Transcript

Mr. Rasczak (Starship Troopers)

Rico. Rico. Rico. Pay attention.

Rico (Starship Troopers)

Sorry, Mr. Ratchak.

Mr. Rasczak (Starship Troopers)

Let's sum up. This year we explored the failure of democracy. How the social scientists brought our world. To the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they. Took control and impose the stability that has lasted for generations since. You know these facts. But have I taught you anything of value this year? Hmm? You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?

Student (Starship Troopers)

It's a reward. What the Federation gives you for doing Federal Service.

Mr. Rasczak (Starship Troopers)

No, no. Something given has no value. Look, when you vote, you are exercising political authority. You're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.

Dizzy (Starship Troopers)

Uh, my mother always said, violence never solves anything.

Steve

It's two Dads one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello everybody. It's another episode of two Dads, one Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we're Talking about the 1997 sci fi extravaganza, Starship Troopers. I'm super excited to talk about this movie, Nic. This is one that I have loved since it came out. We will talk a little bit about its reception at the time, in the late 90s when it came out, and how confused perhaps its reception was. For the most part, yes. But it is directed by Paul Verhoeven, who's one of my favorite filmmakers. He had a run in the 80s and 90s of doing, I think in order. He did RoboCop, Basic Instinct, RoboCop, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, Showgirls, in this. That was like a run of five films for this guy, which they're all really biting satire, you know, as Starship Troopers is and. Yeah. So what, what's your sort of history with this one?

Nic

Oh, man. So this hit us, what? Junior year, very beginning of, you look.

Steve

At the release date was November of 97. This was in the very beginning of our senior year.

Nic

Okay. This hit at the right time.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

At least as far as just loving and being entertained by a movie. Like a movie that had everything a teenage kid was looking for. It definitely ought occupied space on my. My favorite movie of all time list for a bit when I first saw it the first couple times. Although, you know, we'll get into more of like the. The satire element of it. I don't know if I was enjoying it for the. The reasons intended by the director. I was just having a really fun time watching the movie. I love the effects for the time, the cheesiness, like the unintentional comedy of it.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I mean, not like beating you over the head. That is supposed to be a joke, but I think the director intended on certain things to be funny. Really hit for me. And God, what fun this was. And it didn't hurt then. There are some titties in it. I mean, for. For a 17 year old at the time, those were hard to come by and were easy to come by. So, yeah, this was such a fun one. And I saw it in the theater. Probably like two. I think I saw it three times in the theater, which was a lot for that era.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Nic

How about you?

Steve

Yeah, this is definitely one I saw, you know, in the theater. Maybe not opening weekend, but I think, you know, as word of mouth went around about it, it's definitely one that was like a theater watch for me. Watched it several times throughout college. You know, it was definitely the kind of movie that, yeah, if any, you know, at the time, what I appreciated about it was the sort of like schlocky, over the top, gruesome, you know, like, like violence of it. You know, it was very much enjoyable in the way that like, bad B movies of like the 60s can be super enjoyable. Yeah, I didn't, you know, at the time really understand all of the, you know, implications of what was being said and shown to us. Except I did. As I got through into college, I ended up getting my degree in political science. I ended up taking classes in terrorism and in civil liberties and like, all kinds of different things that did give me another view of, of this picture and the militarization and things. So I have really appreciated this movie as satire, you know, not literally since its release, but like since the early 2000s. I feel like that's something that has only become more of a mainstream accepted position in the last maybe 10 years, give or take.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So, okay, let's jump into the facts on Starship Troopers. It came out on November 7, 1997 with a well earned R rating, a running time of 129 minutes. Directed, as we said, by Paul Verhoeven, written by Edward Neumeyer, from the novel by Robert A. Heinlein. It stars Caspar Van Dien, Denise Richards and Dina Meyer, alongside a handful of other really great people, too. But on Rotten Tomatoes received a 72%. It's actually higher than I expected, given everything. But again, those are professional scores and reviews, not necessarily from the time it was released. So, yeah, absolutely have had a revisiting a critical revisiting of this film over the last decade. So I think that some of that Rotten Tomato score is informed by more recent reviews really digging into the satire of the film.

Nic

Yeah, I would love a snapshot of what the Rotten Tomato score was as of like 98 or 99, whatever the.

Steve

Earliest Rotten Tomatoes existed. Yeah, it would have been a very different thing. I think on IMDb a 7.3 is a very respectable score. It did win three awards, including Best Makeup and Creature Effects at the 1998 Fangoria Chainsaw Awards. The other one was the other award show that it won that was a very specific like sci fi and horror award show as well. Here's where it fell a little flat on a $105 million budget, which big bud, big budgets, about the same budget as Terminator 2. That's six years prior it earned just 121 million at the box office. So it did break even. But at 1.15 times its budget, that is a disappointment, if not an out now flop. So it was not particularly well critically received at the time. It was not a box office success. It garnered huge numbers on home video. Not to the extent that Verhoeven's Showgirls did. It ended up making so much money on home video that it more than made up for the fact that it was a huge flop as a. As like one of the first NC17 films to be watched released in the 90s.

Nic

But yeah, is it so, and I love Verhoeven as well. Is it surprising to you that he was given the helm of another like hundred million dollar budget film right after Showgirls, which didn't do as. I mean his other ones like Basic Instinct, Total Recall, those were huge successes. But I mean Showgirls was kind of a notorious flop at the time or critical disappointment even though despite being misunderstood, whatever. But money wise, I think it's crazy that he was given this much to work with. I'm glad he was.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was probably a thing of timing where the green light for this film potentially even came before the kind of result of Showgirls. I think there was only 18 months or so between the release of these two movies. Maybe two years. But you know, it was kind of in that ballpark. So it's possible that this ball was already rolling. Second is an adaptation of Heinlein. And getting the rights to adapt Heinlein's novel was probably more important to the studio than necessarily who was doing it. But Verhoeven had a very important Sort of thing, you know, that he wanted to say about Heinlein's novel and its glamorization of vile of state violence in particular. And so, you know, I, yeah, I'm glad it happened. I don't really know that the details behind. I think that could be a very interesting story to see. You know, sort of why didn't Showgirls tank Verhoeven's career? I guess would be the question. And it's also possible too that again, the home video bounce and the fact that it made a ton of money that way, maybe that was what sort of made it like, hey, this guy makes movies that, yeah, maybe they don't pull it in in that initial release, but they end up pulling it in one way or another and that might have been all that mattered.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, that, that makes sense. And I guess there was also a bit of a, a hunger for anything of this genre with the success of Independence Day and like various, like Alien Attack type movies. I don't think the Star, the Star wars prequels were still a couple of years from starting to come out.

Steve

They were, this was the same time. This was basically the year when they re released. A new hopeful Special editions thing also happened starting in 97. So but it was, that was a hot idea at the time. Sci fi was very, you know, big at that time. I think like Event Horizon was around this time or May next year, you know, so there was definitely a lot of sci fi being placed into several genres and being and us getting sci fi movies of different styles in the especially mid to late 90s. So yeah, I think that some of that was just like right place, right time. And Verhoeven had this sort of take on Heinlein's novel he wanted to go with and he got the green light because, you know, Showgirls doing whatever it did, like the man has had a track record of massive success. So, you know, it's not hard to see a studio be like, yeah, we're going to give Paul Verhoeven another chance. Maybe he gives us another RoboCop or Total Recall instead of another Showgirls.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. And like you said, misunderstood film here and got some weird critical response. Do you mind if I kind of read a couple of quotes here? So one notable review was from Stephen Hunter at the Washington Post, where democracy dies in darkness. And he titled his review Goose Stepping at the Movies. And I'm just going to read the first couple paragraphs of his review here, Steven Hunter, and then we'll talk about him. Silly Me, I thought the Nazis lost the war. But here's the exceedingly strange new movie. Starship troopers. Commandeering 22 million American dollars in its first weekend and certain to make gobs more while secretly whispering sig Heil. The movie recounts the adventures of a platoon of mobile infantry sometime in the next century, as it does battle with a race of arachnid nasties on the far planet of Klendathu. It's an epic of bug blasting a movie whose script appears to have been the instructions on a can of Raid. And in some profoundly disturbing way, it's Nazi to the core. Okay, so we. We texted about this, and it's.

Steve

This is.

Nic

This is why you're my friend. This is why we do this together. I'm very happy that we are of the same mind of this. Like, what is this guy thinking?

Steve

Okay, I know Wikipedia wasn't real popular, if it existed at all, in 97, it wasn't popular, but it's not hard to find Paul Verhoeven's biography.

Nic

Okay, so to it, to an average person watching this, I could definitely see someone being like, this is kind of a fascist movie, right? Someone who's not thinking about the intentions of the filmmaker who. Who would watch a movie and think that, oh, there's a lot of stuff that the guy who made it didn't mean to put in, which is like, no, the amount of money and time that goes in, like, everything is very intentional, right? And then to understand the career of Paul Verhoeven, who's, like, an excellent satirist across all these genres and subjects, like you've talked about this professional movie reviewer Steven Hunter seemed to have completely missed point of all of this. And one thing that stood out to me on this watch, specifically, that I was like, this is beating you over the head with the fact that it's satire, because it deviates from the original book a bit. And the original book, I believe they live somewhere in North America and, like, US or Canada or something. And in this one, they're in Buenos Aires, Argentina, which, if we know anything about post World War II history, the Rat lines, everything, was kind of a safe haven for a lot of the Nazis. It is not unintentional that it takes place in Argentina, the only country that Nazis went to after World War II. Don't look at Operation Paperclip. Don't look at Warner von Braun or anything. But that, to me, seems like if you're a professional movie reviewer, that should beat you over the head that, you know, this is Definitely satire, you know, and it's not. It's not winking at you the whole time. It surely isn't, but you should know just from the aesthetic. But one quick thing about this guy as well. Stephen Hunter, the reviewer, also an author in his own right, created the character of Bob Lee Swagger, who is Mark Wahlberg's character in the movie Shooter, which I love, I love that movie, but it's a very much like a go go gun guy. He's written a bunch of novels. This is one of these guys who advocates that toddlers should have machine guns attached to their bottles in case someone tries to for safety. So is he against fascism? I don't know what his real opinion is, but I just thought it was funny that the guy who's really off put by this movie is also someone who thinks that you should bring a bazooka to Trader Joe's.

Steve

Right? Yeah, it's interesting and I think you're right about sort of like the willful ignorance around moving Heinlein's characters, major characters, from the United States to Argentina. The fact that the entire cast is white, yet all the characters are named Johnny Rico, Carmen Ibanez, Isabel Florida, Flores.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Have these Hispanic names. Because the idea is that, yes, in this fascistic future, you know, German fascism has to overtake, you know, the white. The Aryan race has destroyed, you know, everything else in the world and is basically, it's like, you know, there's not like every character is white, but like it's. There is a takeover has occurred culturally and everything. And it's like, you know, you can look at it. And if you are the kind of person that looks at a movie and just says, whatever I'm being shown, there's no subtext. It's just context. It's just, this is what I'm watching. Okay, then, yeah, this is going to be a movie that probably upset you and probably very confusing. But the second that you recognize, you know, that like Verhoeven grew up and occupied Holland during World War II and is a very much an anti fascist, like, it becomes obvious and you're right, like the over the top violence, the like, absolutely, like unnecessary horrors of war that are not needed to tell this story, but are absolutely part of the story Verhoeven's trying to tell. Yes, it's like, how is it not more obvious?

Nic

And the aesthetic choices too are fully intentional. Like the uniforms especially that we see that, you know, later on. Carl, Neil Patrick Harris's character, it's like very ss like, I mean, Very intentional. It's intentional. And, you know, this reviewer, I just don't get it. Like, art is not supposed to make you feel comfortable at all times, and especially if it's trying to get a point across to you. Like, you have to squirm a little bit in your seat to, like, settle with, like. Or to reconcile with what this is actually saying about the world.

Steve

Yeah. And true artists who are filmmakers, who are true artists, their work does not exist in a vacuum. You know, Quentin Tarantino's movies do not exist in a vacuum. They exist in the context of all the other movies he's made.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And so when there are choices that he makes, you know, there is context that is built up in other pieces of work he's done, even if it's not literal connections. Right. And sometimes they are literal connections in his work. With Verhoeven, it's the same thing. You cannot look at this movie or look at Total Recall or basic Instagram, anything else and just accept it as, you know, that it's in a vacuum and it only exists as its own piece. Like, you cannot look at a movie like Robocop and think that that is pro police militarization.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Or pro, you know, corporate privatization of public services. You can't look at Total Recall and think that it's pro consumerism and pro, like, you know, go on vacation and travel the universe at any cost. Right.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You can't do that. That is ridiculous. So to look at this movie and think it's pro fascist, it's either willfully ignorant or it's just kind of an uneducated viewpoint of the film. And to, you know, to slightly defend Mr. Hunter here, that was a pretty common take in the late 90s. That this was a pro fascist.

Nic

Sure.

Steve

You know, and that. And that it did not have subtext. And so he wasn't alone in being wrong.

Nic

Right. And I also do want to say this, that this coming out in 1997 and, like, we quote, we like just the, you know, the. The colonizers of the world, whatever, have been doing the same shit for a very long time. But I think if this movie came out in like 2004 or something like that, it would have been received.

Steve

Interesting.

Nic

Better, because that was a more in your face version of, like, what this movie is kind of getting at.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

With. With Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, and the parallels that we have these, you know, these races that we consider to be insects and all this kind of stuff. So I don't know, like, I wonder if it was maybe a victim of the timing that it came up in, like our maybe.

Steve

I don't think Verhoeven gets $100 million to make this movie after 9, 11.

Nic

Oh, yeah. Actually, I don't think that. No, you know, absolutely true.

Steve

It's sort of like it benefited from and suffered from.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve

It came out. So. All right, let's jump into the actual film. Let's do it. Plenty of pretext for Starship Troopers, but.

Nic

It'S important to lay that out. So I'm glad we chatted about that.

Steve

It's absolutely part of. Part of. Frankly, it's hard, you know, if anybody listening thinks we're enjoying the movie in a pro fascist context, I would hate that. That's not at all right. I love this movie because of its sat. Okay, so we start off with FedNet. This is the Federal network. This is a series of like propaganda films and news bites that always end with would you like to know more? And the last movie that we did together was the Naked Gun. And there's a great scene in that where Frank Drebin is in front of a fireworks factory that's burning and exploding and saying, nothing to see here. Nothing's here. Which became a meme.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And one of my favorite meme formats today is the. I'm doing my part. I'm doing my part. Yeah, I'm doing my part. And then cut in Tim Robinson from. I think you should leave. I ain't doing shit. Whatever. Great stuff. But that is part of this. And it's like right off the bat you're hit with this absurd moment of all these soldiers and infantry saying, I'm doing my part. And then like a 10 or 12 year old child fully in body armor going, I'm doing my part.

Nic

It's holding like a big machine gun.

Steve

Like children in the infantry.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And it's like, is this. This is so clearly center. But anyway, yeah, it's fantastic. And it's a really great. You know, Fox News was still a bit of. In its infancy. Ish. In 97. It hadn't, you know, taken hold of the American political consciousness.

Nic

But Even like the 24 news cycle generally hadn't quite arrived.

Steve

Exactly. So to see this was very much like, you know, it was a mix between Rupert Murdoch and Leni Riefenstahl. Right. I mean, that's sort of like where it lives. Yeah, I love this device. Shows up three or four times during the film. The whole Fed Net updates and giving us a peek into the larger society at play here.

Nic

Right, right. And it's also a very effective way of just establishing and explaining things really quick where we don't need a character needing to talk to another character. And they're basically talking about, we're at war with this race of kind of arachnid type alien beings on this planet called Klendathu, which is very far away. And I guess the threat of Klendathu is that these bugs, or some of the bugs are able to shoot some kind of a plasma from their body. And the Klondathu is surrounded by this asteroid field. And basically they can hit it with the plasma. The plasma is the cue ball. And then the asteroid is gonna launch its way towards Earth. So essentially, people we consider to be bugs who are basically throwing rocks. Rocks to defend themselves.

Steve

Exactly. Very good point. During the rocks, however, it's a good point to point out now. Right. We were told all throughout the first half of this movie just how dumb the bugs are and how humans are vastly superior intellectually. You know, that. That attacks from the bugs are random and whatever, all this stuff. And yet right off the bat, we're shown that they are able to send a meteor literally across the breadth of the Milky Way galaxy from their system to ours and hit Earth.

Nic

Right, right.

Steve

So.

Nic

So that means they know trigonometry.

Steve

Yeah, there's some very advanced physics at play here. In order to, you know, essentially make that shot like you did, like the pool example, to really, you know, hit the cue ball on the meteor, as it were. And so it's off the bat, we are told one thing and shown something else. And that is another theme throughout the movie is that we get told that this is reality. But then all of our, you know, the evidence of our eyes and ears. Right. To quote George Orwell, shows. Shows differently.

Nic

Yes, yes, yes.

Steve

So, yeah. So we get into high school in Buenos Aires, Argentina. We are introduced into a classroom with three of our main character or four of our main characters are here. We have Johnny Rico, Casper Van Dean, kind of the main character of the story. His girlfriend, Carmen Aban, is played by Denise Richards and their friends Carl. I don't remember Carl's last name, but it's Neil Patrick Harris.

Nic

Carl Jenkins.

Steve

Carl Jenkins. That's an interesting.

Nic

Yeah, I was a little thrown back Hispanic, but yeah.

Steve

And then Isabel Dizzy Flores, who is quarterback of the football team, but also super in love with Johnny. And Johnny just thinks of her as a friend, basically. So it's a little bit of a love triangle with Carmen, Dizzy and Johnny.

Nic

And it's kind of like a sociology class or something like that.

Steve

Social studies of some kind. Yeah.

Nic

And the teacher is a one armed gentleman played by the great Michael Ironside.

Steve

So good.

Nic

I don't know if he has in his contract with Paul Verhoeven that he needs to lose an arm at some point in a film because he gets his, I believe, both his arms ripped off in Total Recall.

Steve

Yeah, yeah. The number of actors who are in Total Recall who show up in this movie, by the way, is very high. There's several.

Nic

So the teacher is kind of explaining to them, well, there was a failure of democracy or something, so we had to bring stability, which is how fascism explains itself.

Steve

It's the social scientists failed us. The veterans had to step in and instill order by force.

Nic

Patriots are in control. Force is the key to problem solving is another thing that he says. So you can tell that they're getting this very like, you know, fascistic, nationalistic education.

Steve

Right. And it's important to note that, you know, nationalism actually doesn't come into play here. Right. Because we've gotten to this point in human society where it seems like there are no national borders. There is simply the Federation, which is apparently the entire planet. The headquarters is in Geneva and Switzerland. But they all treat everything and all the. The way you become a citizen, all stuff, it doesn't. It doesn't seem to matter where on the planet you live. It's a single global, you know, essentially a new world order. I'm sure that was not unintended.

Nic

But you know, Earth, I guess, the human, that whatever Earth is now out colonizing the rest of the universe. So you're kind of not in a nation but like within your planet. That's your new version of nationalism.

Steve

Exactly. We've moved to the Star wars setup. Right. Where everybody from Alderaan is one way and everybody from Corellia is one way.

Nic

Right, right. So it shows them at school and everything. We're kind of getting the sense of how they are as students and all that. They go to check the scores on their math file and they walk up to this bank of video screens which has a very Demolition man style keyboard.

Steve

There with the little M and Ms. Yeah.

Nic

And they're tapping on that and you could pull your score up. And Carmen, Carmen did very well. She wants to be a pilot in the military. She's decided that she wants to enlist. And she got a 97% on her math. Johnny Rico pulls his up, he got a 35%.

Steve

That's bad.

Nic

And his friend Carl, being a good friend, is somehow able to hack it and bring it from the small screen to where it takes up this entire bank of TVs. So we see Johnny Rico 35% and everyone's kind of sarcastically clapping for him.

Steve

Carl's such a dick. But yeah, so we go from there. So they kind of. Yeah, like, you know, Carmen runs off to talk to a friend because her, you know, his sister or something, went to Fleet Academy where she wants to go to become a pilot. So there's chit chat, but they end up going to like a science class where they have these bugs. I don't know where. They must have like captured them from, you know, one of the bug planets. But they're almost like little larvae. They're like baby ones or something. But they're like beetles. They're still huge.

Nic

It's the size of like a sea turtle.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. Absolutely right. So they have to like flip them over and start dissecting. And so Johnny is cool, man. He is. He's fine. He's cutting it open. He's got the scalpel going. He's pulling stuff out. I was disgusted by the fact that nobody was wearing gloves during this dissection. Like, how do you not. How do you pull organs out of a dead thing and not at least wear gloves? But Carmen is not able to stomach this. She actually ends up blowing chunks all over everything, really, because he hands her like some wiggling organ or something here told this, you know. But he basically. I think the whole point is you have to see how quickly you can name all the parts. I think is because he kind of says, oh, you got heart, lungs, spleen, liver, you know, whatever. And so. But the teacher, who has a very interesting look, we don't ever see this woman again.

Nic

Kind of a Nazi scientist type look a little bit.

Steve

So this is what I think this was a reference to. And I don't know for sure. She has clearly had some part of her face burned. She has like burned scars next to her eyes and these little tiny goggle glasses like things. And I kind of feel like this is a reference to Raiders of the Lost Ark with the little tiny glasses guy. And then his face melts at the end. Like, I felt like that was reference to it. I don't know that for sure. That's absolutely. Could be my own thing. But that's like the vibe I got was this was like a face melted Nazi for raiders. But yeah, but she is basically telling them how, you know, oh, we humans like to think that we are you know, the pinnacle of evolution. Everything but these, you know, bugs. They feel no fear, they feel no pain, so they know they can reproduce by the thousands. Like, it's like they're far. Are superior in these, like, base genetic. You know, in the idea that every species, you know, base instinct is to continue their genetic lineage. They're much better at that than we are. They can even send spores into space to go colonize other planets. Just, you know, and it's so. It's a very interesting take on, you know, something that we all see, you know, we, in this sense, being the humanity of this era, of this universe sees as inferior, but clearly, in some ways, is vastly super superior.

Nic

Right, right. So we have the dissection scene. We get a good scene of. I don't know what to describe this sport. I just wrote future ball.

Steve

It's football. I mean, it looks like arena football, but it's way more fun. There's weird little idiosyncrasies that make it not football. Like a touchdown is worth five points for some reason. There's little weirdnesses, but it's basically like they're all wearing what almost look like exoskeleton suits. They're not just armor because, I mean, Johnny's able to like, like, do some crazy jumps that look real, you know, kind of assisted, I guess, in a sense. But it's basically indoor football. And so Dizzy is the quarterback. Rico is, you know, like a wide receiver. But also, it looks like they. Everybody plays both ways, so, like, he has to play defense then or whatever. And so there's a little back and forth, and we meet a player from the other team. His name is Xander, and great future.

Nic

Name, by the way.

Steve

He and Johnny get into it a couple times. There's tackles on both sides, but Johnny does end up prevailing and his team, you know, thanks to Dizzy throwing him a great pass, and he catches the final touchdown, they end up winning the game, which is like a huge, you know, huge, big deal. But before that can happen, Carmen and the Xander guy start talking. Yeah, Carmen finds out he's shipping off to Fleet Academy, and she is wet in the pants, like, immediately for this guy. I mean, she's like the worst girlfriend. I mean, this is like Joe and Rounders level bad girlfriend. She's. Carmen is garbage to Johnny from Jump street, but, you know, she's very intrigued by this guy because he's going off to Fleet, and that's what she wants to do.

Nic

Xander, real quick for my Saved by the Bell heads. You might recognize the Actor who played Xander, he was in a short stretch of the show. Jeff, who was the manager of the Max, who wanted to date Kelly. So he was dating Kelly. And I think he was like over 18. And they were under 18. But they made fake IDs in an episode to get into an 18 and up club, which Jesus, never do that. But they see Jeff, Jeff the jerk, and he's making out with some other girl when he's supposed to be Kelly's boyfriend. So I always know this guy as Jeff the Jerk. He has one of those great faces of a guy that you're like, oh, I can't wait to see this guy get punched.

Steve

Textile definition of the punchable face, for sure. Textbook. Textbook definition.

Nic

And textile too. We should put it on a shirt. So, yeah. So Rico is kind of flirting with his idea. I think maybe he's been playing with it in his head. But he knows that Carmen, his girlfriend, is going to enlist. She wants to be a pilot. And then Carl, his friend, wants to enlist as well. And he's kind of toying with it. And I think it shows goes Rico back at his house, and he's received some kind of literature about joining up. His parents are like, what's the meaning of this? They're against it. And what his dad says is, you're going to Harvard. And that's final with his 35%.

Steve

No, but I think the whole point here is that clearly Rico's parents are.

Nic

First of all, they're rich and he's an athlete.

Steve

They're civilians. They're not citizens. This is made clear just by the way they talk about service and stuff. So I think the idea is that, yeah, legacies get into Harvard no matter who they are.

Nic

It doesn't matter.

Steve

What Rico scores is he can get into Harvard, right? And so, you know, they talk about a little bit and he's like, I'm gonna do this as my choice. And his dad's like, no, you're not. How about a vacation to Zegima Beach? The Outer Rings. Zegima beach, which it's like, I don't know what the hell that represents.

Nic

There's a beach and the rings of Saturn, right?

Steve

I guess that's what they're talking about. And so, you know, that's what he's gonna do, I guess after. After going. After graduating from high school, he'll go to Zeke beach. And, you know, his parents are satisfied. That's it. But he's got to go to the dance, right? This formal dance, it's like, end of School. And so he's all dressed up in a tux and ready to go. And I think that of all the horrifically dystopian stuff in this movie, which there is a ton of, one of the worst is that their entire high school looks like Bishop Ranch. It looks like a.

Nic

It looks like where we had either a junior was like at an 18 office building, actually. Come on. I thought we were at a rich high school. The shit sucks.

Steve

To be fair, we went to public school, man. So I think that's. But actually, to be honest, the De La Salle Corandelette junior prom that year was also there because I went with a girl from Crandallette.

Nic

Oh, ok.

Steve

Same place. But yeah, anyway, yeah, so dystopian, you know, sort of. It looked like a shopping mall. Again, this is like the worst, like clinical, sterile looking space. And yet they're having this like dance and whatever. And there's like a DJ or the singers or something. I don't know. But it's all very kind of weird and futuristic in like the crappiest possible way.

Nic

Right. And for some of them it's kind of their. Their last day because they're signing up for the military. So this is their. Their last night and everything. Rico has a talk with Mr. Radczyk, who is the. The one armed teacher played by Michael Ironside earlier, who seems, you know, he's definitely a veteran. He has some past in this. And one of the things he was asking the students in the class earlier is, you know, what's the difference between a civilian and a citizen? And, you know, trying to get them to think about it. So I think Rico says about how he's been thinking about signing up and Rad Shack's basically like, you know, your choice is kind of the only thing you have left. So he's encouraging him without directly telling him to do it.

Steve

Yeah. He says, like the only freedom we all actually have. Again. Again.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

This is a totally proficious movie. This is a signal that it's not. Is when he says the only freedom we have is to make up our own minds. Yeah. That everything else has been taken from us. Yeah. And it's like, again, how do you not see the actual point behind this movie? But yes. So he's told like, you got to make up your own mind, Rico. It's the only true freedom that you have. And yeah. So Rico agrees to go with Carmen and Carl to enlist.

Nic

The next day they go, they go to enlist and they get kind of placed pretty quickly into their slots. You know, Carmen is going to be sent to the flight academy to become a pilot. Carl draws his. And they said, what did you get Carl? He's games in theory. Like, oh, that's military intelligence. That's big time. Earlier, we had a quick scene where Carl was sitting with Rico and doing kind of a Ghostbusters, like, couple of wavy lines type scene where there were playing cards and Rico was supposed to project to Karl with his mind what he was seeing or something. So Carl's been dabbling in this ESP.

Steve

And stuff like that. Psychic abilities.

Nic

Yeah, that. So they join and they realize Rico ends up being assigned to Mobile infantry. So he'll be a frontline soldier. The personnel who's signing them up and giving them their assignment says, oh, Mobile infantry made a man out of me. And basically, I think he has one arm. And then he backs away from his chair and he has, like, one leg or no legs.

Steve

He says, mobile infantry made me the man I am today. And he shakes Rico's hands with, like, this metal prosthetic, right? This, like, cybernetic prosthetic. But then as he rolls his chair back, you can see he just doesn't have legs at all. Like, he's got the pinned up, sort of Lieutenant Dan pants, you know, like.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And so Rico takes a moment, goes, oh, okay. All right.

Nic

And then they make a very cheesy promise to each other that, hey, no matter what happens, guys, let's always be friends.

Steve

Right? Let's make sure we're always weird. Yeah. And it's. And it's clear, too, because, like, they're going into different branches, whatever. But also, it seems like they're clearly going into a scenario where Carl is going to outrank both of them, just kind of by nature, what he's doing. And then Carmen is going to outrank Johnny just by the nature of what job she's going to have. And so it's like, in that, you know, in a military setup, like, it's harder, I think, to be friends, you know, with people that you. That you have authority over in that sense. I mean, I don't know that for sure. Maybe that's.

Nic

Yeah, no, that's. That's a very good point. That's a very good point.

Steve

So. So they decide, or they're going to go to the airport, basically. Right? That's like the next thing.

Nic

Yeah. And I think we get an inner cut of a propaganda video. There's the kids who are all, like, fighting over a gun, basically. One of the shoulder, one of the soldiers showing a bunch of school children, his gun.

Steve

And they're kind of holding it back and forth.

Nic

It's like something that only Arnie would have been able to wield in T2. So it shows that, and then it shows an ad for, you know, A murderer was sentenced to death. Execution live tonight at 8pm yeah, he.

Steve

Was arrested this morning, tried this afternoon and sentenced to death. The execution's live Tonight on at 6pm all nets, all channels. So it's like they make sure you see. Everyone sees the execution.

Nic

Absolutely. And I think that that guy. I read in the notes that the. The guy who played the murderer in that scene was the. The writer of the film.

Steve

Oh, really?

Nic

Oh, I think so.

Steve

Interesting.

Nic

Okay, so. So, yeah, I mean, it gives you a good sense of, like, what this world is like. And then we get another news bite that's showing this outpost that was basically overrun by the Iraq. It said a group of Mormon extremists were killed within the Arachnid Quarantine Zone. So basically, just this whole base that was wiped out. People cut in half. Very gruesome.

Steve

Very good. Just lit. Bodies littered everywhere. Yeah, Very, very gruesome. But.

Nic

Yeah, but I mean, imagine if they'd been able to convince those Clandathu about Mormonism. It would have been worth it.

Steve

It would have been interesting. They could have saved some souls. So, yeah, so they're now at the airport the next day, ready to leave, and Carmen and Rico are saying goodbye to each other. And, you know, basically, Rico is like, you know, hey, just say it. Once tried on for size, and she says, I love you, Johnny. He does not say I love you back. Like, what? That was just. He just wanted her to say. And he's like, all right, cool deuces. Have fun at Academy. Like, that was so weird, Johnny. Like, why don't you say I love you as well?

Nic

Casper Van Dien, Denise Richards. Not a lot of future starring roles. Right.

Steve

I mean, wild things, you know.

Nic

Right. But it seems like there was something that Verhoeven was going for.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

I mean, one with how they look because they're, like, undeniably beautiful people to look at. And I think if you're making something that's like a satire of a propaganda film, you want your side to look, like, the most beautiful according to, like, whatever standards as you can.

Steve

Classical Western beauty, blue eyes, pale skin, fair hair. I mean, the whole deal, you know? Like, so.

Nic

And Casper Van Dien is an actor. I don't know if he's just like, we got into this a few episodes Ago about, like, is it an actor making a choice or is it somebody. Was he playing a really good dumb guy or is he just the level of actor where it's like, you're a soap opera guy. It would be real. You would come off really funny in this role because you don't have the chops to, like. Like, he doesn't have the charisma to be this lead necessarily.

Steve

Yeah. He reminds me of God. Who? There were the twin brothers. One of them was in Mallrats and the other was in Dazed and Confused. Jeremy and Jason. O. London. London. Thank you. Yeah, he reminds me of them.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

It's like, yeah, not terrible. Actually good enough to do the job. Don't get me wrong. Like, they're not like, geeks off the street or whatever. Right. But no, this is not. This is not a series of really great creative choices being made.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

This is a person, you know, barely able to tread water and keep their head above the script is really what it feels like to me. I felt the same way with the London boys, that they were both sort of, like, out of their elements in almost every good movie they were in.

Nic

Yeah. Yeah.

Steve

And so, yeah, I feel very much the same way about Cassie.

Nic

And, hey, I like him, but it seems like he was put there for a reason. That's, again, I think Verhoeven being brilliant, putting these actors and knowing their limitations, knowing how it would come across. But I did see some quotes from him after the fact saying, you know, in retrospect, maybe I should have thought more about what kind of actors they were rather than just how they looked. That's not the exact quote, but it was to that. To that degree.

Steve

Maybe the satire would have been more obvious with, like, a more nuanced performance.

Nic

Yeah, I guess so.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

All right, well, now we're off at boot camp.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And we get some action here.

Steve

We get. Was it Sergeant Zim? Right. Is that Sergeant Zim, our boot basic training leader?

Nic

The warden from. Or not the warden. The main guard from Shawshank.

Steve

Shawshank, that's right.

Nic

Great actor.

Steve

Absolutely. And he says a line that I think slips past you initially, but you really need to hear it because he does not say that most of you will not make it through basic training. He says most of you will not live to join the Mobile Infantry. So he is saying most. Now, this doesn't end up becoming true, but he is saying to them, most of you are going to die here.

Nic

Great.

Steve

Before you even get into the military, I'm going to kill you.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Essentially what he says. And it's like so dark and so dystopian, and yet I still think. I think it slips past a lot of people. But yeah, he says, most of you will not live to join the Mobile Infantry. Like, damn.

Nic

And he does. I mean, you know, and it's that type of guy's job, I guess, to toughen people up immediately. Right off the bat, he's talking to his new recruits. He says, you know, which. Any of you think you could take me, right?

Steve

If you knock me down anybody?

Nic

And one of the. One of the bigger dudes, you know, raises his hand. He says, yeah, sure, I'm going to come. And Zim beats him up and then mercilessly breaks his wrist. Like, not a twisting break. I mean, just snaps his forearm.

Steve

It.

Nic

So, you know, then he's off. Call for the medic.

Steve

This is kind of a pain is in your mind. It's like, no, dude, it's in the compound fracture of his fucking, like, arm, dude.

Nic

And then, you know, they shout for the medic. And this is kind of a recurring theme here. And then walking up to the crew as, like, Rico and all of his fellow recruits are, there is Diz.

Steve

Yeah. Dizzy's back.

Nic

He's walking up and he sees her and he's kind of giving her a pissed off look because he feels like. Like this girl's man, this super hot girl who's into all this, the same stuff as me, is so annoying and clearly wants me. Yeah.

Steve

Like, yeah.

Nic

But basically, Diz immediately gets into hand to hand compact with Zim and does pretty well, but ends up, you know, getting choked out with his knee on her neck and this gnarly bruise on the side of her neck. So it's merciless. And it's kind of funny that they disregard once they're in the military, really. Like, race and gender is disregarded as long as you're a psycho killer, you know, so it's like we accept every type of looking psycho.

Steve

Right? Exactly. There is an egalitarianism to it.

Nic

Right.

Steve

But it is only against the backdrop of this sort of, like, dystopian existence.

Nic

Yeah. One person who is from another film that you might have spotted and might enjoy here. So we get back and the guy who had his arm broken by the sergeant, like, they're in the chow line and they're just yapping it up and pushing each other around or whatever. This redhead with short hair. This woman is the girl in Swingers that Trent gets her phone number, the one with the cigar and he Gets her phone number and then turns around and rips it up.

Steve

I wrote that down, too.

Nic

What an iconic role there.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, so, like. And the crazy part is that Diz is in the chat in the mess hall, whatever, talks to Johnny, and he's like, hey, like, I want. I was doing this to get away from everything. And then, you know, you came and followed me. And she. She goes, who's saying I followed you? And he's. You saying you didn't. It's like, at the dance, she had said she was going to play for Rio. Right. Unless Tokyo lets me start. So, obviously there is this professional version of this game they're playing in high school, and she was very good at it.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And able to play. So she gave up a professional sports contract, which. Which, look, I don't know everything about this future society that, you know, has been cooked up for the movie, but if it's as dark and shitty as I think it is, then you can probably also buy your way into citizenship. And if she had been a professional sports athlete, I think she would have been able to get it that way, too. But she is there for Johnny. I mean, it's like she can say whatever she wants, but she is there for Johnny. And he is not crazy to think that.

Nic

And. Yeah. And he doesn't like it. He doesn't want to sit with her. Whatever. Another training scene that we have, they're all throwing knives into a target on the wall. And. And it's kind of, you know, funny because it's a laser gun war. And one of the characters played by Jake Busey, Gary Busey's son, Ace, who's kind of like, rico. Hey, Rico, I'm your buddy. I'll be your buddy, buddy. I really liked him in this.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he says, hey, Sergeant, what's the point of learning to throw knives? Like, in a nuke war? Like, just press a button. What are we doing here? And he goes, put your hand up on that wall. He's like, what? Put your hand up on that wall. And he sticks his hand up on the wall. And the sergeant just absolutely hums a knife right into the middle of his palm.

Steve

Like Ted Lasso playing darts.

Nic

Just gross. Like, through his hand. And he's screaming in. And he says, basically, you can disable your enemy's hand. He can't press the nuke button.

Steve

Your enemy cannot press a button if he cannot control his hand.

Nic

Which is cool, except also, our enemy are not really ones with hands.

Steve

Right. I mean, I guess there must still be Some human on human fighting happening somewhere in the world or something. But you know, but yeah, then after. This is, you know, one of kind of the more memorable scenes in the entire film. The shower scene.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So this is a co ed shower scenario. There are no stalls. There's just some like, you know, big stands up, big, big shower, heads up, coming to the middle of the floor and out of the walls. And it's men and women all together. They're all butt naked and they're chatting. And this is a really, really interesting scene to me. Well, okay, first of all, this was my favorite scene when I was young because a lot of boobies, a lot of butts. It was great. Yeah. But now it's one of my favorite scenes because it's so interesting that a. It's this juxtaposition of this egalitarian society where they really do seem to be treating each other's equals. The men are not checking the women out. Their eyes are on eyes. Like if you look at like where everybody's looking and how they're talking to each other, there is no sexual innuendo. Nothing about this is sexy. It is just a bunch of people together showering because they need to get clean. And they're all together in this and they're chatting. So there's something very wholesomely egalitarian about that. Then we get into what they're talking about. So one of the guys is like, I'm going to be a writer. I came into getting the military service because I want to like learn more and travel and like, you know, whatever. And I'm going to write about it and I'm going to ask questions. And he's asking everybody, why are you here? One of them is here because she wants to get into politics. And if you want to be politics, you got to be a citizen. One of them's here because she wants to have babies someday. And it's much easier to get a license to have a child if you're a citizen. One person wants to be there because he got into Harvard but his dad couldn't afford to send him. One person wants to go because if he stays where he is, he'll just work the family farm and he wants to get out of it. Like there is this combination of the reasons people today go into the military. From poverty, no other options to pay for school, like all kinds of stuff with some really dark versions of that. The whole like licenses for children, you know, it feels very Demolition man. Oh, in that sense, sure.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But yeah, so I love this thing, because it really is in many ways a micro. It is the most distilled view of what is this society like? It is, this glossed, the glossy front of it is, is sort of clean and egalitarian and everybody's equal, you know. Well, not equal, but like, you know, everybody within civilians, within citizens is equal. And you can transit between the two. Right. There's nothing, not hard and fast casts like there is in a lot of societies today. But it's all underpinned with this just absolute darkness and this absolute dystopia that is just really all of humanity has been clamped down on in so many ways. And this scene in particular really draws that out. And it's another one where it's like, were you listening when you were watching this movie, were you listening to these characters? And are you really suggesting that this is the filmmaker's intention to tell you this is good, right?

Nic

I mean, because a character doesn't say, man, it's so, so messed up, we need to get a license to have a baby. It's like of course not there. This is ingrained in them.

Steve

Right?

Nic

Like we're not supposed to take these people's cues as like how to feel about all this. Like we're viewing this as outsiders.

Steve

It's basically a series of orphan crushing machine stories.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You know that term, right? And, and it's basically like we see these all the time, right? Like oh, like you know, man at Walmart, 85 year old greeter at Walmart still works so he can pay off his wife's medical debt. It's like that's not good story. No, that's not a good, a feel good story. That is an orphan crushing machine. We don't ask how did the person save the orphans from the orphan crushing machine. We ask why the fuck is there an orphan crushing machine? Yeah, and it's, it's. Yeah, that's what this is. And so I think to not be able to see that if you are looking at this film critically was a pretty huge mess. But let's move forward.

Nic

No, hey, hey, maybe hey, Robert Hunter, if you're still around. Stephen Hunter the show@2dads1movie.com the number two.

Steve

And the number one.

Nic

So now we're kind of moving away from boot camp. And we have Carmen who's in flight school. And Carmen is in the seat. Her other trainee co pilot is played by Amy Smart who doesn't get to do a whole lot in this movie. I love her. I love that movie. Just friends.

Steve

Just friends. I Don't know if I've seen that one.

Nic

Ryan Reynolds, very early ryan Reynolds, late 90s. And basically he was her. Our best friend in high school. And he was kind of like a fat, dorky guy, so it was like a fat suit thing. But now he's Ryan Reynolds and Christmas time. It's not a bad, not a bad one anyway. But she appeared in a lot of these kind of like, you know, mid level movies made for people our age.

Steve

Mox's girlfriend in Varsity Balloon, stuff like that.

Nic

And then the instructor who's been there just for a little bit longer is the rival from the future ball game, Xander.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And. And Carmen is, you know, doing a lot of irresponsible bullshit with the ship. Yeah, she's really cutting, cutting things close with this. I mean, it's not like if you work at Enterprise, they're going to be like, hey, be careful how you take those corners, all right? It's going to cost $400 to fix that bumper. I can't even fathom the budget that goes into these giant.

Steve

No, no, no, no. Billions of dollars. The captain of the ship, by the way, is one of my favorite character actresses and someone we've seen before for on the show, it's Brenda Strong. So I've always pointed. She played Sue Ellen Mishke on Seinfeld and one of the main characters, one of the larger characters on Sports Night, Suellen Mishke, of course on Cybo is the woman who walked around wearing just a bra that made Kramer crash.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

But she was also. She was Nurse Gretchen in Spaceballs. She was the plastic surgeon's assistant to give Great helmet. That whole thing. So I love Brenda Strong and she, she shows up here as the captain of the ship that Carmen's been assigned to.

Nic

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. So we have Carmen there, and then we have Rico and Diz back in boot camp and they're like winning a kind of laser capture the flag game by incorporating some of the plays from their football past together.

Steve

Yeah, exactly.

Nic

And they're impressed by Rico. They see some leadership in him and they make Rico squad leader.

Steve

Squad leader.

Nic

So he's excited about that. At the same time, then Carmen is sending him a video showing like, this is what my life is like. This is amazing. I think I'm going to go career. I think I want to be on this side of world. The, the world essentially breaking up. Like, we can't be together if I'm going to be.

Steve

If I'm going to be career doing this. Like, we're not going to be together, so what's the point? Like, I'm so sorry. I know it's not you want to hear, but basically breaking up with him. I don't think she literally says we're not together anymore, but, like, it's pretty clear. And all of his bunk mates are like, oh, man, so sorry they ripped your heart.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Tripped your heart out and everything. And. And it's a bummer for him. But of course, you know, the dizziest scene is sort of noticing that this has occurred. I'm sure she's cooking up all kinds of plans in her head.

Nic

Right. So the next exercise they're doing is they're doing this capture the flag type thing again. But it's a live ammunition course. And this is where, you know, something happens.

Steve

The tragedy strikes.

Nic

Basically, the Farmer character who we'd seen the guy who had his arm broken, whose name was Breckenridge.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

During the course of this, he has a malfunction in his helmet with the communication. Rico instructs him, take your helmet off. Let me have a look at it. A bullet ricochet.

Steve

Somebody falls and shoots. Right there was the woman who was going to go into Paul politics. And, you know, she is hit by one of the lasers from the, like, dummies they're supposed to be shooting. And it spins her around. And as she falls, she, like, pulls the trigger on a rifle and basically blows Breckenridge's head square off his body. Which, of course, you know, then Rico yells for medic. Everybody kind of stops. And yeah, you know, they slow down. And it's like all we hear initially is Zim going, rico, you are relieved of your command. Like, you know, and so now he has to be. He's brought before, you know, the commandant of the Booth boot camp, played by Hank Schrader from Breaking Bad. Rico. Rico.

Nic

Yeah. And he's basically sentenced to. They say we've already lost two good recruits off this. The guy who got killed and then the woman who had shot him. It showed her kind of like walking out in street clothes.

Steve

Don't know if she was kicked out or if she quit based on what happened to what. But she's gone. Yeah.

Nic

And Rico is sentenced to administrative punishment. Ten lashes.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Which looks brutal.

Steve

Brutal. Very brutal. And he. We hear all 10. He's got the leather, you know, the wrapped up, like, leather in his mouth to, like, bite down on for the first few. But that falls out of his mouth after, like, the fifth one. Yeah. Brutal, Brutal lashing and. And Then he's, you know, ready to leave. I think he basically is kind of like, I'm gonna go. Like, I'm not gonna stick around for this. Which is a little crazy, it feels like, because you've got taken your punch punishment and now.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You know, I almost would have been like. If they were like, hey, we're not going to kick you out. We're going to give you 10 lashes. You'd be like, could you kick me out instead? Seriously, Whatever. So. But he tells Dizzy, like, he's going to. He's going to quit, you know. And so he's packing his bags and he starts heading out towards what they call washout lane. The walking out the thing. And then there is.

Nic

And he calls his parents.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

To tell him that he's coming home.

Steve

Yeah. He was like, hey, guys, I'm going to let you know, I'm going to go. I'm going to be back soon. And then they. The call gets cut off because there's like darkening skies over over there overhead. It's like, oh, it's weird rain this time of year kind of thing. Actually, I think we skipped, like, where Carmen, up on the ship. They almost got hit by an asteroid that flew by.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And that's important. And they tried to call back to Earth to say, hey, a bug, asteroids coming, meteorite, whatever. But their communications tower was destroyed as the meteorite kind of struck them. So they weren't able to put that call in. And so what ends up happening is a new blood meteorite gets through, you know, global defenses and hits Buenos Aires. And so that's everybody at boot camp is now rushing over to the TV screens to see what's going on, you know. And Rico asked, what's happening? War. We're going to war. And one of my favorite lines from is the redhead, the one from Swingers, looks at Johnny and goes, goddamn bugs. Whack this Johnny. It's just the way she says it is. Very good.

Nic

So many cheesy, cheesy lines there. Earlier, when Rico is talking to his parents, he's the way he says, this always killed me. From the first time I saw the movie, he's like, I've been an idiot. His delivery is really funny.

Steve

And that's why I don't think they were choices by Mr. Van Dien.

Nic

Yeah, I think you're right. Buenos Aires got nuked essentially from this bug meteor. It said 8.7 million people dead. Just absolutely fully wiped out.

Steve

Yeah. Over 12 million more wounded destroyed it. So then we cut to the FedNet stuff. And we get Sky Marshal Dean Teens, played, by the way, by the actor who played Ian Miller's father on My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which is a fun movie as well. But, yeah, he, you know, basically says, like, yeah, we're gonna strike back. Blah, blah, blah, whatever. And the next one is like a commercial, right? Because it's like half of these are like little ads, little propaganda ads. And this is a bunch of kids stomping cockroaches on the street. And the absolutely, like, black hole sun video level maniacal laughing of their mother is so unnerving.

Nic

That is such a good description.

Steve

Just the one wide smile maniacal laughing of these kids crushing cockroaches under their feet. It's just so gross. And another point where I'm like, how do you not tell? This is satire, Right? But it's super crazy.

Nic

I'm doing my part. And then so. So we're back before they're going off to war. We're at, you know, where the troops are stationed. And there's a reporter who we see a couple times throughout this movie, and he's giving a report and talking about what happened in Buenos Aires. He does say something about. About, well, you know, we have been colonizing all these. You know, some people say that our colonization of the universe is leading to this. And maybe a live and let live approach would. And he gets cut off. And Rico comes in and just says, I'm pump Buenos Aires. And I say, kill them all.

Steve

Yeah. Yep. It's. Yeah, it's. Again, it's kind of. That's. Some of this is on the nose. And I don't know how you could not, you know, see it. But. So basically they're there and apparent. I think they're actually on the ship that Carmen is, like, piloting or something. Or they're in the same place. They're coming from the same place. So now the mother infantry is being taken by fleet to Klendathu. That's the whole point, right? That they're being, like, deployed. And so Xander and Carmen are there. Rico and his crew are there. And there's this, like, kind of back and forth. One thing I noticed is in the background at this point, Massie Stars Fade into youo is playing. I'm like, wow, Mazzy Star survived this long. That's fantastic.

Nic

Great song, by the way.

Steve

Fantastic song.

Nic

Absolutely.

Steve

But a little anachronistic for the time.

Nic

Yeah, it's the first time I noticed it. And it so didn't fit, really, but it was sticking with me back in. I think 2017 was the first year in California when we had a few years in a row of really bad wildfires where you couldn't go outside for a week because of the smoke and stuff like that. And the night those fires started, my wife and I were in Sonoma at the Gundlach Bunchu Winery watching Hope Sandoval of Mazzie Star play. And we couldn't finish the concert because it was getting windy and windy and windy. It was crazy. And I remember running down to the car, which was parked super far away, to come pick up her and her sister because. And they were like. We were watching, like, things on fire, like, blow across the road as we were leaving. So there's always this, like, apocalyptic association I make with Mazzie Starr. That's not fair to Hope Sandoval or the band. But that is a killer song. And it was just really funny that that was playing in the background during the fight.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah, I think. So what happens is then Xander and Rico get in a fight, basically over Carmen. Yeah, right. Which is like, this chick is not worth fighting over this way. She hasn't been good to anybody. But yeah, they basically, you know, they fight for a while, but then gets broken up and, you know, Rico gets pulled back by Ace and Dizzy and.

Nic

The guys and they get their tattoos.

Steve

Yeah, they decide to get all their tattoos together. Death from Above, Mobile infantry, whatever. At which point, Ace decides for kicks, to pour alcohol over the brand new fresh tattoo. That's not cool. Cool. Don't do that, man. But also, these are like weird future tattoos that are instantly healed, which is kind of cool because that's sort of the worst part of getting the tattoo is the healing shortly after. But yeah, so now.

Nic

So they're on their way there and they feel like they're. They're going to Clandathu, but they're not expecting to be under attack to the degree that they are.

Steve

Yeah, we're told. Brendan Strong's captain character tells Xander and Carmen, hey, you know, Intelligence said these plasma blasts from the surface, they're going to be few and they're going to be random, right? Well, they start hitting things. Like, they start clearly, they're aiming at the ships and they start hitting them. And she's like, somebody made a huge mistake. This isn't, you know, few or random. So they are, you know, into maneuver around them, you know, like emergency maneuvers and all this stuff. And then they actually get hit as well. Before that, though, they do mention. Xander says, like, we are you know, we're all deployed or ever. So all the infantry who are on board did get to their drop ships. They're on their way down to the planet kind of while this plasma is being shot up into the sky. One or two dropships get hit. But I think they're very small. They're more easily sort of able to avoid things. I noticed as they land on the planet surface and the infantrymen start, you know, piling out of these. Looks very, you know, landing of Normandy beach kind of idea. They are shooting something up into the sky. Like there's, like, rockets or something. And I'm like, what? What are they shooting at? That's not. Like the ships up there are theirs.

Nic

Just to throw in case. They're like heat bug plasma. You can. You can throw it off.

Steve

It was very strange, but, yeah. So they're shooting something in the air. It does not make any sense.

Nic

Interesting. So. So they land on the planet and they're kind of, you know, immediately in the shit. Right. There's all these arachnids after them. At this point, because Rico had been relieved of his duty. Ace is the squad leader.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And he's leading him through. And they're kind of shooting some aliens. And then all of a sudden they're, like, surrounded. Yeah, right. And they're like, ace, what do we do? And he kind of frees him. And Rico, this kills me so much. Rico, because he definitely has leadership and smarts and strategic brilliance here. They look to him and he says, kill him. Kill them all.

Steve

Very subtle.

Nic

And that's it. There's some good chaos here. At the very beginning of the film, when we're shown the newsreel There is shown live news footage of that reporter who's there on the planet with the infantry. So we're kind of caught up to the very beginning of the film now. And they end up getting attacked. The reporter gets pulled up. The cameraman gets hit. Rico gets stabbed in the leg, Basically. It looks bad for Rico, you know, left for dead. And then they're saying on the news thing. 100,000 dead in one hour.

Steve

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And real quick, I want to mention, like. So when they first sort of see one of these big plasma shooting bugs. They have, like, these nuke bazookas, right? And so they're actually, like, firing a nuclear warhead at the thing that does blow it up. But like, a battlefield nuke has to be a terrible idea. Like, that's going to have ramifications for your own army. So my thing is that there's that. And then their guns seem to be firing bullets. These are not laser weapons.

Nic

Right.

Steve

These are conventional, you know, physical ballistics. And so do they really not have anything in between a bullet and a nuke? Because it takes way too long to kill these bugs with their rifles. Right. I mean, it takes.

Nic

It takes like four guys, 40 or 50 bullets to kill one of them.

Steve

Wild. And so they have that or they have the nukes. And those are the only two weapons we ever see them use on the battlefield.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

Is some version of like a, you know, 556 or whatever gun and then a nuke. And it's like, really, all this, you know, time and all this advancement and like, you know, space travel and everything else, you couldn't come up with a weapon in between those two? That would be like. Like the thing, you know, Wesley Snipes has in Demolition man that has to, like, warm up and then shoot. Like, they could add something.

Nic

Yeah. Anyway, it is kind of funny, though. I mean, if you look at now, like, the stuff that the infantry members of the military are using as far as machine guns and stuff like that, it probably hasn't advanced too much since, like, World War II, Korean War. Like, a lot of this technology, even the planes were using the planes that were the Future in 1985. But now it's like, why is the Top Gun plane still our main fucking plane? It's so far after that.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So we're shown 100,000 dead in one hour. And then we get kind of a talking Head Crossfire style show.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

With one guy who really reminds me of how Tucker Carlson was on the Jon Stewart appearance on Crossfire in the early 2000s. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

Just ran him down. But this is such a goofy guy. And he's just. He says the other person is talking about, well, there might be, like, a brain bug. There might be something around this, some intelligence. And the guy says, frankly, I find the idea of a bug that thinks offensive.

Steve

Right. Yeah. Well, good for you, pal. But, like, it doesn't mean that's not real facts. Doesn't care about your feelings. Right, Right. But, yeah, so that's. So then what happens is basically, the sky marshal gets, you know, steps down. Because it's a. It was a horrible move to just think they could, you know, take the infantry onto Clindapu and just wipe things up one on one. Basically terrible idea. Totally underestimated the enemy. So they step down. New sky marshal comes in and is like, we're going to figure this out. We're going to. We're going to protect the human race. Like, we're going to. We're going to get it right. So they start with like an actual bombing run on. On. Not on Clandathy, but like one of the outlying systems. Well, I know. I guess we should say before we get to that, oh, Rico, Rico, join a new team. Right. Because it's like Rico's KIA According to something that Carmen sees.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

But then we see him in like. Reminded me of like, Empire Strikes Back. Luke in the back to Tank. Right. He's in some kind of like, healing thing that's sewing up his leg where he took a bug. You know, forceps or whatever.

Nic

It's like where Lilu Dallas came from in the Fifth Element.

Steve

Exactly. That kind of thing. Yeah. And so he's like, floating in this stuff. And it's Ace and Dizzy show him his paperwork that says he's kia, which is like, funny. I don't really even know why they. They did that, except to give Carmen the idea that he's dead. But it's like, how did that mistake happen? And then why is he immediately able to get re. Registered to like, a new team or whatever if he's, you know, officially documented to being dead? Like, it's very strange, but they get assigned to a new group, the Roughnecks. And so basically the only ones that are left are Ace, Dizzy, and Rico. And so they join this new group and who's the. They hear that the lieutenant's a real ball buster. And Ace says this a few times or I think he says, and the other troops don't.

Nic

They don't stand for that. So they're basically starting. They're like, you don't know how many times this guy saved my life. He saved my life too. One of the other troops, I don't know if you recognize this guy. The black dude, bald head. He played Carver in the Wire. And he was also the priest in Walking Dead.

Steve

I don't know how long I never.

Nic

Watched Walking Dead that went for. But he was on the wire for the stretch of it, so it was a familiar actor. I was like, oh, he got. Could have been the lead. He actually is an actor, right?

Steve

He's actually an actor.

Nic

But yeah, Radhak is the lieutenant. And they're immediately going. And there's no, like, oh, good to see you. Hey, sorry about everybody, you know, from the town that we both are from.

Steve

Right.

Nic

It's just all business right away.

Steve

Yeah. And he's got a mechanical arm now instead of just having the stump that he had at the beginning of the movie. And he is there. And he says he's got one rule. Everyone fights, nobody quits. If you don't do your job, I'll shoot you myself.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Okay. Well, I guess, you know, setting expectations is really important. I'm glad that he's able to so clearly set expectations with his team.

Nic

Yeah. And. And now they end up on this. On this planet here, where the air strikes had taken place. And they're there to clean up.

Steve

Yeah. And that makes a lot more sense. Right. You come in with these, like, bomb. Clearly very effective. Almost like a napalm, you know, bombing. They're really killing a ton of these arachnids with these bombs. And then they send down mobile infantry to sort of clean up. And initially, they are sort of just walking through, you know, carcasses. And it doesn't look like much. But they end up getting in a fight, you know, with. With some bugs that are there. And then a big one, one of these big. I think it's the same ones that do the plasma shooting from their butts. They can also shoot flames, basically, from their faces.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And it's sort of like a liquid that is on fire. So it fall. It doesn't shoot. It shoots, like a flamethrower sort of idea. Right. Where the flame, like, falls a bit after a little distance. But basically, like, they can't beat this thing. Like, it's very hard. Right. They've already used a.

Nic

The bullet aren't doing much.

Steve

The thing is so big. And the armor, the exoskeleton so thick. So Rico gets the idea to get up onto, like, the cliff, you know, above it and jump onto it. And then sort of use his gun to shoot a hole into its carapace in the back. And he just basically tosses a grenade down into it and flies, you know, whatever. It's basically Luke and the Walker on Hoth.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Same kind of idea. And then he's, like, flown. Thrown free from it and it explodes. And he took it. I mean. And everybody's like, dude, that's amazing.

Nic

And it gives us another cool scene, by the way.

Steve

Very cool scene. Very good action scene. Scene. One of the other sort of soldiers who's like. I think maybe the corporal or the sergeant that, you know, was working with Radcheck. She loses her arm. The flaming bug, like, burns her arm off or whatever. So she obviously can't, you know, continue as a leadership role, at least. Which Gives Rico there's an opening. Now he's a field promotion to corporal. Yep, basically. And so.

Nic

And Radcheck says, I need a corporal. Rico, you're it until you're dead. Or until I find someone better.

Steve

That's right. Yeah, exactly. So then we. We kind of cut to the evening of the same day and, you know, got a case of beer and a couple of kegs of beer and some entertainment, which looks like footballs and a fit. Yeah, it's very interesting. But they're having a little party. They're celebrating, whatever. And one of the guys comes over to Rico, and another one of the lines I love is like, rico, you kill bugs good. And that was a choice. And you could tell the way that actor delivered that. That was a choice. That was like. There's a way you can tell that.

Nic

Might have been the guy I was talking about.

Steve

Exactly. And clearly an actor, because that was such a fantastic deadpan delivery of like, a crappy grammatical line. Yes, Rico, you kill bugs good. He, like, gives him a beer, you know, like.

Nic

And they're. They're having this celebration, and. Yeah, it's great. And finally, Rico and Diz, right, end up hooking up.

Steve

And again she says to him, I love you, Johnny. He does not say back, this man has had two beautiful women.

Nic

What's he holding out for?

Steve

They love him. And he can't say it back. This real. You know, of all your faults, Johnny Rico, that is one of the biggest I know.

Nic

Geez. They're about to hook up, and then Rad Check basically pops his head in and says, you know, rico, we need you out of here in. In 10 minutes.

Steve

We're mobilizing again. Party's over. Yeah.

Nic

And then he sees some rustling under the. He's like, who is that? She pops her head up, and then he goes, I'll make it 20 minutes. And, you know, so they. They hook up and, you know, all good for that. And she does say that she loves him, which is whatever. You're in the battlefield. We're all going to die. Say what you want to say.

Steve

What does this guy have to offer besides his jawline? Like, really, this guy just has.

Nic

He's 100% jawline.

Steve

Yeah. Oh, my God.

Nic

So. So now we're kind of on a new patrol, and they're in this distress signal.

Steve

Basically. They got a distress signal. They had to go, you know, answer it. And so, yeah, they're, like, walking through and trying to figure out, you know, what. What's going on in there? And Rico's looking through some binoculars or whatever and looking up at the. There's, like, rocks coming down from above. So it's like, what's going on? And there is a little flutter of maybe, like, wings or something. But he doesn't really seem to notice or see anything, which I would have been like, hey, lieutenant, I think I see something over that ridge. Like, he clearly saw something that's not.

Nic

A person talking about here.

Steve

So then red check sends his actual sergeant, who's got the comms pack up to. He's like, yeah, he's like, I can't get anything on the comms. Oh, well, it's this canyon. Get up to higher ground, you know, and do it from there. Well, he does that. But then, yeah, one of these flying, like, dragonfly sort of bugs, you know, comes and grabs him and is, like, fleeing there and. And it's just all bad. And he's about to get, like, eaten alive. And Rad Shack gets a sniper rifle and puts one through his heart. And he's like, I expect everyone in this squad to do the same for me. And it's like. I mean, I get that. That part.

Nic

No, I mean, that's. That's a good, you know, part of it. The mercy. The mercy killing.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

They end up coming across the distress signals coming from this base, which looks very similar to that, like, Mormon outpost that it showed earlier.

Steve

It's clearly like a prefab fort. Usually get set up. Right.

Nic

A kit for it or whatever.

Steve

Costco.

Nic

Yeah, it's from temu. And they go in there and just. Everyone's dead. Like, this distress signal is coming from somewhere where literally everyone's dead. You could tell that the bugs came in and took this whole thing over. There's nobody there that they can find. Except then they hear this sound inside of a cabinet, and there's a very cowardly, whimpering general character who's like, oh, they're gonna kill us all. Very panicking. A good. Get ahold of yourself. Where you get to slaps. I need a superior officer, see? Someone who needs to get a hold of themselves so bad. It would be your honor. I'm sorry. They needed to get a hold of themselves, so I slapped them.

Steve

Universal clear clearance for assault is that they needed to get a hold of themselves.

Nic

So this is a really cool scene here.

Steve

Yes. Yeah. So basically, they find the radio operator or the communications operator and his. He's got a hole in his head almost the size of a baseball ball. And, you know, Ratchet literally reaches into it and there's no brain in there. They sucked his brain out. And that's when they find the General. And when he comes out, he talks about how they get into your mind. They make you do things. And they realize, oh, shit, this was not actually a distress signal. Everybody was dead. And the bugs used this human by controlling him, you know, sort of ratatouille style. Except from the inside of the head, you know, and made the stress call. It was a trap. They've been trapped. And so now they leave Diz to try to find. Fix the comms, you know, communications array so they can reach out to the fleet. And they now have to. They look over the fence of this outpost. And an absolute huge swarm of arachnids coming out. I mean, like, no amount of their rifles is going.

Nic

Not enough weapons, nothing. Yeah.

Steve

And so they start attacking. And, you know, one thing I've noticed is, like, it's very much like. I feel like this happens in zombie movies a lot. Like, as zombies come attacking some fortified position. Position. And you're killing them. They start climbing the dead bodies. Exactly. The arachnids are now climbing the pile of dead arachnids. As they're trying. Because there's. This base has a couple of really big machine gun turrets. They're able to do some decent damage on an. On an individual bug by bug basis. Right. This is not a winning proposition for them. They need to get a drop ship. There's a point where the General is just absolutely freaking out and like, oh, we're all dead. We're all gonna die. Oh, my God. And then it's like these flying bugs are coming down. And one of them gets shot. First of all, they're cutting heads off left and right.

Nic

Yes. Every time the flying limbs and heads.

Steve

Flying heads cut in half, heads cut off. It's really, really maniacal when these crazy flying bugs come. But one of them gets shot by the big machine gunner or maybe by a shotgun or something. And it sort of like loses control of its flight path, but flies right into the General, just smearing him across the ground. So he's gone. We don't got to worry about him anymore.

Nic

And when that happens, Ace and Rico give each other a kind of look. Look like.

Steve

There'S one less thing we got to worry about.

Nic

It's a living. Like.

Steve

Another day at the office.

Nic

It's funny how they react. And honestly, it was good seeing that guy. Because that guy was very annoying. So, yeah, the bugs, they're getting overrun. And they're like, we need a rescue.

Steve

Or we're all dead. Yeah.

Nic

You better have a crazy pilot.

Steve

Yeah, right. Hope you've got a crazy pilot come down on this transmission inside the outpost. I hope you got a crazy pilot foreshadowing. That will be revealed in 20 seconds.

Nic

So, of course, then Carmen ends up flying the evacuation ship into there and Xander. And it looks like, okay, we're getting out. I mean, guys are getting killed as they're trying to get in. But all of a sudden, the ground is breached, I believe. And Radcheck is pulled underneath, so he's basically halfway. So he's losing his legs as well or whatever. So Rico needs to. Ratcheck says, like, you know what to do do. He mercy kills Radheck. And then on their way out as well, at the very last second, Diz gets really slashed as she's getting onto the transport. So she gets on there with them, and then they. And then they take off.

Steve

I have always wished in watching this. I mean, literally from the first viewing of this movie, I really wished it had been Carmen and not dizzy. That got it.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

I feel like if one of these two had to survive, I really wish it had been dizzy totally. But, yeah, so. So now they're on the drop ship. They're getting away, and Rico runs up to Xander and Carmen and is like, you know, hey, let's get. You know, get the fleet to bombard planet P immediately. You know, whatever. And. And he's. And over. You know, so he calls that in, but in over the comms coming back, I think the captain of their ship, Brenda Strong, she's like, negative. You know, Fleet's got. Or, you know, military intelligence has another plan for P. And Enrico gives one of the best. Actually, one of the best lines he delivers in the movie, which is, that's right. Right. Infantry does the dying. Fleet does the flying. And I do like the way he delivers it. It's very angry and upset and fittingly so. So. So kudos, Casper. That was. That was a good line delivery. But, yeah. So they're brought back up to the Roger Young, which is the. The ship that Carmen's on.

Nic

Right. And. And Diz is succumbed to her injuries, so.

Steve

So she is no more.

Nic

Diz gets killed. And the thing that she says to Johnny is, at least I got to have you. Which is just. God, Diz, you're so much better than that. I'm sure your life is so full of achievements that are better than fucking this zilch. Who, like, didn't pay any attention to.

Steve

You, you could have been playing starting quarterback For Tokyo.

Nic

Yeah, I mean, jeez. But at least it wasn't a. Another unreturned I love you.

Steve

Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's a good point. And although he did have the opportunity to see, say, a pretty consequence free. I love you. If you wanted to at that point.

Nic

Dude, let it rip, man.

Steve

She's not getting better.

Nic

Promise her some stuff. Come on. Oh, we'll get married as soon as we land.

Steve

Just what we call pillow talk, baby.

Nic

So now they end up. They basically have this kind of space funeral for Diz. The conditions you end up being your remains end up in as someone who makes it back to the ship are so much better. There's all these half people just littering planets everywhere. And then Diz gets a cool like, coffin shot out into space and this like, ceremony and it's like a Viking funeral.

Steve

Yeah, very cool.

Nic

Carl immediately walks in very cold. It looks like Carl's Neil Patrick Harris. We haven't seen him in a bit. His eyes look kind of more sunken. Like there's something about the way he looks that it's. Yeah. Like he's been affected by what he's doing.

Steve

They were trying to show us. Yeah, like, you know, he's become colder, more calculated, tired, stressed, etc stuff, you know, he makes a comment about, like, hey, you know, thanks to you guys, we now know P has a brain bug on it. And they're like, oh, that's what this was all about. Yeah, like, had to make calls. And he basically says, like, you don't like it? Too bad. This is how it works, you know, we send in people to go die. I do this all the. I do this all day long. Very cold, very heartless, and very intentionally so. And this was the thing where I will forgive you if you did not take these uniforms as satire because they are so on the note. Very close for SS uniforms. They are literally missing nothing except for the swastika itself. The red armband, that's the only thing they're missing.

Nic

But Prince Harry Halloween costume level, it's.

Steve

Still very much satire. This is. This is a. This is part of the Verhoeven's, you know, play on this. But yes, these are very on the nose. Not the hats in particular look exactly like the dude who died on the tank in Indiana Jones and Last Crusade. Like, he sure looked exactly like that. So. So I get it. But yeah, but this is. This is the. They're the head honcho shows and it's. They've discovered that they did believe that bugs had brain bugs. There were thinking bugs that are kind of controlling these swarms. And this proves it. Right. They basically felt like, you know, we know for sure now. He's got a brain on it. Because they couldn't have, you know, ambushed you basically.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Regular bugs wouldn't plan for us.

Nic

That they just send out to a planet. Probably wouldn't be doing.

Steve

Exactly. So that's. So that's the thing. So now they're going to have to go back. And this is one thing I want to briefly mention. Mention is that I do feel like this movie's too long. I feel like this movie's too long by 15 to 20 minutes.

Nic

I. I think that's fair.

Steve

And one of the things is they have four different active campaigns and they really could have done two or three. Yeah. Because there's the. There's the one where, you know, they go to. They go to Clindathu and everybody gets decimated and Rico loses his whole squad. Like that kind of had to happen. I get it. Right. But then once he joins the Roughnecks, everything that happened to that point could.

Nic

Have all been combined. Yeah.

Steve

It could have all been one. One attack. You know. Yeah. Maybe you lose this. You could have had Dizzy and how was it? Casper, Enrico, you know, screw on the boat beforehand if they had to. I don't know. There would have been ways to do it. Carmen doesn't have to think he's dead at some point. Like this is all kind of. There was so much extra stuff in.

Nic

Right.

Steve

But it is what it is for.

Nic

The trunk full of Frisbees and saxophones.

Steve

So now we're going to have our fourth deployment. Basically down to a bug planet in order to capture the. The brain. That's. That's the new mission. Right. Is not that they're not there to destroy anything necessarily. They're there to capture it.

Nic

Right. And Carmen and Xander again have the duty of getting them down there.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

The starship is heavily under attack and Carmen and Xander end up crash landing like real quick.

Steve

So their. Their. Their ship gets hit like real bad. Like it's clear that it's going down. He actually cuts their ship in half. So them and their captain Brennan Strong are. Are running around trying to get the escape pods. She gets crushed by a door in a way that was very reminiscent to me of Rose McGowan and scream getting cut in half by the garage door. It was something that I thought of initially. But yeah. So they get. Xander and Carmen get to an escape pod and they get out. But they are basically have no other choice but to fly down to the planet's surface.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And try to. To, you know, call for help from there. And they actually end up sort of busting through the ground into like this underground cavern system. Which is not ideal if you're on a planet overrun by bugs.

Nic

Not at all. And of course they end up being surrounded by the basic arachnids. Like the kind of infantry type arachnids that we see. And they're looking at each other like they both have been stabbed, I think Carmen through the shoulder and Xander through the leg.

Steve

And they're like, why aren't they killing us?

Nic

Why aren't they killing us? What's going on? And then all of a sudden they kind of back up. And then these little like, kind of what they were dissecting. All kinds of come up.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And then the Brain Bug walks up and this kind of arm, like, spider arm looking thing comes out of its.

Steve

But it's a straw.

Nic

Yeah. And it. And it jams into Xander's head and just drinks his brains out.

Steve

Sucks his brain right out. Which is like very Highlander, very like, I'm gaining your powers, I guess, or something. I'm learning what you know, like, as if our thoughts and knowledge is literally stored in our brain in an accessible way. Right.

Nic

Like, if I eat this, I will know everything you know.

Steve

That's exactly right. That's exactly, exactly what it is. But so car. But Rico's Roughnecks now because. Because Rad checks dead. Rico is the lieutenant of the Roughnecks has taken over. And they call it Rico's Roughnecks as they've welcomed a whole bunch of new, very young recruits.

Nic

Right.

Steve

In order to be part of this, they're heading down through the tunnels. They know where another group is going. And they kind of are being told where to go to find the Brain Bug. But. But Rico stops at this sort of, you know, fork in the road basically under. In these underground tunnels. And his left, like, we need to go this way. And they're like, well, A company's that way. He's like, yeah, but Carmen's this way. And they were pretty sure she's dead because they heard that the Roger Young went down Y. And so he's like, okay, the rest of Roughnecks, you guys go. But I need two volunteers. So Ace, I think it's Wilcox, I think is the name of the other character. And they go with him down to like where, you know, basically where Xander and Carmen are. And before they get there. Xander's been killed by the Brain Bug. And the bug is. The Brain Bug is coming at Carmen to suck her brains to kill, too. But before that happened, she had been handed a knife by Xander in a way that none of the arachnids notice. I don't know where their eyeballs are located. She is able to reach up and cut off this proboscis, this whatever straw thing.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

That comes out of the Brain Bug. She's able to cut it off. Now, why she is not instantly shredded by the arachnids after having attacked their leader, I don't know. I'm not sure why that worked that way. But it is about that time that Rico and Ace and Wilcox show up. And they start, you know, sort of firing at. At the bugs and sort of shooting whatever and trying to save her. And they're able to hold. He's holding up a nuke, you know, threatening. He's. He's like, you know, Princess Leia in Jabba's palace, you know, with a thermal detonator.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Holding it up like, I'm gonna blow us all. You know what?

Nic

This is gonna go boom.

Steve

You're a smart. You're a smart bug, right? This is gonna. You know. And so the Brain Bug backs off. But I can see why maybe the arachnids didn't attack then, right? The Brain Bugs telling them, right. Hey, this guy's serious, Whatever, that sort of thing. Brain Bug backs out. They're able to head down the. Down the way. And I think Wilcox takes an arachnid, you know, Spike, through the arm or through the chest. He's gone. So he says, leave me the nuke. I'll. Yeah, I'll take care.

Nic

He's in Dyson mode.

Steve

He is.

Nic

He's in Miles Dyson mode. But he's not going out like Miles Dyson because he is blasting the entire time.

Steve

Yes. He's got the gun going.

Nic

He's really. He's really letting it rip. And he saves the day. He didn't. He didn't act it quite as well as the great Joe Morton there. But. But you got to have that part. You got to have the person who sacrifices. I'm going to die anyway. Let me blow up some of these guys before I go out.

Steve

So Ace and Carmen and Rico are able to exit the tunnels, at which point they see a bunch of cheering infantry. And it's like something's big has happened. So they sort of join the crowd that's running. And it's like, oh, we caught it we caught the brain bug. Oh my gosh. Kind of thing. At which point one of my thoughts is like, why aren't they being swarmed by arachnids? They've pulled this brain bug out of the cavern. It's like ropes and they're capturing it. But like, why aren't they being attacked by all the other bugs on the planet at that point?

Nic

I mean, I wonder if the brain bug can give instruction, like knowing a probability of I will be killed if you.

Steve

Its own self preservation, I guess.

Nic

Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, it doesn't fit with the mentality of like the horde of insects that were led to.

Steve

But if this is the one bug that is sort of human and has an ego and has an understanding of and fear of death, then maybe that makes sense. I didn't quite put that together, but okay, that. That works. I would say to the music at this point in the movie, pretty much from Carmen and Xander's capture through the other action of that of these scenes and into this capture. The music in the background really was reminiscent to me of Avengers Endgame. And obviously it would be the other way around that the endgame music is reminiscent of this. But like having watched Endgame more recently than my last viewing of Starship Troopers, it was really funny how very much like the event Avengers theme, the music playing in this thing is. And it made me think about just how fascistic is the Avengers. If that's like what the line I'm drawing or the connection I'm drawing here, that's for another podcast.

Nic

So the brain bug comes out and it's just captured in the most old timey classic style net that they're dragging it out. So it's like what it took in the end was just capturing this guy. Carl walks up to the brain bug.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And puts his hand on its head.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And then looks down and says, it's afraid. So he's able to sense that it has.

Steve

Cheers.

Nic

Because they're all.

Steve

They were aware in what they were aware of. Right. Because they obviously didn't know their enemy that well. They feel no fear.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So there is no. Yeah. Like they're the perfect soldier kind of thing. But now we know, okay. In this society of bugs, there are some that are afraid and they're the ones in charge. So therefore. Or they can maybe be manipulated, I guess is sort of the thought.

Nic

Right, right, right. And I think Carl basically reunites with Rico and Carmen and you know, hey, we're old buddies together and stuff. And Carl says You know, in the end, what it took was a private named Zim who was able to capture the bug. And this is the former drill sergeant who had busted himself down to private so he could see some of the shit in the. Rather than be stuck killing and maiming recruits as a drill sergeant, the final thing that we're shown is another one of the propaganda reels. And it's service guarantees citizenship and it's highlighting some of the characters we've watched throughout the movie. You could be like the pilot, Xander and Carmen Ibanez or Captain.

Steve

Right.

Nic

They all have increased ranks.

Steve

Lieutenant Rico and although they noticed, they mentioned Private Ace, whatever his name is.

Nic

So in other words, he said he was done, he didn't want anything.

Steve

Okay, that's a good point. I was thinking to myself, like, how did he not get any promotions while. While Rico went from private to corporal to sergeant lieutenant, he gets nothing. But he forgot he did say that specifically, that he just wanted to. To fight, basically. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's fine.

Nic

And then, you know, you see that Rico has adapted rad checks like, come on, you want to live forever and stuff like that as they're running into to war. So it ends with, you know, they'll keep fighting and they'll win.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And just ends on this propaganda video. And then that's the movie. That's it.

Steve

So good. And yeah, it's a little too long. Definitely, definitely, you know, maybe 15, 20 minutes too long, but like damn good stuff. And it was so interesting to watch it today just with everything going on. And I'm not going to get into every bit of it, but like, you know, there is a reliance on militarization and othering of. Of people who are foreign of us. And there's so much going on that this movie attacks in a satirical way that is very prevalent and very sort of apropos today. And so I thought it was a really interesting watch in 2025.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. Well, this was your movie, Steve. Should I give my four first? So like I said, this is something that right off the bat, when I first saw it as a young person, it got me for a lot of reasons. And I think over time, time it gets me for different reasons. I agree with you about the length of the movie. I think you could carve 15 or 20 out of it. And then certain of the performances weren't great or whatever. But I kept coming back to Verhoeven was somehow able to make $100 million critique of the US empire or just any kind of colonial empire in A very smart way. And maybe if it was so obvious that the Stephen Hunters of the world knew what it was supposed to be, then it wouldn't have got greenlit, potentially, you know, so it's like you have to. You have to be a little subversive with this stuff. And I think this is just. It's classic Verhoeven. I really enjoy him. I like the risk that he takes. I'm kind of surprised at how this didn't do all that well. I mean, it didn't do well at the box office by the standards that we use, but it was an enjoyable movie to watch. I think the special effects are decent. They hold. Hold up pretty well.

Steve

I agree completely. Especially all of the creature effects. The bugs in particular, hold up. They look real well. Yeah.

Nic

And it's nice starting with something that's completely unfamiliar to people. So, like, we don't know how those are supposed to move and if the effects make it look good or not. Right. So totally different. They created this world. And the propaganda videos spliced throughout were very brilliant. The looks of it, you know, the Nazi ness of it was an intentional part of the satire. Tire acting, not good.

Steve

But I think some of it was okay. Again, I think, you know, some of.

Nic

The side characters, like you said, well.

Steve

And Dina Meyer, I think, is a decent actress who played Dizzy. And obviously Neil Patrick Harris is a good actor and he wasn't in a ton of it, but, you know, he's a good actor. And Michael Ironsides is a fantastic actor. There were definitely some people, but really, it suffered from Rico, Carmen and Xander in particular. And Jake Busey is, you know, not a very good actor either. But really, those three, Xander, Carmen and Rico are all pretty bad. And it definitely hurt, sort of the actual film itself. Yeah.

Nic

Yeah. All that being said, though, I can't give this anything less than a four out of five because I have so much respect. First of all, I really enjoyed just the ride of the movie.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

I like a little Massie star showing up in it. And also I just have a lot of respect for what Verhoeven was trying to do. And I think that time has kind of vindicated this film.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

So I'm giving it a four out of five. Five. Really liked it.

Steve

That's great. That's good stuff. Yeah. I mean, I kind of can't disagree with anything you said. I think that I. The. The qualms I have with the film are all very similar to the ones you have. Like I said from before, you know, I Think it is a little too long. There definitely could have been a much more like a streamlining of the plot. We didn't need as many deployments, you know, by each unit quite as, as much as we had. And so, you know, there's that part of it, the acting, yeah, definitely left something to be desired by, by the. Unfortunately the people on the screen the most. Right. Which is a bummer. However, you know, this is classic Verhoeven. I, I love about it that it was so misunderstood at its inception, at its release because I feel like it adds to the, the sort of mythology of the film and, and gives it this sort of place in like my mind and I think in a lot of moviegoers minds about how we can be wrong about how movies are received. And we have to, you know, the movie never changes. Right. Nothing about the film changes from the moment that it is released until whatever time in the future we change.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And so we have to re examine films with whatever new perspective we have. And the fact that this movie came out before 9, 11 in particular. And again, I wonder if it could have come out after. But the fact that came up before I think is one of the reasons that it was so difficult for people to notice and recognize the satire of it and the anti fascist, you know, sort of bend throughout the movie movie. Which again is sort of silly when you think about Verhoeven and that this was the fifth of a run of.

Nic

Five very strong Verven.

Steve

Right. And two of which were in the sci fi genre. He'd already done RoboCop and Total Recall. So having this setting and being able to make modern day, this is very much Rodgers and Hammerstein and the Mikado. This is making fun of, you know, or satirizing what they did was they satirized, you know, British, the British Empire in a way that would have gotten them thrown in jail if it had been about Britain. So it was about Japan. Right. And it's not. It was all about Britain, but the setting was Japan. This is all about the United States, but the setting was this future in space. Right. And so it's, it's, it's classic quality satire in that way. I am also a four out of five. I think this is a four star movie. It's not a perfect movie by any stretch, but it is so important and it's, and it's. The story behind it is so good and sort of everything about it, it's just, it's one I love. So. Yeah, so we're an 8 out of 10. The 2D on Starship Troopers masterpiece from Paul Verhoeven. And, well, this. This was my pick. So, Nic, what are we going to watch next week?

Nic

Well, I know we just watched a very biting satire of aspects of US Society, directed by a maybe underappreciated director who we both love, starring an actor who's definitely not a classically trained.

Steve

You know, are we doing this again? You're saying?

Nic

So what we're doing next is we're gonna go to the year 1988 and we're gonna go to Los Angeles and we're gonna hang out with one of my favorite Scotsman.

Steve

Okay?

Nic

The great rowdy Roddy Piper.

Steve

Love it.

Nic

And we're gonna enjoy John Carpenter's classic they Live.

Steve

You're absolutely right, though, that the parallels between, you know, the choice of the actor, the director being misunderstood, but immensely creative. I mean, even. And we'll get into this next week. The creature effects in the special effects in their movies collectively fantastic. I love they Live. I have not seen it, I think, since college. All right, over two decades since I've seen They Live. But yeah. Ready to strap on the sunglasses, man?

Nic

Hell yeah. Can't wait, man.

Steve

So this has been another episode of two Dads, one Movie. This was Starship Troopers. If you like what you're hearing, please go to Apple, go to Spotify, give us a five star review. It helps people find the podcast. And if you want to send us a note, let us know what we're doing well or not, or give us your opinion on stuff, you can email us at the showdadson movie.com that's number two. And the number one, I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And next week, we'll be back with they Live. Thank you, everybody.

Nic

Thanks.

Steve

Bye. Bye.