Transcript

Intro Clip

You could call the police. I know your every thought, Laura. You're wondering if they can protect you. Who knows? They may issue an order instructing me to stay away from my own wife. Nothing can keep me away. I love you, Laura. Mm-hmm. I can't live without you. And I won't let you live without me. Think carefully. Eskimo, please hurry, please. This is our last chance. Yes, this is Sarah Waters at 408 Tremont. Take that chance. Come quickly. I've just killed an intruder.

Steve

It's Two Dads, One Movie. It's the podcast where two middle-aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the '80s and '90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Two Dads, One Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are continuing the Two Dads, Two Decades march through the '90s at this point, uh, with 1991's Sleeping with the Enemy starring Julia Roberts. And, uh, Nic, this was your pick, so why don't you start by letting us know kind of your history of Sleeping with the Enemy and maybe why you chose it for 1991?

Nic

Yeah, I mean, doing Two Dads, Two Decades here, I, I know we've already hit a few of the great movies from 1991, I think, like Terminator 2, Point Break, like certain things that I definitely would have picked in this spot.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And, uh, and one of the reasons I picked this one is that we haven't seen Julia Roberts. I think this is a good spot to get her in.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And this is a bit of like an off-the-beaten-path pick if you're deciding on 1991 movies to talk about in a podcast.

Steve

Fair.

Nic

Um, it is like a good idea. It's a good like kind of thriller feel, and I want to see how it holds up. Is it going to be a Pacific Heights or is it going to be a Cape beer, right? Um, and I, I hadn't seen it in a while, and I thought it would be fun to revisit this one and see, like, all right, under the lens of movie analysis, like, what do we think of this one? So, uh, yeah, I mean, no particular reason, but, uh, I think, uh, just, you know, throwing a little curveball in the mix here.

Steve

I like it. The Julia Roberts call-out is good. Like, certainly for the era that we're covering, she's a major, major star of the time, so good to finally get a Julia Roberts movie under our belts. Um, I will say this is, I think, the fourth specifically thriller that you've brought to the table to the podcast that I had not yet seen. Okay. Which is an interesting, just that that's happened that way.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But I had, before you brought them to us here, I had never seen Pacific Heights, The River Wild, or Cape Fear. And so, and now this. And so it'll be interesting to see how it lines up because obviously like Cape Fear and The River Wild were both like spectacular really. Yeah. You know, I mean, Cape Fear even more so, but both really good movies. And we all know how I feel about Pacific Heights. Like one of my least favorite movies I've ever seen. So hopefully Sleeping with the Enemy Enemy lands much closer to Cape Fear and the River Wild than Pacific Heights. The only thing I knew about Sleeping with the Enemy going in, we actually mentioned this and I think I mentioned it last week at the end of the podcast, but when we did Home Alone, we talked about how insane it was that Home Alone was the number one movie at the box office for 16 straight weeks, starting in November of 1990 into February of 1991. And this was the movie that finally toppled Home Alone. So crazy. The week that Sleeping with the Enemy debuted, it debuted at number one at the box office and something really dumb. I don't remember what was number two and then Home Alone was still third. So in its 17th week of release, Home Alone was still the third most popular movie in the box office. But this one did knock it off the throne.

Nic

So I think, you know, we'll learn as we watch a little more of this movie is that, you know, Laura, Julia Roberts' character might have benefited from a little of Kevin McCallister's tactics.

Steve

I think so. You know, there's definitely an influence. I found an even earlier influence. We'll get to that after the facts. First, we're going to go to the facts on Sleeping with the Enemy. All right. The movie Sleeping with the Enemy was released on February 8th, 1991, with an R rating. It runs for 99 minutes, was directed by Joseph Rubin and written by Ronald Bass from the novel by Nancy Price. It stars Julia Roberts, Patrick Bergen, and Kevin Anderson. On Rotten Tomatoes, 24% fresh. Woof. Not a rousing endorsement to start. On IMDb, a 6.3, which is also not the worst we've seen. Like, I think Halloween III: Season of the Witch was like in the 5s. Yeah. But 6.3 is not good. And we get a pair of thumbs down from Siskel and Ebert. Not the most auspicious start. This is one of the reasons that especially with movies I haven't seen before, I prepare these fact sheets after watching the movie because I don't want to be influenced by what I see here. It was nominated for 4 awards at the 1992 Saturn Awards, which is cool. Real awards. Did not win any of them. I like the Saturns. They're obviously a genre award. They're off the beaten path. But I think of the genre award sort of category or, you know, that grouping, I think this and the Fangoria Chainsaw Awards, those are the 2 that I really take seriously. I think those are both very good. It was nominated for, did not win any of these, nominated for Best Horror Picture, nominated for Best Actress for Julia Roberts, and for Best Supporting Actor for what's his name, Patrick Bergen, who played Martin, and which is an interesting take. And then also nominated for Best Music, which is something that we will get into right off the bat. I see you're tickled by that Bergen nomination there.

Nic

Oh boy, he's gotta know somebody on the committee.

Steve

The bar is not in the same place at the Saturns that it is at the BAFTAs, the Oscars, the Golden Globes, the SAG Awards, etc.

Nic

All right, I'll do a full audit after this.

Steve

Fair enough. Um, was it a success though? Holy shit, on a $19 million budget, this movie pulled in $175 million at the box office. Uh, more than 9 times what it cost to make. I think, you know, honestly, I'm sure moviegoing audiences had a little family, family film fatigue at that point with Home Alone dominating things for so long. Uh, Julia Roberts, obviously massive draw in 1991. This is really sort of like the, the peak of maybe the first wave of her popularity, kind of post-Pretty Woman into this era, right? You know, where she was really big and then she would really recur again in the early 2000s. But yeah, like, so huge success at the box office, but critically not particularly well liked by any of the measures that we look at here.

Nic

Yes. And I mean, this is true of a lot of movies where it's like fun to watch doesn't translate to Gene Siskel having good notes on it, you know?

Steve

Well, Gene in particular is a goddamn curmudgeon, that's for sure. But, Uh, all right, let's kick it off. Nic, this was your pick, you brought to the table, therefore I must ask you to begin the analysis. Where does Sleeping with the Enemy start?

Nic

Okay, so I think we get like a text-only intro and it is so boring. I mean, it's not giving you anything right at the beginning of the film.

Steve

Um, well, except for the music.

Nic

The music, which—.

Steve

I mean, like, did you have any— because like, I have thoughts.

Nic

Yeah, let's go, let's go.

Steve

So I was not thinking about this in this context initially, but this music to me is incredibly Home Alone coded. This sound, I thought this was a Christmas movie. Like I really thought, 'cause I've never seen it. So I thought, oh, when this opens up, it's gonna be a domestic scene at Christmas time. Right? It's really quite the opposite. It's like summer in Cape Cod instead. But like, but I thought this sounded super tinkly piano, you know, ambiance kind of thing. And I thought like, holy shit, this is like, did they really think, hey, we're gonna knock this Home Alone movie off the box office there. We gotta redo the theme song.

Nic

[Speaker] You must be copying Home Alone.

Steve

Beat Home Alone. Exactly. Which is just like wild to me. But the music fucking stood out so crazy at the beginning.

Nic

Yeah, it, it's not super fitting and it doesn't make you feel like, ooh, this is going to be an exciting thriller. Like the beginning of Cape Fear, I think the music was just like blast your dick off at the, you know, it was intense from the very beginning, which I think is an extreme end of this.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

But this is the other end where it's just like, what is this going to be about?

Steve

It's also interesting that you bring that up because I know like we're taking forever to even get into Sleeping with the Enemy, but like Thinking about that opening of Cape Fear, and we talked about this when we did it on the podcast, like that was so like Hitchcock kind of oriented. It was clear that Scorsese was doing that intentionally. Whereas here it feels like if there was any thought that went into this music, it had nothing to do with the movie itself because it is not the theme of a thriller. Like the music doesn't sound like—.

Nic

I like this song. I'm going to put it in my movie.

Steve

Something like that. Or again, or, you know, whoever, I don't know who the composer was, but You know, he was nominated for Best Music Award at the Saturn Awards, I guess. But, but it's like, yeah, it really feels like, hey, you know what people really like in the theaters? That Home Alone sound.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Let's get that Home Alone sound for Sleeping with the Enemy.

Nic

Let's modify it. Let's Elfmanize it a little bit.

Steve

You know that movie where America's sweetheart kills a man at the end? Let's put the Home Alone music on that. Sorry, spoiler alert for the end of Sleeping with the Enemy. Okay. All right.

Nic

Sorry.

Steve

Let's, let's continue the actual opening of the movie. Okay.

Nic

So, so now we get the scenery, which is beautiful. Like there's this house that's kind of by itself on the beach in Cape Cod. I mean, just, this ultra-exclusive area.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And Laura, Julia Roberts, is out in the water digging for quahogs with the trowel. Looks like a perfect morning. Uh, there's way too many fucking seagulls around her. She is like crazy, just surrounded by seagulls. And my wife is like averse to birds, so every time there's like an intense bird situation— so if we're talking about like, uh, Hitchcock homages, maybe there's one from this movie.

Steve

Little Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with the umbrella, you know.

Nic

So, uh, as she's doing this, all of a sudden she's approached by a man who's her husband Martin, who, uh, immediately looks un— not credible. Like, he's got a mustache, he looks like the typical rich asshole creep. Yeah, they nailed kind of the look of him. So he like lurches up on her.

Steve

The crazy part is 35 years later, that is now the Gen Z mustache. Like, you would only see that mustache now on men under 30. Like, that's really the only place.

Nic

This is— it's so weird how mustache trends come and go, because like the first guys that started doing it 10 years ago were doing it because they're like, oh hey, look how fucking random is it that I have a mustache? And then over time, more and more people do it, and then it hits a critical mass.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And now it's just like, yes sir, I have a mustache, that's my regular face.

Steve

Oh, it's, it's the lumberjack beard trend, the exact same thing. And, and even I don't wear it as long as I used to because it's just, it gets crazy looking. Like, we don't need to look that wild. But anyway, but you're right, he, he looks, uh, uh, evil. Like, there's really no—.

Nic

He looks like he's not giving you a square deal. You know, like, you're not gonna get, uh, whatever rate he quotes you is not the best he can do, you know.

Steve

Um, this man is selling you undercoating, you're saying.

Nic

So, so, you know, we get to see she lives this beautiful lifestyle with her rich husband who's very kind of controlling and, uh, condescending and everything from the beginning. Yeah, they're getting dressed to go out to some kind of fancy dinner, and, uh, and he's just like, oh, that's a pretty dress.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he goes, yeah, I wouldn't have thought of it.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Just like, just he's digging, constantly digging at her self-esteem. And like all their interactions are kind of like that.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things I noticed, especially out on the beach when we started and he walks up to her, first of all, anybody who gets, who walks in a suit along the beach and then is somehow upset he's got sand on him is a psycho to begin with. Right. These two people have so much hair. And as a bald man, it is. I'm so jealous. But they're just a crazy amount of hair that they both have. And later on, we meet the other kind of third main character in this ton of hair. Yeah, ridiculous.

Nic

Yeah, it's crazy. Um, yeah, so they go to this party, they come back, and there's just a very like unsexy sex scene, you know, just a business-like— like, your job is you're my date, and then you're the person I fuck when we get back from the party.

Steve

And he puts burly hose on, which just looks like not sexy. I made a joke to my wife, it's like they're fucking to Wagner. Like, it's not— this isn't No, but like, this isn't Mozart. This isn't like pretty. It's not a piano sonata. Like, right, what is this? Is ridiculous.

Nic

Very, very like Patrick Bateman. Oh, very behavior. Yeah. And, and it's important to bring that up because this is like his theme song that he puts on when they're, when they're humping, you know. So he's got his own bad guy theme music ready.

Steve

Symphony Fantastique, I think, or something like that. Yeah.

Nic

And then it cuts to him, uh, on the Versa Climber.

Steve

Oh my God.

Nic

You know, just going crazy on it. So later in the movie, there's going to be a scene where he has to chase somebody up a mountain that has equally spaced ledges, and you're gonna think he won't be able to get up there, but this is showing you that he actually is able to do that.

Steve

Foreshadowing.

Nic

And then, you know, he's— so he's this like total Type A personality, like, I work out hard and I only sleep 4 hours a night and all this kind of shit. And he's going around the house and everything has to be perfect. The towels hanging in the bathroom are slightly uneven, and he goes and like, you know, so everything has to be under his control there.

Steve

Well, and he, when he sees the hand towels, he doesn't just fix them. He like goes to get her from what she's doing. She's like preparing dinner or something. I'm not even 100% sure, but wherever she is, she— he goes and gets her.

Nic

He doesn't just do it.

Steve

He goes and he walks in the bathroom, go, everything here where it should be. And it's like just the most ridiculous, you know? And then she notices and apologizes and is like freaking out about the hand towels. And it's just like, holy crap. Like, yeah, I mean, there's— there we— it's a little over— it's a little beaten over our heads or whatever, you know, about how controlling it is. But it also like needs to be like—.

Nic

Because they don't want to— like, for the movie to be that long.

Steve

No, it's got to be super quick. We got to get to where we're about to get to very quickly. And the movie is very efficient in this way. Again, it maybe comes off a little like, like, okay, holy shit, we get it. He's a controlling asshole. But like, we need that. I think the movie is very efficiently giving us just how controlling he is, especially when he then goes down. He sees somebody working on a boat kind of just down the beach from them a bit, and he goes down to say hi. And it's like somebody that he hasn't met before, but it's like a neighbor or somebody maybe renting up the beach a little ways. He's got a boat and there's a little chit-chat and there's a, you know, really important piece of exposition that gets dropped here, which is that Martin tells this person who's got the boat, uh, oh yeah, my wife hates boats because she, uh, almost drowned when she was a child, and she— so she never learned to swim. She hates the water, right? And it's a very important little piece of exposition. And I thought, okay, cool, they've planted a childhood trauma, they've planted like this skill that she doesn't have supposedly, right? Yeah. And I do love that the movie kind of subverted what my expectations were about how they would use that info. But like, right, it was good stuff.

Nic

Um, yeah, and I love the little detail here of that guy, uh, that he's the Mets team doctor.

Steve

Oh yeah, yeah, that's right.

Nic

So I like an alternate universe where like Darryl Strawberry is joining them for a barbecue or something like that. So, so one of the things I think that, that the guy with the boat mentioned that he knew, oh, Laura, oh, I talked to your wife, or I don't know if even he said something about admiring the house.

Steve

Yeah, he says he like admired the house.

Nic

Not even saying that he went in there. Right. So Martin comes home and he's fucking furious and he's yelling at Laura, basically accusing her of, oh, where did you fuck this guy? Yeah, in the house. Just being an insane person, like, and, you know, he's just throwing her around and hitting.

Steve

It's a real hard, right? Yep.

Nic

Uh, and he has, uh, he has pleated pants. Uh, once again, we get some strong pleats, the early '90s, man. Um, but yeah, he's just absolutely brutal to her, right? And, um, and the next morning he just goes to her and he's like, I'm sorry, we quarreled.

Steve

Oh my God, that was so crazy.

Nic

Like, cold.

Steve

Yeah. Before that happened too, though, in the morning she was like walking along the beach. And again, another thing I like, like there's a few of these things get planted and then when they get paid off, to me they were— it was not obvious how, why they were getting planted. In fact, I thought they had a different purpose, right? So this whole thing where she picks up these rocks and starts like she's throwing them at this lamppost and knocking the light bulbs out. To me, when I read that initially or watched, I was thinking to myself, oh, this is her. She has no control over anything. So this is just her like exerting some control over something like that's very relatable, very understandable. But of course, it's actually a further plant that she, that she needs to sort of put in. But yeah, when he says, I'm sorry we quarreled, like, obviously, first off, it's, it's, it's sort of an I'm sorry, but, right? It's not even a real I'm sorry to begin with. And then we quarreled is such passive voice. Oh my God.

Nic

That's some New York Times level.

Steve

Yes, exactly. I'm so sorry I beat you in the face with my hand would have been far more real. But obviously he's not sorry that he did that. He's sorry that a quarrel occurred.

Nic

Yeah. Right. It's, it's crazy. And then his, his amends that he makes is he gives her a gift, which is lingerie, which is a put this on so I can immediately start fucking you in a way that does not benefit you in any way.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And that shot, like, where she puts this on and then there's like the sex scene, I mean, it really just looks like hell for her. And like, I, I think they do a good job of, of kind of bringing that across. And we're still real early in the film here.

Steve

Yeah. And, you know, Julia Roberts, obviously, you Should go without saying, fantastic actress doing so much acting with her face without saying things, the way she's looking, the way that she moves her mouth before she speaks. There's always these little moments of, is she going to say something else? And then they're having dinner because that's one of the things that he said about, about, you know, after the quarrel or whatever, he's like, oh, you're going to use this to like ruin dinner because she's going to make some like lamb chops or something, right?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But she still ends up doing that. And, and while they're sitting out on the deck to eat, you know, he— what was it, uh, he said? Oh shoot, because the line was, he says, uh, like, you know, if I didn't know you better, I'd think you were trying to start a quarrel to get out of going on the boat tonight. But I think it was before that she said something about, well, that would have made you a monster. It was something about like, like, did you mean to do this? I mean, I wish I'd written it down now, but it's like, there was, there's a couple really— the first time we see any kind of pushback from her at all. Yeah. And his response is, it looks like you're trying to start a fight, right? Kind of thing. But like, that there is any push at all, and it's so interesting because we learn very quickly, like, she needed to got on that boat.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And yet it was like, this way she— by making him fight for a little—.

Nic

Yeah, she wants to—.

Steve

Can't be too easy. Yeah, exactly.

Nic

It is so like such a game of chess that she's playing here, and she's like 3 steps ahead of him minimum at this point.

Steve

Right, right.

Nic

And, uh, and he brings up, uh, something about dinner being late, you know.

Steve

Oh, right, right.

Nic

Oh, the last time dinner was late— like, basically, dinner better not be late.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

You know, that's unacceptable to him. And the last time dinner was late was because she snuck away to go to her mom's funeral.

Steve

That's right. Yeah.

Nic

So this is the level of psycho this guy is. So his issue was the dinner.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's ridiculous. Crazy.

Nic

Okay, so we end up out on the boat with the Mets doctor, and it is a beautiful night for a sail.

Steve

I don't know why anyone sails at night.

Nic

You can decide not to do it. You can just say, hey, you know what, this is the wrong night for this.

Steve

This is super, super rough water. Like, and you've got, you know, she's got a life vest on. But still, we are told, right? She can't swim. She's not just can't swim. She is terrified of water. Yeah, right. Of like any body of water. And yet here we are on one of the roughest, like, ocean journeys that I've seen since the fucking SS Minnow.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And, and on a tiny boat, like, like, what is this? Like maybe a 20-foot boat? It's like real small.

Nic

Yeah, it's definitely feeling every wave that's hitting. Absolutely.

Steve

Exactly. And so she is again, you know, more acting with her face. I don't think Julia Roberts says anything through this whole scene. But the jib comes loose and the guy whose boat it is tells Martin, "Hey, go up, grab that, you know, get the thing in there." And they're sort of struggling to try to get the line back into the stuff to make, to kind of get the sail back on. Yeah. And they're struggling and struggling. The boat's tipping real hard. I mean, Martin at one point falls into the ocean, but is able to sort of hold on, you know, to the line at the end of the boat and climb back on with the guy. And all this is happening and it's really done well. It's, we're being, we're seeing it from the back of the boat where the, steering wheel is. I don't know what to call it. Yeah, whatever. We're back there. That's where Julia Roberts has been. But we're seeing it kind of from her perspective this whole time until both men turn back towards where she has been sitting.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And see that she is not there. Right. And start yelling. And Martin is truly paNiced and screaming for Laura and looking around, seeing if there's any place she can see him or see her in the, in the water, you know. But it's like they've been so busy with the sail It would be impossible even to tell how far— yeah, with how long ago. Yeah, you know, it's like obviously she didn't make a ton of noise, so she just sort of got thrown overboard is their estimation.

Nic

Yeah, and Martin— actually, we were talking about what sound clip to use for the intro. The one that was the hardest to listen to was Martin screaming Laura like 20 times in a row when she fell off the boat.

Steve

That the audience already knows because they're listening. That was not the choice for the opening audio clip for sure.

Nic

Um, so again, you know, we're talking about like the things that this movie sets up. Like, to this point, you're like, what's her plan? Yeah, she's gonna throw him off.

Steve

She doesn't know how to swim, you know, all this stuff.

Nic

Like, you don't, you don't know what she's gonna do. And I think this part was, you know, pretty well done.

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

And, uh, you know, so they go searching for her, and then they're back by the house. They only find the life jacket. I think it's hooked onto a buoy somewhere.

Steve

I think it was just floating. The Coast Guard fishes it out of water. Um, and, and, uh, yeah, so, so that's— yeah, she's gone basically. Like, Martin, there's a, there's a funeral, uh, and, and, you know, he's standing there and look, I mean, he's obviously a horrible monster, but he does seem truly kind of broken up by the loss. Yeah, obviously the loss of the person that he can control, so it's not like—.

Nic

Right, so it's kind of like 3 things. It's like, okay, losing your wife, losing that person, but also losing my slave or whatever, and then potentially the release of the person who knows about all my crimes and all the awful shit that I am and shit that I've done. So if she is actually gone, like, his initial panic, right, right, was just like, my secrets are fucking floating away.

Steve

But now that he knows, now he's well convinced that she's dead, right? So that part goes away.

Nic

Now he's like, who's gonna straighten my towels out for me?

Steve

Uh, but instead of finding out what happens to Martin next, we get a flashback. Yes, just, just, you know, a few days apparently, according to kind of— I don't know how long it takes to have a funeral when you don't have to bury a body, you just put up a headstone, you know. Um, but yeah, sure enough, we see— we go back to that night out on the water And we see her swimming really quite well to a buoy, having taken the life jacket off. And that's when we can see that there's the line of lights along the shore.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And the two that she busted out are right in front of her house.

Nic

So she knows where to go.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Again, really smart and not what I would have thought, you know, from like when you're watching the movie, you're thinking like, oh, what's she doing with that?

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

Would not have thought of that.

Steve

Like I said, I read it just as, you know, a victim exerting control over one thing she can control, which is like, would be a totally reasonable character beat for this character. But instead it was part of a master plan that we will soon learn started months ago. Yes. Months and months ago.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

But we're going to get there. I love her voiceover in this moment. She says, that was the night that I died. And it's just a great— she gives us a little bit of backstory on what happened that night, but not that we need it. We get most of it visually. Probably, but still very cool.

Nic

Yeah. And, uh, so we got her now, uh, she's, she's on a bus. Yes, wearing a wig, wearing Uma Thurman's wig from Pulp Fiction, pretty much.

Steve

Roughly, pretty much. It's, it's a black bob with bangs. Yeah, basically. Um, and she's chatting with this woman who hands her an apple. And I got to be honest, wearing a black wig with a, you know, that's a bob with bangs and eating an apple, sure, coded Snow White. Like, I was like, this doesn't—.

Nic

She must have been snubbed for some Snow White role at some point. She's like, hey, put the shit in the movie, they'll know.

Steve

But she She goes in with this woman about way too much detail. She starts by telling the story about her friend. She was helping a friend and all this stuff, but the other one sees right through it. My first thought watching this was like, she's not safe. She should not be telling this to anyone. There should be no reference to like reality of any kind that is tied to Laura, whatever her last name was. Uh, and, and you know, she says her name is Sarah or whatever, but like, or maybe that's later, but the point is The one thing that she drops here that, you know, we have reason to believe is true, we later find out is, is that her mother is not dead. That she is going, where she is going, she's going because she'll be closer to her mother, which again seems, you gotta treat this like witness protection. Like, I feel like if you're gonna do this kind of thing, you gotta disappear disappear.

Nic

At least when the bus is still parked in the town you live in and hasn't fucking left yet.

Steve

If she's going from Cape Cod, I feel like Sedona's nice. Go to Santa Fe, New Mexico. Just be like so far away with nothing you have any connection to.

Nic

To, at least first.

Steve

Yeah, right, right, right.

Nic

Yeah, you, you got to treat yourself like a satellite signal you're trying to make sure the cops can't trace. You got to bounce yourself off a bunch of locations before you finally learn from Whistler and sneakers.

Steve

Come on.

Nic

So, so she ends up in this town in Iowa, which honestly looks pretty great.

Steve

It's very like—.

Nic

Yeah, it's beautiful. Totally like this Americana, the tree-lined streets and everything. She ends up getting this very beautiful, I'm sure it's one of those like, oh, the plumbing don't work and all that, but it's like—.

Steve

She has to clean it a lot.

Nic

Actually, you know, very nice, way too big of a house for a single person, but you know, that's what she got. And for $700 a month.

Steve

Beautiful.

Nic

It's not quite the deal Dalton got, but it's pretty good. This might be the second best real estate deal we've seen in our show so far.

Steve

I mean, it has to be.

Nic

I mean, other than buying that house in Pacific Heights for like $175K.

Steve

You beat me to it. That and however Martin Bishop got his loft in San Francisco with sneakers. I don't know what went down there. But yeah, so no, it's a beautiful little cottage, two-story old cottage kind of thing. It's not huge, but it is big for her to be alone.

Nic

And we get kind of a little montage of her enjoying her place, you know? And she's cleaning it up and she has her towels hanging and then she goes and intentionally makes them uneven. Fucks them all up.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to real quick just mention there was a point because I was watching my own, what do I think is foreshadowing and what do I think isn't? So like I said, I was surprised by that she could swim and the broken lights thing. I was like, oh cool. Basically in my mind, I'm not picking all these out as I go, which is great. I don't want a thriller to telegraph everything, right? But the second that she tells that woman on the bus that her mother is alive and she's going there, I'm like, well, that's how he's gonna find her. He's gonna find her. He's gonna find out her mom's not alive. And sure enough, that is eventually how it happens, which was kind of disappointing to me then. Yeah, because it's like, it's, it's planted so clearly that it's like, no, there could have been some— I mean, I know it's not the first step that like gets him whatever, but anyway, I was thinking like, in the, in that bus moment, I was like Oh, that mom, that's gonna be the fucking downfall. That's gonna be what gets her.

Nic

But that's right.

Steve

But yeah, absolutely.

Nic

So to anyone listening, break off all contact with your mother. It's the only way to save yourself.

Steve

Honest. Like I said, witness protection. If you, if you are actually trying to escape like a murderous abuser like this, like, go witness protection.

Nic

You gotta duck out at least for a little while because her mom also— we're skipping ahead, but whatever, we've all watched it— uh, is not terminally ill or anything. So it's like you could have cooled off for a couple months somewhere.

Steve

6 months minimum, right? Like, we're not talking about like 5 years.

Nic

No, let your husband get a new woman he can control.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Once he's settled into her, then you can do your thing.

Steve

Horrifying. That's the thought that came to both of us. But, but yes, like that kind of thing. Hopefully he never does again.

Nic

But so, so one of the things that, uh, that Sarah— Laura Sarah is now doing— she's in her house and she looks out the window and she sees this neighbor guy just like singing his ass off and dancing around.

Steve

Guys and Dolls, I think, right?

Nic

Singing, uh, West Side Story or something.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And just having a gay old time. And this is a big deal to her because to see a guy who is just letting loose and willing to be vulnerable and not taking himself so seriously, in addition to all the other horrible things about her ex or her husband, is he must have been miserable to be around at all times. There was nothing fun about that guy.

Steve

Yeah. Something I think both you and I have in spades, and I think our wives appreciate, is a sense of whimsy and being able to be silly and whimsical and sort of, you know, not tied to like this sort of like concept that things need to be all in their right place all the time.

Nic

Like, what happened?

Steve

Seriously. You know? And I think that if you are not someone who has been around a lot of whimsical men, it can be, you know, shocking in a good way, but it can be very, very new, very different. Yeah. And I think especially, and this is more true even, you know, 3 decades ago than it is today. Although it still definitely is true. But yeah, so he's dancing around his backyard and she's enjoying it, you know, but at one point, of course, he glances up, sees her in the window. Just notices real quick and she ducks behind. So there's a little like playfulness here, but she is rightly, you know, suspicious of just men in general and kind of not wanting to be near anybody. So the next morning she sees, or maybe it's later that day, whatever, but she sees apples out on the tree, which is technically in his yard, I believe. But she goes out anyway, a bunch of beautiful Granny Smith apples and starts picking them. And he comes up and is sort of like, I mean, he's being playful, but also like he doesn't know her background. And she, from her perspective, this is scary because he's like, that's illegal. Like, you're stealing. People don't steal. People go to jail for stealing around here. Like, all this stuff. And he's trying to be playful, but it is very much coming off like this chick cannot catch a break when it comes to men, right? And this was when I had the thought, this movie is why Women Pick the Bear, the movie. It just came 3 and a half decades early for that discourse. Yeah. But like, like, all the dudes in this movie from the beginning are like, just in her shit, like ridiculously, like, get the fuck back.

Nic

You're doing the wrong kind of teasing. Yeah, given her background.

Steve

This is pulling the pigtails on the playground bullshit that we all have moved away from, hopefully, since. But this, we should mention, this is Ben.

Nic

This is her neighbor Ben, the guy who was dancing around. He has, again, you were talking about people having a lot of hair.

Steve

I mean, ridiculous.

Nic

This guy, he has kind of a Kurt Russell, like a little bit of a muted Kurt Russell. It's not quite as like full, but it's just one of those very like feathered— yeah, it looks like it takes a lot to keep it in place. Um, yeah, I don't know, there's something—.

Steve

Uh, Kurt Russell, it would be, it would be more interesting in the front. This guy's a little too windswept looking, a little too swept back, but it's— yeah, just a ton of hair. And he is a drama professor, I guess, basically theater professor at— they just say a local college there in Cedar Falls. I don't know if there's actually a college in Cedar Falls, Iowa or not, but But at a college there in town, he teaches drama. Hence the show tunes.

Nic

And Laura, by the way, she said she was stealing apples to make a pie and she had like 35 apples. You don't need that many apples to make a pie. She could have taken a pie amount of apples and snuck away unnoticed.

Steve

I mean, I haven't made a pie in years, but like what, 10 or 12? 60 apples. 60? I was even thinking 10, but like, okay.

Nic

It depends on the size.

Steve

Well, that's a good point.

Nic

You know. Yes. So, uh, oh, so, so we get, uh, Martin. Yeah, we get a quick flash to Martin, right, on the beach. He finds some broken glass and he looks up and sees that the lamp had been broken, right? So he steps on the broken glass, little, uh, Annie Lennox. And, uh, oh, we can add this to walking on broken glass. There we go.

Steve

Tag on the website. Tag it up.

Nic

Um, yeah, so he's like, hmm, you know, we just get a quick scene of Martin being like, okay, he's not convinced that she's gone forever, right?

Steve

Right. Well, it— I don't even know if he's there yet. He's just like, this is weird.

Nic

It's just one of those, like, this is weird.

Steve

Yeah, like, why would these two be broken?

Nic

Doesn't usually break the glasses in front of our house at home.

Steve

That's right. Um, but then we get, uh, a phone call. I believe Martin is at the— at his work. He gets a phone call and he's irritated. He tells the secretary, shut up, all this stuff, you know, because he treats the women in his life so well. Um, but she says, you know, uh, Mr. Whatever, She says she knew your wife. And he's like, all right, fine, like put her through kind of thing. And basically the woman, you know, he was like, hey, like, so how did you know my wife? And she's like, oh, I knew her from the YWCA, which the, you know, like the women's gym or whatever kind of thing. He's like, no, my wife didn't go to the YWCA. She's like, oh yeah, she did swimming lessons with us. He's like, no, no, no, she doesn't know how to swim. He's like, well, yeah, she didn't at first, but she got really good. Like we were all really proud of her. She got over her fears and he's like starting to calculate, right? And then she says, And then he— but he's saying, you must have the wrong woman. You must have the wrong woman. I think it's the wrong number. And the woman on the phone goes, she did gymnastics, right? And he's like— and this— there's like a moment of relief. He goes, no, you clearly have that because my wife never did gymnastics. Definitely this is the wrong person. She goes, yeah, she said that's how she got all those bruises all over her body. And that's when it clicks for him. Damn. Oh, fuck, it is her. She was telling people the gymnastics thing to cover up for my beating her ass. And, and then she learned to swim. And so this just throws him off completely. And he drives back out to Cape Cod. Clearly it's off-season now. Like, he's not living out at that house.

Nic

Um, but you know, I'd like to walk around in his normal house because that house is so spectacular. I would love to see what his other place—.

Steve

It's probably like a downtown Boston penthouse apartment is kind of what I would expect.

Nic

But yeah, yeah, um, yeah, so, so he goes out there and, uh, he finds in the toilet the wedding ring that she had flushed.

Steve

Yes, tried to flush, which I— when she was flushing it, I thought to myself, can you flush?

Nic

Why would you do that?

Steve

Why wouldn't you just keep it with you? I don't understand.

Nic

Throw it, take it off in the ocean when you're swimming. That bus ride is gonna stop somewhere in 'You know, Pennsylvania, toss it out the window there.' Like, so the funny thing though is that he like takes the ring out of the toilet, picks it up, and puts it directly onto his finger. The guy who's as OCD as he is about cans and fucking towels and everything is not digging the toilet for a ring and putting it on his finger. He's got gloves, he's got a, you know, a little grabber thing, right?

Steve

Do we also— are we also expected to believe that from the moment that she went missing until now, he has not used the bathroom, the master bathroom in that house. Right.

Nic

That seems strange. Because the house isn't a crime scene.

Steve

No.

Nic

So the house should have been business as usual.

Steve

And it's not like he, I mean, I guess maybe the next day he went back to Boston or something to like, whatever. But like the house looks, I don't know, maybe like he had people come in, but like it looks like it's been, you know, furniture's covered and there's like sheets have been taken off the bed. So like work was done in the place. It's just kind of weird that he would then find it, you know, ostensibly weeks later. Right? Right. Is what it seems like. Just a little strange, but—.

Nic

It's a big house though. Lots of bathrooms to take those Quahog dumps.

Steve

Um, shellfish will stop you up, man.

Nic

Like, uh, so now, so now, uh, Julia, Laura, Sarah is at, um, she's at Ben's house and kind of hanging out.

Steve

He— she brings the pie, right?

Nic

So he invited her over. He's like, hey, no hard feelings about earlier, whatever. Yeah, very nice kind of neighbor situation. He's not very forward at this point. I mean, he's pretty like— he is definitely like, hey, I'm letting you know, I think you're a pretty gal, and if you were ever to like it, I'd definitely be down for it, but I'm not making any moves right now. Even though that's a move technically.

Steve

Right. Well, it was interesting because the initial— okay, this was my weirdness with him. And this is, I think, a product of watching a thriller movie knowing you're watching a thriller movie. There are things that you kind of like if you watch a lot of horror thriller, you look for certain things. Right. And I do consider myself, you know, sort of a student of the genre, I guess. When he first arrived, when we first see him and he is dancing to West Side Story, to You're Always a Jet, whatever. Right. That is like Mr. Whimsical. This is like such a clear distinction between him and Martin. Okay, cool. This is not the same guy. This is interesting. Interesting. But then the next scene we get is him giving her shit about the apples and kind of being forceful about it. And I immediately thought to myself, okay, never mind, I don't like this guy. This guy's gonna be additional problems for her. Like, I thought this was going to be, you know, another sort of like, oh, she always gets with the bad guy and they do things to her, you know, kind of thing. And then we get to this, he's burning the roast and he's being cute about it, and he's like appreciative of the pie. So I go, okay, so is he a good dude or not? Like, they try to play this sort of tension ramp up with the wrong character, I feel like. Yeah, by making Ben seem anything other than sort of harmless at the beginning, we get like extra tense about him, and it makes when he— but when we're supposed to feel that he's tense later, that there's tension revolving around him, it's, it's weakened because we've already seen him go on that roller coaster a couple times. So just a thought that I had about that.

Nic

But counterpoint to that, because I, I totally, I totally see that.

Steve

If—.

Nic

What if the purpose of all that is to show that the Julia Roberts character is never escaping that feeling of that kind of like tension or aggression from men. So even if Ben— because we're seeing the movie from her perspective, right?

Steve

True.

Nic

So if Ben in real life was just like, oh yeah, go ahead and take the apples, but she sees it as him being like, oh, what are you doing there?

Steve

I mean, I don't—.

Nic

But this movie is— this movie exists pretty much in a plain reality. This would totally be like, oh, well, actually, teacher, uh, so anyway, just, uh, just a thought of just showing that her character And, and real life for so many women is you're never away from that fucking feeling wherever you are, whoever you're with.

Steve

Well, and then the whole thing around, you know, we can't say like it's— it is absolutely reasonable as, as, as two men who have never, would never hurt a woman because we wouldn't hurt other people because we're reasonably good dudes. Women— I am so a-okay with women being, uh, cautious of, avoidant of, afraid of all men.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Because they have to be of some men and they can't tell ahead of time which one.

Nic

Totally.

Steve

Or which one. So it's like, yeah, this could be having that guard up around who is ostensibly appearing to be like a regularly good dude, you know, a regular, a mostly positive sort of influence or whatever around. Like her reaction to that being so guarded makes total sense.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

I'm just questioning from like the filmmaking of it, right? Is that what the audience should be seeing?

Nic

Right.

Steve

Because once we be feeling comfortable, more comfortable there, is it a more interesting beat? Beat if he is super friendly. Yeah. And she's cautious.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Versus giving us a version of him where he's a little— we're suspecting, right? Exactly. And it's like, is it a more interesting character beat for her if she's just cautious because she's going to be cautious, not he's giving her a reason to be? Like, he's pretty aggressive about the fucking apple tree. Sure, that's true. But I digress. Like, we can, uh, we could definitely move forward on that.

Nic

Uh, and also, you know, they're in Iowa, which is landlocked, so she knows like there's no way out if she has to escape.

Steve

That's true. Can't swim away from this guy.

Nic

Um, so let's see, she ends up, uh, oh, so her mom is in a rest home.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And, um, she hasn't been yet to see her, right?

Steve

But she's telling Ben about her, like, yeah, yeah.

Nic

And, uh, and Martin has showed up there. Yeah, he's kind of found his way there.

Steve

He— I think he hires a PI to track her down, right? Because he calls to talk to the place that she was at, uh, or goes to visit the place she was at near them, near Boston, I think. Or, or no, no, it was in Minnesota. He goes to Minneapolis to the place he knows that her mom had been at and is talking to somebody about like, hey, you know, what's the deal here? Has she been by? You know, all this stuff. Basically he wants to know if like, if Laura's been around. And the woman was like, well, yeah, she came 3 months ago or whatever and moved her mom. He's like, well, no, her mom died. No, no, no, she just moved her thing. So now he's like, okay, so he, you know, when she was gone, she wasn't at a funeral, she was moving her mother. I know now she learned to swim, and now he's got the break, you know, the broken lights as a signal. Like, all these different things are all lining up. So that's when he goes to a PI and is like, "Find this woman, the mother. Find her for me. When you do," and the guy's like, "Well, it'll be expens— I can put like 3 guys on it. It'll be expensive." He's like, "Great. Lots of money. $10,000 to the guy who finds her on top of everything else, and an extra $10,000 to you when that happens." So it's like he is putting everything he can to make this the most motivated manhunt, you know, ever. And sure enough, it works. Well, basically instantly. Yeah. Effectively instantly for the story as it works.

Nic

Yep. Yep. So he's like in their town now, or he's on their way. He's, yeah.

Steve

So basically like we see a 4th of July parade. Yes. And I think at the same time we get this, we get basically told that Martin, or we shown that Martin shows up at the funeral home, not funeral home, that's the wrong word. The retirement home. Yes. That Laura's mom is at. So we get this sort of like, uh, dual scene situation where we see Ben and Laura interacting in this, like you said, like the super wholesome, you know, little small town Cedar Falls, Fourth of July parade, the perfect Americana. And they're just interacting very friendly and like kissing on the front porch or whatever. It's like, and it's showing us a natural progression. Meanwhile, Martin is getting closer. You're right. He's now in Iowa. You know, again, we don't, I don't think it's in Cedar Falls. Like she didn't move back to the town.

Nic

Right. Not exactly in the same town, but close. Like we're getting very close to her.

Steve

Within an hour, maybe, right? That kind of thing. And, and he has found mom, as it were.

Nic

So yeah, and we get a, we get a little, um, of Laura and Ben kind of enjoying each other's company. We get a little, uh, Doubtfire-style montage of them.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nic

Like goofing around because they're at the theater where he's the teacher, so they're like trying on the costumes and all this shit with Brown Eyed Girl playing. Expensive song to get for the movie. Good, uh, good little ding in the budget, I'm sure.

Steve

I don't mean, I don't know, I just, I just know it's Julia Roberts, so you know, it's entirely possible that Van Morrison gives a discount if you're going to use it for her. She's literally the brown-eyed girl. But yeah.

Nic

And let's see here.

Steve

Well, so they're dancing backstage and they're clearly like, I mean, they're basically falling for each other. They go back to her house and she invites him in and they start making out. But then, and this was just reminding me immediately of Roadhouse, of, you know, Patrick Swayze putting Kelly Lynch up against the cobblestone wall. They lay down on the wooden stairs and are like, yeah, like this is the least comfortable possible place place to do this. And she starts to push, and, and, you know, he doesn't respond great to this. Like, she's like, no, no, no. And he, he doesn't push— obviously Martin would, Martin would just make her submit— but like, he pushes a little more than he needs to, than he ought to. You know, no is no, guys, you know, the whole deal. Um, but she does tell him, no, you need to stop, you need to go. And he does. Um, this was the point in the movie— we were talking this before that we started recording— where I thought to myself, oh my God, I really hope Ben doesn't save her. Like, I hope the ending of this isn't Martin finds her and Ben saves her. That would be so terrible for this character. Right. So we'll get to that eventually. But like, it's, it's, he basically, there's this conversation between the two of them and he's insightful enough to understand and ask like, like, what did he do to you? Clearly there's somebody in your, you know, probably recent past, you know, he can surmise, but certainly in your past that treated you horrifically. Like, what happened? And, you know, she basically tells him like, yeah, I had an incredibly abusive husband and I escaped and like, whatever. And that's when, you know, she makes it clear that's why she hasn't gone to visit her mom. She rightfully thinks that's potentially dangerous, a way that he could try to track her down. So he being the theater guy helps her in disguise. And it's a really good one. Mustache, the hair, it's a good disguise.

Nic

I love that they get to use him for that purposes. Like that there's definite reasons why he's a theater teacher in this. You know, it comes into play so often.

Steve

It's interesting 'cause I think, you know, when writing this screen— Well, first I guess for the novel, I'm assuming, right? 'Cause this is an adapted screenplay. But like when the novel was being written, it was probably like, well, I need somebody who I can make it obvious why why he's whimsical. And I can make it obvious why he'd know how to help with disguises. And it's kind of like, and then if you don't want him to be gay, like there's, you can't just be like, well, he's a Broadway singer. It's like, ah, that's gonna code a certain way. But if he's a theater professor, we can let that go either direction. Right? 'Cause we need another one later when Martin gets even closer who is a gay man. You know, probably pretty on the DL in Iowa in the early '90s. But like.

Nic

[Speaker] Yeah.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I mean that, geez, that must have been tough there.

Steve

Exactly. But yeah, but basically she is able to go— she borrows Ben's car, beautiful convertible Mustang, gorgeous car, borrows that in disguise, ball cap, sunglasses, mustache, like the whole deal, you know. I think they bound her like chest and put very boy clothes on her, like did the whole deal. Um, but of course fucking Martin is like there, like actually he's at the place walking the halls, terrifying and creepy as hell.

Nic

I think, uh, it's the only time I've ever seen this in a movie, and maybe the only time we ever will, but there's a little scene of like evil drinking fountain gulping where it gives like a camera of Martin like leaning down and just like gulp gulp gulp on the drinking fountain. It is so fucking funny. I don't understand why, but thank you for putting that in there.

Steve

It's upsetting. It was upsetting. I've never been upset by, by fountain usage, but that is upsetting.

Nic

From now on, when I see one of those, I'll be like, ah, I'll drink out of the sink in the bathroom.

Steve

Thank you very much. I mean, to be fair, I have definitely not used a public water fountain since COVID but like, you know. Oh man.

Nic

Uh, really like like, yeah, really upsetting.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Um, so he's— so he's there and, uh, and Sarah sees him.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So there's kind of, you know, he, he wouldn't recognize her.

Steve

Does she see him? I didn't get the sense that she did. She never turns around because she's drinking at the water fountain and just gets up and goes. Okay.

Nic

I thought she saw him at the very end.

Steve

No, I think that she— they don't— neither of them see each other, and he stands behind her for a good, you know, 15 seconds while she's drinking from the water fountain.

Nic

Then too many Mississippians, by the way. If there's a line, you gotta just dip back and get back in line. You can't go that long.

Steve

Save the whales, baby. Uh, so you got— so then she heads out the door and he stops at the desk to ask if— if I remember Laura's mom's name, Chloe or something like that— uh, if she's had any visitors, right? And that whole kind of thing. But she's gone, you know, Laura has left now. But the woman is like, oh yes sir, you know, you asked about visitors, you know, she did have, you know, nobody for months and then today. And he goes, a young woman? She's like, no, young man, he's mustache and, you know, he like just— what, he just left? Yeah. Martin rushes out and like nobody's there, right? He doesn't see her. But this is then, I think, when he goes back into Chloe's room and starts pretending to be a cop. Chloe's mom is blind, right? We got to make sure we— I don't think we mentioned that before. Laura's mom, Chloe, is blind. And, and it's, uh, so she had a stroke, so she's like had some— and she cannot see. And so she recognizes Laura's voice, right, when they're chatting. But now Martin is disguising his voice, uh, with a little bit of an accent, you know, with the police, you know, that whole kind of thing. And, you know, he basically says like, we, we are worried about her and about her husband coming to get her and we're trying to keep her safe and like all this kind of stuff, you know? And so basically he gets out of her that she's been seeing a guy who is a dramatics professor at a college in Cedar Falls.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And he goes to— he's going to fucking kill her. He's got this pillow.

Nic

The pillow.

Steve

The classic.

Nic

Wielding a pillow ready to smother her.

Steve

Luckily, the assistant, the orderly, the nurse, whoever it is, comes in and talks, you know, briefly to her. And he doesn't kill mom. Basically, mom lives. But it's, it's still you know, we, we now know he is super close because it can't be that many dramatics professors at this one college in this one town, which is the town she lives in. So he is getting incredibly close at this point.

Nic

He's very, very close, and close to the point that he's very confident that when he identifies the first dramatics professor, that that's definitely the guy, right?

Steve

So, and then he, yeah, gets into that guy's car, puts a gun to his head, is like, you know, and he's real nasty about it. Oh, that's my wife, she's She's a good fuck, isn't she? And, and the guy's like, dude, you got the wrong guy, you got the wrong guy. And he's like, no, I don't, it's you. Like, kind of thing. Oh, he's so sure.

Nic

It's your car. Seriously, just get in your car, just take a quick look in the back.

Steve

Last week we talked about car safety when it comes to, uh, not getting in the front. Yeah, not getting in the front seat with a group, that's important. Check your back seat before you get into your car, also important. Important car safety tips here on Two Dads One Movie.

Nic

Yeah. And then, and it was totally like, uh, okay, well, sorry about the misunderstanding. Uh, if you tell anybody, I will kill you.

Steve

Uh, but guy, he's like, you got it wrong guy. And he's like, no I don't. He's like, dude, I live with a man. Like, yeah, I'm definitely not fucking your wife. Like, because it's not how that works for me.

Nic

Also, if anyone ever comes up and accuses you of fucking your wife, that is the thing to say, by the way. It's gonna buy you enough time to get away.

Steve

Hopefully. Uh, hopefully.

Nic

So we have, we have Laura, and she's home in the tub relaxing. She got—.

Steve

No, no, we got— no, we got the county fair. He— she and Ben go to the fair.

Nic

Oh, Jesus.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they go to the fair. So Martin's at the fair. Yeah, Martin follows Ben. So he finds Ben because he's one of the only other young male dramatic professors, I guess, right? Follows Ben to the county fair, or actually, I guess even to home. I'm not even sure exactly, but basically they end up at the fair. And Ben meets up with Laura there. And so now Martin is sort of like, it's a great scene of him sort of pacing between different booths and different things and just watching them from enough of a distance that they don't, you know, first of all.

Nic

He's so fucking mad.

Steve

Oh, he's just fucking fuming. They get on a Ferris wheel together and they're going up and around. They're making out on the Ferris wheel and he is fucking losing his shit.

Nic

He's like Zack Morris watching Slater and Kelly make out together, dude. He can't handle it so bad.

Steve

And then, so then they go back home and, uh, she asks Ben, hey, give me 20 minutes to get to freshen up, whatever.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

And he's like, okay, I'll have it ready in 20 minutes. And we don't know what he's talking about yet, but she goes in and she gets into the bathtub. And, uh, this is when the— this is like probably the best stretch of the movie is from this point on. Like when she gets to the house at this point um, for until the end of the movie. It's really tense, it's really good. There's a good reason for us to be, uh, scared for her. And like, I think initially she hears— does she see the hand towels first? Is that the first thing she noticed?

Nic

I think she's in the tub and she looks at the rack and sees that the hand towels are perfectly even, which it doesn't necessarily show that they're uneven before.

Steve

Well, because she messed them up.

Nic

That one's just kind of like, okay, that's not how I typically put them, or just like a quick reminder of Mark Martin.

Steve

I think more than anything, it was— yeah, it was just, it was just a, a sort of memory. It made a memory flood back to her of him and just made her, you know, that's like a PTSD thing right now. She's tense because of that. Yeah.

Nic

Um, and then, uh, is, is Ben— Ben comes over to that.

Steve

Well, he's— so she's looking around the house. She's suspicious, so she puts on a robe and is just kind of looking around. She, she's, you know, looking at things and seeing a few of the things that are off a bit or whatever. But then she opens a cupboard, a cabinet, and the cupboard over, and all cans and packaged foods are turned all which way.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And they've not been corrected.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

And then she, like, breathes a sigh of relief. And I think Ben, like, busts into the door or something.

Nic

He does something that was like, "Why would you do that?" He is a little— I will say, like, everything we're saying about Ben, like, he just had this conversation with this woman about, "Oh my God, I found out that you had this horrible relationship and you're so traumatized by what your ex did to you." And now he's like, well, you said 20 minutes, it's been exactly 20 minutes. Like, no, no, no, you can't do that kind of shit to her.

Steve

Like, you— he helped her disguise herself to visit her own mother. Like, he is well aware of the level of, if not true danger she's in, certainly paranoia she has about it, right? But she is convinced one way or another that this guy will come kill her, right? So Ben is kind of an idiot at this point.

Nic

But, you know, his internal plan to get laid is still business as usual. It's like, no, Ben, I'm sorry, but this all derailed your whole —exactly.

Steve

So it turns out that what he was setting up was a lovely little picnic for the two of them on the lawn. Yeah. Um, and this is when we start getting a lot of great first-person shots from like behind the trees. We're seeing Ben and Laura through leaves and, and past tree trunks, which is always such a great look for any thriller to have that like the killer is stalking in the woods, totally, or the nearby bushes kind of thing. So we get a lot of that. After the, uh, picnic, they say goodnight to each other and she goes back into the house and just decides to to turn to press play on the tape deck without looking at what's in it. Yep. Assuming whatever she had in his life, but she presses it and it's Berlioz. Yes. And it's clearly the same piece.

Nic

Martin's evil theme song. Yes.

Steve

Symphony Fantastique or whatever it is. And so, oh no, no, the first thing she does, the first thing she did when she walks in is put down some toast. She just had a picnic, but she needs some toast. So she puts a couple of pieces of bread in the toaster and puts on the toaster because now the Berlioz is playing and that gets her she starts freaking out a little bit about it, looking around, doing whatever. And then I think we hear the smoke alarm because the toaster has burned the bread and caused the smoke alarm to start. And the whole thing is just—.

Nic

That smoke alarm is a terrible sound. It's like enhanced from what a normal smoke alarm is in this movie.

Steve

It's really rough, but it's a great— it's a great tool.

Nic

And she's kind of yelling around like, Ben, like, as if Ben is fucking with her by doing this. She— why would she think Barton is like they're there, right? She's starting, then she opens the cupboard.

Steve

Exactly, the one same one she opened, you know, essentially an hour earlier, right?

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

And all the cans are straightened out, they're all faced out. And, and that was a great— that's a great— that was shot well, that was played well. Like, I really enjoyed that moment when she opens it and scans, because you knew it was coming, but it was still— it still paid off well. Um, and then, uh, and then, you know, Martin comes and, and sort of like attacks her. Yep, right. He's got the gun and like the whole deal. And he's like, talk— he's talking all this crazy shit, and there's a knock at the back door, and it's Ben. And he's kind of like, you know, like, make it go away. Yeah, kind of thing. So he actually locks the, like, little chain lock so she can't open the door all the way. Yeah. And then hides behind it, and Ben talks her over a little bit, whatever. And she's just like, now's not a good time, you can just go home, you know, the whole deal. He's very meek about it. And this was my— the thing that I thought was like such a great instinct from Ben is that the door closes and we know Martin and Laura walking over the door, and then Ben literally like kicks open the door. Yeah, like, bus it down. Knows there's something wrong. Yeah, goes in, and it's just— yeah, it's a fantastic fight then between Martin and Ben for a bit.

Nic

Um, and, uh, and Ben gets knocked out. Knocked out.

Steve

Yeah, like knocked out cold.

Nic

Uh, which is great. And there's, there's a gun here that Martin had. Yes, right. And it's knocked loose, and, uh, Sarah is able to pick it up, right? You know, and one of the better scenes, uh, that I love in a movie is like The shaky gun being held at the person you're finally about to get your revenge on.

Steve

Well, and she shoots a shot at him, but it like goes and hits the wall, but it really missed by quite a bit. But he does know she was willing to pull the trigger. That's right. So there's an element that raises the stakes for him here. Definitely. Because even if he doesn't think, maybe he doesn't think she'd kill him, she did just shoot at him. So there's that. But he's like doing the whole slow step towards, you know, talking crazy shit. And she's like, don't you fucking move. I'm gonna call the cops. I'm gonna call the cops. Cops, and he even says— he's kind of like saying, yeah, do it, maybe they'll give you a restraining order. Yeah, like, I won't pay attention to it, but go ahead, you know.

Nic

And he's just fucking being crazy, like, you're not gonna kill me, you don't have the guts, kind of, right? And then, uh, and then she, she gets a hold of the phone, right? So she's got the gun on him.

Steve

Yep, got the gun on him, picks up the phone, calls 911, and is talking to the 911 operator. And she said, like, I need the police quickly, I need the police And then she delivers the fucking coldest ass line in any movie like this. I think there is a— there is— it is so good when she says just calmly to the 911 operator, please send someone right away. I've just killed an intruder. When that hit, I fucking like almost yelped. Like I was so stoked on that. Literally wrote in my notes and ended up not doing this, but that is worth half a point on the whole score of the movie. Just that line alone. I ended up going back to my original score, but that's okay. Like, it was a boss-ass line and is so great because it cleared the character arc for her that she is saving herself. Ben is fucking knocked out in the next room, unconscious, completely unable to help, and in all ways vulnerable.

Nic

He is like a WWF referee where there's like, there's no reviving him no matter what. He is done for the match.

Steve

He's down and out for the count. But she— and she shoots Martin a couple of times. Yep. And he still sort of continues to like to like fall forward and like whatever. And there's this moment where like he is dying but gets the gun and her. Yes. And is pointing it at her and pulls the trigger and it's just, there are no bullets left. Like she used them all, I guess, on him. But it's like he wanted to take her with him.

Nic

Yeah, he gets that one last burst. Doesn't— If you're truly evil, the devil will possess your body for like that final 5 seconds that allows you to like make a lunge with a knife. Right. Or grab for a gun or something like that.

Steve

Or try to grab the person as you fall off the cliff. Right. Get ahold of their shirt. Exactly. Take them with you. Taking someone out with you. But no, no luck for Martin there. So yeah, it was a great, it was a great character moment, uh, for Laura, obviously, you know, taking complete control over her trauma. Yeah. Um, and, and it, you know, obviously works out. She goes and kind of revives Ben, just kind of shakes him awake, and, and, and the movie ends with the two of them sort of embracing on the floor, and that's with Martin's dead body nearby. And I think, and I think her ring— she, he had brought— oh, he brought the ring, right? And, and so then lying next to his hand is her ring like literally I think it even sparkles. Yeah, on the floor we get a little Joe Pesci's tooth from Home Alone.

Nic

A perfect ending of the movie that replaced Home Alone in the box office, right?

Steve

Started with the Home Alone coded music, ends with the twinkle like Joe Pesci's tooth. Dude, that is—.

Nic

I mean, we had a break-in. Yeah, we get all kinds of crazy stuff here. Good shit. Yeah, so, uh, so there goes Martin, and now, uh, Sarah can live out her life in peace. I guess, I guess, assuming Martin didn't have any kind of associates that he paid before he was killed that said, uh, take her out if you don't hear from me.

Steve

He certainly seems like the kind of guy who would just do that himself, right? Like, he paid people to find her, and that seems very, very appropriate for him, but I don't think he'd be the kind of person who's like, if I don't make it back from this, go find her and kill her. You know, he doesn't have like henchmen. That's, you know, he would have had to hire somebody explicitly for that, which just doesn't feel like his ammo. Um, there we go.

Nic

Jeez, so that is, uh Sleeping with the Enemy. Yeah, so, uh, should I— I'll go ahead and take the review here first. This was my pick, and, uh, man, so this movie is so funny to me because I think that the structure of it is good. I think the story is pretty solid, like the beats of the movie are good, and it almost feels like they were, they were setting the movie up and doing the blocking and the lighting, and they just brought in some guy to play opposite Julia Roberts in both instances. Right? And then just shot the whole fucking movie with that guy. Yeah, yeah. I feel like both these guys are so bad that it, that it ruins the movie. I think Julia Roberts does a great job in this movie. Um, there's not a whole bunch of other side characters or anything, and the two main dudes, it's like, dude, I want to see your budget. I want to see what they got paid and what were quotes from other guys during this time, you know? There's somebody who could play a better creep. If you want to add budget, get a Michael Douglas or someone like that to be the evil husband. Like there's more that could have been done. So I feel like it suffered because those performances were just no good. Yeah. But overall, I mean, it's enjoyable in the way that I like to enjoy a shitty movie, and satisfying ending and stuff, and fun to talk about. So I'm gonna go ahead and kind of— I'm gonna split the middle, I think, between the, the Rotten Tomatoes and, and the IMDb. I'm gonna give it a 2.5 out of 5.

Steve

All right, 2.5, that's nice. Nice. I will say, just on the topic of sort of like getting people to be at Julia Roberts' level opposite her in this movie, I think— I am about to conjecture completely. I don't know any of this, but my conjecture is at this time, this would have been filmed in 1990, right? Released in '91. Roberts is a huge star, but like relatively new to the time. I think Pretty Woman was '87, and that was truly her big breakout, right? So she's relatively new, but she is like it when it comes to Hollywood leading women at this time. It's like her and Meryl Streep for the most part, right? At this time. I don't— hope I'm not insulting any other great women actresses of the time, but like, that's my take. To get a lead male character or actor who would bring the kind of ability that Julia Roberts brings to the screen in a story where they are necessarily secondary to her would've been a hard sell. And paying an actor more than you're paying Julia Roberts in this movie would have been the wrong thing to do. Sure. So I think there's an element of Michael Douglas never does this movie because this movie's not about Michael Douglas' character.

Nic

Yeah, that's a bad example.

Steve

No, but I mean, even—.

Nic

But these two guys were fucking never in anything after that, you know? So it's like, you could have done one.

Steve

Kevin Anderson did a few things. The Ben, actor who played Ben did a couple of things, but like—.

Nic

Kyle MacLachlan, there's a level of a guy, you know?

Steve

He certainly would have been far more terrifying as Martin, far better.

Nic

John Larroquette as the affable guy.

Steve

Ernie Hudson. Too old. Too old.

Nic

Well, too old now.

Steve

No, no, too old then. In '91, Ernie Hudson was like 40. Like, Laura's character's 27. That wouldn't have worked. But anyway, the point being, I think there was a crazy Hollywood age gap. But I think, but I think that again though, but it's twisted, right? Because, or it's flipped on its head because it's the woman in the lead role. And I think that there were a lot of men, especially at the time, would have been scared off of that. Their agents would have told them, don't be in that movie. That's her movie. You see what I'm saying? Like, so I think it's a, it's an element of standard Hollywood misogyny. Unique to me and sort of a product of its time where I don't think this problem happens today. I think if you made this movie today with, you know, I don't know, Florence Pugh or somebody who's like, maybe not Julia Roberts big, but like big enough, right? In today's— and you got, you could get Jeremy Allen White, you could get Andrew Garfield, you could get Timothée Chalamet on the other side. You could, that could happen today. I just feel like in 1990, '91, that was never gonna happen for her.

Nic

There's also like a, in the era that we cover, such a separation between kind of TV actors and film actors. Yes, huge. Like, all right, we have so many to choose from because you got these guys on these TV shows that could be interchangeable in movies. So yeah, the pools were like totally different during that time until The Sopranos.

Steve

The Sopranos literally broke open that whole— what, because that was the start of prestige TV, and now movie actors were willing to go do TV, right? Not ABC, NBC, CBS, but they'd go do Showtime or HBO, whatever. Nowadays it's, it's just wide open, right? Everybody's an actor's an actor at this point. There's no such thing as movie actors and TV anymore. It doesn't exist. But you're right, in the '90s and '80s, that was a hard line in the sand. Yeah. So all that having been said, let me get to how I actually feel about Sleeping with the Enemy. Um, I want to thank you for bringing this. I really enjoyed it. It is absolutely a category of genre film that I enjoy. Um, I would put this right kind of below The River Wild, but not a ton of steps back. Significantly better than Pacific Heights, like by leaps and bounds in my opinion. Um, when I was talking about that line at the end selling me on a half-point bump that was gonna be from 3.5 to 4. But I am actually a 3.5, a nice solid 3.5 on Sleeping with the Enemy. I thought that the tension in the third act was fantastic. I thought that the storyline, the screenplay, like the dialogue, and Julia Roberts' performance all worked past the shortcomings of her co-stars. You know, I think that she and just the general storyline made up for kind of underwhelming performances, especially by Martin, who comes off as snidely Whiplash cartoonish. Yes. And needed to be a little more believable just as a human being. Unless we wanted to believe he has some supernatural reason he's such a piece of shit. If he's supposed to be literally the devil or something, then show us that and make it crazy. But he's too cartoonish, in my opinion, beyond that. So, so that's my rating. I'm a 3.5 out of 5. You're a 2.5. So we are 6 out of 10. All right. Sleeping with the Enemy, which is like right around the IMDb score, give or take, significantly better than what Rotten Tomatoes thought. But that's okay. That's how, that's how that stuff goes down. Cool.

Nic

Cool. We're with the audiences, we're with the masses, kind of. This is one of those movies that is not critically good and it's an absolute blast to kind of sit through. Like, it does all the things that you want a movie to do for you as you're experiencing it.

Steve

And it's no surprise that it made a shit ton of money at the box office. Yes, like, absolutely. This is a people-pleasing kind of movie to go see with, again, the woman who was absolutely America's sweetheart at the time. You know, 100%, Julia Roberts was going to sell out theaters in 1991 no matter what she was doing. Yeah, but it just so happened that it was a great story for her. You know, her character has a great arc and a great story and a great resolution in this movie. So there's that. All right. All right.

Nic

Next week, what, what, uh, we're on '90, going to 1992. Steve, this is your pick. What do we have as we go through the decades?

Steve

We are gonna, we are going to take a nice little tonal shift here and take a, take a breath because I think if we look back over the last like 4 movies, give or take, I mean, we had, uh, uh, Beetlejuice in there. But the last, like, really straight comedy we've seen was like Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Yeah. So it's been, you know, a month and a half since we had one. So we're going to go comedy. We're going comedy in '92. I need a little breather. I need a little, like, you know, break from all this tension and buildup and everything. It was kind of nice that Sleeping with the Enemy ran just over an hour and a half after Goodfellas was so long. This is another one kind of on the shorter side. But yeah, we're going to go to '92 and we're going to go watch one of the movies that really tried to kick off, you know, the sort of genre, the subgenre within comedies of, of let's take an SNL sketch and make it into a movie. Okay. And this worked a couple of times and then didn't work a lot. Yeah. Right when it happened. But we're going to go to kind of the first major success in that category and we're going to go see Mike Myers and Dana Carvey. We're going to watch Wayne's World. Yes. And I have not seen Wayne's World in maybe 5 or 10 years. I used to watch it a ton. I've probably seen it a dozen or more times. But I'm absolutely excited to watch Wayne's World next week. I can't wait.

Nic

This is, ah, classic. Can't wait.

Steve

Good stuff. That's a wrap. So if you like what you hear, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a 5-star review. It helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website at twodads1movie.com. That's the number 2 and the number 1. There you can explore the movies we've covered, sign up for our newsletter, The Rewind, and even get sneak previews of upcoming episodes. We'd also love it if you followed us on Instagram Instagram, TikTok, and Bluesky at Two Dads One Movie. Once again, this has been Sleeping with the Enemy, another episode of Two Dads One Movie.

Nic

I'm Steve. And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening, and we'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks everyone.