Transcript

Intro Clip

I wonder if you gentlemen could tell me where I could find Mr. Gustafson? No, Gustafson, no, no, sorry.

Intro Clip

Mr. John Gustafson?

Intro Clip

That's right.

Intro Clip

Uh, oh yeah, you mean the lowlife, asswipe, egg sucker John Gustafson?

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Have you seen him?

Intro Clip

Man's crazy, loco, always hanging out around those kinky strip bars. You know, the ones where the men take their clothes off?

Intro Clip

Oh, for God's sake.

Intro Clip

That's, of course, if he's taken his medication.

Intro Clip

Medication?

Intro Clip

Yes, without it, he could be anywhere, wandering around, talking to the trees. Believe me, this man is a menace. He's always drinking, starting fights. Isn't that right?

Intro Clip

But have you seen him? No.

Intro Clip

I think perhaps Um, no, no, no.

Intro Clip

If you see him, would you give him this and tell him he must contact Mr. Snyder as soon as possible?

Intro Clip

Snyder.

Intro Clip

Snyder. That's me. It's important.

Intro Clip

Important. Yes, sir. We'll tell him when we see him.

Steve

It's 2 Dads 1 Movie. It's the podcast where 2 middle-aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about The movies of the '80s and '90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve. And I'm Nic. And today we are moving into a whole new theme month. It's November. Welcome to November, everyone. This month is Feast Mode here at 2 Dads 1 Movie. We are going to be doing Thanksgiving movies, that tried and true— there's a thousand to choose from. Everybody thinks of Thanksgiving movies as like You know, what are Christmas— nobody goes to Christmas movies. Thanksgiving movies are where it's at.

Nic

Yeah, exactly.

Steve

Yeah. So we had thousands of people from—.

Nic

The Hallmark Thanksgiving Channel they have on cable.

Steve

Exactly. 25 Days of Thanksgiving on ABC Family or whatever. Yeah. So we were doing Thanksgiving movies this month and we're starting off with Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau in Grumpy Old Men. Nic, you picked this for us. Yeah. What's your history, if any, with Grumpy Old Men?

Nic

No history. Yeah. Like I said, I was struggling hard, man. This top, for whatever reason, I was just like, Nothing popped into my head as a Thanksgiving movie, so I just searched like, "What's a Thanksgiving movie?" And this was one that that showed up, and I was like, "I've actually never seen that before." Okay. And I really like you know what I've been into lately is I watched a couple times in the last few years is the taking of Pelham One Two Three with Walter Matthau. Fucking rules! Like totally different vibe in the movie, but I'm but I'm like these guys are great. Like these old actors are great. I don't give them enough credit again as a kid. I have these biases of things that are old or things that are black and white. Things that star old people are not good, and they're not for me. Well, guess what? I'm a fucking old person now, and it's time to check this out. So I'd never seen this before, but I thought this would be great to see a few actors we haven't seen that we love very much, and also just like to bring a family-friendly vibe after the last few very, very disturbing you know picks in the last several, especially coming from me.

Steve

You've read this.

Nic

So so yeah, how about you, Steve? You've seen this one before.

Steve

Yeah, this was one I actually saw several times in the nineties, like as a high schooler. I was big. I was a big Jack Lemmon fan. I had seen and loved the original Odd Couple movie after watching The Odd Couple TV show with Tony Randall and Jack Klugman on Nick at Nite a bunch and like enjoying just the whole, you know, Felix and Oscar sort of back and forth. Yeah. And then my mom was like, you know, at some point was like, oh, you know, that was a movie. I'm like, what? Watched the movie, loved it. I saw Some Like It Hot in high school, you know? So I just got into a Jack Lemmon sort of thing where I just thought he was a very funny guy and really appreciated Jack Lemmon in particular. And so when this came out, like, I don't think I saw this in the theater or anything like that, but I think this was one like my parents rented, you know, at one point, and we all sat down to watch together. And, you know, I just really enjoyed it. And I remember watching it several times as a kid. I don't think I've seen it in like 25 or 30 years at this point.

Nic

Oh, nice.

Steve

So it'd been a long, long time, but like I have positive sort of memories of this movie. Nothing in particular, like no bit of it that like really stood out so much as, oh yeah, I remember that movie. That's a really enjoyable movie. Yeah, exactly. You know, kind of thing. And so I was really excited when you put it on the list. I was like, oh cool, I get to watch Grumpy Old Men again. In a while. And so, yeah, but this was definitely one that I enjoyed back, back in the day. So, and we are getting older, Nic, but, you know, Lemmon and Matthau were in their 60s and 70s, so we're not quite there yet for this one. But let's jump into—.

Nic

I'm gonna go grumpy for grumpy with both of them.

Steve

Fair enough. Absolutely. Let's jump into the facts on the movie Grumpy Old Men. It was released on Christmas Day, 1993, with a PG rating and a running time of 103 minutes, directed by Donald Petrie and written by Mark Steven Johnson. It stars Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau, and Ann-Margret. Scores, we got Rotten Tomatoes, 67% on Rotten Tomatoes. So fresh, but like near the bottom of the fresh sort of scale. IMDb 7.0, exactly on that borderline between like good and not so good. And then from the 2 grumpy old men themselves, Siskel and Ebert, we get 2 thumbs down. This was not one that they enjoyed. The general populace disagreed with Siskel and Ebert, however, because on a $35 million budget, which like, where's $35 million? I mean, I don't know if like the whole ice fishing sequences required—.

Nic

Did they film it in LA and they had to create a fake ice pond?

Steve

No, it was actually, I read about this 'cause it was not Actually filmed in Wabasha, which is a real small town. It was, but in but in certain neighborhoods in Saint Paul, so it was filmed up in Minnesota. But yeah, thirty-five million dollar budget. I don't know if Lemon and Mathow took home big paychecks or something or what. Yeah, but it did make seventy million at the box office, and for this kind of a little family-friendly picture that that clearly isn't meant to to appeal to children in any way, it's an interesting take. And and so to pull in double what it costed, and it did spawn a sequel. And actually, I think Mathow and Lemon did like. 4 more movies together after this, whereas it had been 15-plus years since they'd been in something, uh, to this point. So it really kind of gave both of them another sort of spark to their careers as well.

Nic

And I love seeing the, the certain actors that just play so well off each other that make, you know, the Gene Wilder and, uh, Richard Pryor. And like, so it's great to see them like, yeah, re-spark their relationship and, and make more after that.

Steve

Absolutely. Yeah, very good stuff. Uh, all right, this was your pick. I'm gonna let you kick it off. How does Grumpy Old Men start?

Nic

All right, so Grumpy Old Men, we kind of got a lot of like snowy establishing shots. Like you said, we're in Minnesota and, um, we've, uh, you know, just shown this little small town, looks very, very quaint, uh, and we're introduced to Jack Lemmon who is, uh, John Gustafson. Yes, right. And, um, and then next door to him, or across the street, next door to him is, uh, Max Goldman who's played by Walter Matthau.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And they obviously don't like each other, you know, from the very beginning. Uh, we see that, uh, Gustafson has like a 30-day like levy notice.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Uh,.

Steve

Well, there's a— because there's a door, there's a guy at his door, this guy knocking or whatever, right?

Nic

Oh, that's right, he's trying to avoid this guy.

Steve

And this guy, this is an IRS, uh, representative of some kind played by Buck Henry, famous actor, writer, comedian who wrote The Graduate, won an Oscar for that. So again, this is a movie— I think we kind of mentioned it at the end of last week's This is a movie where like everybody in this movie is somebody. Like there's not really an unrecognizable face. If you're familiar with some of that, maybe a little more niche, like Buck Henry's a little niche, but like everybody in this movie is somebody, it feels like, and including him. And so yeah, he is trying to get ahold of Mr. Gustafson or whatever, and he's knocking on the door and Jack, you know, John, I'm gonna fuck up and call them by their actors' names over and over again, but John sneaks out like an upper window and is able to get safely down, which is like dangerous. Dude's in his 60s. He should not be on a snow-covered roof, but he's able to get down and he goes around the back of his house where he runs into Max. And it's like every time see each other, it's, it's moron, butts, like, you know, just like constantly, which is great, or idiot or whatever.

Nic

That's a lot of fun. And the IRS, uh, agent comes up to both of them and he, and he asks Max, he's like, do you know John Gustafson? And Max kind of knows a little bit what's up. He at least knows like, yeah, yeah, oh, you're avoiding this guy. He's like, oh, you mean the lowlife? You mean that? It's just like running up and his voice is so funny. I mean, the way that Walter Matthau talks is just.

Steve

He goes to those kinky strip clubs where the men take their clothes off. You know those ones? Yeah, John Gustafson's a real piece of work.

Nic

Uh, so, so that's a great way to introduce these 2 guys, right?

Steve

But sure enough, the guy just leaves their card, leaves his card like, hey, it's very important that Mr. Gustafson calls me. It's like, oh, okay, sure, we'll let him know, you know, kind of thing.

Nic

Uh, and they see that there's a new neighbor moving across the street, moving truck and all this stuff. So they see some, some action across the street.

Steve

And the kind of jokes in this movie I think are perfectly represented by what happens at one point here where they're watching and this big statue, big, it looks like made out of wood or something, gets pulled out of this truck and they're both like, whoa, kind of thing. And then we're looking at Jack Lemmon's face and he goes, Jesus. And there's a painting of Jesus that's coming. It's like, that's the kind of joke that is throughout this entire movie. Yeah. It's like little gag things, little moments like that. If that's your jam, you can enjoy this. If you get irritated by that kind of like observational, kind of like weird little moment humor, it's not probably gonna land. This is not like a laugh out loud funny movie. This is like a— No. This is like a— like, I think I chuckled like 100 times.

Nic

Like, it's a, like, a pleasant evening with your parents movie.

Steve

Yes, exactly.

Nic

Like, you enjoy it with family and everything. Yeah. Um, so now we're that night, right? And, and they're awakened by some noise. Uh, one of them looks at the clock, we see it's like 1:44 in the morning. And then we see out the window, supposedly the new neighbor flying around on their snowmobile, uh, which is the dirt bike of the tundra, which is kind of the official vehicle of cold weather crime.

Steve

The official vehicle of— By the transit of property. That's true.

Nic

So, uh, so the snowmobile and doing all these crazy tricks and everything, and then the person gets off and takes the helmet off and we see that it's this beautiful woman. Oh, hubba hubba, who moved in across the street, who's snowmobiling at 2 AM.

Steve

Yeah, and she, she's, uh, Ann-Margret plays her, and, uh, the character's name— well, literally the character's name is Ariel. Um, I think she's probably meant to be in like her early to mid-50s. She's definitely younger than these guys, but she's pretty age-appropriate, right? She's not like a young woman, right? So, so that's cool. But yeah, she's gorgeous and she, she looks great. She's got this bright red hair. You know, and she was like— there's a connection here between this movie and Do the Right Thing, actually, which is that the inspiration for Rosie Perez's dancing montage at the beginning of Do the Right Thing was actually Bye Bye Birdie, when Ann-Margret does the dance at the beginning of that movie in the credits. And so there's a little connection here between those 2 movies. But yeah, so Ann-Margret, you know, sex symbol of the '60s. And yeah, she is great casting. Great.

Nic

Okay, so to continue the Do the Right Thing thread, because I have 2 more Do the Right Thing things here. So, uh, so the next morning, right, we've got, uh, we've got Max and John who are out at their cars, and it seems like they, they have kind of similar days every day. Like, you wake up, you go to the ice fishing.

Steve

They're retired, you know.

Nic

They're retired and they're up, and this is, uh, Jack or John. Yeah,.

Steve

I know, it's gonna be hard.

Nic

Scraping the ice off the windshield.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

He's doing a worse job than Pino was trying to slice the pizza at Sal's Pizzeria. And again, I fully understand it. It's the same reason that you never see them like satisfactorily wipe blood off their face or whatever. It's hard to recreate the icy windshield for prop purposes.

Steve

Multiple takes.

Nic

But it's really funny. He's just kind of like waving at it.

Steve

It's really half-assed.

Nic

And then the first place they go right after that is to the bait shop slash diner slash, you know, general store thing run by one of our favorites, Ossie Davis there.

Steve

Love it. Chuck is his name. Yeah, yeah.

Nic

So we get back-to-back-to-back little Do the Right Thing references.

Steve

That's good stuff. Right before they leave the front of the house, they're like— I wrote down, just because I wrote down a few lines when they made me laugh, but like Walter Matthau saying, eat my shorts. It's just very funny. And then John says something about, Jesus, Quincy Adams. And I just thought that was a funny fucking way to swear. Like, Jesus, Quincy Adams. It's funny. But basically, they're gonna go— yes, they go to the—.

Nic

I think the Quincy Adams add-on is kind of like the Electric Boogaloo add-on of the early '70s. In the early 1800s, that was their way to, like, say that something was a sequel.

Steve

Simple emphasis. Yeah. You know, I used to say Jesus tap dancing Christ. It's the same kind of thing, you know? Yeah. But yeah, so then, so we go to the little shop and, like, John is there to buy bait and he's, like, complaining about how expensive the bait is and it's 75 cents, it's worms. And Chuck's like, yeah, dude, it's the middle of winter. Like, there's no worms around, dude. Yeah. There's supply and demand. And so, and then so he goes to, John buys some beer and some bait and he goes out to Muskeville, which is the ice fishing sort of shanty village that everybody has here in the winter.

Nic

Looks awesome, by the way. Amazing. I want to go. So shout out to a friend of ours, friend of the show, Jeff Harrow. Lives out in Minnesota. Does go ice fishing frequently. Jeff, I want to go ice fishing with you. Let's find a time because I really would love to do that.

Steve

I like to wear shorts everywhere I go, so I can't. I'll let you guys just, you know. But.

Nic

He's— so the way that these, these shanties are, they're all kind of like very shack-like, very kind of Homemade looking almost, or just like storage shed from Home Depot. He's told me that people have insane setups, right? So it would be like, like a 30-foot trailer, like you'd camp in. Oh my God, with a little hole. So it's heated and it's got TVs on the wall and like a beer tap and all that. So people go insane with that. You just basically have a mansion that you could tow around that has a hole in the bottom you can fish through. All right. Fantastic.

Steve

I'm in. I'm in.

Nic

And, uh, and one of the people who's kind of at the fishing village in his little shack is, uh, is John's dad, Mr. Gustafson, who's, you know, in his 90s. I think he mentions at some point he's 96 or something.

Steve

Crazy. It's Burgess Meredith, right? We love— you can't not love Burgess Meredith. The guy's amazing.

Nic

And, and he's establishing himself as the pervy old man here. So, uh, so John's like, oh yeah, this, uh, this new lady moved in across the street. He's like, did you mount her? Which for some reason, out of an old guy, you're just kind of— you want to pat him on the head and be like, oh.

Steve

But I gotta be honest, like, mount is both like in no way a swear or like, or like whatever, but also like the dirtiest fucking way to say that in some ways. It's really bad. But it's, it's— we are— we have to establish dirty old man. There's grumpy old men in, in Matthau and Lemon, and then there's dirty old man in Burgess Meredith. And so that's the little difference there. But basically it's just, you know, they go ice fishing and it's just kind of quick. We see Oh, uh, uh, Max mentions this, this, uh, uh, uh, his fishing rod called the Green Hornet. It's like this little—.

Nic

It looks like the shittiest fishing rod. Oh yeah, looks like a toy. Little tiny kid's rod that should— yeah, that should have Elsa on it.

Steve

Right, exactly.

Nic

And magnets to catch the fake fish.

Steve

Exactly. But he says, you.

Nic

Know, he's like, this is the most reliable. I've had this for, you know, decades.

Steve

Catches more every time. Like, yep. And so they get back to the houses and of course, yes, Max has 7 or 8 fish on his, on his like line. And, you know, John's got 2.

Nic

John's just got a couple little guys.

Steve

And he says, well, I throw back whatever I don't. Eat, you know, and he's like, "Yeah, right, sure." So John goes, and apparently Max left his door unlocked. So he goes and he throws one of the fish like into the back underneath the seats in Max's car, and that is not going to go well. No, that's definitely gross.

Nic

So Ariel comes over from across the street to introduce herself. She comes to John's house, yes, and is pretty like I would be like, you know what? You're not coming over here after this because she just comes and starts like poking around in his house.

Steve

Well, but first she he not she knocks on the door. He doesn't know who's knocking on the door, so he thinks it's the. IRS guy again. He goes climbing out the window again, and this time falls off the roof, luckily into powdered, you know, fresh snow. And that's when he sees that it's Ariel. And he's, you know, she's like, oh, can I come in? And he goes, yeah, can I help you? She's like, yeah, I just came to use the bathroom. And he's like, okay, sure, it's over there. Oh, no, no, no. You can find out so much about somebody by looking through their bathroom. And I'm thinking to myself, this is horrific. Horrific that you would come and just be like, I'm gonna go through your bathroom. Like, no, you're not.

Nic

Hell no.

Steve

Good Lord.

Nic

I don't want anyone who comes to my house, I don't want you to comment on anything in the house or look at anything. Eyes front, have fucking blinders on, eat, talk to me, and then leave. I don't want to hear commentary about my bathroom.

Steve

It's terrible.

Nic

And she also like took his mail.

Steve

Right. Yes.

Nic

Right. And she's like looking through his mail. And I was like, that's how I'm gonna learn about you. Very invasive. But he's just like, hey, there's a lady over here, whatever. She's kind of interesting. We find out that she, uh, she teaches American literature at the school nearby, and she's come from California. This is an era they— this movie has a very John McClane view of fucking California. And first, she makes a suction cup Garfield reference, which I really enjoy.

Steve

Yeah, it's good.

Nic

It's like, hey man, you guys are looking out your windows like that was the big— that was our 6/7.

Steve

What movie is it where there's one on the outside? Oh, L.A. Story. Steve Martin's car, the Garfield is on the outside of the rear window. So as he's like driving wildly, it's like kind of like moving a little bit and it's looking in on him. Oh man, that's what we'll have to do later.

Nic

And she asked him and puts him off by this question. She's like, are you hetero or homo? Right.

Steve

And he's like, well, why? It's like, just answer the question, bro. It's not that hard. But of course the insinuation is that she, you know, she should know. Right.

Nic

Because he's a dude. You didn't see me yet.

Steve

This is Minnesota. Yeah. I guess like whatever. So yeah, the next day they're at the drugstore and Max and John are sharing, you know, trading back and forth whose ailments are worse. You got lumbago and I got sciatica. And I got this, I got that, and whatever. And then she shows up and she says— Ariel says, oh, first of all, she's got herbal something or other that she's waiting to get picked up. And the druggist is like giving her eyes with apparently his wife or somebody next to him. Yes. Yeah, it's very kind of, whoa, this chick is like really turning heads in this little town. But she's got some tea tree herbal something or other that she's picking up from California, has been sent from California, all this stuff. It's fucking wild. Um, and she tells Max, oh, they delivered some of your mail to my address by accident. Mistake, which is like Max has lived in that house, we're told, probably for something like 50 years. Like, there's no way.

Nic

The mailman comes to his house every other Thanksgiving.

Steve

Like, the mailman is the kid of Max's old mailman. Like, it's like a generational mailman thing.

Nic

Um, where they're, they're having this conversation about like who's got the worst ailment. Yeah, it's very funny. Earlier when they're scrape— not scraping their windshields, they're having a conversation about what would be the best way to die. Yeah, yeah. So This movie, I think, was one of the first— and these things have kind of become cliché of like, oh, that's what old people talk about— but to see it on screen, I think, yeah, this was like a disregarded part of the population. Like, yeah, you were just supposed to get pushed off a cliff when you turned 70. So it was like very interesting to see this perspective here.

Steve

Totally. Yeah. And they agree, you know, going in your sleep, something quick, you know. Uh, somebody said something like, oh, you know, this is what got him. Oh, that's not slow, or that's not quick, like a stroke. And then Max is like, a stroke's not quick. And Jack's like— John's like, oh, give me a cardiac anytime, you know, kind of thing. All of a sudden they're just Just a little foreshadowing. But you know, like, so they're just going back and forth with that stuff, which is so funny. But now we're gonna move ahead.

Nic

Oh, sorry, real quick. Yeah, yeah. The pharmacist? Yes. That guy, I was like, I know that face. I know, yeah. Mathnet.

Steve

Yes!

Nic

Did you ever watch that?

Steve

Yes, yes, yes, you're absolutely right.

Nic

So I was like, what was that called? I was like, I knew it was like some fake cop show that was like a PBS—.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah, detectives or something, but it was math, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fucking—.

Nic

And I think he was like Agent Monday or something, they changed the name slightly. So shout out to MastNet.

Steve

There you go.

Nic

So Jack is now—.

Steve

I think we're meeting the kids. Yeah, Jack and John.

Nic

I was gonna say Gustafson, Gus dog, the Gusinator. So John is at home now with his daughter. Yes, right. Who's there to visit, and she's got a kid. So he's a grandfather, and Daryl Hannah is his daughter Mel, and she's kind of talking about like her and her husband are separating.

Steve

Yeah, like it's not going well. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause he says to me like, oh, people ask, I tell them you and Mike are doing great, you know, whatever. And she's like, yeah, Mike and I are not doing great. And he goes, yeah, I kind of figured. And so they talk a little bit and he does a really classic older person thing, which is tries to like make the conversation an example of like what he did or whatever. Like, oh yeah, I know Mike's not around a lot. I was never around. And she's like, we're talking about me, Dad. Like, stop it. Which is very like kind of boomer coded, even though I know obviously Jacqueline is much older than a boomer, but like, you know, it's kind of the same style. Yeah. They're having that conversation while at the same time, Jacob, who is Max's son, played by Kevin Pollak, comes over. To bring him lawn signs, 'cause Max, or Jacob rather, is running for mayor of Wabasha. And so he's got these big, you know, Max Goldman, or excuse me, Jacob Goldman for mayor, all this stuff. And, you know, like Max is like, no, no, come on in, come on in, you gotta do this thing. So I guess this may be after Mel left because I know John sits down, I fucking do John and Jack constantly. John sits down to watch like the Powerball.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Right? And so he's sitting down, he's got like a little TV dinner kind of microwave thing or whatever it is. And he's sitting down and he's got his little, tickets that he bought, you know, he's gonna win $6.5 million or whatever it is. And Max has a basket full of remote controls. And I remember having a lot of remote controls in the house, like when we were younger, because, you know, my dad was sort of an audiophile. Like I said, we've had like LaserDiscs. So you'd have like, you got the VCR remote, the LaserDisc remote, the TV remote. There'd be like a stereo, like whatever. It'd be all, everything had to have its own. Like nothing, there was no universal remote back in like the '80s and early '90s, right? And so he's got all these things. And one of them apparently is for, John's TV.

Nic

Yeah,.

Steve

Because he—.

Nic

There's like an infomercial for a universal remote amount of remotes. Remember they showed an ad and it's like, are you tired of fumbling? And it's a person who's like holding beers like Tatum in Scream.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And with remotes and they're just like falling. So yeah, love— really great.

Steve

There is nothing better than the abject stupidity of the people in infomercials and just the, just the incompetence of anyone to figure out before the product is always just so idiotic in a wonderful way. I could— I know there are YouTube channels.

Nic

Before I had a Magic Bullet, I just had to run fruit over with my car to make a smoothie. So fucking funny, man.

Steve

So ridiculous. How to keep road grit out of your smoothie, use a Ninja Bullet. Like, fuck, what? Like,.

Nic

Anyway, uh, uh, so this is— yeah, this is a funny scene because they're standing in the window and they're watching John there who's all excited. And this is all he has, right?

Steve

Because he's got this IRS bill. Like,.

Nic

He's just living that Kirk Van Houten lifestyle. And he was talking earlier about, like, you know, I throw back all the fish I don't eat. But every time it shows him eating, he's eating the saddest, like, frozen or pre-prepared meal. Uh, and he's all excited. And then, you know, they start reading the, the numbers off, and then Max flips the channel, and John's like, what the fuck? You know? And it flips it back. So, yeah, great gag and great, like, great job by Max to just extract whatever joy he can out of that moment. He's like, oh, this is my favorite part of the night.

Steve

But Jacob is like, you're a literal child. Like, his own son is like, what are you doing? This is ridiculous. Ridiculous. And we get, and we get a little bit from Max and Jacob here. I'm not gonna go into like all the details, but a little bit of the backstory of just that like John and Max have known each other for years. And, and he said something like, oh yeah, I'm sure John started every fight since 1940. And he goes, 1938. You know, it's like, that's how long— this is '93, right? So you're talking, you know, what is that, like 53 years? I mean, that's a crazy amount of time. 55 years or something, you know. So crazy amount of time that they've been at each other's throats. And then, uh, when Max goes to like— or when Jacob's gonna leave—.

Nic

Jacob makes him apologize.

Steve

That's right. You're gonna go out to apologize. He opens the door, or the, or the window. That's right, opens the window. And John's out there with the hose and just sprays into the house in the freezing cold. Freaking smart. Love it.

Nic

Oh, man. So, uh, so now we're at the next morning.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And we're going out to do our day again.

Steve

We're going to ice fish.

Nic

We're going to get our bait and all that stuff. And Max gets in the car and—.

Steve

It stinks.

Nic

Walter Matthau, just one of the best old man expressive faces ever.

Steve

They shot that thing—.

Nic

Oh, like— He should be the universal icon for something that smells really bad. Yeah, you know, like Matthau's face in this scene is very good.

Steve

He's got a very wide, large, expressive face that he can somehow crunch into like an inch tall, like really small, tiny face.

Nic

Oh man, so funny. So, so he's trying to figure out like what it is and he can't figure out, you know, what it is. Yeah, yeah, quite yet. Um, they're at, uh, they're at Chuck's place now. They're talking to Chuck. So it's Max and John and Chuck and they're sitting there chatting about women.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And,.

Steve

Uh, yeah, and talking about like, uh, uh, that this girl, this woman moved in and like, or have you guys talked to her?

Nic

Like, whatever.

Steve

Yeah, you know, this stuff. And Chuck's like, y'all are being idiots, uh, you know, and you, you've got this beautiful woman, you could talk to her, but instead y'all would rather fight with each other. It's so ridiculous. And, um, they both invite Chuck over to— for Thanksgiving, uh, for dinner or whatever. And he says like, oh no, no, I gotta go to the VFW, uh, you know, the vets hall basically.

Nic

Expect me every year.

Steve

Every year I'll be there. Oh sure, I forgot about that. No big deal. And then And John leaves and Max kind of comes back and goes like, you know, like, Chuck, do I smell— like, I smelled it in the car. Like, is it me? And he goes, yeah, it's you. Yeah. But of course, if now he would smell like whatever was in the car, for one thing.

Nic

Like, I gotta say, to be noticeably smelly in a bait shop.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Top tier ability. Um, and, and back in Max's car.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

To get rid of the smell, referencing one of our movies from Shocktoberfest, we got all these air fresheners just like in 7.

Steve

8 or 9 of them just from the rearview mirror. So many. Like, like in a comparison of, of like density. Yeah, it's equal to the, to the room in Seven. But yeah, tons of those little pine, uh, pine tree air fresheners because the whole place just stinks.

Nic

Yeah. Um, and so we're ice fishing, uh, ice fishing now, and Max, he gets a hold of something. He's got his Green Hornet, his little rod. He gets a hold of something and it gets pulled.

Steve

Well, he, it's like he leaves it like laying on a thing really precariously. I don't know how this hasn't happened to him before because, because it starts to rattle. He's like trying to watch the Minnesota University of Minnesota hockey game Oh, that's right, the TV's like not coming in. So he's— whatever. So, but he looks over and he can see the, the fishing line or the fishing rod rattle, and he doesn't just grab it. So by the time he moves, it's already sort of sliding into the— and sure enough, it falls into the ice hole, and he goes apoplectic. Like, he is freaking out. He gets a hatchet and he's trying to like hack into the ice out into the walkway where everybody is.

Nic

He's trying to like follow where he thinks it got taken by the fish. Yeah, so he's losing his mind, man.

Steve

Yeah. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. But he does not, he does not get it. He sort of gives up.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Uh, but yeah.

Nic

Um, let's see. So now we've got—.

Steve

It's Thanksgiving night now, I think. Like.

Nic

Thanksgiving night. And does Jacob go over to say hello to John and Mel?

Steve

No, Jacob, Jacob goes to Max's and then Mel is at John's. And then I think it's, uh, they're about to leave or something when the two— because, because basically, uh, everybody sees Chuck go across the street to Ariel's. That's right. And so like, oh, he's not at the VFW, like he's seeing Ariel. Oh my gosh. And then, uh, and Pops is also with, uh, Mel and John as well. And he says, looks like Chuck's taking old One-Eye to the optometrist. It's just gross.

Nic

Uh, I gotta say, uh, Jack's dad looking a lot like present-day Mitch McConnell in this too.

Steve

Like very present. Yeah, yeah, like right now.

Nic

Um, yeah, he's taking the old one-eyed to the optometrist. So funny. And so the next day, yeah, they, they're at Chuck's again,.

Steve

But they're not like fully confronting him.

Nic

They kind of go in and they're like, oh, how was turkey? How was VFW?

Steve

Yeah, the boys expected— how was the turkey at the VFW this year, huh? And they call him out like, we saw you, you went over to Ariel's. Like, you know, and they basically think that they boned, and he's kind of like telling them like, no, it wasn't like that. Like, it was— she made me feel like young again. She made me feel like a man with like passion. So she just made me feel really good. Yeah, you know, and, and she's like an angel, basically, is what he says.

Nic

Yep, yep, yeah. And they're like, oh, what's the matter, you couldn't get it up?

Steve

Yeah, right.

Nic

Yeah. Um, so they're both kind of like now realizing that, okay, uh, she's open to visitors and she's not fucking Chuck. So hey, there you go, we're both gonna try to shoot our shot. They're both like rushing to get—.

Steve

Oh man, to get ready.

Nic

To go over and.

Steve

Greet her, putting on some smell good, getting their hair done and pomade and like whatever, all old man stuff. But John takes a little extra time picking a hat.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

And he's got to take the extra time to pick it out. So by the time he walks out his front door to go across the street, he looks up and Max is already at the door and Ariel is welcoming him in. And he is— John's pissed, but he's also like, I fucking missed my chance. That's it. Goddamn it.

Nic

Yep. Yeah. Uh, when she's talking to him, she says, uh, she says, do you paint? Yeah. And he goes, I fish.

Steve

Well, he goes, yeah, every spring I paint the shed.

Nic

Yeah, right. Oh, and he loved his own joke too. But he does say, uh, will you accompany me to my ice shanty?

Steve

Would you do me the honor of accompanying me to my ice shanty?

Nic

I think it's— it makes me want to do it more that it's called an ice shanty.

Steve

I know, it's good. I like it. I like the shanty.

Nic

Like, I would go to a bar called the Ice Shanty. I think that would be kind of—.

Steve

My only problem is anytime I hear the word shanty, I either think chanty, like those sailor songs or whatever, like that's called a chanty. So I think of that, or I think of Shooter McGavin telling everybody on the golf course to go back to your shanties.

Nic

Little foreshadowing there. Shoot him again. Um, so of course, so of course Max and Ariel are fishing together, and, and he's gonna be like the, all right, listen, you dumb broad, this is how you do it. And she immediately catches like the biggest fish he's ever seen, right?

Steve

40-Pound enormous fish.

Nic

They're catching these little fish that are like 8 inches long, like single male, like, yeah. And then, yeah, she catches this thing that's like a fish that would have a nickname, like Old Whatever, like in the lake, you know, everyone would have That's.

Steve

Old Musky. He keeps escaping from everybody.

Nic

Uh, but of course, because she's a California weirdo—.

Steve

Weirdo.

Nic

She has to let her fish go.

Steve

Yeah, 'cause she's— oh, and there's a really kind of funny thing here that definitely went over my head as a kid, but basically they're being very loud, like yelling, and she's kind of shrieking and squealing. And so everybody outside the shanty is like, what is going on in there? And then she starts yelling about how exciting this is and how important the release is. Oh, it's time for the release, Max. All this stuff. And it's like, okay, And then when she lets the fish go, she kind of goes, ah, and he goes, no! Like, it's like, oh my God, it was either a wail of terror or the most horrifying orgasm anyone has ever.

Nic

Heard. Yeah. Uh, and then, uh, quickly we see that, uh, that Jack's dad—.

Steve

Yeah, yeah—.

Nic

Has, uh, caught Max's pole. Like, he's— it's come up. So.

Steve

He says that's the only thing he caught that morning.

Nic

Yeah, the only thing he caught was this old fishing pole.

Steve

So, so, so John takes it. And, uh, yeah. And then, uh, and then I think they go— he goes to Chuck's, John does, again, either to buy more bait or to talk about— I don't know if he's bringing the rod with him or whatever, but he sees that it's closed, and there's like a sheriff or somebody closing the store. That's weird. Um, and then we cut to, uh, Max being back home and talking to John, I think, right? And he said, you know, they were kind of bantering to begin with, but then John just turns and goes, Chuck's— he's dead. Chuck's dead. You would've known that if you weren't, like, you know, gallivanting with that girl, or whatever he tries to say. Right, right.

Nic

You're an asshole for going out and being on a date while our friend was dying.

Steve

Exactly. So, but yeah, so Chuck is gone. So even in this movie, the only Black character has to die first.

Nic

And it's not even a horror movie. We're big fans of him on the podcast. And like I told you before the pod, I would love if Chuck had survived because I think that the 3 of them would have been a good movie or in some combination with Chuck as one of the grumpy old men.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah.

Nic

Like that would have been wonderful.

Steve

Very, very different style with the 3rd person, but it's like he played such a nice sort of foil between them, you know? Like, I agree with you. Yeah, for sure.

Nic

Yeah. He wouldn't have had the history going back to like the But it would have been a fun— like, he's a good mediation between these guys.

Steve

Yeah, for sure.

Nic

Um, and their reaction, you know, Max's reaction when he says Chuck's dead was just kind of like, ah, like, yeah, this old person, like, yeah, that's what happens to your friends, they die.

Steve

Yeah, which, I mean, you get to a certain point in life and that you get, you know, it's sort of— it's like different. But we had, um, a couple weeks ago, or actually last weekend, uh, my wife and I, my— our kids, we went to a wedding of my nephew. And this is like the thing now, it's like my friends aren't getting married right now. It's like the younger generation of my family is starting to get married. Yeah. And so we're going to weddings. And so that's, you know, the thing where it's like we're in between the two, but eventually it's like, you know, then you start going to, you know, funerals of your friends' parents maybe or something. And then it's like, yeah, then it's your friends and it's just kind of like different. And I'm really sad now. I just made myself very sad thinking about all that. But anyway.

Nic

No, I thought this was supposed to be feast mode. We're supposed to be celebrating. See? No, but it's like these different phases of your life where like certain things become normal.

Steve

Yep, exactly.

Nic

So, John has to go with him.

Steve

Well, so, right, so John, basically there's a knock at John's door, and this time he thinks it's Max, like, coming back to argue. And actually, at this point, I think before this happens, John snaps Green Hornet the fishing rod.

Nic

That's right, he was gonna give it back to him, but he's like, fuck that guy. He's.

Steve

Like, screw that guy, yeah, whatever. And so, you know, the knock at the door, and he comes answering it like he's mad, like he thinks it's Max, but it's Buck Henry again, it's the IRS agent. And he's like, Mr. John Gustafson, like, I must insist that you come to my office to me, or come with me to my office, whatever. And he's got the IRS badge, so he has to go with him. And, uh, when do we— kind of time passes, we get to the evening. We don't see what John had to deal with at the IRS office or anything, but he gets back via taxi. Yeah. Um, because he went with the, the agent. And, uh, when he gets home, there's somebody in his house. There's sounds and there's like lights on, and he's kind of like, whoa, what's going on? And so he, he gets like a baseball bat and he's like sneaking through the house, and he like peeks into the kitchen and like a knife comes into view. And suddenly we're back in Shocktoberfest, except, except that it's Ariel. It's Ariel and she's cooking. She's making Szechuan stir-fry or something. It's got a big wok out and everything. So yeah, but yeah, so she's there to make dinner.

Nic

Sneaks into his place to make dinner, just like Jane Spencer in The Naked Gun, Priscilla Presley's character.

Steve

This woman has no boundaries.

Nic

She really does not. And she's been too creepy in everybody's house. Yeah. But so she's— and then we find out that John, he used to teach US history in high school.

Steve

Yeah. So they've got that kind of in common, the teacher connection. Right. Yeah.

Nic

Uh, his dad is kind of giving him a little talk, all right? A little another pep talk from Burgess Meredith. He is, he's great throughout this. Um, I almost wish he was one of the parents in, uh, Christmas Vacation. Like, oh, he could have added a little— I mean, they were, they were good, but I think he could replace the Mason Adams role and maybe like add a little more juice to it. Um, so, and he's just like, oh, let me tell you, son, uh, the first 90 years goes by pretty fast. Mount the woman, son.

Steve

And then, so then we see them, John and Ariel, on a date. He's riding on the back of her snowmobile. She's driving like a maniac on this thing, going super fast. Then they're like, uh, kind of on like a high perch, as if this is, uh, Breakdown again, and they're looking down over the shitty town. Uh, but they're on this high perch above the town looking down at Wabasha, and, uh, she like almost looks like she passes out or something. The way she falls, it looks like she's like having like a cardiac issue. But she falls to make a snow angel. So they both fall down and make snow angels, and it's very sweet. And then they go back to his house, and they're playing chess, I think, which he'd been doing by himself. So they're playing chess together, and they end up kissing. But then he kisses her, really. And then she says, it's getting late, it's time for bed. And she gets up to kind of like, you know, he assumes go, and he's like cursing himself.

Nic

He's like, goddamn it, John. He's like, how you fucked it up, man.

Steve

Screwed that up. So he goes, but instead of heading towards the front door, she's heading upstairs. And she's like, saddest time of the day.

Nic

And she goes and like locks the front door first.

Steve

That's right, she locks the front door, yeah, yeah. It's like, I'm gonna go to bed. And there's a great line in here of like, she's like, he's like, wait, wait, you're supposed to use protection now. Like, whatever. Like, I don't know. And she goes, John, when's the last time you had sex? And he's like, and he gives a date, like October, whatever, 1973 or something, whatever it was. Or, you know, 1978. Where she goes, yeah, I think we're all right. Like, it's like, all right, that's fair. You know, she's clearly menopausal. They're not worried about having a kid.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You know, they both had like probably one partner over decades and never had sex with anyone else. So like long before HIV like existed.

Nic

Right, exactly.

Steve

So I'm like, okay, go ahead. Like,.

Nic

Yeah, so they go and, uh, do the horizontal mambo thing there, right? And, um, and Max doesn't know this, that John and Ariel have seen each other.

Steve

Ariel said something to John about like, basically she's interested in John, Max is just a friend. Like, I'm interested in you, John, Max is just a friend. So there's that part of it, but Max doesn't know this. Max, you know, he's hoping that there's more there, but he's like definitely older than Jack Lemmon. They're both significantly older than Ann-Margret, so it's like, you know, there's an age thing that already she's going for the older guy just by going for Jack Lemmon.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And then let's also face it, just the way they look, Walter Matthau does look like a melting candle. So it's a little, you know, you can see why maybe not her first choice. But he like picks like some purple, I don't know, he's got like, they look like lavender maybe or something, some kind of flower for her. And he's gonna go head across the street to her house in the morning, but then she comes out of John's house and is just very cheery and very, oh, Max, are those for me? Like, oh, thank you so much. And he's like, yeah. I'm there for you, you know, whatever. And she just heads on home and he is fucking pissed. Yeah, so pissed.

Nic

John, uh, John is doing his like, I just got laid kind of dancing around the kitchen, which I always like to see.

Steve

Tom Cruise in Risky Business.

Nic

Yeah, but in a real like very risky business, risk of a hip dislocation business. Exactly. Um, very old guy the way that he's moving, but that's, that's really funny.

Steve

And they made a big deal about him not being able to eat spicy food, uh, throughout the thing, but she made like Szechuan And now he's dumping Tabasco all over his eggs in the morning like he's a young man again. He can eat spicy food. All it takes is one getting laid.

Nic

All you gotta do is fuck once, then you can shit blood and there's no consequence. Goddamn. Um, so, uh, and, and Max sees— does Max see the, the fishing pole?

Steve

Well, no, he—.

Nic

Or no, he doesn't know about it.

Steve

No, no, he doesn't know about that. He's just in his ice fishing shanty getting drunk and kind of like, whatever.

Nic

Uh, yeah, he's fucking pissed. Exactly. And.

Steve

But then John sees the fishing pole and like re— like he fixes it basically. That's right. And does, and does go to give it back. Yeah.

Nic

Um, so, so John is in his shanty and just, you know, minding his own business, and all of a sudden, boom, like it gets rocked from the side. He's like, what the hell? I'm moving. Yeah. And we see that Max is just like pushing it with his car, shoving it around. One great thing about ice shanties, like if you're mad at a friend, you can just kind of like bump their And he pushes it so far out that it goes to like the thin part of the ice and his shanty falls.

Steve

Like half sinks, basically. And John's able to like jump out at the last minute.

Nic

And thank you for not doing like a trapped under the ice scene here or anything that extreme. Like even the beginning of, um, uh, It's a Wonderful Life where it's flashing back to his brother doing this shovel slide into the thing, which looks fun. It's a great shot. Fucking so fun. Um, so yeah, he falls in the ice and then they have a fight which is just 100% slips and falls.

Steve

Like, there's no close-up punch.

Nic

It's just like, I'm gonna swing and my— the force of my swing will take me down to my ass.

Steve

And I love Pops shows up and is like, hey, you two! And Max turns and goes, oh, oh, Mr. Gustafson! Like, he's still like intimidated by, you know, the, the old— the man next door.

Nic

Yeah, he's still an authority figure to him. And as they're fighting, they're kind of talking about like stolen women of the past between the two of them. And I think it turns out that— is it Max's wife?

Steve

Well, so Max was in love with a girl, and, and John stole her from him, according to Max, and then married her. And that's Mel's mother. And they were together for 20 years or whatever. And then, uh, and then also Max married a woman named Amy, who was the love of his life. And so it's sort of like John's sort of like, look, it all worked out for everybody. And Max is like, no, you still fucking stole a girl from me. Like, fuck you, you know, kind of thing. But so they're going all this kind of back and forth stuff. And this is after this fight, John kind of realizes like maybe Max is right. Like he's got like this look of realization on his face or kind of like, all right, maybe I did, you know, kind of whatever. And so that night, Ariel comes over to John's and has brought a painting, a really beautiful painting to give to him. And he basically says like, I can't accept it. Like, like you're too young for me, or I'm too old for you. This isn't gonna work. I like being alone. I don't like doing stuff. Mm-hmm. I don't think we should see each other anymore. And she's fucking heartbroken. Like, she's not happy about this at all, but she's also like pissed at him. Like, what the fuck, man? Like, you bang me? Like, you're the first person I've had sex with since my husband passed years ago, and now you're just gonna be like, fuck off? Like, you're a horrible person.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Uh, and, and he, um, and John is in his own head too, because Max had said like kind of right at the end of the fight, like, how are you gonna support her when the IRS takes your house away? So he's just like, he thinks he's a piece of shit. Like, my house is getting taken away, I can't catch any fish, My shanty is at the bottom of the sea now.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Yeah, so Ariel runs away and drops the painting, which sucks.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So now we're kind of moving forward in time, right? We're, we're at Christmastime, and during the, the time that's elapsed, like, Max and Ariel have been hanging out a lot more. John's been alone, whatever. He's got a box with his tax returns and everything in it, and it takes off. So he's going to meet this guy, obviously.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And, uh, Max and Ariel just snowboarding it or snowmobiling it up.

Steve

Yeah, I mean, it looks dangerous the way— as fast as he's going. Yeah, Matthau's a tall guy, like he could easily fall.

Nic

I don't trust— I don't trust any of that.

Steve

Um, but now it's like it's actually Christmas Eve, and so Mel comes over, uh, Daryl Hannah comes over to John's house, and Jacob goes over to Max's or whatever. And, um, oh, there's a thing at one point in here John had told Jacob that Mike and Mel were gonna get divorced and that basically Jacob, like, you should try to go for Mel. Like, it's interesting.

Nic

John is very pro. As much as he hates Max, he loves Jake. He's very good to him.

Steve

He calls him Jakey all the time. He says something about like, don't tell your pop, don't tell your dad about this. And Jake's like, well, you know, put a lawn sign in your lawn and I won't. And he goes, I'd be honored to. Like, he would've done it anyway. Clearly John, very, very big fan of Jacob. So he had mentioned that, and then— but then when Mel shows up with the daughter, the granddaughter of John, on Christmas Eve, here's Mike. The husband is here too. It's Christopher McDonald, Shooter McGavin. I had completely forgotten he was in this movie. When he showed up, I literally wrote my note, Chris McDonald. Like, this is a Christopher McDonald stan podcast. Like, yes, I love Christopher McDonald. Um, I think we even shamed Christopher McDonald's mom for not loving him as much as we do, uh, in a previous episode. Um, but yeah.

Nic

This role, and it's so perfect. Like you said, every Everyone in this movie matters. Like, all the casting decisions are people that have done much bigger things elsewhere. And, uh, he is perfect. He's perfect as Marmee.

Steve

Yeah, man. And he makes fun of when Jacob does show up then, because now Jacob's coming over to like bring flowers or something, or chocolates, I don't remember what it was, to Mel to try and like woo her a little bit. And now— but now Mike's there, and he didn't expect that, obviously. And so— but Mike— these people obviously all grew up together. Yeah, like Mike and Mel and Jacob all knew each other growing up, because he calls him like— he makes short jokes basically, or calls him Shrimpy or something. I don't know exactly, but like he makes little jokes about Jacob being short and not being as tall as he is. And here's the problem that Jacob has. Mel is also very tall. Darryl Hannah's a very tall guy.

Nic

I know, that's a tough pull. If you're Kevin Pollak, good for you, man, if you can pull that off. And his plan is that he comes over there and he's got broccoli instead of mistletoe. That's what it was. He's like, we didn't have any mistletoe, so I brought— so he comes over before he sees Mike and he goes up to Mel. He's like, hey, here's the mistletoe. How about a kiss? And then she's like, oh, well, I don't want— and then he sees Mike over there and very good recovery. Like, how about you, big guy?

Steve

Come on. Yeah, exactly.

Nic

Good Paulie there. Very nice Paulie.

Steve

Good stuff. Um, but basically John is like kind of pissed that Mel and Mike are together, so he's gone. He said, I'm gonna take a walk, I'm gonna go to Slippery's— apparently the name of their little dive bar in town or near their neighborhood. And so he does. And so then when Jacob goes back over to his dad's house, he goes like, uh, Mike was there. Like, oh, Mike and Mel are back together, you know, kind of thing. And he goes, yeah, Dad, like, you gotta, you gotta squash this. You gotta go talk to John. This is crazy. Like, he went down to Slippery's. Like, you should go talk to You know, all this kind of stuff. And now it's like, in Max's mind, he's like— he says something about like, I won, like, she chose me, or something. I don't know if he says it later, but he's thinking it at least. Yeah. Like, you know, is it like he's got Ariel, so there's no reason to be mad? It's sort of like it evened it out.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Right? 50-Something years ago, John stole a girl from me, and now I've won this one. So, hey, we're cool now, is sort of his thing. And so they go— he goes into the bar, he meets up with John down at the bar, and he apologizes, and he says that he's sorry. And he thinks— but he thinks it's about the fishing rod.

Nic

Yes,.

Steve

And the shanty and like that stuff. And John's like, it has got nothing to do with any of that shit. You don't get it. Like, it's about her. Uh, and you know, Max said, well, she chose me. Like, anybody who says otherwise is an idiot, you know, kind of thing. And it's like, I mean, yeah, eventually, but it's like, she chose John. John had to—.

Nic

She chose you after John removed his name from consideration.

Steve

Exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Um, so yeah.

Nic

Um, so as, as they're, uh Uh, well, John goes to leave. John goes to leave, right? And he's walking home in the snow and starts to have a heart attack.

Steve

That cardiac that he wished for in the opening scene.

Nic

Exactly. Um, and Max, you know, comes across him there and is able to like go to a house nearby and get help and gets him taken to the— taken to the hospital.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

Um, so we're at the hospital now. Max is going to visit John.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he's like, oh, you know, I'm here to see John Gustafson. Can you tell me where he is? And she says, are you friend or family? And then we get like this long, very long pause. But, you know, and I was like, you know what's coming. But it was just played so well that I was like, ah, that touched me a little bit, the way that he does finally go, friend.

Steve

And Matthau, again, the facial acting, like just the transition. You can see the wheel turning in his head, and he's in that moment coming to grips with what John actually does mean to him, 'cause now he could lose him, right? That was the thing, is John was always next door, and he was, as far as Max is concerned— Max is older, for one thing. He's a couple years older. Older. So he was gonna always be there. And, and so the idea that he might have to go back home and there's no John Gustafson next door, like, that's a problem. Yeah, for Max Goldman. He doesn't like that. So he has this moment of realization. It kind of sweeps over his face to where we can all see it, and he finally does say, oh, friend, you know, like, whatever. But it's really cute, and it's a really good, like, moment for, for the actor as well.

Nic

Yeah, definitely. Um, and, and Ariel has shown up too at the hospital.

Steve

Well, Max goes Oh, that's right. Max goes to her house to let her know, like, hey, John's in the hospital. Like, you need to come check. Because he knows what actually went down. Like, he gets it now. He understands, like, what, you know, really happened and that he needs to make sure that, like, she's aware. Like, he can't hide this from her. He needs to, like, make sure that if that's what's supposed to happen, that's what's gonna happen, like, sort of thing. And here's the thing, I also get the idea that I don't think Ariel and Max are, like, banging. Like, I don't think she— I think she's still kind of, you know, treating him like a friend. He maybe wants more, but you don't get the sense that they're really together together. They're just spending a lot of time together. And so he does go get Ariel and she comes to the bedside and they have, you know, a moment, John and Ariel, and kind of like, you know, you don't really want to be alone. Nobody really wants to be alone. Like, this is stupid. Like, we shouldn't— we, you know, we shouldn't just be alone. Let's be alone together or whatever kind of thing. And then when— then Max gets back to the house, to the houses, and the IRS is there trying to like take everything. Yeah. And he's always saying like, like, hey, you know, he's in the hospital. Like, you can't— you can't take him. Like, you gotta— you gotta give him time. Like, whatever, all this stuff. Stuff. And the IRS guy, Buck Henry, is like, I don't care. Like, this is— we're gonna auction the house. Like, he's gonna pay because it's like a $57,000 bill or something.

Nic

Uh, CPA corner right here.

Steve

All right, here we go.

Nic

So, um, first of all, that's not how IRS works, right?

Steve

I love that, dude.

Nic

Um, but what the agent says— yeah, because, because we know that John was a lifelong school teacher, right? Right. Typically you're a W-2 employee, you're getting your taxes with It would be very unlikely for a schoolteacher to, like, have this big tax deficit accumulating or whatever. And the way that they explain it is they say, oh, well, for 20 years you had union health benefits, or your wife had union health benefits that should have been subject to tax because you were also covered by your employee. Also, I don't know, I haven't looked into what it was in '93, but I've never fucking heard anything like that.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

But it's subject to tax, and the tax on it is $13,000. Right. But because of interest, penalties, all that shit, it, it's $57,000, which is realistic. Okay, when you see these ads on TV that are like, we'll turn your tax debt— we had a client with a $100,000 tax debt and we turned it into $5,000. For, for the most part, your actual tax never ever goes down. What goes down is the penalty and interest and stuff like that. Okay, so, but this is how fucking kind of like thuggish the IRS can be. I mean, because they're making up what the penalty and interest— Yeah, whatever they want it to be, really. It has nothing to do with anything except That it's punitive. So it's fucking crazy that someone can end up in this situation. I think it's a little. I was I was dying for them to explain how he was getting his house taken by the IRS, and I have to say I'm left unsatisfied by this. But that's because this is my profession. It doesn't seem doesn't seem right.

Steve

Christopher McDonald tying in CPA conversation: better or worse tax situation? This or Happy Gilmore for realism? Um, Gilmore. The big problem was that the dad apparently built the house, so it wasn't even like there was a mortgage.

Nic

Yeah, what did Happy Gilmore was crazy? Like, she didn't pay tax for twenty years.

Steve

Grandma was living.

Nic

Off probably Social Security, which is not taxable if that's your only income. Yeah, we went through the— I, dude, I went for Happy Gilmore because they mentioned years. Oh yeah, I went through the tax table for like different years and was trying to figure how this was even possible. So yeah, this is better than Happy Gilmore, but still bad. So as far as fake tax crises in Christopher McDonald movies, this is the best one.

Steve

I hope we find a third. I want to find a third movie with Christopher McDonald in it where the— a major portion of the plot is a tax crisis. Please, somewhere, if anybody knows, email theshow@2dads1movie.com. Let us know if there's another one of these movies. We'll fit it in. We'll figure out how. Um,.

Nic

Uh, so, so Max does say to that, the IRS guy, I think this is where he says, uh, do the world a favor and pull your lip over your head and swallow.

Steve

So good. But basically, like, Max is like going to bat for John here. He's like trying to get this figured out. And eventually, uh, he, he barricades the door to John's house. House with like whatever. And we had seen John, I think we mentioned this earlier, he was spraying water on the snow that's up on the roof so that it'll harden so that any, any rattling or like whatever will have it all fall down. Right. That's basically the idea, right? And, uh, and even he doesn't do it right, and even Max tells him like, oh, you got to use hot water, moron, you know, or whatever. And so he does— has done this to the, the, the space above John's door because now the two, the moving guys are like, well, it's barricaded, we're not gonna— you take this down, fine, we're leaving. Yeah. The IRS guy gets a hammer and tries to undo, and it's like, no, way too many boards, way too many nails. That's gonna be really hard to do. But this is when Jacob then shows up, and he apparently as mayor has been able to somehow get them to not be able to touch the house for 30 days.

Nic

Again, something outside of mayor's jurisdiction, most likely. Although if the, the party in charge— like, typically it's the sheriff's department that does the evictions. Oh,.

Steve

Okay, that's fair. Yeah, yeah.

Nic

So the mayor might have some sway over that. But, um, but yeah, so he's pulled some strings and, you know, You're good for at least 30 days now.

Steve

You gotta stop, you know, kind of thing. But then he still is able to get the snowball falls on Buck Henry, and we get to laugh at him, and that's the end there. And this is like Mel and Max and Jacob all kind of working together. And it's clear that Max is like, because of John's health scare, Max is like starting to come around for sure. And then they do the like redirect cut, right? So we cut from that to a church with a bunch of people in black and Mel and Jacob chatting. And it's like, oh fuck, did John die? Like, and that's what we're supposed to think. Totally. Did John die?

Nic

'Cause they're upset. And like you said, the way that it's shot, it's definitely meant to misdirect. Correct.

Steve

But it is not— he did not die. I don't know how much time has passed. A fair amount has because Mel and, uh, Jacob are talking and Mel's divorce has not only actually happened, but it's been finalized. So it's like—.

Nic

Also unrealistic. It must have been a full year.

Steve

I think it is a full year. I think it is. I think it is a full year later that John and Ariel dated for a while because now they're getting married. I think it is a full year later. So that's— and gave enough time. Now Jacob's still mayor, but, but, you know, because that's probably a 4-year term. And then, you know, now Mel is fully divorced. The two of them are kind of there together, and we get this idea that, hey, maybe they are going to explore or potentially together. Max is the best man. We even get a little redirect where Jacob shows up and asks his dad, are you nervous? And he goes, I'm not nervous, the groom is nervous. Yeah. And then so it's like, oh, is Max? No, no, it's John. Like, who's, you know? So they get married, it's very sweet. As they go to drive away, or no, before they go to drive away, Max tells John that his wedding gift to him is that somehow we, I think he's like him and Jacob, but like we were able to get them to forgive, You know, throw away all the fees and interest.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And I paid your original $13,000 bill. You're good. Like, they're not gonna take your house. Like, you're solid. That's an incredible gift, right? Oh yeah. $13 grand in 1993. Now we don't know what, I think, oh no, he said he was a, oh my gosh, what did Max say? He said at one point what he was before. Oh yeah, he was like a TV repairman.

Nic

Oh, he fixed TVs. Yeah.

Steve

I don't know how.

Nic

So when Matthew Lillard gets hit in the face with a TV, can you get the blood and hair outta this thing?

Steve

I love he says he can fix hers at one point when she's got a fishbowl, like, it's all gutted out and it's a fishbowl. I can fix it for you. And it's like, no, you can't. Well, you could get a new one, but like, that's not— anyway, so.

Nic

He's, uh, yeah, so he gives him, gives him the deed. And yeah, I was too, like, with the amount of money, like, how are they taking their house over that much? But at that time, I mean, those probably were less than $100,000 houses for sure. A little tiny town in Minnesota, $57,000 kind of just covers your debt. Like, sell the house and—.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Um, so yeah, he gives him the deed to the house and, hey, here's your wedding gift. And, uh, you know,.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah, I think he's still calling him a moron or something. Yeah, they're still yelling at each other, of course, a little bit. But then they get into the car and both, uh, Ariel and John smell, you know, what is that, whatever. And sure enough, there's, there's a fish and he like hangs it out the window and throws it. And, and that's, I believe, how, how the movie ends.

Nic

Yeah, we've got Mel and, uh, Mel and Jacob are together and kind of—.

Steve

I mean, there's certainly— I think they're hinting at a potential, right? Because earlier that day they were like, oh, the divorce is final or whatever, you know, kind of thing. So it looks like they're gonna maybe see about dating or something, but they don't— we don't get that like locked in, I don't think.

Nic

Yeah, um, well, maybe I was more optimistic in my notes. I wrote down Kevin Pollak getting his Kevin Pole licked.

Steve

Hey, that did not happen on screen, that's for sure.

Nic

Uh, that's the director's cut.

Steve

That's the director's cut.

Nic

Um, but yeah, so we got, we got a happy ending there. Max, he's still got his friend. And it's funny that, you know, as much as Max was upset when John was in the hospital, he was gonna lose him, he also would have been upset if John lost his house and had to get evicted. Yep. Like, he needed him there. So, uh, so yeah, very sweet movie. And, uh, and then at the end, the outtakes, the Burgess Meredith stuff is very funny.

Steve

Very funny.

Nic

It's a movie that's worth watching through the credits.

Steve

The credits are good. There's a, there's a handful of good Lemmon and Matthau moments. There's a lot of great Burgess Meredith, that, that, uh, Chuck's taking the one-eyed whatever to the optometrist kind of thing. Like, oh, one of the optometrists, he's got like 7 or 8 versions of those, much dirtier in general, but very funny. My favorite one though, actually, His— the shot at the very ending shot of the movie after the car drives away is, is Max sort of like watching them go. And I think he goes like, puch, or something like that, right? And then so there's that moment, but then Jack Lemmon steps into screen and into the frame and goes, who just, who just left?

Nic

Yes,.

Steve

It's just like very—.

Nic

That was really good. And you could— the way that Matthau reacted, he legitimately was cracked up by that. He was like, that's a good bit.

Steve

That's a good bit.

Nic

And, uh, goddamn. So that is, uh, that's Grumpy Old Men.

Steve

Yeah, so it was your first time, but you brought it to the pod. So give us your rating, man. What's your take on Grumpy Old Men?

Nic

You know, this does make me want to go watch The Odd Couple and stuff. And you wonder, knowing the history that these 2 have of just like performing together over the years,.

Steve

Yeah,.

Nic

Were there little bits of this dynamic that were kind of real? You know, I'm sure that they were great friends and stuff, but are there certain things where it's like, dude, Matthau pisses me off so much, you know? Um, but it's a movie that I would call it kind of like— it's a PG movie, right? Yes, it is.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

So it's got a lighter touch. Yeah. You know, and the comedy's a little lighter, and it's— and it's— but exploring, um, characters of this age, yeah, really never happened where, where you cared about like what happened. You can have a movie where it's about some creepy old lady that, you know, murders people or whatever, right? But to care about the lives of these people and to understand that like once you get into this last act of your life. Like, there's still life to be lived and there's still adventure to be had and friends to make. And, and all this kind of stuff was interesting because at this time, I don't know what was giving you that perspective. The Golden Girls maybe, but that was it. Um, actually, no, I don't need to qualify that. The Golden Girls is fucking very well written and really funny. Um, I like these guys a lot.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Uh, all the cast— like, there's no one in the cast that I have an issue with. I I could have taken a little more Ossie Davis.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

They very easily could have put like Piven as Kevin Pollak and it would have been worse. So I, yeah, I like all the choices here. I wasn't laughing my ass off during the movie, but it is a movie when I'm thinking about something that's appropriate for a broad audience. If you're gonna throw something on, you know, holiday time, you got family around, this is a pretty good one. I enjoyed Grumpy Old Man. I'm gonna give it a 3.5 out of 5. I think it's enjoyable, it's well performed. I don't know what to pick apart about this other than that it maybe wasn't enough as far as like being funny enough or interesting or dramatic enough, but for what it's trying to be, it does a great job. So I'm a 3.5 out of 5 on Grumpy Old Man.

Steve

Very nice. Yeah, um, I similarly very much enjoyed it. It was— for me, there was nostalgic, you know, parts to it for sure. I mean, I didn't remember all the different sort of like jokes and elements. Obviously, it's been so long since I've seen it, but there was a handful of stuff like, honestly, like Walter Matthau saying, eat my shorts, is like stuck in my head for ages. And, you know, the, the Ann-Margret on the snowmobile was something I just remember a lot, you know, that kind of stuff. And, and so it really was a lot of fun to go back and revisit this one and watch it again. You know, the reality of it though is that it's— it is a very light touch. Um, you know, it's not— not a lot happens. I mean, it is, it is a romantic comedy. You don't see a lot of romantic comedies again with like the, the principals being in their 50s and 60s. I mean, Matthau himself, even though he's the third wheel in the romance, was like in his 70s when he made this. And so yeah, it was— it's neat that that's the case. A lot of funny stuff in it, but it's like, again, I think I didn't laugh out loud. I chuckled through almost the entire movie. Yeah, which is great. It's an enjoyable thing. But like, that's also like, I can't put it up there with like comedies that I really, really, for sure, you know, found hilarious. So I'm pretty much like just on what I would call like just the side of thumbs up on this one. I'm a 3 out of 5 on Grumpy Old Men. Very enjoyable, worth watching. If it's not something that like, you know, you have nostalgia for or we piqued your interest with this, like don't bother. It's definitely not a must-see or anything like that, but a nice solid. And again, you're right, family-friendly movie that does qualify as a Thanksgiving movie given that, you know, the plot, it covers all of the kind of fall and winter, you know, in this town in Minnesota. But a big part of the way the plot turns is Thanksgiving night. Yeah. Even though the scene is not very long, So I think it definitely qualifies in that sense. And, and yeah, so 3 out of 5 for me. So that makes us 6.5, 6.5 out of 10 from the 2 dads on Grumpy Old Men.

Nic

We're right in line with IMDb and all that stuff.

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

All right. So we're going to continue on with Feast Mode. We're doing another Thanksgiving picture next week and we are getting a character, an actor I don't believe we've had yet. And then several we have, but a very important In some ways, actor for the '90s, uh, Mr. Pauly Shore is somebody that we have not seen yet. Uh, and so we are going to go to— I think it was like '94 or '95, is that— I'm not sure exactly right. Um, and he is going to attend, go to a Thanksgiving break. He's a— Mr. Shore plays, uh, the, the RA of a college dorm, and there is a girl there that he's friends with who convinces him to go back home to Kansas, I believe, with her for Thanksgiving break because she doesn't want to tell her parents that— I don't know, she got a tattoo or some shit. I don't remember what it was. She's got a boyfriend back there that like is expecting her to like be a little housewife farm girl, and she doesn't want to do that. She wants to be a big city LA girl. Uh, it's, uh, Pauly Shore and Carla Gugino. The movie is Son-in-Law. Um, another one I have not seen this in quite a long time, but I remember watching this a ton in like high school and college. I really enjoyed it. Uh, the single best needle drop of Little Miss Can't Be Wrong by the Spin Doctors in any movie is in this movie. Carla Gugino rolling around on roller skates or rollerblades, whatever it is, works for me every time. She's gorgeous. Uh, we get, uh, uh, Tiffany Thiessen is in this. There's just so many great people in this movie, uh, and it's gonna be very, very much enjoyable, I hope. Again, I haven't seen it in a while. Uh, have you ever seen Son-in-Law?

Nic

Like— Oh, we— Son-in-Law is kind of a rotation film at my house recently. Yeah, and my daughter who's 14 loves Pauly Shore stuff. She thinks It's so funny. The line, the grew the dew, drank some brew, guzzled some brew. Like the shit that he says. We just watched Encino Man, which I don't know if this qualifies as an IRS situation when he says, don't tax my gig so hardcore, Cruster. I don't know if that counts, but no Christopher McDonald though. Son-in-law is fantastic. I can't wait to watch it like through an analytical. Cool lens, but a lot of fun. I can't wait, dude. This is, this is going to be like the young person version. You know, this is like we did old people stuff, like stereotypical old people in the early '90s. Now we're doing stereotypical college student age kids in the '90s. Perfect. Very nice.

Steve

Next week we'll watch Son-in-Law and munch on some grindage. That's a wrap. If you like what you hear, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a 5-star review. It helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website at twodads1movie.com. That's the number 2 and the number 1. There you can explore the movies we've covered, even get sneak previews of upcoming episodes. Once again, this has been Grumpy Old Men, another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks, everyone.