her head.

Steve

Right.

Nic

He didn't let her feel bad about that for a sec.

Steve

That's true. That's kind of the point, I think, is not. Wasn't even like, oh, well, that really sucks. Well, I guess it'd be okay if we. It's like, he's like, no, fuck it, we'll adopt, like, whatever, you know. And he was very quick and I think does show at least a little bit that, you know, he really does like her and he's not just looking for a wife or something. Like he wants her.

Nic

And we find out later, you know, why he doesn't see any inherent fault in an adopted child.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Because he's adopted himself and stuff.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

So, yeah. So, you know, they're having this conversation and now he's back with Leo, you know, and they're scoping out the heist.

Steve

The next heist, which is the first time of many times in this movie that I got very confused about the geography.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So they are in Los Angeles. While doing this, they have flown from Chicago to Los Angeles without telling us anything about them moving. It's the bank of California. They are on a rooftop in Los Angeles casing a bank in Los Angeles that they're going to rob. And I don't think the movie does a good enough job of telling us that. But a few times later they talk about the LA job. They clearly go out to LA to do the job and then are on the beach. Barry and Frank and their partners.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Whatever it is, he talks about being in San Diego for like all this stuff. Yeah, they're in LA or San Diego. I actually don't know if it's LA or San Diego, but they're in California, they're in Southern California to do this job. And they don't make a. The movie does not do a good job of telling us that, dude.

Nic

Okay, I watched it twice in the last week. I did not pick up on that. Michael Mann, if you're listening. I know that you're listening, but Michael Mann, little tip. You have to show a map of the United States with a little plane that goes from one place to another. We have no idea what's happening.

Steve

A movie the same year that showed us that. Michael, come on. All you need to do is talk.

Nic

To show us the Hollywood sign or the man Chinese theater. Some kind of LA land.

Steve

Palm tree. Yeah, just one palm tree. Those are clearly not in Chicago. Right.

Nic

Like, it's in the little Chicago neighborhood of la, so there's no way to tell. Yeah, that's really funny. So they're scoping out this. This bank from a roof, you know, and they're having a conversation about what the deal's going to be.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And, you know, Leo's like, look, you have a price. I'll tell you what the price is before it starts. That's how he had explained it to him before. And he says, you know, there's $4 million worth of diamonds in there, so a perfect amount for you to get paid. Of course, $830,000.

Steve

Basically 20%.

Nic

I really love that this movie has the discipline to not use, like, super, even dollar amounts.

Steve

That's true.

Nic

Earlier we had 185,000. Now we have 830,000. He probably had exactly like 15 grand in expenses or whatever. So that we. So, yeah, I really like that. And they're talking about, you know, this is a lock that has four, has five stages, and we understand how to get through the first four, but we have to figure out the fifth. And he needs a whole lot of, like, custom equipment.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And then we get Frank going to visit his, like, is it M and James Bond? Why do I use this.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

Guy who just makes, like, specific welding equipment for busting into safes.

Steve

Yeah. And it's very interesting sort of chat with this. I can't remember the character's name actually, but yeah, the. The guy who. Who has to basically build him a special tool. Yeah. A unique special tool. Because what. So the key with the thing is, like, there are five alarms in the building. Four of them are tied to the phone line, so they're easy to bypass. They've done that before. The fifth one is not. They have to. And Leo tells Barry and Frank. I don't even know what it is. You have to figure that out.

Nic

Right.

Steve

That's part of your job.

Nic

Well, like earlier you were saying, the. The real skill of being a safecracker is knowing where to drill into the safe. And the problem with this one is that they're all made different. So there's no real, like, schematic that tells you where to drill it.

Steve

He says, 100% custom. There's no way to know, so they're going to need to do something else. And what he ends up talking to his, you know, equipment building buddy about is like, I don't want to try to crack it. I don't want to try to drill into it. I want to burn it. I want to cut myself a brand new door. Yeah. That's what I want to do. And it's like, that will take a hell of a lot of Firepower. Right. I mean, you're going to have to, you know, carry something with you that's somewhat portable. You have to get it into the building that will actually generate, I think he said, something like 7,000 degrees, ridiculously high temperature in order to actually cut through steel that thick. So. But that is the task that he sets upon his friend. Right.

Nic

And this guy. This scene is kind of funny because the guy's taking him through this, you know, the metal shop or what he. Foundry. Is that what that's called?

Steve

Whatever it is.

Nic

But this guy's. And there's a guy in a white lab coat, so it's kind of like a who's the suit? Type situation. And Frank asks him, like, what's up with this guy? And the guy's like, oh, this is a metallurgist that they hired here. He's like, I could. I could take one lick and tell you that something's 48% copper, 38% nickel, 8%, whatever. And it reminds me of Yukon Cornelius from the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer claymation thing, how he sticks out his pickaxe in the ground and then licks it to see if there's gold. So I love that. I love that he goes by instinct to tell you the composition of different metals.

Steve

Yeah, that's very cool. So, yeah. So he agrees to build this tool for Frank. And I believe the next scene we get to is in a courtroom. Y and we've got a judge and a lawyer. And the lawyer is talking. And Frank comes in and sits down. And the judge is. Excuse me, the lawyer is talking about oka. And you know that he has this. He's terminally ill. He's old. He served most of his sentence. He should be released so that he can, like, die in peace, basically, outside of prison, because that's all it's going to happen. He's no longer a threat to anyone. All this stuff.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

And at first I'm like, why are the judge and lawyer, like, touching their faces?

Nic

Yes.

Steve

How weird is that? And I didn't get it until like, the third time. Like, the back and forth went a few times.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And the numb. And then there were more fingers on the hands. I go, oh, they're signaling a bribe. Okay, good to know. And sure enough, that's. The lawyer tells. He's got six fingers on his face at the end. And he tells Frank, lawyers or the judge is going to need six grand to get him out of there. Yeah, he'll be out this week or something like that.

Nic

Like, definitely something that was more subtle. And I, the second time I watched it I was like, oh, okay, that's.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nic

So yeah. And he's obviously had some help now from Leo. So this thing that's very important to him, this favor now has been facilitated by Leo. Leo's not putting up the six grand. But Leo made that situation possible for.

Steve

Right, yeah.

Nic

So I, and, and he also has a house now.

Steve

Oh, that's right.

Nic

Leo has hooked Frank up with this beautiful house. So now he's got a place for Jesse and him and their future family to, to be. He has a little get together at his house. Belushi shows up in this sick white Corvette.

Steve

Yeah, it really is awesome.

Nic

I love this like late 70s Corvette. And it fits the Belushi character. Not even the character so much as what I'd imagine real life Jim Belushi to be like during his car. Yeah, he was like, oh, I got a car. Yeah, don't give me this Escort here. I got it.

Steve

I'm not going to drive a Gremlin. I got a van I could bring.

Nic

I got to say, disrespectful for him to buy a General Motors vehicle when his friend owned a Ford Lincoln Mercury dealership.

Steve

Right. His friend doesn't.

Nic

Could have got a Mustang.

Steve

His friend doesn't care. Yeah. It's a front for his diamond stealing business. Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah. So they go and that's one of the times they talk about la. And this is when Barry tells Frankie fans found out the deal with the alarm, I believe the fifth alarm. Isn't that here? Yeah, so. So he basically tells them they got to walk like it's this thing, it's over radio. It doesn't work over the phone lines. It goes off every morning when they show up, they have 10 seconds to put a, to speak a code word into the, the walkie talkie that goes straight to the ARM company and that gets it shut off. So we just have to listen for the code word like the week before we do it because they could change it often. So if they find it out a day or two before, you know nobody's going to change that code word every day. That would be, don't kind of defeat the purpose. So, so that's the plan. So they at least now have their plan of attack for that fifth alarm and that's sort of. And then they got the guy building the torch or whatever they're going to need. So like the wheels are all in motion to get this, this heist done.

Nic

Definitely. And yeah, so they're going. And I do. I mean, the extended time frame of this movie I do like, because it allows these things to develop realistically, you know, so it's not like this all happens in a week or four days.

Steve

I get, I agree with you. And, and there are enough indications that time is passing and everything, but it isn't super clear how much I think it hard to track. Like, is it weeks later, is it months? Like, how much time is passing for this? It can be a little hard to tell, I think.

Nic

Yeah. And I think that when they were on the roof kind of casing, the job might have said that it would take like four to eight weeks.

Steve

It sounds right.

Nic

To figure this stuff out. Right. So Frank and Jesse are now sitting down speaking to a woman that we find out is the adoption agency. And she's going through the application, you know, like, well, you know, you have a prison listed as your employer from this year.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And she's asking, what did you do? He's like, I spot welded desks. It's like, what? Okay, what did you do after that? I got moved to shoes. Right. And you know, we find out that we knew this and he was a prisoner, but he tells the lady, and obviously that's going to disqualify them from adoption.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And you know, he's kind of losing his mind a little bit and he's suggesting like, well, there are kids. That he's like, there are more parents than there are kids is what they're told.

Steve

Right, right, right.

Nic

And he's like, well, that sounds like your problem. This place should be empty now. You know, these parents are looking for kids. And then he says some, you know, definitely undesirable things, racial comments, but basically like, give me your least desirable kid.

Steve

You say, nobody wants older kids. Give us a six year old. You say, you know, does nobody want. I'm not gonna use the words he uses, but Asian or black or Latino kids, give us one of those. Like, we're not picky. We want to raise children. Which, I'll be honest with you, feels a little red flaggish. Sort of like, just give us a.

Nic

Kid, give us some care.

Steve

It's like, oh, dude, all right, slow down, Jesus.

Nic

Like, totally.

Steve

But they are pretty roundly denied. And it's made clear that like, that's not an avenue that's open to them is traditional adoption.

Nic

Right. And he starts to have, you know, a meltdown. And at this point you kind of feel like this could become really over the top and violent. But I think the direction that he takes it, where he kind of. It goes from, like. It goes from, like, anger to pain, you know, as he's talking about, like, I was state raised. Like, you know, I know what it's like in these walls. And the way that he's describing the place, it really does seem like part of what he wants is, yeah, I want the family with the kid, but also I have the opportunity and the means to rescue somebody from this situation that I was raised in.

Steve

Right.

Nic

So he's kind of, like, defeated. He's finding out, like, there's not really a path to redemption for him for somebody with his background, you know, to have a normal life and everything. So it's like a subdued meltdown he's not throwing around and they're let out of there, but he is really, like, defeated after this.

Steve

Yeah. So, yeah, so that. That kind of ends and we move on. And the next thing is basically, he gets. He gets pulled over, but not with a siren or with an alarm or anything like that. Just the car, like, honks at him and he pulls over, which I'm like, why would anyone do this? Yeah, it's the cops that we saw staking out the. The money transfer from Leo.

Nic

Right.

Steve

So they clearly know what's going on. They know who at least who Frank works with, you know, kind of person. Frank is all this stuff. And so they get out, they basically hustle them, and they say, like, you know, hey, whatever you're doing, we get 10% or we hassle you. That's essentially it. Right.

Nic

Who is. Who is auditing this, by the way? Like, the world of underworld percentages always fascinates me. You know, it's like 10% of gross. 10% of, you know, after my expenses.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Do I get something for my time before I figure you're cut in? Like, there's no checks and balances. No, just. You have to know what that means.

Steve

But 10% or any person is always off the top. Yeah. Anybody claiming it is like, no, it's my cut first. Right. And if you've got somebody else you're giving a cut to first, fine, I'm just getting it before your cut, you know, kind of thing. And then, yeah, the actual amounts, it's like, that's probably pretty. The dangerous part of that is that if they think, well, you should have gotten 400 grand for this. You only got 180. I don't care. Give me the 40 grand I think I'm owed. Like, yes, that.

Nic

So you're entering like you're Opening the door for them to have a lot of control over what you do.

Steve

And one of the cops that is bothering him. I don't understand his necktie. He appears to have stopped halfway through tying his tie. Where, like, before you do the tie, you know, you. You pull the. The large, you know, the wide piece underneath, and then you tuck it into the knot and tighten it. Like that's sort of the way. Yeah, he just let it flop over. So there's not. It's like. It's like sort of tight on his neck and then it just flops over like there's no knot.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Was this a style? Like, I obviously have no idea what menswear style was like in 1981. I was. I was wearing diapers, so I don't know.

Nic

But like, it's like an angsty teen who has to attend a first communion. And he's like, mom, I'm technically wearing a tie. That's what it looks like, you said.

Steve

Except this is Sergeant so and so or whatever, you know, I mean, it's like, holy crap. But yeah, very strange tie. But basically they.

Nic

Sergeant Eurezi, it's a good one.

Steve

But he basically tells him he doesn't know the fuck they're talking about, they should fuck off. Like, he doesn't buy into their shit. And he drives off, basically.

Nic

And when he gets home, he immediately takes apart the phone.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

He gets back to the house and he sees the phone is bugged and stuff. And again, it doesn't set off quite the proper alarms with him, I don't think. I mean, he's making the connection that. Because I'm involved with Leo.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Now the cops are on to me. Instead of making the connection that this Leo provided house.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Comes pre bugged because he needs, like, he has control over, you know.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

So, you know, the heat's on him and he goes and tells the boss. So in my opinion, this was set up by Leo to add an extra element because Leo and the cops, they're all kind of in league together.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I mean, the cops have to probably kick up to Leo of part of their 10% potentially.

Steve

Right. And. And I think. Or that. Or they pay him by ignoring him basically. Right. You know, and potentially providing some protection. And yeah, we, we, we get. You know, later in the movie, Leo and Frank are at odds with each other. And Leo basically complains that when Frank was, you know, was. Was hit up by the cops for a cut, that he didn't just do it like everybody else does. He. He had to fight it like, what are you doing? And it's like, if Leo weren't in bed with those cops, he probably would have been proud of Frank for being the fuck off. But they're together, so. Yeah, but. Yeah, but he talks to Leo and tells him about the problems that they had with trying to adopt and they really want to have a kid and all this stuff. And Leo's basically like, you want a kid, I get you a kid, no problem. How do you do that? I know women who don't want their kids, and I'm paying them to have their kids. And, like. And it's like, holy. She's got this whole human baby marketplace thing going on. Leo does. He even says, you want a boy, you want a girl? Like, let me know and I'll get it for you. Like, oh, my God. Yeah.

Nic

He says, like, name the make.

Steve

Name the make.

Nic

Right? Crazy, right? And again, red flag, red flag, red flag. When somebody tells you about the ethical sourcing of their child trafficking, do not believe them. You know, it's like, these are farm to table kids. So we're getting back quickly now to Oklahoma, so Frank should be excited because he's. Oh. And when Leo is kind of making the pitch to Frank, you know, he's having this conversation. He's learning about, like, he's learning about Frank's weaknesses here, and he's making the pitch to him about like, I can get you a kit. The way that he's lit in that scene, the way that his face looks. I mean, it's definitely like a deal with the devil type look it really cool.

Steve

Faustian.

Nic

Yeah, exactly. And so now we're back. We're back to see Oklahoma, who's been released from prison, but he's in the hospital because of his. His condition and everything. He wasn't in good shape.

Steve

Nope.

Nic

And, yeah, so we're at the hospital there. Oklahoma is in his bed, and he's alive. He opens his eyes but pretty much immediately dies. This was an interesting choice because I thought that all the effort to get Oklahoma out, that he would be involved in the final heist.

Steve

Oh, interesting.

Nic

Maybe he'd die during that. Like, that's what traditionally I would expect is bring the mentor back for one last job. He coughs into a napkin, he sees blood on it, you know, whatever, but.

Steve

Ignore it, move on. Yeah, yeah. Very Sopranos. Right? You know, the old hitman does one last hit or whatever. Yeah, but. But no Oka passes here. And. And Frank is broken up, obviously, but, you know, pretty quickly cheered up by the fact that they get their kid.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

They go and pick up a kid from ostensibly the birth mother, I guess who they pick it up from. It's kind of hard to tell.

Nic

They pick up a kid with like the least amount of accessory. It's almost like bringing home a goldfish from the fair where it's just in a plastic bag full of water. Like there's no bowl, there's no rocks, there's no food. Or it's just like here's your loose baby.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

In a blanket. I trust that you have all the accoutrement.

Steve

Well, that's what I was. Immediately made me think of raising Arizona where they get the baby back. And it's like, do they have diapers? Do they have formula? Do they have. What do they have? Yeah, I think maybe we'll need to find another. Add another tag the website of like, you know, non traditional baby acquiring, you know like baby acquisition by non traditional means. At least these two movies.

Nic

Yeah, it is funny. Like the difference between like the. The duo who's getting the baby illegally versus in these two movies. One thing real quick. When Oklahoma passed away, the doctor comes out and he's telling Frank and everything. Like he's gone. The doctor's a black and there's definitely tension. He doesn't say anything but like the way that Frank kind of gives this distrustful look. Because we know that Frank is like a deep down racist guy. He's a 40 year old man in 1981, a white guy who went to jail and all that stuff. You know, this motherfucker's racist. And the doctor knows that people do not trust his professionalism as a doctor because he's black. And there's this kind of like staring exchange between the two of them.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

That I thought was pretty interesting.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. And it doesn't end up coming to anything but yeah, there's like a tension there that's part of that. Although I do think the doctor also had some pretty stupid things to say. Like, let me know if there's anything I can do, dude.

Nic

Right. He was like, hey, I'm sorry your friend's dead. And then he's like, are you okay? Do you want to sit down? I was like, give me a couple beats.

Steve

Right?

Nic

Like, I don't need your ass in my face. I don't know you.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Okay. So they have their baby.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And they're celebrating at a classic Chinese.

Steve

Chinese restaurant. Yeah, yeah. Very nice. Not the waiter asks them, you know, it's a good looking baby. What's your baby's name. And she said, no name yet. Which is like funny because that is clearly like a nine month old baby. It's like not a name.

Nic

That's a lot of things.

Steve

But they, but they, they say no name yet. And then the waiter walks away and they're chatting a bit and you know, I immediately thought to myself like, oh my God, they're gonna name this fucking baby Oklah. I know it. They're gonna name him Oklahoma. And so Frank says something about like, you know, you know, locally dies and now we got this baby like she goes, you want to name him after Oklahola? And I'm like, holy. They're actually gonna name this baby Oakland? He goes, well, Oklahoma's real name was Davey. So how about David? It's like, oh, okay. So they gave the kid a real name. That's nice. Yeah, Oklahoma. I'm assuming he was from Oklahoma and that's his nickname is what I'm guessing. But like, but yeah, David is, is a obviously very fine name. So. But then the waiter comes back and it's like, okay, our baby's name is David. It's like, wait a minute, this is like a kid who's many months old. You haven't chosen name yet. The first second a waiter asks you, what's the kid's name? That's how we really should come up with something. We should probably name this kid, right? So weird, so weird.

Nic

Not only that.

Steve

Welcome home, son. Like, you know.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. He like snaps and gestures the waiter over to tell him the name. Hey, my kid's name is David. And then the west, the waiter, who's the most casual guy, he has pick in his mouth, but he's just like, like David. It's a good name, good name. And then they're like, cool. Mission accomplished here. The look of this movie, this is like a very blue movie, you know, with little pops of like bright yellow, bright red in brake lights and stuff like that. But I. The look of it is very cool and it's very consistent, especially as we kind of get into this part of the film.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

Frank receives a phone call at a bar, which I love the pre cell phone era. I think we should get rid of all of our smartphones and everyone just pick a bar and that's where you're reaching. Reachable.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

And let's see this.

Steve

Barry found out the code. Basically.

Nic

Barry found out the code, right? So he's like trying to eavesdrop on this guy and they find out that the code is Mexico. That's like, good. We have the last thing that we need. Let's roll.

Steve

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So before they can get out of town and get to their actual, like, heist, Frank gets picked up by the cops. Roughed up a hell of a lot, but still is not giving in, is not. Not gonna, you know, give them anything. Yeah. Even after getting slammed in the head with a phone book, for Christ's sake. But, yeah, this is. This was actually the scene where I noticed Sergeant Urizzi's tie was completely unhinged and psychotic.

Nic

But, you know, and they're roughing him up. I mean, again, restraint. Just like earlier, he had restraint. Not freaking out in the adoption agency. The cops are, like, roughing him up, but they're doing it to code, you know, they're not doing anything technically that would get them in trouble.

Steve

And they want. They don't want to hurt. Hurt him because they want him to.

Nic

Do this job, source of money for them.

Steve

Right. To get their kickback. So if they actually, like, break his arms or something, well, now he can't do the job. Now you can't get paid. So. So there is that element of, like, we want to scare you and we want to rough you up, but we also need you, you know, in fighting, you know, form whatever.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And so that he leaves the cop station.

Nic

And this is the closest to, like, a zinger that we have in this movie here. Right. So you're Rizzi. The. All the cops are kind of surrounding him, and they're doing different techniques. One guy's like, hey, it's not that bad. We can hang around. There's things we can do to, like, round the corners on this or whatever. He says, and you're. Rizzi basically gets in his face. He's like, I'm Sergeant. You're Rizzi. You remember my name? And he says, oh, I didn't know they hired Puerto Ricans. And. And the guy's like, I'm not Puerto Rican. I'm Italian. And then Frank says. Says, nice to meet you, you ugly wap. Son of a. And, you know, that really throws him off.

Steve

So, yeah, he's. He's a character, that's for sure.

Nic

But the cops are on his ass. They have tracking devices and everything. They have tracking devices that are meant to be discovered. And then the real one and all this stuff.

Steve

Yeah. And so Frank is smart enough to take the real tracking device, the one that. That they're actually using to track him, and he sticks it on a Greyhound bus headed for Des Moines, Iowa. So the cops are Going to be chasing a ghost for a while.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Which is so funny because I thought to myself at first, well, yeah, that gets him out of town for a little bit, but like, not long enough for them to do the job. Oh wait, that's right. They have to fly 2,000 miles away to go to the job. To go do the job in San Diego. I forgot. Okay. But yeah, so that, that is when the heist now begins. We get to the heist, he picks up the torch thing. This crazy long torch thing. I don't even know how it works, but you light it with like an arc welder, like a blowtorch is how you light the end of it. And then I guess, yeah, 7,000 degrees worth of whatever the hell it is.

Nic

Yeah, this thing's crazy and I, I like that it's so unwieldy. It's not like a cool looking handheld thing. It is more realistic that. Yeah. This job of busting into safes kind of really sucks because you have to deal with some, some stuff that's very difficult to deal with.

Steve

Yeah, I thought this whole safe cracking. Well, I mean we can get the whole heist starts before the safe cracking. But like, you know, they're doing the phone stuff up on the roof. Roof. Using the elevator shaft to kind of get inside. They call in the code. I mean all, everything kind of goes perfectly. Like nothing really screws up in the, in the entering the building. Yeah. And I really thought that the whole sequence of the safe cracking was very cool. This, this was probably the coolest sequence. The, the sparks and the lighting, the, the way that it showed the steel melting away and stuff. Really just very, very cool, the whole thing. It's another scene that kind of takes a while. A lot of the scenes in this movie like are drawn out. It's not a fast cut, fast paced type film. It's a slow burn. So, you know, this scene in particular does last a while, but I thought it was like really interesting and it's.

Nic

Very cool looking and the shots that we get. And this is also a scene where there's no music during this. Yeah, this is just sound effects of this. There's no dialogue, there's no music. I know you must want that, but.

Steve

I love that one.

Nic

But yeah, the detail of it. And then it'll periodically show the point of view, like from the inside of the safe, what's happening, like as they start to penetrate it and stuff. But yeah, really cool. And again, I am a better safe cracker having watched this movie. There's kind of two guys running the torch. And then the third guy, whose job I love is he's just kind of like spot extinguishing with a fire extinguisher. And I love blasting off a fire, so I don't like dealing with the fire, but I love recreationally blasting a fire extinguisher off. It's really fun.

Steve

Well, it's like. It's kind of. It's like we have really neat. Yeah, he has to follow all the sparks of it. Yeah, it's very cool. It's yet another indicator of, like, the pro level of. Of them, you know, and like, the fact that, like, look, we're not gonna let the place burn down. We need to, like, do this and then get away. So let's make sure we're not, like, letting these 7,000 degree sparks just light. I mean, they're on tile floor, and it was still catching fire and they had to move.

Nic

They moved all the wooden furniture, all the stuff out of the way, and it showed them doing that. So, yeah, it was very, like, instructional at least. Like they don't just show up and it's perfectly ready for them.

Steve

That's true. I do. I will say this, though. Barry handles the alarms for the most part. He had to find out the code. He does a lot of the hooking stuff up, Finding the right setup to get them through the alarms. The mentor, I think name might have been Sal. The guy at the foundry, the metallurgy place. He built the tool to actually get them in. All Frank's got to do is show up. Yeah, like this one. I really don't feel like there was a lot of skill on Frank's part this time. Yeah, yeah. Like somebody. Leo's team did a bunch of prep work. Barry got them in through the alarms. Sal, or whatever his name is, made the tool. Frank's just got to sit up there and stand there with it, wearing gloves. It's not. It's not. He holds the tool.

Nic

He gets the. He gets the torch lit for him.

Steve

Right.

Nic

He gets his welding helmet put on for him. So, yeah, he's the princess in this whole situation.

Steve

Yes, exactly.

Nic

So. So they come out and again we have some wonderful. These are loose diamonds. These are not all envelopes. Diamonds and everything. And there's a scene of just as the music comes back in. So there's no music during this whole safe cracking. Then it comes back on as we get Frank, who grabs a chair from the pile and looks like he's taking one of the most well deserved sit downs. You've ever seen. Just kind of like sitting there and enjoying it.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So now we're back in kind of the beach in San Diego, and they're not. They don't get paid right away that he has to cool down a little bit. So they're cooling off there, spending a little time there.

Steve

And it's. It's Barry and I don't know if it's his wife or girlfriend or whatever.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And then Jesse is there with. With them as well, and they're all. They're all just enjoying the beach together.

Nic

Barry tackles his girlfriend in the ocean in a way that would easily be a personal foul penalty. Like, you do not dive at somebody's ankles.

Steve

I really. I thought this, like. I looked at it like, isn't that like a chop block? Isn't that like that be like 10 yards? Like, what's going on here?

Nic

Yeah. So they're kind of just enjoying the beach and during this whole time is like keytar solo. That's a couple minutes long. Which, you know, great for me, bad for lovely. I think the song is titled what Could Go Wrong.

Steve

Ah.

Nic

But we find out soon that, you know, things aren't always what they seem because Frank goes to pick up his payment from Leo and Leo's house. You owe me the. The Convenient cinema friendly sum of $830,000.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Here you go. And it's definitely the envelopes. A little light moment. Yes, it is less than 2 inches of money.

Steve

Right. He said something was like maybe like 100 grand here or something like that. Right. It's not even as much, I think, as the original payment that he got at the beginning of the. Of the movie. And Leo's like, yeah, I put it into that. That shopping mall in Florida I told you about. And I put it into this real estate over here. And I put it. So, you know, it's gonna work for you. I take care of my people. And. And Frank's pissed. He's like, that wasn't the deal, man. I told you one job and I'm gonna get paid in cash. And that's it. Because he had Leo. When. When Leo. About the kid, Leo mentioned, hey, like, I can put some of yours to work. He goes, I don't want it on the street. He goes, no, no, no, no, no. Legit, like in real estate and stuff. Like, so it'll, you know, pay dividends. Which is like, look, seems like a reasonably good idea, but sure, it's like that.

Nic

But you're not giving durable power of attorney to a mob boss that's the point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, you know, Frank knows, like, all right, this guy's trying to screw me over. Like, no, no deal. Like, like, look, you profited from my work. Like, I did all this stuff. You made a bunch of money from that. I'm fine with that because I made the deal. I need you to hold up your damn deal. You got 24 hours to pay me.

Steve

Right. Which doesn't really go over well with Leo. Yeah, he's a little upset by that.

Nic

He doesn't like it. And also, Frank pulls a gun on him. Leo security doesn't rough up Frank. They let him say his piece and they let him leave.

Steve

Right.

Nic

So we're going to meet at the car dealership 24 hours from now, and you're going to pay me my damn money. And then we're done forever.

Steve

Yeah. And then I think this is when Frank goes and heads back to the dealership, I think, right, to do this meet. And this is where Barry has already been kind of captured by the cops. Yizzi and the other cops that roughed Frank up have also been beaten the hell out of Barry. Yeah. And so. And they tell him. Because Frank shows up and they tell him, barry, call. You gotta call him. Call him over here because we're gonna, you know, whatever. And finally he does say something and he goes like, frank, it's a trap. Like, whatever. And they. And they. This kind of. Of fight ensues. Barry gets blown away with a shotgun, right?

Nic

Lucy chunks hitting the van. Like, he gets shot up against a white van and there's just meat hitting that van. It is gnarly.

Steve

Yeah, it's pretty bad. And. And then, you know, Frank is fighting them and Barry's dead. And then I think this is when Leo captures Frank. Is that right? Yeah.

Nic

So Frank's. They overcome Frank because Frank is still valuable to them. And he wakes up in, like, a. Just a perfect bad guy location. There's all these tanks. I don't even know what this place is, but it appears that there's various perfect places to store dead bodies where nobody's ever going to be seen.

Steve

Some kind of chemical plant or something. Yeah.

Nic

And Frank comes to you, and of course Leo and the boys are standing around him. And Leo is basically saying, like, you know, the thing that used to make you tough, that made you like, uncorruptible, is you didn't care about anything in your life.

Steve

Right?

Nic

You can't pull that tough guy shit with me anymore because you do have a life. You have a home. You Have a wife, you have a family. And I gave you all that, right? Like, if I decide to take it away from you, you're gone. Tomorrow, I turn your wife into a. I take your kid away. Like, just brutal shit, you know? And he is living in absolute hell. So with this situation, because he's just like, from now on, you do what I say, you get paid what I say, and you work until you're dead or broken down. Like, I own you. This is your life now.

Steve

Yeah. To which Frank replies, hold my beer. Yeah. Because he then goes home and he goes to Jesse, wakes her up in the middle of the night and says, you're leaving. You understand? You're leaving. And I'm thinking myself, no, she doesn't understand. She's half asleep. He says, you take the kid, you take yourself. You get the fuck out of here. Like, we're done. You're never gonna see me again. Get out. Yeah. And at first, I didn't get this. I feel like there was an element to this that took me a bit to, like, understand, like, why is he doing all this? Like, if he wins, if he defeats Leo, why's he got to do all this, this. But I think he's just thinking at the time, a, I'm not going to be able to do what I have to do if I do have things to come home to. Yeah. And B, I'm not going to probably survive this. Leo's probably got my number.

Nic

Right. Like, I can't put myself in a situation where I have to preserve my own life.

Steve

Exactly. So. So he sends Jesse and the baby away. I think it's his. His wheelman, I think, is the one. Because Barry's gone now, but his wheelman is one who drives them off. And he tells her, like, you're going to pay A, him, this much for the first month, this much for the second month, this much for the third month. By then, you should be able to be on your own. But this is, you know, like, 400 grand or something he had, right? He's like, this should take care of you for a while.

Nic

And five and a half inches of money.

Steve

And so then. And then he burns the house down. Yeah.

Nic

And it's like, you don't really know what's happening. Like, you know, he sends her off and everything. And then he comes out of the house, he drives away. Boom. The house blows up. It's great.

Steve

Crazy.

Nic

And then he pulls up to the Green Mill cocktail lunch, which I think is. It's. We're not shown this from the Outside at another point.

Steve

Don't think it's. It's the bar going to one where he's getting phone calls at.

Nic

It's his bar.

Steve

Yeah. They at one point mentioned that he owns a club. So I think the one that.

Nic

Yeah, that makes more sense. So he blows this.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

He goes to the car dealership. Every single car individually on fire.

Steve

Lighting them all on fire. Yep.

Nic

It's. It's really nice. And. And again, this happens very quick. It's funny. For as slow of a build as this movie is, between kicking his wife out and then showing up at Leo's house for revenge.

Steve

Two minutes. That's just.

Nic

Yeah, a couple minutes, you know, And.

Steve

I gotta be honest, because it was going so fast, I got a little confused by it. I thought to myself, before he arrives at Leo's, I go, is he, like, faking their deaths? What is he do you know? Is he. Is he going to meet up with her now? He kind of told her to fuck off, that they're not going to see each other. So I'm just not sure what he's doing. And is it like. Is it because Leo made a point to him? I own all these things that you were. And he's just destroying that. But that didn't quite match with him destroying all the inventory at the car dealership. That is so, you know, it took me a while to come around to, oh, he's just cutting all ties, becoming a man with nothing to lose. That's the point of all this. But. But it's not. Man does not do a great job of making that clear.

Nic

Yeah. And it. It does kind of group his, like, legitimate businesses with the wife and the kid a little too much. Like, I feel like the wife and the kid take him to an entirely different level of having something to live for and something to care about. But during this scene, it's like, I'm burning all this because he's had that.

Steve

Stuff for a while.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And he's been. I don't give a fuck. For a while. So if he got rid of, like, Jesse and the baby in the house, seems like that would be enough for him to sort of cut ties with his, you know, earthly worries.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And then still potentially have a couple businesses and all those people employed.

Nic

Right, right. He was a job creator there.

Steve

I did say so. Then he pulled. When he's at the car dealership, he pulls the vision board back out of his wallet one last time, looks at it, crumples it up and throws it on the ground. At which point I wrote the note. I'm rooting for Leo at this point. Like this is just not quite working for me.

Nic

I would have loved if he lit the vision board on fire while he held it in his hand.

Steve

That would have been cool, would have been better.

Nic

We see like OK's face burning, you know, as it cuts to the other scene. Yeah. So he shows up to Leo's house and again, you know, Leo, I'm the boss. I'm in control of everything. I'm the big man. Nothing happens until I can say. But my life is hanging out with this guy, this Fredo guy who's the fucking, at best like a dumb annoying guy. And he's sitting there reading the newspaper and this boring looking living room. And Fredo's like, hey, do you want some milk? I'm gonna go get myself a glass of milk. So it's like Leo, for all his power and stuff, has this life that is not enviable in any way.

Steve

I do feel like this is like indicative of sort of Chicago underworld folks. Like, I feel like we've seen this kind of thing specifically from like Chicago based mobsters and other movies and things. It reminds me a little bit of. I know he's not a mobster, but if you ever watch the show the Bear and. And the Oliver Platt character, Uncle Whatever. I get the vibe. Same vibe as Leo. Totally off of that character as well. And same kind of thing where it's just like when you boil it down, nice suburban house in a boring neighborhood. Really when you get down to it.

Nic

Right?

Steve

Totally.

Nic

Yeah. I mean, just trying to have like the total Soprano life. Like I just. Because the only avenue to like. It's like the Chris Rock joke about, you know, like in my neighborhood, like there's three black people who are all at the absolute apex of Jay Z.

Steve

And Mary J. Blige or whatever.

Nic

And then my neighbor is white and he's a dentist, you know, all that shit. So it's like to be a underworld figure and live in that neighborhood, you have to be top of the game.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So basically Frank comes in, he pistol whips the guy who's drinking milk and he's going after Leo. Leo knows that somebody's there and he.

Steve

Heard the commotion or whatever.

Nic

Hiding behind in a very unglamorous, uncool way. Like kind of hiding behind this cabinet.

Steve

Looks like a curio cabinet maybe full of, you know, Precious Moments figurines or something like that kind of the vibe like.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, but they're all like Chicago.

Steve

Sports themed Precious Moments of Bears starting lineup. Figures.

Nic

Oh, I got a Gail Sayers porcelain figure here.

Steve

So.

Nic

So Frank just takes Leo out. You know, Leo's there, he takes a couple shots towards Frank. Frank just blasts. There's some good squibs here.

Steve

Yeah, really pop out.

Nic

He doesn't kill Frank. He doesn't kill Leo all the way. So Leo kind of. He lets him recover a bit, take another shot at him, and then absolutely destroys him.

Steve

Puts him, puts him one between the eyes, which is of course alerts Leo's other sort of dudes or whatever. And there's now more gunplay and more gunfighting. It actually looks like at one point. So Frank does catch a bullet from. Or a shotgun blast, I guess, from the Dennis Farina character. And I thought, oh, shit, Frank's dead. They killed. The interesting way to end this movie. Oh, wait, no, he's fine. Nevermind. So then he kills Dennis Farina and walks away, right? Yeah, kind of. It.

Nic

He kind of walks down the street, right? So he takes out the two henchmen and that starts walking away. And I expected it to be the scene where, like, you see the sirens coming towards the house, where it seems inevitable that he'll be caught or killed. But it was just kind of like, hey, stay tuned for Thief too. Coming next summer, right?

Steve

Which. And now I'm even more like, you know, at this point in the movie, watching it, I'm even more like, dude, you could have had a car dealership in a bar. Like, why did you. You didn't. You win, right? You didn't need to do any of the things you did. Maybe you should have done them after. But I get that there's an element of the. You have to lose everything in order to act like a man with nothing to lose. So there's that, but it's still just.

Nic

Like, oh, like you did this stuff.

Steve

In the wrong order, kind of.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

Again, like maybe send the wife and kid away with all the money so that if you die, they are away and have money. And yeah, you'll never see them again because you're dead. But if you just sent them away saying, look, I'm either going to die or I'm not, then maybe you call her up and go, hey, guess what?

Nic

Right?

Steve

I didn't die. This is cool. Come home.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And I didn't blow up the house or my car dealership or my bar, maybe I don't have to be a thief anymore. Like, there's all kinds of things.

Nic

He could have solved this problem. Yeah. It was like he had to Revert to being like the worst version of what.

Steve

What.

Nic

What he was. Because that was all he knew. But yeah, he could have told his wife, like, hey, find a bar. I will call you at that bar and. And then I'll meet.

Steve

He's going. His wheelman's going with him for getting paid for three months. That's who he calls. I don't check in with you in a week.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Or whatever. You know, I don't know. It's just like. And. And I guess there's. There's a part of me that wants the character to be smarter than he is. And that's maybe my problem. Yeah. As a viewer. And this is just an accurate. This just makes sense for this character in a lot of ways. But man, it was. It was not a satisfying ending whatsoever for me.

Nic

No, No, I don't think so. And I think, I mean, that's a lot of the point of it maybe. And it's just like. Yeah, you're just not allowed to have certain. Like, sorry, like you, you want happiness, you want this, but you have a criminal past. Like you're not allowed to have this.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So, yeah, it was, it was kind of bleak at the end there.

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

And then we do. I feel, once again, as a fan of the soundtrack. You get it. Sick guitar solo to end this film. Dude. I enjoy the out of it. I enjoy the out of it. Yeah. So that is 1981's the.

Steve

Yeah, it's very. I'm very interesting movie at the very least. Yeah.

Nic

Yeah. So. So this was my pick.

Steve

It was.

Nic

I'll.

Steve

I'll hit us with it, man. What do you think, Nic?

Nic

Yeah. So having never seen this before, and this is definitely far different from other stuff that we've seen. I mean, this is probably the slowest paced movie that we've seen. Definitely feels more like we talked about like a 70s type movie than it does an 80s movie. But it's kind of like you see the 80s start to shine a little bit where there's a little more of a stylistic look rather than just be like super gritty black, like some color pops and stuff like that. Cool looking clothes. I like the music. As a fan of the music, it gets an extra point.

Steve

Fair enough from me.

Nic

I do like the performance. And again, I don't like the character. I don't like the guy.

Steve

That's fine though, right?

Nic

But I think that like you said, it's supposed to be a dumb guy who can't figure it out even if it's sitting right There in front of him. It's a guy who has, like low enough emotional intelligence that he can't see that Leo is trying to manipulate him.

Steve

Right.

Nic

In all these parts because he's just been already beaten down and like, things have been stripped from him by the system or whatever. It's not necessarily a fun watch. It's a long movie, but I don't know, like, what I really cut out of it. There's not a ton that's like super irrelevant other than him going to talk to that. That dude fishing at the lake, which doesn't come out later. But that is a beautifully shot.

Steve

It is gorgeous.

Nic

So I think if you settle into the vibe and the atmosphere of the movie, that's the best way to enjoy it. It's not a put on in the background while you're chatting with friends thing. Right. It's definitely like a lock in and focus. I am going to give Thief a three and a half out of five. I thought it was cool. I thought it was well done. I mean, you can't say that the movie looks bad. You can't say that they weren't trying to. That there's not like an artistic element to it. It's just that the things that are not satisfying about it have to do with the story. And I struggle wondering, like, is it because the story's bad or it's because this is an accurate story about what would happen, like these type of guys.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So three and a half for me, I think it's definitely worth checking out and should be known more than it is.

Steve

That's fair. I mean, and I think, look, there's a lot of. There's a lot of kind of. I won't even say things to like, but a lot of interesting things about this movie. I'm glad I watched it. I'm glad you brought it to the table. Table for us. You know, Michael Mann's first film. You know, Jim Belushi in. In a role where he's never a doofus or never that guy. Like, you know what I mean? It's like a very straight role by Jim Belushi in a lot of ways. I kind of dug that. I mean, he did a little later. What was that movie he did with Dolph Lundgren? The. Where it was the. The Russian and the American cop.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

You know, similar to that. Where it's like not. Not really a goofiness to him in it or anything like that. That. And he can pull that off. Love seeing Willie Nelson on screen. I'm A big Willie Nelson fan. Seen him live a couple times. He's a fantastic artist. Big fan of Willie Nelson's. I didn't like this movie. I didn't like this movie for a lot of reasons. I found the plot hard to follow at times. And, you know, I was not doing other things while watching it. And I've watched a few movies, so I feel like, you know, I'm a fairly savvy watcher. But, like, things like the geography, the fact that they were flying back and forth between California and Chicago was not real clear. It took me a while to figure that out. I hated the music. I just. And I don't hate synth music as a rule. Like, it's not like I'm against, like, 80s new wave or, you know, like I said, Vanjal made a joke earlier about Vangelis and Blade Runner and this being, like, Vangelist. No talent. I adore the soundtrack to Blade Runner. I think it's fantastic. And it is similar in some ways, but there is a. There was a sharpness and a lack of layers in the music that was a problem for me. Like the way if you listen to the Blade Runner soundtrack, there are so many harmonized layers of that sound, that electronic sound, that it gives you this very textured and full of depth musical bed for everything to sit on top of. And this was the other way around. It was so sharp and so above the sound level of everything else going on that it was the music on top of the movie and not the other way around. And to me, if the music is supporting the movie and everything is layering on top of the music, that's good. And if the music is over shadowing things and becoming what I notice more than everything else in the. In the thing, then it is actively detrimental to the film. So that's my take on the music. It's not even so much that I dislike the style, although it's not my bag of tea or whatever. My cup of tea, my bag of rocks or the whole.

Nic

Your bag of tea soaking in a cup of water.

Steve

Exactly. You know, that kind of thing. It's not. For me, that's fine. But I felt like it was actively undermining my enjoyment of the movie, which is a little different. So I am a 1 out of 5 on thief. Did not care for it. I don't think I'd recommend it to anybody. I don't think there's anything in it that you go, oh, man, you got to see this. There's no single scene that makes me go, oh, Holy shit. I got to make sure people see this. Like, a lot of times there's movies that I think are, like, kind of bad movies, but they made like one or two things. You go, well, that was cool.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And I did, like, the actual safe cracking with the big blowtorch thing that they had to do. But also, like, when you talk about, like, what would you cut out of this movie to make it less than 100 or less than 121 minutes or whatever it is, lots of conversations. Could have been a tenth as long as they were and gotten us all the same information that we needed. The entire opening sequence of the initial safe cracking, the getaway, all the cars, that whole thing took like 10 plus minutes. It didn't need to take 10 minutes. That could have been cut much, much tighter than it was. This easily could have been, in my opinion, like a 90 minute movie and lost basically nothing of substance. There's a lot of fluff and filler, in my opinion, in this. So, look, the movie's not for me. I. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who think Thief is a fantastic, you know, work of noir and, and, and, you know, like very much a stylized, kind of an important piece. It wouldn't shock me, but for me, it definitely does not work. And that makes us a four and a half out of ten on Thief. One of our lowest scores is that you're only one.

Nic

I'm trying to think. I think this is your lowest.

Steve

I think it is, yeah. Because I think I was a. No, I was a one on Pacific Heights. Oh, Pacific Heights was a one and Rocky four was a one and a half.

Nic

Those nice.

Steve

Those are my particular.

Nic

I do have to disclaim this just so we understand the underlying bias here. Steve has a vault full of loose diamonds in his house, and this movie terrifies him.

Steve

You gotta tell people that, man. We're recording.

Nic

All right, well, hey, this was, you know, not. Not the most fun. This was a great conversation, though. And I think there's definitely interesting stuff to get into in this movie. We're probably going in a different direction here. As we move through the decades. This was my pick for 1981, Steve, 2 dads, 2 decades. We're going to 1982 now. What do you got for us?

Steve

We are going to 1982, and I am very much mixing up the style. We're gonna go a whole different vibe, a whole different direction still with elements that, you know, like a lot of the early 80s maybe don't hold up under Modern Scrutiny in a lot of ways. But again, very, very different vibe. We're gonna go to a movie that kick started the careers of so many young actors in the 1980s. This was the first. First, if not the first role period, like, the first kind of major film for people. Like. And I mean, I'm gonna name names you're gonna think about when you think of this movie and name names you're not gonna think about. But Anthony Edwards, Eric Stoltz, Jennifer Jason Lee, Judge Reinhold, Phoebe Cates, Sean Penn, Fast Times, Ridgemont High. That's what we're gonna.

Nic

Nicholas Cage.

Steve

Nicholas Cage?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Where's Nicholas Cage in this movie?

Nic

Oh, he's one of the guys that works at All American.

Steve

Oh, my God. That's amazing. I did not realize. I saw. I noticed Anthony Edwards and Eric Stoltz as the stoner buddies.

Nic

I did not realize he's as Nic Copa in the credits.

Steve

Love it. Oh, my God, that's amazing. Wonderful. Yeah. We're gonna go watch Fast Times of Ridgemont High next week.

Nic

Beautiful. I love it. I. I'm definitely more familiar with this than I was with Deep, and I think this will be fun. This will be a good way to mix it up. So I look forward to chatting about this with you next week.

Steve

Awesome. That's a wrap. So if you like what you hear, and we hope you do, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a five star review. It really helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website@2dads1movie.com. That's the number two and the number one. There you can explore the movies we've covered, sign up for our newsletter the rewind, and even get sneak previews of upcoming episodes. We'd also love it if you followed us on Instagram @2dads1movie. Once again, this has been Thief, another episode of 2dads1movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks, everyone.