Transcript

Wade (The River Wild)

I shot him. Whitewater. He's dead. I'm sorry. No tears. Things must have been worse between you and Tom than I thought.

Gail (The River Wild)

I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill you, Wade.

Steve

It's two Dads one Movie. It's the podcast where two middle aged dads sit around and shoot the about the movies of the 80s and 90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we're talking about one of.

Nic

Nic's picks, the River Wild.

Steve

This was an impressive movie. So I haven't seen it before. I want to make sure everybody knows that I hadn't seen it going into this. My wife and I were talking about why I hadn't seen it because she also had never seen it. How did this movie kind of slip past us? And I think we both agreed it suffered from some kind of occupying space in our heads alongside the River Runs Through It. I don't know if they came out the same year or just very close to each other. And obviously one is a very stoic, a family drama about fly fishing in Montana or whatever. And the other is this movie, which turns out is a spectacular thriller. So very excited about it. But Nic, why don't you start off telling us a little bit about maybe like why you picked it, your history with it.

Nic

Yeah. So this is one I actually remember watching around when it came out. I think it was one that we rented as a family when I was in high school or something. And it was a good movie to watch with your parents. There was nothing really objectionable in it, but it was enjoyable enough that you were like, oh my God, I'm watching this boring parent movie. And I think it's really full of actual good action, good performances, beautiful scenery, and then some great unintentional comedy in a lot of different parts too, which I enjoy. So checks a lot of boxes for me. I found out during the research for this episode, the director of this movie, Curtis Hansen, directed one of my favorite movies. Completely unlike this 8 mile, but he made a lot of other movies that most people would also agree are great. LA Confidential, the Hand that Rocks the Cradle. So, yeah, I mean, this seems like it could have gone in the direction of being a really cheesy type movie that didn't. I don't know, it didn't grab your attention. It was kind of like, whatever, we're making the Raft movie, deal with it. But they really put a lot into it. So I think it's like, it's a kind of a hidden gem.

Steve

Yeah. And I think, you know, maybe I should have been more thoughtful about. Oh, okay. So this is a, this says it's a thriller. Obviously it's, you know, anywhere you see it listed, it's listed as a thriller as far as genre goes. And then you look at the cast, it's like, this isn't going to be a dog of a script because Meryl Streep and Kevin Bacon and David Straythern don't sign on to a movie in the mid-90s that isn't at least reasonably good. Right. They're all in the position at that point in their careers. I mean, straight there and maybe obviously not as much as streetbir Bacon, but they're all in a position at that point in their careers to really pick and choose their projects. Yeah. So unless, you know, Meryl Streep was just dying for a vacation to North Idaho, like, I'm not really sure why else, you know, she would pick this to do this. And it's clear after seeing it while she picked it because it's a fantastic. You know, I hate this term a lot of times, but it's kind of a funny term. A taught thriller. Yeah, right. There's just a lot of tension and a lot of buildup and, you know, let's, let's go over the facts for this.

Nic

Yeah, yeah, let's hear it.

Steve

I'll run down here. So to. Sorry. The River Wild, rated PG13. It was released on September 30, 1994, sort of just after the, the summer run. It's kind of a weird time of year for movies. I think. It's not the, the summer blockbuster time anymore because we're past Labor Day, school's back in session. But it's also really pre. Let's get our Academy Award nominee type movies in. You know, that, that sort of when you're around Christmas time, you get a lot of those really highbrow Academy films. This kind of landed between them. Running time of 111 minutes, as you mentioned. Directed by Curtis Hansen, written by Dennis o', Neal, starring Meryl Streep, Kevin Bacon and David Stron. Love all those people. The scores. Rotten Tomato kind of low. It is a fresh rating on Rotten Tomato, but it's 63%. So kind of just their, their threshold for fresh. And on IMDb a 6.5. So it seems like the critics at the time, the people over time, pretty much in agreement that this is a ballpark. 6 out of 10, 3 out of 5 kind of picture. From the awards side, there were no wins as far as I could find for this movie, but several pretty reasonably good nominations. Meryl Streep was nominated for Best Lead Actress at both the Golden Globes and the SAG Awards that year. And Kevin Bacon was nominated for Best Supporting Actor at the Golden Globes as well. So, you know, it's nice to be nominated, but they didn't win. Yeah, a budget of $45 million, which is fairly hefty for the time right around. Actually, we just recently watched the Fugitive together, and that movie had a very similar budget. This one did not do nearly as well as the Fugitive at the box office, but at $94 million, take, give or take, that's a little over double its earnings. That's a success. It's not a huge hit, but a success. So the people involved in this film did not all have to lose their jobs, so good for them.

Nic

Yeah, I mean, that all makes sense. I think that the nominations for Meryl Streep are well deserved. I mean, she could get nominated for anything she does, but it's kind of cool to see a female get nominated for this type of role where she's, you know, we'll talk about it. But she's essentially like the action hero of the movie.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So good for Meryl. Good for her, like, going outside of, you know, her normal zone and picking something like this that, you know, she really made into a great film. So, yeah, this one kicks off, I guess we're establishing the Meryl Streep character who is Gail. And. And Gail's just. It's another beautiful scenery and she's rowing one of those kind of speed rowing boats.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And it's just showing her. And she's trying to race, you know, she's trying to get there before the train crosses the bridge. So it establishes her competitive nature and her athleticism and skill set and everything.

Steve

And real quick, you're right. The cinematography through the whole movie is spectac spectacular and. And even just the beginning to start on the Charles river there in Boston. And. Yeah, just a beautiful scene, you know, a great. Just. Yeah. I don't know if I can remember that's called like a skull or whatever that. That kind of a little. A little boat that's like a single person, like racing boat, whatever it is. But yeah, the reveal of it is just a really nice reveal, you know, gives us Meryl, like. Yeah. Giving it her all and just trying to. Trying to compete with herself. Right. And I think that's ends up becoming, you know, a major theme right. Throughout the whole film is people kind of competing with themselves and with their own biases and their own nature.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. And she's, you know, she clearly demonstrates herself as being strong and capable and everything. But then, of course, now she's back home with the kids, boy and a girl, and. And then the husband. David Straythron is the classic. Tom is the name of the husband. Is the husband the dad who's too busy.

Steve

Right.

Nic

The dad who's. Oh, I'm stuck at where I got all these forms to fill out. I have all these papers to review. And much like in our movie, our favorite type of movie cliche appears to be some type of an architect, which is just beautiful because he can bring his blueprints anywhere he goes.

Steve

Yep. Just. Just like, I guess in some sense both two of the characters from Singles. Right. Were kind of both architects, one working as the other gonna study as. But, yeah, classic kind of. You only see it in movies profession, the architect.

Nic

And it's. It's effective to be able to look busy.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

As an architect, you can rumple a lot of stuff and throw a lot of stu.

Steve

So.

Nic

So good on them for sticking to the architect here.

Steve

Yeah, it was a little brutal. Like, as a dad, watching this for the first time and, you know, you get that sense at the beginning that, you know, life at home is not perfect. It's not duckies and bunnies and. The son. I don't remember his name now, but.

Nic

Okay, we can talk about the son's name for a minute. Okay. O'.

Steve

Rourke. That's right.

Nic

This movie, it's not, to my knowledge, not based on a true story, not something that requires them to use the real life names of people. If you're writing a script with a name that needs to be said, a lot of times Roark just stumbles out of your mouth. It is such a weird. You have to contort yourself to say it every time. And during the whole beginning of this movie, I'm like, I'm going to have to say Roark so much during this podcast.

Steve

No, from here on out, we're just calling him the son.

Nic

There we go.

Steve

He's the son. So the son says, because Gale, Meryl Streep's character is like, oh, are you so excited for the trip? Is dad coming? Oh, yeah, Dad's coming. It's going to be great. And the son just goes, dad always cancels. And that hurt. Man, that. That hit. That hit hard for sure. Look, he. I Don't know. You know, at this point, this is literally like the opening credits. I don't know if straight there, it's like a deadbeat, or he's just busy and has jobs or what. But, like, sometimes, yeah, you don't get to do all the things you want to do with your kids. You know, it can be rough. Yeah.

Nic

And it sounds like they're excited about this, and they kind of allude to the fact that maybe they'd plan this a couple times, and they. They're finally doing it this time. Dad's finally going this time. But then.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Of course, he's too busy at work. Yes. Can I talk to you, honey? I got to tell you about. You know, the brass is breathing down my neck. So they go without him.

Steve

Yeah, they do. And they go. So they're going to North Idaho. They're going to. I looked this part up. It was filmed in several different locations across sort of the northernmost parts of the United States, I think, possibly even into Canada for a couple scenes. But it is set in the world in the universe of the film. It's set on the Snake river in North Idaho. So that's where they are, very close to the Canadian border in North Idaho. And so that's where they go. And it turns out Gail's parents live there, I guess. Right? Yeah. So that kind of came out of nowhere. I didn't realize they were going to visit Grandma and Grandpa.

Nic

It. It seems like maybe they had to cut 15 minutes out of the movie, and they were just like, let's get rid of the grandparents subplot, because her parents live there. So I guess it's important to know that we have relatives nearby and that she has a great familiarity with that river, which is known to be dangerous and treacherous and everything. But then her F. Is deaf, Right. So it shows her mother and father, you know, using sign language with each other, which is a little foreshadowed. Doesn't come into play.

Steve

Well, no. I think there's a couple points later where it definitely does come into play. I do think it's important to establish that this is a family where they would have learned ASL for good reason. You know, so that the mother and the son have an ability to communicate to each other without talking. I think that trying to rely on a. Mothers and sons just know each other, they'll figure it out. That would have been way worse, like giving them actual sign language to deal with. And then even, you know, we get to the point, there's even graffiti later on that Is in sign language is super important. So that part matters for sure.

Nic

This is my main takeaway from this, is the seeing an older couple where one of them has already just been deaf the whole time.

Steve

Right.

Nic

It saves you so much frustration of your partner just going deaf over time as you get older. True. So, man, they must be living the life there. They're not going to be. Like I said this.

Steve

Well, except that we learn a little. So Gail gets there. Right. And Tom is not. He's not coming as far as they were at this point. So they get there. They get the grandma, grandpa, and she's talking to her mom about the troubles that she's having in her marriage with Tom and talking about maybe it's time to get out. Like, I think that might be time to leave him. I don't. This isn't working for me. And her mom says something about, oh, that's not an option. When I was young, like, you know, you really think I would have stayed with your dad? He's deaf. I mean, was basically what she said. She basically admitted that, like, she would have divorced him over the irritation of having to communicate with a deaf person, which I think is like, okay, so Gail's mom is a horrific human being. Good to know. Like, where did she get her, like, good natured morals from? Because God is not her mother.

Nic

So they're about to. They're. They're getting ready now. They're getting their raft loaded up. And there's some other people who are also loading in there at the spot there. One of them is the Kevin Bacon character, Wade.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And. And Wade is kind of being real cool with the sun.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And, you know, hey, what's up, the sun? Oh, what's your name? My name's the sun. Cool hat. The son is wearing a ministry hat. Very cool. And Wade is wearing a lollapalooza hat, which might have been for the first year of life.

Steve

Probably was. Yeah, that's right.

Nic

I don't think it indicated a year on it. So there's probably nobody in 1993 saying, I think we can rely on Perry pharrell for another 20 years of this. So good call. Not to number it, but yeah. So he was established now as the guys. Oh, hey, you know, don't tell your dad. Here's a sip of beer type cool uncle character. Oh, you want to see my knife and all that kind of st. So. So Wade is there, and they're loading up the.

Steve

The raft. The raft.

Nic

And then who shows up? The hero.

Steve

Dad shows up.

Nic

Dad's here. Couldn't even take his tie off or untuck his shirt or take or change.

Steve

Out of his super pleated pants. The most pleated, the most pleats I've ever seen. It looked like. Looked like culottes. Like, what was he wearing? It was ridiculous. More pleats than an entire racket. JCPenney at that time.

Nic

Yeah, he. He was really flashing those pleats around. But I think every pleat, it's like a wrinkle in a chef's hat. And like every time you have a severe character flaw as a dad character, you get a new pleat in your pants. So he was full of them.

Steve

Tightens up a little, gathers that material together. Yeah. And he had to, of course, bring his work with him. Right. He couldn't just come. He's got his little leather briefcase full of sketchbooks, I guess. I'm not sure. He's an architect, so I guess he's going to be drawing, right? But yeah, he had to bring it with him. Couldn't possibly. It's supposed to be like a two day trip, maybe three. Right.

Nic

You can't leave it behind.

Steve

Can't leave it behind. God damn it.

Nic

So he's Tom. Just everything Tom does is just showing you how lame Tom is and what a dud he is. I kept writing down, Tom is a dud. They end up getting on the boat and everything. And he's sitting there and immediately he falls off because he's doing the. Oh, I don't want to sit up there. She's like, okay, suit yourself. And he flips off the boat.

Steve

But even before that, when he first shows up, so Galen, and I'm going to use his name, but Roark. So Galen and Roark are getting ready to get in their boat while Wade and his buddy Terry and their guide is with them. And they're all getting their boat ready. And Wade is kind of flirting with Gail. You know, she was like, you know, I guess seductively bent over trying to inflate her raft. And he was just way into it. I don't know. Mom jeans have never done it for me, but that's okay. So he goes over and he's kind of flirting with her. But then Tom shows up. But the way Gail introduces Wade and Tom is she says to Wade, oh, this is Tom Rourke's father. And I'm like, okay, so she's already divorced in her head, like, this is. She's done, right? This isn't. This is Tom, my husband. This is Tom Rourke's father. Wow, that's Brutal.

Nic

Yeah. Not getting a lot of respect, but not earning a lot of respect. Early in the film, I did think.

Steve

This was like Kramer versus Kramer on a river. Like there was definitely going to be like a custody battle somewhere. Yeah.

Nic

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And Tom, he's a goof, and he doesn't. Clearly doesn't have the skills that everyone else has. He falls off the back of the boat.

Steve

Right.

Nic

I was camping one time with my daughter and some friends and his kids, and it was just one of those trips where the kids were sick and nobody was sleeping and we were miserable and it was super hot. So we all go out on this raft, and there was six of us on a raft that probably fit three people. And I was sitting on the back of the raft. Everyone hated each other. Everyone was just like, let's just go home. And. And I shuffled the wrong way and I flipped off the back and I lost my sunglasses to, like, two feet of muck under the lake. And I was so mad and everything. So then we're drifting back to shore in silence, and my friend's little son, who's like 6 years old, he just looks at me and says, hey, you remember that time you fell off the raft and you lost your sunglasses? So when this happened to Tom in the movie, I just. I was just like, oh, I get it. That's the most humiliating thing that can happen. But his sunglasses were fine. And, you know, pre cell phone, falling into a water in your clothes was kind of just a fun gag.

Steve

Especially it looked like it was clearly summer, it was clearly warm. You know, I'm sure the water is freezing cold. I think they mentioned a couple things. Very, very cold water. But it was probably somewhat refreshing. You know, pop back up, get back in that raft. You can do it.

Nic

And, you know. And then they're at a stop, and Gale and Roark are fishing at sunset. It's the most beautiful, picturesque scene. And there's Tom the dud, just working on his architecture sketches. So he's just worthless. He is dead weight at this point.

Steve

Even the dog doesn't want to hang out with Tom at this point.

Nic

Yeah, the dog knows that he's. That he stinks right now. Let's see, Wade and Terry, they. They lose their guide as it's the next thing we discover. That's right, Their guide is hurt. They're kind of. He's just not with them anymore.

Steve

They say he, you know, he needed to leave because he had gotten injured somehow. So he walked up the trail. He's basically walking out of the cavern that the river goes through. And now they're without a guide. And these two guys don't really know the river well. But we have established that Gail, you know, had been a white. Whitewater rafting guide, you know, sort of as a career for a while, including knowing this river in particular very well. Even talked about that, you know, she had run the Gauntlet before. And we're told the Gauntlet is a Class 5, plus Whitewater Rapids that goes beyond the rebase. Is not allowed to go down there anymore.

Nic

There's a.

Steve

There's a beach you need to pull off and go to or the, you know, park rangers will come get you, basically. So, you know, Wade and Terry are like, oh, my gosh, look, there's Gayle and her family. They can help us because we need a guide. And so they flag them down and they wave them down and they pull over onto their beach where they're at, and chat a bit.

Nic

And she agrees that she'll help him get down the river, as anyone would. I don't think at this point there's anything weird to be suspicious of. I think Tom has a weird feeling, but his feelings shouldn't be respected or trusted at this point because he hasn't established himself as anything.

Steve

Yeah, at this point, if anything, Tom has established himself as potentially being jealous of Wade, the attention that he's getting from Gale. So, you know, we as an audience are not really given the. We're not given any reason to take Tom's suspicions seriously at this point. Now, we also have been getting a fair amount of clues that maybe the characters aren't. That these guys are not on the up and up. So there is that element to it, but it's not really. It doesn't mean anything yet. Right. That there's a little suspicion going on. And, in fact, I want to kind of pause here for a second because it goes a little later into this. But I want to mention, like, at this point in the movie, as I said at the beginning, I really didn't know what to expect. I'd never seen it before, and I had. It had always flown under the radar for me. And up to this point and even a little further, I kept thinking to myself, this is like. It's kind of boring. It's gorgeous. The cinematography is beautiful, whatever. But, like, yeah, I don't really care about these two characters that much. The husband and wife, they're okay. I love Meryl Streep and David Strathearn. So I'm gonna watch and I want to. I want to see what happens. But I'm like, when does it get good? Like, I definitely felt like for, like, about the first half hour of this movie was very much like, okay, can we do something here? And even when we were getting clues as an audience that Kevin Bacon is not on the up and up, that Wade is a bad guy, you know, the characters, generally, other characters in the movie are basically acting as if there's nothing wrong. Yeah. So it can get a little frustrating. And I definitely sort of feeling it in this area where it's like, I didn't care about Tom, but I also recognized. No, he's right. You probably should be more suspicious of this Wade guy, like, and his buddy.

Nic

Yeah. It's where you can. You understand why the other characters are reacting to him that way.

Steve

But.

Nic

But you're sitting there screaming, no, no, no, listen. Right, exactly. So Wade and Terry, their raft ends up flipping, like, pretty early in the trip. Right. And Wade falls into the water.

Steve

Oh, that's right.

Nic

And Terry is screaming, wade can't swim.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

So he's in there, and Tom decides to jump in after him to try to save him. And it seems like what's happening, even though I know when people are drowning, they can sometimes struggle and kind of pull at you.

Steve

But.

Nic

But it seems like what's happening is that Wade is really trying to pull Tom down with him.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Tom feels the only way to get Wade safely to shore is to incapacitate him by punching him in the face.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Love an underwater punch.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

RIP Val Kilmer, a top secret. One of the best underwater fight scenes of all time. So he punches him in the face. It's. It's good tension. It's really. Yeah, it's really starting up. So, you know, he gets him to safety. And Wayne. Wade seems grateful when the group's around, but he does tell. I was like, you didn't have to hit me. And in a pretty threatening way.

Steve

Yes. And straight through. To his credit, Tom is very much. This is a point where I start liking Tom. Right. So the rescue of Wade is a good sort of like, okay, Tom's a pretty decent guy. And the way he responds to a very aggressive and threatening Wade by saying, yeah, I did.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

It's like, it was okay. Okay. Tom's got some spine. This is good. Tom's got the coolness.

Nic

It's definitely not characteristic of him so far.

Steve

No, exactly. So it was. It was good to see that, because I feel like at this point, I knew this family's not gonna survive this without Tom being involved. Like, you know, I mean, this is going to be a whole team effort here if they're going to get out of this. I also, in this scene, thought, and I wrote it down, I bet Wade knows how to swim. Like, I thought maybe they were going to set us up for a redirect or whatever where it's like, oh, it turns out, you know, he's fine. But actually, as there are other points in the movie later on where it's quite clear that, no, Wade does not know how to swim. He literally did take this trip. And we'll get into why later as we go through the movie, but he chose this trip knowing he can't swim.

Nic

Yeah. Not the brightest.

Steve

No.

Nic

I mean, he's very crafty and very.

Steve

Like, cunning, you know?

Nic

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Good at being a sociopath, but not really the smartest guy.

Steve

Yeah, exactly.

Nic

We end up kind of around the fire, like, I guess the day after the rescue. Now, so they're sitting around the campfire and it's Roark's birthday.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And instead of getting him a new name like they should have, they have a cake for him and it's great. And the dad gets him a gift where it's like, hey, you know, this is a very special gift. Which it is. It's a great gift. The most deluxe Swiss army knife. I mean, one of those thick boys with the magnifying glass and the tweezers and toothpicks and the everything. I like 250 bucks now.

Steve

Yeah, I was gonna say. See, this was the thing. So I. I have not bought a Swiss army knife in ages, but I have a couple Leatherman. You know, the multi tools and those are not cheap. I think one of them I have is like 101. Was like 150 or something like that. But I was still kind of blown away when they said this was army knife cost $80. I was like, really? In 1994, $80 for. Okay, yes, that seems really expensive for a knife.

Nic

But it's. It's Swiss Army. It's the official knife of neutrality.

Steve

That's right. And of opening bottles of wine on the battlefield.

Nic

So then. So then Wade decides to give Rourke a birthday gift. And a very suspicious birthday gift where he just gives him $200 in cash.

Steve

Like, here's a couple Benjamin's kid I just happen to have with me on my river trip.

Nic

And understandably, the parents are upset, like, well, you can't give him.

Steve

No, no, no, we can't accept a.

Nic

Better gift than me.

Steve

That's not what he was saying.

Nic

No, I know, but. But you know, clearly, like, hey, that's not really cool. That's probably what you would have paid Meryl Streep to guide you through the.

Steve

Whatever, probably at that point.

Nic

And he should have said, well, you take it for your trouble, sir. But he didn't do. Because he wants to be combative. Like, I think Wade's intention, I think he was like, I can stir up by doing this.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

You're kind of seeing more that he is a little bit like, he's a really good manipulator.

Steve

And I think. I think even one more layer deep than that. I think what he was really trying to do is if he gets on the kids good side, he's going to have more opportunities to have direct control over the kid. If he has direct control over the kid, the parents will do whatever he needs them to. Right. And so that I think was even. He even kind of says something similar to that later on where, I've got your kid. You know, you're going to do what I want because I've got your kid. And that's reality, man, is having someone with kids like, yeah, you want to make me do whatever you want, threaten my child.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Until I can figure out how to kill you for it, I'm gonna do what you ask.

Nic

Right.

Steve

So I'm not gonna risk it, you know. So I think that was really. He was really just trying to butter up Rourke, which wasn't hard because Roark hates his dad, like, so bad.

Nic

Exactly.

Steve

And. And, you know, already cool Lollapalooza hat. And, you know, now he's been given money and, like, all this stuff. So Wade seems like just the coolest dude to Rourke. But.

Nic

Yeah, so, yeah, he's like the cool big brother, big cousin type character, and he'll listen to anything he says.

Steve

One of my older cousins introduced me to Too short when I was 10 years old. It's that kind of thing.

Nic

See, there you go. Exactly. Exactly. There's a scene where Gale, it's raining, and she's like, oh, I gotta go down to the river and take a bath.

Steve

Well, it seemed like was she and Tom, they were like kissing at that point. They were getting back together. It felt like they were reconnecting and like, Tom was going to get in the water with her, but left. I could all I kept. I was so distracted.

Nic

It was about to be on.

Steve

I was so distracted in the scene because all I kept thinking is, you idiots don't get in a body of water during a thunderstorm. What is wrong with you? I was just imagining everybody just getting electrocuted the second that, you know, it's just. Yeah, don't do that. So I didn't really understand what was going on. But she does end up in the river, either totally nude or at least topless. Exactly. But who is hovering nearby, watching her closely?

Nic

Yeah. And Wade is up there at the top of the hill, not looking in the way of, oh, there's a person down there. Let me check it out. But just in that. What you would imagine Wilson from Home Improvement's whole face to look like if he wasn't behind the fence. Just this dead stare. Oh, it was very, very creepy. And I think Gail seeing that, it made her realize, okay, like, this is not between the 200 bucks, right? And this. Like, I don't. I don't like this.

Steve

There's enough red flags going on. There's enough going on that isn't good. That doesn't feel right. I think there's. You know, she's starting to trust her gut. Obviously, if she's starting to reconnect emotionally with Tom, the fact that he doesn't, you know, like them, whatever is going to factor in. And I think. Really? Yeah. Anybody that looks at you the way Michael Keaton looks at everyone during Pacific Heights, like, you need to not. You need to not be around that person.

Nic

Definitely giving her the. The Pacific Heights star. Yeah. So they kind of agree in their tent. They're like, all right, I think it's time to get away. Tomorrow morning, let's separate. That's a good plan. And it's good timing for it. Things haven't gotten too heated yet, but Roark is going with his new best friends, Wade and Terry.

Steve

Not good.

Nic

So he's in there, and now he's the passenger on their raft. So they can't make their getaway. So they have to kind of stay close while not while keeping cool.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And there's a lot of good tension of just, like, you know, stop looking at them. They're right behind us. You know, they can kind of see what we're saying. Very, very cool. While Roark is on the boat with Wade and Terry.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Wade shows Roark, hey, you want to see something cool?

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he shows him the gun that he has. It says, don't tell anyone. So that's.

Steve

Don't tell your parents.

Nic

There we go.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Now. Now it's on.

Steve

Yeah. That got my. That got the hair on my neck up for sure. And I And it was so funny. I wrote down. I kept writing a bunch of notes about how cool I think Roark is because the Ministry had. He likes Jane. Jane's addiction. I get the, like, rebellion against your dad at that age. Like, it all makes sense. But then we get to this part and I'm like, okay, Tim from Jurassic park is not cool anymore. We have a really serious thing we do with our kids about teaching them. We started them at my minor, 11 and 6 now. And from a young, young age, we taught them both the difference between secrets and surprises. Right? So we don't keep secrets. We don't keep secrets from each other. We don't. We will do surprises where don't tell mom what we got her for her birthday, Right? Because we're going to reveal it. So the difference is, if someone is asking you to not tell someone ever, that's a secret. If it's. Don't tell them till it's this time because this is a surprise, that's fine, you know. And so this was a big thing, watching it. I was just kind of like, oh, fuck, Tim from Jurassic Park. Don't do it.

Nic

I know. It's like if he was sitting in one of the jeeps with a velociraptor at this point, like, he's. He's in trouble.

Steve

The little water bottle or the little cup of water on the dash is starting to rumble. Buddy, you're in danger again, Tim.

Nic

So they pull off. They're on this route here and they're still trying to figure out how are we gonna separate? And they pull off for lunch to wash up, to go to the bathroom, whatever. They said two things about this scene that I really enjoyed. There's like a waterfall that is on the side of the river that they're there washing in and Terry's there having a waterfall shower. Beer. I can't imagine a better beer than that. That sounds. Aw, the best. But a beef that I have with the script is if Terry's a real character, there are no beers left after three days. Yeah, there's absolutely no beer left.

Steve

No.

Nic

Especially learning what we know that they did. That beer would have been.

Steve

You're.

Nic

You're forgetting, dude. You're getting rid of that stuff. They decide they're going to make a run for it, right?

Steve

It's actually a really great plan. Right. They send Rourke and the dog up around the bend, go fishing up there. So that way they're now around the corner, but also they're downstream so they can sort of just raft on by. And it starts working pretty great. Like, Terry gets under the water, Gale has to go back to the boat for something, and Tom sort of hangs out long enough for Terry to become totally distracted and books it. And I thought it seemed like this was going to go great.

Nic

Oh, yeah. But what happens, you know, they obviously know something's up. Wayne and Terry know something's up when.

Steve

They come around the bend and they're. And they're trying to quietly, but doing that. That sort of whisper yell you do to your kids where you're like. Like, come here. You know, like, whatever. They're kind of doing that to Rourke to get him to come, you know, towards the boat. That's when Wade kind of comes from the corner. And the way Kevin Bacon delivers this line, I. I had to write down because it was so good. He just goes, what are you guys doing? And it's just like, oh, they're in deep now. Man, this is not good.

Nic

Like, he is, like. Even though they don't know that he has the gun yet, I mean, he is just fully in control at this point. Yeah. The way that he plays, the creepiness. Oh, it's so. It's really good. Really good. Yeah. So we end up. They end up pushing each other. You know, who's gonna stop me? Right? One of those things, and they start pushing each other, and then they're slapping each other. I think. I think Tom gets slapped twice by Wade.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

When the. What are you gonna do? Kind of.

Steve

Yeah, yeah. It's very much the Wyatt Earp throwdown boy kind of thing.

Nic

Yeah. And then Tom finally snaps. He punches Wade, it looks like, oh, he landed a good one.

Steve

He did.

Nic

And he turned around with the confidence of a guy who, you know, something was going to happen, like, aha.

Steve

Now, that doesn't.

Nic

Anyway, back to my family. And then Wade just. Wade punches Tom's glasses off, and he's really. Yeah, he's overpowering Tom. Tom's not a match for Wade.

Steve

Well, and that's, I think, when he pulls the gun then. Right. I mean, even. Even when it's like, maybe there's a fight Tom can win. Here he goes to pull the gun, as Roark, I believe, is yelling, dad, he has a gun. Right? And so, you know, Rourke's starting to come around. Now that he sees Wade for who he is. He's starting to come around that, like, well, I might be mad at my dad a lot because I'm 11 or whatever, but, you know, this is my dad. Like, don't screw with my dad. This sucks, you know?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Now, this was a part where I wrote a note down and I'm dead serious about this. If the. So Wade basically threatens the dog at this point.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

And he basically tells Tom, I need your wife and to control her, I need your kid, but you and the dog are expendable. And he basically, basically says, I gotta decide right now which one of you I'm kill right now. And he aims the pistol at the dog. And I swore I wrote this down. If the dog gets shot, I am turning this shit off. It would have been the end. Like, I would continue to have this episode with you, but I would have been. I would not have watched any more of the movie. We would have had to talk about everything to that point. Luckily, she gets away, and I just wrote down. I'm hoping she comes back to save the day. Yeah.

Nic

I know. A lot of tension when the pets at risk like that. And I think my wife said the same thing the first time we watched. This is just, they better not shoot the dog.

Steve

I have a hard line. If a dog's gonna die in a movie, it's got to be like, you know, the old dog is either, like, put down because it's humane or, like, you know, dies of natural causes. Like, I can live with that. Like, that's a plot point I can live with. Somebody murdering a dog is like, I'm out on that movie.

Nic

Yeah. Especially such a good natured golden retriever that they have in this. I mean, that's. That's just a great dog. The dog gets away, runs off. Yep.

Steve

And then they tie everybody up.

Nic

Oh, that's right.

Steve

Okay. Yeah. So they're still together, and Tom and Gail are still sort of discussing, like, what can they do right, to get away. And this is when the Swiss army knife comes into play.

Nic

Yes. And Roark also has a disposable camera, waterproof camera, and his hat that he throws into the revolution of Wade. Yep.

Steve

And then before Wade can stop him, because Wade notices him, he's like, oh, you're taking pictures of me. Get that camera. Like, he just tosses into the river. Super smart. It'll go somewhere. Right now, of course we do. See, I think almost right away, the shows, it gets caught on, like, you know, some brambles or something. It doesn't go very far and get stuck. So maybe it never comes back. But it was good thinking. It was certainly good thinking for a young kid to think like, oh, this would be better if this guy doesn't get it.

Nic

Yes. So they're tied up in the boat. And this is kind of interesting because now they're talking about where they really want to go. Because I think at first they were saying, we want you to guide us to some point down the river, and now they're saying, if you can go through the Gauntlet. We're going through the fucking Gauntlet because that's our way out.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

And you're going to take us through there.

Steve

Yeah. Like, nobody's going to think we could go that far, so they're not going to follow us down there. It's like a good way of disappearing is by going through an area that supposedly is. You know, it sounds like close to a death sentence for most people who raft it. Is what? Certainly how they make it sound.

Nic

Absolutely. I mean, especially if you have so many people on, you don't have optimum weight distribution or any of that. You'd probably need. Everyone is an expert in rafting for.

Steve

It to work strong. Yeah. Yeah.

Nic

And Gale's character, Meryl Streep, I thought, was such a great description of the Gauntlet because she was kind of gradually turning into the Joker as she was describing its dangers to them. Cackling like. Like, we're all gonna fucking die in just kind of a delirious way.

Steve

It's like, nighttime, and all of the. Tom and Gale and the kid are all, like, tied up by their wrists in the tent. And Wade is gonna do watch, and then Terry's gonna sleep or no, vice versa. Wade goes to sleep first, Terry, but Terry falls asleep. And Tom recognizes that Terry's fallen asleep. And the pistol is not far from him, but he's not holding it. It's not right with him. It's next to him. And so this is when they get the Swiss army knife. I don't remember even who had it at this time, if it was Roark or whoever. But somebody's got it. And they're able to manipulate it enough between the two of them to cut David straight there and to cut Tom's wrist bindings free. So now he has to go and kind of sneak out and try to get this gun. Unfortunately, we see Terry shift a little in his sleep and his hand actually reaches the gun. So now it's gonna be a little bit harder. Course, the classic he. Tom steps on like a. A twig that snaps or something, right? It makes noise, wakes Terry up and straight starts fighting. And Tom starts fighting to get the gun. Wade wakes up, there's this, you know, struggle that's happening. And Tom gets into the river. He basically Realizes he's not going to get the gun, he dives into the river and he goes across. Now, Wade can't swim. And this actually, this is one of the places where really he clearly can't. He has to stay right near the, the shore. And he's got a flashlight and the pistol that's a.357 Magnum. This is not a distance weapon. This is not a long range weapon. It is not very accurate at any kind of distance. So luckily for Tom, Wade shoots at him a few times, even with the flashlight on him and you know, maybe able to get him and he doesn't. And then it's like, I think what happens is at one point Wade shoots, it hits the rocks near Tom and Tom slips and falls. And Wade is convinced that he shot him and that he fell into the river and he's dead. What happens then? So now Wade goes back and Meryl Streep delivers my favorite line of hers in the entire movie here, where Wade's now back. He's got the gun. He tells everybody, yeah, I just, you know, Tom's dead. I killed him. It's just you guys now. And Meryl Streep looks at him and she says, I want to kill you. I'm going to kill you, Wade. And the way she says, I want to kill you, then I'm going to kill you, Wade.

Nic

It's just like, like she's just convinced herself of it.

Steve

Exactly. It's in that moment where she's like realizes, no, no, it's not that this is what I want to do. It's that I'm going to take control of the situation. That man is to going, going to die. And it's just so boss like, yeah, she really is. It's such a great delivery.

Nic

And so Meryl Streep, when, when Wade was pursuing Tom with the gun and Tom had climbed the face of the rocks across after he'd already. I mean, the amount of damage that this man has taken already and he's able to do Olympic level kind of free rock climbing. Crazy is incredible. Wade's quote, which is very chilling. Where are you? How does it feel to know you only have a few more seconds to live? It's just. Oh, so he's generating some points for himself as a good, a highly ranked bad guy in this. He does a great job. Was it right before this when the Benjamin Bratt character, the ranger, pulled up to them when Tom was still there?

Steve

We did skip over that. Yeah, when Tom was still there. So the night before be basically, I Think shortly after the gun discovery, right? So they're now, they've been fighting, the dog has run off. But before they actually tie them up and it's like nighttime. Yeah. Benjamin Bratt shows up. He is a park ranger on the river who knows Gail. So they're chatting a bit. They grew up together in the area. I love Benjamin Bratt because his name is in no way Latino. And he ends up playing all kinds of races that aren't Latino. Here. He's a Native American. He's such a great actor. I love Benjamin Brat. And yeah, he basically is talking to them about, you know, hey, what are your plans? Who are these people? Whatever. And Tom is trying to write in the dirt, I think sos. Right. And he's doing his best. And I'm thinking to myself, this is dangerous as hell because they'll shoot you. Like, you know, they're kill you. Right. So Terry figures it out that he's doing this and is able to sort of step in front of him and kind of kick it with his feet before Benjamin Bratt's character notices. So really they end up with, you know, like, okay, well, hey, take care. Okay, bye. Bye. Like, whatever. Right. Nothing kind of comes of it. He goes on down the river and then that's when we get to where they've tied up the family together.

Nic

Right. Wade did get some bad guy points. I think he said something racist about Benjamin Brad, like something. Yeah. He just had to get his dig in there. The job that the Benjamin Brat character has seems like a fucking dream.

Steve

Oh, my God.

Nic

Canoeing down a river all day just looking for.

Steve

I guess you just have a truck at the bottom of the river and you just drive back up to the top and somebody else brings another truck down. I don't even know, but it sounds great.

Nic

He. All he has to do is discover trouble. He doesn't have to pull people out. He just has to say, okay, time to call the helicopter. So it just seems beautiful there. Yeah. But so he's kind of inserted into the movie as something to watch out for because this is not an unpatrolled area. There's somebody looking over it.

Steve

Correct. Right. This is. Yeah. They're not like in the wilderness. Right. This is essentially they're in like a national park kind of situation. I don't know if that's literally what it is, but it is not. They're not completely off the grid. There is some other people around. There are rescue operations available to them, that kind of thing. So. Yeah.

Nic

So, okay. So sorry to dip Back into there. I just wanted to let everybody know that he's in pursuit. So now, after Tom has escaped and been shot at and, you know, really been beaten up, left for dead, claimed to be dead by Wade, there's a great sequence where Tom and I remember when I first watched this as a kid, just my parents and I and my brother just laughing so hard at this, at him just becoming super dad all of a sudden, where he's barehand rock climbing up here and he's been shot and he looks like he's broken both of his arms multiple times. Seriously. He finds Maggie, he finds the dog. And there's a great scene where he's just sprinting along the ridge and there's this beautiful mountain landscape behind him in the sunset. It's just the silhouette of him and the dog running across. Like the guy in Punch out, you know, doing his training jog with the trainer, riding the bike behind him.

Steve

I literally wrote down at this point in the movie, yay, it's the Tom and Maggie show. Like, I just was really rooting for these two to come save the day.

Nic

Oh, so good.

Steve

But real quick, there was in between Wade thinking he shot Tom and them actually leaving their campsite that they were at for the night where all the scuffle happened. Tom gets up out of the water and is climbing back up to the top of the ridge or trying to get there, at which point they start leaving down the river and he has to sort of position himself to not be seen.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

And I thought this was one of the most wonderful. There's a couple really great, great tense scenes throughout the movie. But this was one of them in that his feet, you know, were sort of moving along. He's just wearing trainers or whatever.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Like, and his feet are moving along the ridge. He's up against this rock client or this cliff face. And I'm just like, man, he's gonna knock rocks down. They're gonna splash in the water. It's gonna alert everybody to his presence, like, whatever. And that almost happens. There's. There is one point where rocks fall, but, like, the raft has gone far enough that he's out of sight. And it's like, okay, you can breathe now. But it really was one of those great, you know, the literal edge of your seat, sort of holding your breath sequences when Tom is kind of trying not to be seen because daylight now, right when he was first escaping from Wade and the gun, it was nighttime. Wade had to use a flashlight. It made it less obvious, you know, that he wasn't actually shot, but if they see him now, he's screwed. Right. It's daylight.

Nic

Right. And the way that shot was kind of from Tom's point of view was very cool because you're kind of like, come on, go get. Like, get out of view. Get out of view.

Steve

Again, the cinematography, the choices by the director of photography, like, really fantastic stuff in this movie.

Nic

Gail's trying to figure out what can she do. And I. And I think the next thing that she does is intentionally with the oars, knocks both Terry and Wade off the raft.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And that seems like she saved the day. She was able to do that.

Steve

Right.

Nic

But, you know, the gun trumps everything. I mean, and does. Yeah. And Wade pops up with the gun, so she has to.

Steve

To.

Nic

She has to pull them out. I mean, a valiant effort and she's really grasping at everything. Like, this is a good character, you see, she's doing everything she possibly can to try to save her. What's left of her family in her mind.

Steve

Absolutely. Yeah. Because. Right. As far as she's aware, her husband is dead. You know, she might have been willing to divorce him two days earlier, but clearly they were reconnecting and any kind of this would have, you know, would be trauma bonding them together regardless. Like, that's gonna be something that'll hold them together. But now she believes he's gone. So it's just her and Roark and hopefully she gets back to her daughter.

Nic

Right.

Steve

I think we mentioned it all in this podcast, but yes, there's a daughter.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

For some reason, there's another child with the grandparents.

Nic

It seemed unnecessary.

Steve

Yeah. Roark is not an only child, so.

Nic

I think after she pulls Wade and Terry out of the water, there is another scene of Tom and Maggie running across the ridge. This is an important part where it's showing how much work they're doing.

Steve

They're just. I think if nothing else, we're just let. We know that they are following along. Right. They are staying in the picture. Again, it's the Tom and Maggie Show. I want to see them win. I want to see them save the day. And if they are not clearly ahead of them. Right. They're not going to move as quickly as a raft going down a river unless you're staying ahead of them. So it really was kind of important to do that. They're getting to that beach that you're supposed to leave. You're supposed to get off the river at this point.

Nic

Exactly.

Steve

And they actually pass it or. No. Do they? No, no, that's right. They get off there because they want to go check out the Gauntlet. Like, they just scout it out. So, Galen, Wade, go up to this ridge that overlooks the Gauntlet or the opening to it, I guess, because it is a very long stretch of river, and it really is very whitewater. I mean, it looks very violent. Rapids. Yeah.

Nic

And it's not short. It's not like a little whoop. Once you're over the waterfall, you're fine. It's like you're going down the waterfall for a mile.

Steve

It looked like a mile or plot a mile or more of whitewater rapids. So very, very dangerous. And we run into an old friend while they're standing on that ridge. Our ranger buddy comes back.

Nic

He comes back because he's. You're not thinking, you know, what are you doing here? You said you were getting out before.

Steve

This and you thought. Yeah, because Gail said. Said, oh, I'd love to do it again. I can't let you do that, Gail. I can't let you. I got to call the helicopter. And my note was like, benjamin Brat is not too quick on the pickup because this seems like a bad situation. Gail doesn't seem normal. This guy Wade seems weird. Like, I don't know why he's not being a little more.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Suspicious, I guess. Like, he's not being very suspicious at all. So, of course, Wade shoots him.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Bye, bye, Bye, Benjamin.

Nic

Brad not. Didn't give him much of a chance to fight back or anything.

Steve

I mean, like. Like the gun version of a sucker punch.

Nic

Yeah, I guess that kind of. I mean, he's some kind of law enforcement, but he's much more of a park ranger than someone who's dealing with real criminals. Like, his function is probably more rescue and stuff, but I feel like park.

Steve

Rangers, like, that kind of thing. They're much closer to, like, EMTs or even firefighters than cops. Like, you know, in there in the way they serve or deal with people.

Nic

Right, right, right. And it's too bad, because that was a little bit of a waste of Benjamin Brat. I mean, maybe a beef in this movie, but. But the movie doesn't have a lot of fat, so I'm not worried about him not being in it more. Tom, in the meantime, is trying to figure out how to get their attention. And he has used the Swiss army knife magnifying glass to immediately start one of the more robust fires I've ever seen. Incredible plumes of smoke rising from the earth. And it's funny cause we watch a lot of naked and afraid, and these kind of survival shows. So you see what a real survivalist has to go through to get a fire going under optimum conditions. And he's just soaking wet. And the. The magnifying glass just shoots a laser right into this thing and starts.

Steve

It's probably plastic. I remember those little magnifying glasses. It's not even as. As much focusing as, you know, as purely as glasswood. It's like the most ridiculous thing. But luckily he does get the fire going.

Nic

It's a good. This movie is good marketing for a Swiss army, honestly.

Steve

For sure.

Nic

He gets some smoke. So I think that Gale's sees that to at least kind of be assured that he's alive.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

That's somewhere that's proof of life.

Steve

Like, she knows there. There wouldn't be anybody else out here. Right. They're now getting into the Gauntlet. He is. He is on the ridge past the Gauntlet, I think. Or at least right near the opening, something like that. And he's. Yeah, he's blowing. He's using a blanket or his jacket or whatever the hell you had to. To blow the smoke up into the air. So it's big poofs. And she sees it. So she knows he's alive because there's just nobody else who would be out there to do that and who would be trying to signal stuff. Someone.

Nic

And he's. And he's got a bigger plan than that. Along with the signal because he's gathering some stuff. Tom swam. There was a scene of Tom swimming into where he needed to get to down the river in perfect Olympic swimming form. Again with two broken arms. And he looked like Michael Phelps. It was unbelievable.

Steve

I got to be honest. This part. So they get into the Gauntlet. They do a great job. The movie does a great job of ramping up the tension. As we get into the Gauntlet. We know they're going to have that challenge. We see the. The beginnings of it. They really. They really don't oversell the Gauntlet. It really does look horrific. So kudos.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But at the same time, we're cutting between the raft and everything they're dealing with and all of the, you know, pedal this way, do that way. We're going back under. We're getting sucked in. Da, da. Whatever. All this kind of rafting stuff. And then we cut away and we cut to Tom and Maggie straight and the dog. And they're doing something. But I could not for the life of me figure out what the hell the plan was supposed to be. None of it made any sense. I'm like, what is he's trying to. Is he knocking this thing over? What even is this? Yeah, I still quite understand.

Nic

So I think. I think a couple things, greater forces were at play here. One I did love that Tom could basically tie together industrial strength steel cable like it was shoelace.

Steve

Oh, my God.

Nic

And just. Okay, I can just. Ridiculous and stuff with this.

Steve

But double overhand.

Nic

This is a vindication of the architect fact. It shows that you're. If you're able to construct and use your engineering skills, you are useful in a river situation. You don't just have to be my. My nagging wife who's a good, you know, Whitewater guide or whatever. And then the second thing is that Hollywood was still in the midst of Home Alone Fever at this time, and it loved any kind of Rube Goldberg style contraption you can make to. To foil a foe.

Steve

So I gotta be honest. If the filmmakers intended for his background as an architect to be something that the audience remembers at this point in the movie to explain what he's doing. Forgive me, I lost that plot completely. I forgot he was an architect by this point. But it would make sense. This sort of ability to visualize and construct this makeshift thing, I guess could have been something that was based on him being an architect.

Nic

But regardless, it could have been just as effective for him to just appear on shore and say, hey, I'm still alive. And distract him enough that she can knock him off the boat again. So maybe it didn't need to be that elaborate. But I'm glad it was because they gave him a lot to do. I think the Tom character said, hey, I need more to do in the end here. I don't want to just get rescued.

Steve

Right. No, it's true. It makes him. It gives him more agency. Obviously, like I said, Meryl Streep, Gail is the star of this show. She is moving the plot forward and being the hero in a lot of ways. But it gives Tom a chance to participate and he. He becomes an integral part of their escape. It still doesn't happen without Gale being as quick acting as she is. But still, he at least is involved.

Nic

Yeah. And it works. And it flips the boat. So as they're in the gauntlet, or.

Steve

Right about the end of it, I guess.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Is that sort of.

Nic

Yeah, and he flips them. There's a melee in the river. Wade orders Terry to kill. Terry ends up with a gun.

Steve

No, Terry ends up with the knife.

Nic

Terry ends with the knife. Terry ends up with a knife. And he's holding it to the right.

Steve

Wade's got the gun. Or at one point. Point or something. I can't remember exactly how. There was a lot of chaos, and basically, it looked like a lot of splashing. It looked like Wade was telling Terry to kill Tom. But then Gale got the gun. She was able to reach underneath the water and retrieve the gun. So now she's got the gun pointed at Wade. But Wade's one of those guys, like, you're not. You don't have the guts to do it. You're not going to do it. Whatever. And I literally. My last note in my notebook here, in all capital letters, is, fucking shoot him. What else do you need? Like, how was she doing? Right? Like, was he going to convince you.

Nic

That'S the upside of keeping him alive.

Steve

It's all good. No, just. Oh, my God. But, you know, thankfully she does.

Nic

And. Yeah. So Wade gets got. And then, you know, finally gets to go. Gets to complete the gauntlet he's always wanted to.

Steve

Further down river.

Nic

Wade, the way that this movie ended, similar to a recent one that we did, the Fugitive, when the action's done. Oh, yeah, the movies. That's it, baby. That's all we wanted to show you. So the police chopper shows up and everything.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And that's just kind of. We don't need an epilogue of, you know, him working on architectural plans and Rourke saying, coming in with his baseball mitt, and he'll be like, just kidding, and pulls out his mitt out of the tube or something. It was just. That's it. That's all you need to know.

Steve

But also, we didn't need, you know, Gail and Tom renewing their vows to, like, convince us that they're together. They clearly. This wasn't, like, again, a trauma bond. Bonding is powerful, and this clearly brought them back together. And Tom proving, you know, if she had any doubts that he was the man who, you know, loved and would protect his family. And clearly, any doubts like that are gone now because he clearly was in the. In the most dire of situations, in the most, you know, the largest of struggles there was. Tom was there. Tom was there when they needed him. Tom was always ready to do the thing that needed to be done. And so any, you know, should be at that point. Any doubts Gail has should be gone.

Nic

Yeah, Right. Yeah. Good way to end it. Good way to, like, bring that character completely around from where he started. Like, he really made the most progress as a character in this movie.

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

Anybody?

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

And. And it's funny because he was really the fourth most on screen character in the movie. Yeah, but, but yeah, I like, I, I really like that actor, David Strathord and I think he did a great job.

Steve

So one of the things I wrote at the very beginning when I was watching this is like I thought it was, you know, good for him that he got above the title billing when, when, when the credit started it was Meryl Streep, Kevin Bacon, David Strayn, the River Wild. And I was like, hey, this must.

Nic

Have been his first billing like that. I'm trying to think of what he would have been in that was bigger. But yeah, great, great job. So I guess are we're at the end of the film, are we going to do our ratings?

Steve

Absolutely. Maybe I'll go first. My first time away. So like I said the beginning, like I, I didn't know what to expect with this. The first, you know, it is a slow build of the tension at the beginning. So the first 20 to 30 minutes I was a little like, what am I watching? Do I really, am I really enjoying this or not? But when it turned up, it turned up hard. And it's something my wife. I was, I watched these on my iPad, so I have my notebook. I can pause whenever I want. My wife is sitting next to me doing her thing. But I was reacting so visually and viscerally to like the tension scenes and like don't, don't shoot the dog.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

And I literally, I think whooped and cheered at one point when straight there and hit a bacon in the face or something. So she was like, oh, you're clearly enjoying this. And I was like, you know, I, I really am. This was a fantastic thriller. I was very much pleased with it. I think the ratings that it received from Both Rotten Tomatoes 90B are underselling this movie pretty significantly. The cast is fantastic, the cinematography is the kind of stuff you should like study. It's just gorgeous. It's fast paced. The cuts are clean to cut as fast as they do through the action sequences and keep things, you know, feeling chaotic like they should. But actually you can still see everything going on. Yeah, that's not easy. That's not easy at all. So really fantastic. I, I'm sad that I haven't seen it before like that it has taken me this long to see this movie. It came out over 30 years ago, but yeah, it's easy. Four out of five for me. I think this is, you know, a good four star movie. You know, not perfect. It's definitely got elements I think it could have gone Quicker in the beginning. I think that they oversold Tom as the deadbeat dad at the beginning. It didn't need to be that sort of, like, brutal about it. Although, you know, it does make for a good redemption arc. And like you said, he's got the best character arc, really, of the film. Yeah. Good. Four out of five for me.

Nic

Excellent. Yeah. I wonder if Tom is the deadbeat dad at the beginning is almost. This is what it was like through Rourke's eyes. This is what his dad looked like. But, yeah, I agree with everything you said and the way this movie looked because I remember it being entertaining and I like the performances and. And everything, but it's a beautiful movie. I mean, it's just. It's really pleasant to look at. And there's nothing in this movie that's bad enough to distract from the film. John C. Reilly we didn't even really mention, but as Terry in a small role. But again, great actor there. Great actor in Benjamin Bratt. No duds or performances. Even Rourke, for a kid actor at that time, like, you can't get Culkin. You get Tim from Jurassic Park.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Number one sub Culkin, kid actor at the time. I think this is one too, that should be maybe more well known than it is as a good movie. I don't think a 6.2 or 63% is right. I think it should be about a point higher than that.

Steve

I agree.

Nic

10% higher than that. This movie for me is a solid 4 out of 5. Kept me entertained the whole time it was under 2 hours. I like the director's other work. So it's kind of proven that everyone involved in this is. Is. Has had success elsewhere.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And, yeah, this is a gem. This is a fun movie. It doesn't rely heavily on anything but scenery and performances. And yeah, the action is great and really enjoy it. So four out of five for the River Wild. Well done.

Steve

So eight. Eight out of ten collectively. I think that's totally accurate about. Right. I think it's really. Yeah. Where those more public ratings should have been closer to that. And. And yeah, I think it's. It. You know, none of it's cheap. I think that's one of the great things about it. Thrillers can sometimes feel cheap where. Where either the tension or the. Or the. The scares or the action can feel unearned. Everything in this movie is earned. Every. Every bit of it makes makes sense. The characters act in ways that is logical for how they've been established. And even when Tom turns around to become super dad. It's like being a dad, it's like, yeah, I might go to work a lot more than I want to, but I know that if put in a situation like I might not be good at it, but I'm gonna try to do the things he's doing. Yeah, yeah, totally fail, but I'm not gonna not try.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So definitely. Cool.

Nic

Yeah. Good movie from the dad's perspective. We didn't think of that. This is a dad.

Steve

This is definitely a dad.

Nic

We should have an all time dad's ranking and he's, he's going to be on there. So the two dads one movie dad's rankings will be posted at some point, but I think Tom is certainly making that list.

Steve

Absolutely. 100. Okay. Well, that was the River Wild and I think I get to pick our next.

Nic

You're picking next, Steve. I'm really excited to hear what you're going to pick.

Steve

So let's go back in time as we always do. I say, I like say the beginning of every one of these, but it's. We always.

Nic

It's a fun way to start off though.

Steve

Okay, picture it. Sicily. No. So our we graduated high school in 1998. Nic and I did. And so if we think back to freshman year of college, we just started college. A phenomenon is about to sweep the nation. That really becomes a major cultural thing. It was a huge thing on college campuses. I know. You know, throughout my, our college time, it was something that you did everywhere. And that is the game of Texas hold' Em Poker. And there is a specific cultural moment that really made Texas hold' Em important again for a while. And that was the release of the film Rounders.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

We are going to go watch Matt Damon, Edward Norton, John Malkovich in one of the most ridiculously voiced characters he's ever done in his life. And we're gonna watch rounders from 1998 because, yeah, this was a fantastic movie, one that I've loved forever. And I was a huge Texas hold' Em fan in college. I tried to play poker with as many buddies as I could and yeah, this movie was a major reason why.

Nic

Yeah, this movie just fully absorbed itself into the poker culture and it's just, oh, I cannot wait to talk about it. I watched this movie a whole lot of times and I love it. So really looking forward to this one next week, Steve.

Steve

So if you want, want to give us a rating and a review, we would appreciate it. You can go to Apple Podcasts, you can go to Spotify. Follow us. That'd be even better than you'll know when the new episodes come out. And by the way, we've now moved, if you haven't noticed, two weekly releases. We were starting off kind of doing every other week. The last few have come out week after week, so get used to that. We're gonna keep it. We're loving it. Yeah. Leave us a review. Leave us a rating. You can email the show at the show dads1movie.com. That's the number two. And number one the show show at 2dads1movie.com. Let us know what you think. Make a recommendation for a film if you like. I'm not saying we'll listen to it, but, you know, we'll at least read your. Your incoming emails. That's cool. Yeah. So this has been the River Wild. This has been 2 dads one movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next time.

Nic

Thanks, everyone.