Transcript

Intro Clip

Whatever possessed God in heaven to make a man like Rambo? God didn't make Rambo. I made him. Who the hell are you? Sam Trautman. Colonel Samuel Trautman. Look, we're a little busy this morning, Colonel. What can I do for you? I've come to get my boy. Your boy? I recruited him, I trained him, I commanded him in Vietnam for 3 years. I'd say that makes him mine. I wonder why the Pentagon would send a full-bird colonel down here to handle this. The Army thought I might be able to help. Well, I don't know in what way. Rambo's a civilian now. He's my problem. I don't think you understand. I didn't come here to rescue Rambo from you. I came here to rescue you from him. Well, we all appreciate your concern, Colonel. I will try to be extra careful. I'm just amazed that he allowed any of your posse to live. Is that right? Strictly speaking, he slipped up. You're lucky to be breathing. That's just great. Colonel, you came out here to find out why one of your machines blew a gasket. You don't seem to want to accept the fact that you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that'll make a billy goat puke. In Vietnam, his job was to dispose of enemy personnel, to kill, period. Win by attrition. Well, Rambo was the best.

Steve

It's 2 Dads 1 Movie. It's the podcast where 2 middle-aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the '80s and '90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads, 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are diving into 1982 into rural Washington, and we're going to travel along with vagrant Vietnam vet— that's a lot of Vs.

Nic

That's good alliteration. I like that one.

Steve

John Rambo in First Blood. And Nic, you brought First Blood to the table for us. Tell us a little bit about why we watched it this week.

Nic

Yeah, so I became familiar with the Rambo franchise initially through, I think, Part 2.

Steve

OK.

Nic

That's the one I feel like more of the imagery and like the things that people remember about Rambo come from.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Because that was like, you know, the sequel after this thing that kind of came, you know, was unexpectedly a way bigger hit than projected. And I ended up going back and watching this years later. I'm sure I saw this in college. I got the Rambo trilogy on DVD. Now there's like 9 Rambo movies. Who would have thought when Stallone turned 58, they'd stop making them? But no, there's like a ton more since then. Um, and I just like the, like, the indestructible Superman-type character. Sign me up every damn time. Uh, I love the Rambo shit. Stallone cracks me up. He is not a clever one-liner guy like Schwarzenegger.

Steve

Right, yeah, good point.

Nic

He is an unintentional comedy guy, which I really enjoy. Like, he's not trying to be funny, but I am rolling, laughing my ass off when I'm watching him. Um, so yeah, it's some fun Stallone. And I do like the way they set up Rambo's story, 'cause if you just start in Rambo II, you're just kinda like, oh, this is like— there's no way that this is a real guy. Like, it's too illogical. And look, this movie is plenty fucking illogical, but it does a nice job of kind of bringing you from this Triple V, you know, a, uh, a Vietnam vet who's just, you know, trying to find some friends, and you see how that can escalate so quickly if you don't do exactly what the cops say.

Steve

Yep. This is also a clear ACAB, uh, movie as well. Um, for For my part, I realized in watching this, I have actually never watched front to back any of the Rambo movies. All right. Somehow they all passed me. You know, I'm well familiar conceptually with what each one of them represented. That First Blood was, yeah, it was in America. It was like, you know, the things I knew about it were like in America, not as bombastic, much quieter, smaller movie in a lot of ways. Rambo: First Blood Part II, in Vietnam, going back to rescue POWs. Like, that's kind of all I knew. And then a— but then a bigger spectacle, right? Like missile launchers and like bigger stuff. Also huge box office. That movie made $300 or $400 million. Yeah. Really, really enormous. Gigantic. And then Rambo III was like Afghanistan. I think that's where there's like, he, I remember something about him like pulling an arrow out of his arm or something. I think that might've been, or there were arrows involved in Rambo III. He, something like that.

Nic

But he gets kitted out with this bow and arrow where there's like different tips that he can screw onto the arrows. And there's just endless possibilities for delight in this. Unfortunately, in this one, he's kind of stuck with whatever he has and whatever he finds.

Steve

Right, it's a much more grounded, reality-oriented thing. Um, but yeah, so I was like excited to watch it because like, I just in my mind, uh, of the Rambo movies, I thought, well, this is going to be like, you know, this is considered maybe like the best movie.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

In a lot of sense, you know, the, the film has a story to tell and all this stuff. So I was super excited to get into it. But, you know, that's a big blind spot in my, uh, sort of '80s and '90s movie understanding is, is not really, you know, really only knowing the Rambo movies by reputation.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

More than anything else. So yeah, very excited to, to jump into this with you, Nic. And let's get started on the facts on First Blood. Uh, the film First Blood was released on October 22nd, 1982 with an R rating and a running time of 93 minutes. Directed by Ted Kotcheff, it was written by quite a few people. Uh, Michael Cazale and William Sackheim, and separately Sylvester Stallone, all got credits on the screenplay. Uh, and it was based on the novel by David Morrell. It stars Sylvester Stallone, Brian Dennehy, and Richard Crenna. Scores: 86% on Rotten Tomatoes, very high, and IMDb 7.7, also really high.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Uh, we get a thumbs down from the dickhead Gene Siskel and a thumbs up from The brother, Roger Ebert. Love you, Rog. I'm always up for Ebs. No major awards or nominations to refer to. There was, I don't know, the Jupiter Awards, which I think is like maybe a European thing, gave some recognition to this film in the categories under international film or foreign film.

Nic

Nice.

Steve

So that was interesting, but you know, nothing major. On a $15 million budget, which like, I know it's '82, so $15 million better go a long way, but there's like a lot of really great practical effects in this movie. You know, really wonderful stuff with some of the weaponry and different things they did. I really enjoyed it. Lots of good explosions. It pulled in $125.2 million at the box office, over 8 times what it cost. It is a certified, bona fide blockbuster.

Nic

Nice.

Steve

So yeah, those are the facts on First Blood. And Nic, why don't you kick us off, man? How does this movie start?

Nic

Yeah, so we start off and we've got some real beautiful kind of establishing shots—.

Steve

Gorgeous.

Nic

—Of the Pacific Northwest and a very sad instrumental of what ends up being the theme song to them. To the film, uh, and throughout the Rambo movies. It's kind of like the Rambo song, although at the end of this one they do play the song with lyrics, and I don't know why it makes me laugh so hard when it's with the lyrics. I just— it's so funny to me. Um, but we've got John Rambo, and he's looking like a little disheveled.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

He's got his army jacket on and stuff. He's clearly like a drifter. He's got, you know, his pack and everything, longer hair, a little unshaven, and he's walking up to this house which is like supposed to be just like a rundown, like very kind of poor place in the most beautiful location ever.

Steve

Beautiful lakefront property, right? Like this is a big sandpit for the kids to play in.

Nic

Like, and even before it shows the water, just the scene where Rambo's walking down the road, it's like staged for a Bob Ross painting, basically.

Steve

Happy little trees.

Nic

And, um, so, so what he's trying to do is he's looking for this old war buddy of his named Delmar Barry. And, uh, and he's talking to this woman there who's hanging laundry on a line and seems disinterested in talking to anybody who's from the Army, from the government. So he really has to explain to her. He's like, no, like, me and Delmar were friends. Hey, here's a pic. Good. Again, Stallone is very endearing when he's just being like such a simpleton, you know? Like the way he can be in Rocky a little bit. And probably just a lot of it has to do with the real way that he talks and everything.

Steve

The showing the picture here to, as we later find out, Delmar Barry's widow. Delmar has died. But the picture and the stuff, for some reason, made me think of him talking to the character's son in Over the Top and talking about your mom. Your mom and me, like, whatever. And it's this very, like, sentimental kind of thing.

Nic

He overexplains. It's like the way that he talks, like, it's inefficient, but it's so realistic. He's like, oh, here's a picture of us. And, you know, Delmar had to stand in the back. He's so big. He's like, I just like— I like that. That bit of acting from Stallone, I think, is kind of uniquely Stallone. And it does— it, like, it adds a lot to this character.

Steve

He's basically the best actor to play a character with a 70 IQ. Like, that's really just like—.

Nic

100%. So yeah, so he finds out, you know, no, Delmar died a couple years ago. He died of cancer. I think it's that stuff they were spraying, you know, Agent Orange and all these things that— so in 1982, I mean, we're like, what, 6, 7 years removed from the end of the Vietnam War? Yeah, that quote, end of the Vietnam War. Um, and, uh, and, you know, this stuff is coming out that there's these long-term effects of things that the soldiers were exposed to there that are just decimating their lives and everything. So, and it seems like from the way that Rambo reacts to this news that like This is the 3rd or 4th guy he's heard something like that about. Yeah, because he's going through, like, with his picture, you assume that he's just been kind of looking for his old friends.

Steve

Well, and here's the thing, you know that because he leaves the picture with her. Yeah, he leaves the picture with her. And I think there's like—.

Nic

Almost like that's the last guy that was alive. And there's also—.

Steve

He had a little book with him where Delmar wrote, uh, the address down that he was looking for, everything. And that little book he like throws into like a garbage pile, uh, as he walks over a fire pit or something. Like, so he's, he's done. I mean, that's it. He's got nothing else to like Look for. Yeah, right. I mean, this is like clearly like because when I first was watching, I was like, why would he leave the photo? Doesn't he want the picture to find the other guy? Oh yeah. Oh, there's nowhere else. No one else to find. Like he's that's it.

Nic

Very sad. Yeah, no. So he's so he's going into just triple V mode and kind of like walks off out of there, right? Yep. Now we get kind of a shot of the town. We have this beautiful kind of like small town. Yeah. One of those nice looking places. And there's a sign that says Gateway to Holidayland. Welcome to Hope, right? So oh, what a welcoming, wonderful place. Fuck is Holidayland?

Steve

And I don't know. That's supposed to be—.

Nic

I don't know why you would say that. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and Brian Dennehy is playing— he's Sheriff Will Teasle. Yeah. Uh, and he's, oh, saying hi to everyone. Oh, let me help you put those groceries in the car. Hey, you better stay out of trouble. And just, hey, I'm just being a small town sheriff. Oh yeah, I got eyes on everything, and things stay right in this town because I'm around. And, uh, so yeah, he's very nice and very gregarious towards everybody in town, and I'm sure he'll stay that way forever.

Steve

Oh, totally sweet guy. No problems with him whatsoever until half, half a nanosecond later, he spots Our hero John Rambo just walking down the street, walking while a vet apparently. Yep. Um, and, uh, kind of rolls up on him and goes like, hey, uh, you're visiting somebody? And he goes, no, I'm just, just passing through. Oh well, um, let me give you a ride. Let me help you pass through. And so he basically even tells him, you know, you're asking for trouble wearing that flag on your shirt, which is like, look, I get that we're pushing the whole America hates the Vietnam vets thing, which, you know, we were talking before the pod, maybe, maybe that was A little more propaganda than reality as far as—.

Nic

Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably been borne out, is like the— a lot of the stories about the spitting and stuff, not that that didn't happen at all, but that wasn't the prevalent experience of people returning from the war. Although, you know, someone who has kind of the look of a vagrant or a homeless person who has the flag on, that's something that, uh, and to this day, this is something Americans do not want to reconcile with. They don't want to reconcile with the fact that This guy in a wheelchair lives on a bus bench because of something that, that he was sent to do on behalf of our country. Like, so instead of reconciling with that, it's better to just vilify that person.

Steve

I just thought it was interesting that he specifically— the sheriff specifically calls out wearing that flag on your shirt when he has the same flag on the shoulder of his jacket. Yeah, I thought that was just an interesting take. But basically—.

Nic

But it's not like you're— we don't like you because you're pro-American. It's like you put the American flag on that piece of shit.

Steve

Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah. So but it is something that took me a little, not having seen this before, and so therefore And obviously not really being alive or cognitively cognizant when this stuff was going on. Yeah, you know, if it was happening in the early '80s, we were babies. So, um, it's always so weird to me because, you know, especially post-9/11, uh, even as people will disagree on the purpose of, of American military involvement around the world or protest the involvement of the American military around the world, there's still a pretty good understanding that like the troops, even though today it's an all-volunteer military, where people are not being drafted and conscripted into the military, there's still a pretty good understanding of like, we don't hold the like individual soldiers like responsible for the choices of the leadership, right? And the decisions of the leaders to go somewhere and do something. You know, it's like, look, what, you know, should they have done that job or a different job? I don't know. That's a whole fucking moral argument you could make. But the fact is they were there doing a job. And like, it feels like the general tenor, uh, in the country is not to like blame the troops. No. For this shit. Whereas it feels like, at least in media back then, those returning from Vietnam, like you were saying, like there was at least a, um, you know, a narrative around people just, you know, really hating the returning troops, right?

Nic

Well, I think there's also a goal of, of taking any kind of anti-war sentiment, yeah, and twisting that into being anti-troop, because that's an easy— talk about people who don't like identity politics, supposedly. I mean, that's one of the greatest examples of identity politics in the history of this country, is we're able to turn legitimate concerns like, hey, maybe we shouldn't bomb people, maybe we shouldn't fucking kill a million people for whatever reason into, oh, that's 'cause you hate this troop. That's 'cause this guy who lost a leg for you, for you to be able to say that. And you know what? You shouldn't be able to. Wait a minute. Fuck. Shit. So yeah, it sucks.

Steve

Good old moral catch-22.

Nic

For the most part, like, the people who are in the position to actually serve in the Army, especially the ones who are seeing combat, are like the kind of poorest and most marginalized people in our country. Whether or not they're drafted into it or not. So that's not where the ire is directed at, but it does— this movie really tries to make it seem like that's what people are mad at.

Steve

And certainly that's what Sheriff Teasle is sort of leaning on. But he offers John Rambo a ride out of town. He says, you know, he's like, you got some place for me to eat around here? And he goes, yeah, there's a diner 30 miles up the road. It's like, for one thing, he's not driving him 30 miles. He's not offering that. He's just offering to drive him like across this little bridge. He drives him.

Nic

Yeah. So he does like— there's a great episode of The Wonder Years where the older brother Wayne, who's kind of like the dickish older brother gets his license and he's tasked with like driving the kids places. And he's supposed to take them to the mall and he drives them like to the very far edge of the parking lot. And he's like, well, this is technically the mall. And Will Teasle definitely technically gives him a ride out of town because he drops him like right at the edge. And he's like—.

Steve

There's a little sign that says they're going the other direction. Welcome to Hope. Or they're now entering Hope.

Nic

Like, and being friendly. But the whole time, I mean, he's being so menacing without directly threatening him. He's like, well, you know, the law around here is me. Things are quiet and they're quiet. And that's how I like them here and everything. Uh, if I can give you some advice, get a haircut and take a bath. I hope this ride helped. And he drives away like a piece of crap, right? So Rambo— and Rambo is so like also somebody who has, I like, issues with like social issues for sure. Like he's just, he's given like one-word answers and everything. But Rambo gets out of the car and just starts walking back into town.

Steve

He wants, he wants a meal. Like, I mean, that's literally his thought is like, I'm not walking 30 more miles.

Nic

And I'm coming to offer commerce to this town. Yeah, yeah. And do the thing the restaurant is set up for, right? Yep. So, so Teasel can't deal with that because the number one crime in America is disrespecting a police officer, right? And he commits that crime and, uh, he basically is put under arrest for like—.

Steve

Well, he gets put under arrest for resisting arrest. Resisting arrest, which is my fucking favorite. Oh my God. He says something like vagrancy, right? Which I guess, okay, there's, there's laws against it. Fine. So he gets arrested for vagrancy, resisting arrest, and there was something else he said I remember now, but they were all kind of just obviously bullshit type, you know, charges. Um, but you know, He gets arrested, gets taken in, and there's like all these points here where Rambo is interacting with either Teasle or with the other cops at the sheriff's station, whatever it is, where he's getting flashbacks. He's getting these PTSD-oriented flashbacks from Vietnam where clearly he was a prisoner of war for a while. He was tortured. He was, you know, attacked with knives and like whipped and like all kinds of crazy shit. And we keep getting these like flashes and they're very, um, jarring. Yeah. You know, as well they're supposed to be. Um, but he's really like— Rambo's not making it easy for them. He doesn't want to get fingerprinted. So they try to fingerprint him and he's just like keeping his hand off of there and stuff.

Nic

And he's standing on his business that like, I didn't do anything wrong. I don't need to cooperate. I'm not hurting anyone. I'm just not going to do what you're telling me to do. Exactly. Uh, he has— they pull out the classic Rambo knife off his, uh, out from his pants and stuff. And he's like, what's this knife for? He's like, hunting. He's like, what are you hunting out there? Name it. I love that. Just short answers. Yeah. So when they're fingerprinting him, it's funny. The cop is so hilarious the way he's getting so free. He's like, put your hand down, roll it across the paper, roll it across. And he's trying to like move his hand that's covered in ink. And I think this was a time where Stallone was like, hey, I'm pretty good at like using one arm to be really strong. I should make a movie about that someday.

Steve

Someday. And I think that was David Caruso, right? Who's the cop doing that?

Nic

Yeah, whatever. Yeah. So yeah, all these cops, like every cop that sees him come in, they're doing the like, oh, get a load of this guy. Oh, look what you pulled off the street. Street kind of thing, right? Uh, and they tell him that his crime could be subject to— because he's not cooperating or whatever— 90 days in jail and a $250 fine, which it looks like he can't pay. I mean, which would probably mean then more jail time.

Steve

Yeah, probably, right? Yeah. Or you just wouldn't get let out until you can pay the fine or something. Yeah, it's ridiculous. But yeah, but they take a fire hose to him to clean him off. Yeah, they threaten to shave him dry with like a straight razor, which is like— that really sets off his PTSD because, you know, we see that he's been— he was attacked by like a Vietnamese soldier or whatever, you know, with knife, and like they're coming at him with this straight razor and all this stuff. And that's when he fully loses it and he starts kicking, punching, throwing guys into— you know, he's like doing the headbutt, the guy holding behind him, he's doing the full thing, fucking up every cop in this place.

Nic

Oh my God, they're, um, the cops, with the exception of the David Caruso character. Yeah, yeah, who's like the younger guy in the force who's saying like, hey, like, watch out, like, can't you see this guy is crazy? Like, you gotta watch out for this.

Steve

Not really being too sympathetic, but at least like, do we need to use a fire hose?

Nic

Safety Let's not do this. Yeah, and while they're fire hosing him, all the other cops are watching with such pleasure. Like, ah ha ha! The main cop who's kind of antagonizing him outside identity Dennehy is this guy named Galt. Yeah, that's right. Who has like a real good like Sam Elliott style deep voice, right? Yeah. So Rambo takes these motherfuckers out. So he takes out like four guys. Four five. Yeah. Bottom part. There's guys who get it who don't even like have it coming. He runs into the lobby, and for some reason there's a guy with a box. And he just like sweep kicks that guy to the ground. There's guys just like— he's going out of his way to make sure to elbow people and stuff. But he ends up getting out of the police station, out of the front door. He— and he got his knife back.

Steve

Yes, that's the one thing he's able to claim. He doesn't have his jacket or his pack, but he gets his knife.

Nic

Yeah, so he has like a tank top and pants on right now. He doesn't have much going on. And he gets out there and he's like, oh shit, well now I have committed a crime, right? Yeah, I need some wheels for that. And of course does a great fake-out move on a guy who's driving a dirt bike down the street. He steps in front of him and gives the kind of like, ho ho ho, Deke, like side-to-side move, and now he's in possession of the dirt bike, the official vehicle of crime.

Steve

Love it, love it. We're gonna put that on the website. Yep. So, um, so he is driving off and they run out, the cops run out, and Galt has got a sniper rifle kind of thing and he aims it. And then he's like, damn it, Galt, you know, like, don't shoot because there's people. So at least then he's got some sense to him. Yeah.

Nic

Galt though Just wants to kill him. Yeah, he's just like seeing blood for sure.

Steve

So then he jumps into his cruiser and starts chasing off after, uh, after Rambo. And this is one of the best early scenes of action here. It's a great chase scene. They start in town, they're racing through town, you know, and then they're going through the mountain roads. And obviously a dirt bike is just going to be much more kind of capable on like dirt roads and stuff because you see the cruiser is just fishtailing left and right and every turn is a struggle.

Nic

It is like the most indestructible cop car for a while. You think like these things that it goes through, you're like, how is it not destroyed immediately, right?

Steve

So, but eventually they get up another kind of like, like high road, like a really steep dirt muddy road, and the, the cruiser like flips over. It actually flips onto its roof, and, and Denny, he has to climb out unscathed, it seems. Yeah. Completely unscathed. Um, but even Rambo loses the bike trying to go up a hill, and it's just too steep, and it, you know, it stops and he falls off. It's now he's on foot. Denny, he's on foot calling back for like backup and stuff. And it's just now we're in the woods, and it's like, you know, he's got to sort of hide slash try to provide, you know, get himself some provisions or something that he can like work with.

Nic

Yeah, because he's in full— I mean, he's in like, like escape mode, survival mode. He's got to improv a lot of stuff.

Steve

Um, it shows how cold he is. He's shivering a lot. I mean, it's, you know, this is, this is, uh, I feel like it's December. Like we'll mention later, there are a few points in the cop station where you see some like Christmas decorations and things. So we could have made this a Christmas movie. Um, another Sylvester Stallone Christmas. Exactly, that'd be perfect. Um, but, but, you know, it's very cold, rural Washington Washington, you know, that's gonna be freezing. And so he's looking around and he finds this, like, looks like old construction equipment or something, maybe an old, like, rail station, or, or I think it's near a mine. Yeah, yeah, something like that. But there's stuff around, so he's able to, like, find a tarp to turn into, like, a poncho. And he kind of starts getting himself stuff while the cops start building up their presence a little lower down the mountain. Then he's called in all of his buddies and they're getting ready to do a manhunt, right?

Nic

And they've got, and they've got dogs, uh, they've got Dobermans, the official attack dog of the '80s. That's right. Uh, and we've got a helicopter as well. So the cops and resources, there's probably like 4 or 5 cops on foot with the dog guy and the dog. And then the helicopter is also like—.

Steve

And it's not like a police helicopter because like, so Denny, he calls down, he got to get so-and-so with the dogs. And he says, it's going to rain, make them bring the Dobermans because they can hunt by sight. Basically, they don't have to have the— they're like a bloodhound. Um, but then he also is like saying, and get, you know, so-and-so, I don't remember the character's name, with the helicopter. And if he gives you any, any problem for it, tell him it's obstruction of justice, make him get up here. So it's obviously like a civilian that they're like commandeering to get the helicopter involved.

Nic

Which shows that this movie took place in 1982 and not now, because a town the size of Hope would have 9 Black Hawk attack copters owned by the police department, as well as like multiple armored vehicles.

Steve

Um, the police have themselves an RV.

Nic

Um, so we— this whole, like, all of the revenge, like him beating the guys up and getting away, it's very exciting. This is like a really good scene. Uh, and he ends up like running through the woods. The dogs are after him.

Steve

He's not that far ahead of them because he's been hobbled and stuff, and then he's going They were way out in front. And they're moving a little slower uphill. So he is kind of like, you know, getting away in a sense. But yeah.

Nic

But then he gets to the end and he looks down and it's just like a sheer cliff.

Steve

Ridiculous.

Nic

Very Richard Kimball style, right?

Steve

You know, actually the one I thought of when I saw it was Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Robert Redford and Paul Newman. You ever seen that one? They end up on a cliff. They gotta jump into a river from like this cliff to get away from the Bolivian army. But yeah.

Nic

It was River Wild also where the dad ends up, you know. So we got some good cliff action. So way too high for him to jump. Right, so he starts kind of climbing. He's like climbing down, but also just trying to like cling to the sides so he can't be seen. Yep, and he is making some good Stallone noises throughout this scene. There's a lot of so the helicopter comes through this ravine, so they can see him on the cliff. And in this helicopter is Galt, who's the cop, the Sam Elliott voice guy from before with his rifle, and he's not. Trying to arrest anybody.

Steve

No, and then he's yelling over the over the radio like I want him alive. Stop because they can hear the gunshots. Then he calls over because yeah because Galt starts shooting at him and missing. But then he can hear the gunshots. He's like Galt, Galt, stop it! I want him alive. We got to arrest him. Don't you know? Stop shooting or whatever. Because you know they're at least as far as they're aware he's not armed. He's got the knife or whatever. He's not shooting anybody. Right? You know so they can tell that. But basically like Rambo has to make a call here because the the helicopter is getting steadier and steadier and closer and closer.

Nic

And he's He's like fully exposed.

Steve

I mean, there's nowhere to hide where he is, so he just jumps. He kind of lets go and kind of jumps at a tree, which like, this is a little super soldier-y, don't get me wrong. It's not like a human being should do this, but if you're gonna fall that far, like the only chance you have of surviving is going through a tree. Sure. Yeah, because you can break the fall a little bit, and if you don't break bones on the way down, maybe you're okay. And of course he's fine.

Nic

Yeah, and he, he breaks his fall with the tree. The dive that he takes from the cliff to the tree looks like it's 40 feet before he even hits the top of the tree.

Steve

And then it's just like, it's one thing to like be near the top of the tree and sort of fall down it branch to branch. Yeah, yeah. To leap and have to free fall that far just to reach the tree, right? You're probably fucked. Like, that's not— you're not surviving that. But John Rambo—.

Nic

John Rambo survives it. That's not going to be close to the worst thing that happens to John Rambo. Yeah, so he's down there and he is injured, um, but not like fully debilitated, so he can still move. But the helicopter now is like in this ravine and lower, and the helicopter pilot's like, hey, this is like not safe to be in here.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Like, I'm gonna lose control of this thing, whatever. There's a storm coming, all that shit.

Steve

And Danny, he's still yelling over the radio about stop shooting, like whatever, all this stuff. And it's like, look, at this point you're talking about murder. Yeah. Like, the man is at the bottom of a ravine. You've got him covered. You know where he is. There's other cops coming. Like, arrest him. Like, you know what I mean? There's no reason to shoot him now. And so to defend himself, Rambo finds a pretty big rock and he hurls it up at the helicopter. And it, like, breaks and kind of shatters part of the front windshield. But that makes the helicopter pilot, like, jerk the thing, and Gault falls about 30, 40 feet, probably, out of the helicopter.

Nic

No tree.

Steve

No tree. Straight onto a rock. So he's done. And now John Rambo has a gun. Ho, ho, ho. Dude, absolutely.

Nic

Absolutely. Now I have a machine gun moment. So yeah, Gault falls, immediately dead. Satisfying to see that guy go out, 'cause he was, like, a true psycho, right?

Steve

Of the shitty cops in this movie, clearly the shittiest. The worst one, right?

Nic

Right. Um, we've got Rambo quickly doing a little self-surgery, just like in Predator and Roadhouse. We very much enjoy that. And, uh, and he comes out to the cops, are, you know, they see that Gault is down there, and he comes out, he's like, there's one man dead. I don't want any— like, I don't want any harm.

Steve

Like, this is just something that happened.

Nic

But again, cops see a dead cop, just like in The Fugitive.

Steve

Like, yes.

Nic

I'm sorry, you don't have a chance. Like, you're not gonna get taken alive, at least in that moment. Like, no, no, they just start firing at him and, you know, he's, I didn't do anything, and all this stuff.

Steve

And then they— so let me ask you this as a connoisseur of the Rambo franchise. Yeah, so it looks like John Rambo gets shot in the head. He gets shot and he kind of like grabs at his eye or his face or his head, and the next time we see him, he's got that classic Rambo like headband tied around his head. We never get any other indication that he suffered a significant injury to his head. There's not blood running down his face. What the fuck happened there? What is that?

Nic

My only thought was that it was a ricochet of something that got him in the head, maybe like a piece of rock or something else, or just like it very barely grazed him, 'cause he does clearly react to getting hit in the head.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Yeah, and then he's got his headband.

Steve

The headband thing, but there's not really any mention of it. I almost feel like there's a deleted scene somewhere that explains a little more about what happened. But, but yeah, so he does get shot and he has to then run away because now he knows like they're not just gonna take him alive. Like, he can't just surrender basically.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

He has to like defend himself.

Nic

And in the meantime, so when the cops had him at first, he wasn't giving them information. They ripped his dog tag off.

Steve

That's right.

Nic

And of course were belittling him for having a dog tag. This is kind of another media thing, is that between the generations, right, if you had like the World War II generation, right, looking at the Vietnam vet generation, and they had this attitude of like, well, Well, at least we won our war. Like that kind of shit. As if— I mean, look, the individual soldier has no say in whether or not you win or lose that war. Um, but they looked up his information in the meantime, so, uh, they're reporting this to the cops. They're saying like, okay, he was a former Green Beret, he's won a Congressional Medal of Honor and everything.

Steve

He's a war hero.

Nic

David Caruso is like, I knew there was something about that guy. I love how much he loves Rambo's shit throughout the As his friends are dying around him, he's like, hey, that guy's awesome!

Steve

I told you guys he was special. Y'all never listen to me. I should wear my sunglasses more.

Nic

So now we know what's up, uh, move to Miami with Rambo, right? And the— but the storm, the rainstorm.

Steve

Oh, that's right. Now, yeah, it's starting to storm. The cops have got to kind of regroup, and they've got their cute little raincoats on their hats so that the hats look like—.

Nic

First note right here, I love that shit so much.

Steve

It makes them look like like such immense pansies.

Nic

It's the silliest thing in the world. Coats on their hats, dude.

Steve

Like, just let your hat get wet or take off the stupid cowboy hat. You're in Washington, not fucking New Mexico.

Nic

You would look cooler just carrying a parasol like Farnsworth Bentley or something like that. Like, yeah, it's such a funny look. The hat bags always get me. I really enjoy that. Yeah. Uh, and the other cops are like, you know, giving Caruso a hard time because they're just like— because he, he's basically like, we should be careful, we don't know what this guy's capable of. And they're kind of like, don't be a pussy, you just saw another cop get killed, like, I'll kill you if you don't help.

Steve

Right, which is wild. But yeah, they literally do say something along those lines. And then it's like— and then their argument is basically like, it doesn't matter who he is, he's one guy, we have guns. Now they also know that Rambo took— well, they don't— I guess they don't know for sure that they took— that he took Galt's gun yet. Terrible police work.

Nic

Yeah, they discover the body of a guy who was known to have a gun and definitely didn't have on the jacket jacket that he was wearing when he fell. That's true. Yeah, yeah. And they're just like—.

Steve

And they mentioned him taking the radio. They mentioned him taking the radio, so they know he's got the radio. They saw, you know, they can tell that Galt's not wearing a jacket, whatever.

Nic

There's also John McClane here, right? He's got his radio, he's got his gun, he's getting some clothes, he's got shoes luckily.

Steve

Yeah, that's true. Um, but he kind of sets up, uh, we see him setting something up, Rambo, and it's not super clear right away what it is. But as the dogs and the cops are coming through the forest, it's starting to rain, it's super dark, you know, whatever. They see what looks like a figure and they basically open fire and set the dogs off on him. And, uh, there's somebody gets shot and it's hard to tell if one of the cops shoots the dog guy or if Rambo does. Really hard to tell. But we do hear gunshots and dogs whimpering, so the dogs get killed.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

2 of them—.

Nic

They do mention the dogs getting killed.

Steve

2 of them get shot and one of them, it sounds like, gets killed with a knife, maybe because they don't hear a gunshot and they mention that. Um, but really it was just he took the jacket from Gault and like set it up on like a stick to make like a scarecrow kind of thing, like a like a decoy. So now they start wandering through the cops, and they've got the dog owner guy is hurt. The dogs are dead. Gault's dead. They're all start wandering through the the the the thing through through the woods, and he's like hiding and like jumping up at them and like coming out of the trees.

Nic

It is cool. I mean, it's great like guerrilla warfare. Like he's such a ghost in this situation and just popping out everywhere, and he has laid these very elaborate. For how much time he had to set them up.

Steve

Yeah, not very much time and very good. That entire spike strip thing that one of the cops walks into—.

Nic

I could figure out how to spring-load a log, you know, and perfectly like whittle everything down within 20 minutes. Oh my God, if that. You know, this is, this is Rambo. We love him. Yep. Uh, so one of the guys, uh, so they end up like having these various fates, and then we see one of the cops named Singleton who's tied up, tied to a tree with this wire and everything. And they go to— they go to get him, and Rambo pops out with a knife. Yep. Will Teasle goes to get Singleton. Rambo puts a knife to his head, basically saying, I could have killed them all. I could have killed you. Right. And he goes, in town, you're the law. Out here, it's me. Yep. Which— beautiful.

Steve

Let it go. He says, let it go. Oh yeah. And that's Teasle's chance.

Nic

He could just— and honestly, I mean, from Rambo's perspective, this is the best thing I can do to show you that I'm not uh, that I'm not a danger to you is actually become a danger to you and then not kill you.

Steve

Yeah, it makes— honestly, it's good logic. It's basically saying, I need to show you I can get you, that I can beat you if you make this a thing. Yeah. But also that I'm not some psycho that's just out here killing to kill, right? That's— that's— he nails that tenor just right, which is not— that's a— that's a thin line. That's a real thin line he walks on, but he does it.

Nic

You know, with the egos involved, it is impossible to pull that off because you can't have a knife to your throat and then be like, like, okay, cool, I'll let him go.

Steve

Bye-bye. No, fair. But it is like you were saying, it's kind of the only thing Rambo could do.

Nic

The best strategy he had there. Only thing he could do. Um, so at this point now we've called in the cavalry. Yeah, there's news, there's the National Guard, state police, we got the National Guard, there's army jeeps and all this stuff. Uh, I was thinking this would be maybe a, a potential hashtag because it happens in a lot of, uh, films that we have. Yeah, jurisdiction fight. Oh yeah, right. Who's jurisdiction? Because they hate when the feds come in and try to take over. This is my crime scene. Oh, thanks for your Sheriff, we'll be taking it from here. All that kind of stuff.

Steve

Die Hard, The Fugitive.

Nic

Oh man, there's a lot of these there, right?

Steve

It's everywhere. Uh, jurisdictional grievance, maybe that's what we could call it.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

But yeah, so there's all this stuff going on, and, and the state police guy is there to kind of talk to Will Teasle, Sheriff Teasle. And, and Teasle's like, you know, like, oh, this guy did this, because he's basically trying to play the victim. This guy came after a cop, he killed a cop, like all this stuff. It's like, like, what was his crime? And he kind of like doesn't get into like, you know, what exactly he's being arrested for. And that's when, uh, sort of the next—.

Nic

Well, the news drops quickly where someone says, well, you know, one of our deputies said that Galt was actually really hard on Rambo before, was really rough with him, right? So Dennehy dismisses that, and then he's like, what kind of a God would make a man like this? And then probably the best laugh line of the whole movie, right? We got, we got Richard Crenna, we got Colonel Trautman, who walks in, he's like, God didn't make Rambo.

Steve

I made him. I made him.

Nic

And goes into an awesome fucking speech about how Rambo is the best and how he's been trained to eat things that make a billy goat puke and survive and all these things. He's trained to ignore weather, to ignore pain, to— oh, I just want someone to talk to me the way that Colonel Trautman talks about Rambo.

Steve

The, uh, the audience will have heard that at the beginning of this episode, I assure you. Yes, thank you. That was when I was watching the movie. I marked that as like, oh well, This is the intro clip.

Nic

Like, it is, it is so good. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and you know, as far as this being a non-comedy that is hilarious, this is the kind of shit that tickles me to no end. I was laughing so hard during that. I really like it.

Steve

We get with Trautman's appearance, we do get this sort of, uh, struggle or this, this, uh, conflict between him and Teasle. And it's sort of like, it's the engine for like the rest of the movie, which is sort of like, what do you do about Rambo now? Because you've got a situation where Guy who never should have been in that police station to begin with, should have been left alone, let go, get a fucking bite of food, and on his way. You know, now he's in a position where he has committed significant crimes.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

Including, like, attempted murder and, like, all this other stuff, right? So, uh, there's— there's no way to just be like, Rambo gets to leave. Even Trautman says, if you back off now, a couple days from now, he'll leave these mountains, and he'll— you'll pick him up working at a car wash in Seattle or something. Like, he'll resurface. It's not like he's gonna stay hidden, so you'll be able to get him. But if you try to do it this way, you're all fucking dead. This is him in his, like, trained battle arena. Like, you are literally walking into the type of scenario that he was specifically trained to do. You're fucked. And it's an interesting thing, 'cause Trauma's not saying, let him go. He's saying, let him go for now.

Nic

And he's almost playing the role of, like, the Jurassic Park person if there's, like, a T-Rex on the loose, where it's like, yeah, we gotta do something about it, but let me tell you how this thing operates so that you can actually know how to deal with it.

Steve

Yeah, he's like a game warden for John Rambo. Yeah, dude. For sure.

Nic

Um, yeah, so Trautman serves like a really good, uh, purpose here. And, um, so they say, uh, they say something about, um, well, we got 200 men coming here. And Trautman's like, well, if you are going to send 200 men after him, there's one other thing you have to send: a good supply of body bags. Like, how about 200 body bags?

Steve

Well, I think he's saying He won't kill everybody. He's just gonna kill a shitload of guys. Like, eventually you'll back off before all 200 die, I think is maybe what he's saying.

Nic

And there's a quick shot. So as Trautman's kind of talking about Rambo's ability to survive, there's a shot of Rambo like hunting a wild boar. Just like jumps down and kills it. And then one of my favorite things, 'cause I don't like seeing the animal actually killed or butchered, just the quick cut to him carrying the big old leg of boar on his shoulder.

Steve

The hock, the ham hock. Yeah, yeah. And then he's found himself a little like an old mine or something to sort of hang out in. And he's built a fire and he's sort of, you know, been able to— he cooks the hog there and it's clearly where, you know, he's like sleeping. And there's— I think they're trying to get ahold of him on the radio, right?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So Trautman and Teasle are back at the National Guard kind of comms tent and there's a guy, you know, like, like, like, John Rambo, like, please come in, like, or whatever. And he's not responding, but we see him, you know, he's got the radio and he can hear it. And they're just like— he's like, yeah, he's not gonna give up his position for you. Like, if you, you know, which I don't really understand that much about this kind of technology, but apparently you can like triangulate a handheld radio based on I don't know what because yeah it doesn't work like cell phones would work because cell phones would be off of a cell tower many years later obviously so there you have multiple cell towers the signal is coming directly from the radio then there's a way to like zone in on it something yeah something so yeah so they're able to do that and try to do that but they can't get him to respond if he doesn't you know start talking through it then that doesn't do them any good um so they do convince Troutman to to reach out to him basically yeah be like like, you know, and he says he's using all the code words, right? I don't remember exactly, so something about Raven, come in, this is so-and-so, or whatever. It's apparently Rambo's code name or something.

Nic

Yeah, and he's totally go— he's approaching this as if like, I'm dealing with a guy who thinks that right now he is in the Vietnam War, and, uh, and I have to like get, get through to him. So he's able to finally get Rambo to, to pick up, and, you know, he— there's a little chat back and forth, but, uh, Trautman's like, oh, you know, you don't, you don't want to do this, you don't want to hurt all these friendly civilians. And Rambo's like, there are no friendly civilians, you know, referring to the way that he's treated, I'm sure, and everything.

Steve

Yeah, but also one of the first indications— because by the end of this movie, like, it's hard to root for John Rambo. The way he fucks that town up later is like, okay, bro, like, chill out, right? So this is a point where the first time where I went, that's a scary fucking thing for a guy like this to say. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, there's not a lot of sympathy for me to— I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who says there are no friendly civilians.

Nic

Oh, totally.

Steve

That is pretty dark. Now here's the other thing, he's using civilians in the military versus non-military way.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You can also sometimes— will be— will they will refer to— I guess maybe the difference is more cops and citizens. I don't know, civilians. Sometimes that's a distinction used to even mean non-police, non-law enforcement types, in which case it would be a scarier thing for him to say. But he's lumping all of these sheriffs and etc. In with, quote, civilians, right?

Nic

So for him, that's the sort of people who don't like directly understand what it was like to be in the war and all that stuff. 'Cause even, uh, even Trautman says, like, well, I'm a civilian now.

Steve

Right.

Nic

'Cause he was out and everything.

Steve

He's working a desk job.

Nic

Still gets to wear the uniform.

Steve

He works at the Pentagon. He's just at a desk job. He's shining his ass with a chair.

Nic

Yeah. Whatever it was. Um, and so Rambo's like, you know, if it weren't for this king-shit cop pushing me around, whatever. And Trautman's like, well, I understand that, but there's a problem. He's like, they drew first blood, not me.

Steve

They drew first blood.

Nic

He said it twice. And then Rambo kinda— he kinda goes into, like, a revenge coma a little bit, you know?

Steve

But they were able to pinpoint his location because of that conversation. And so now they've sent all these National Guard guys up and they find the entrance to the mine that he's at. And they actually see him, I think, like race back inside as they arrive and start shooting. So there's a little bit of a gunfight that goes on. Basically, there's like this one National Guard dude. And this is the funny part too, there's National Guard, but they're also treating them like Army Reserves where it's like they're all dudes that like have regular jobs. Like, is that how the National Guard— I actually don't know like how the National Guard works.

Nic

So I don't think National Guard is full-time. Okay. But yeah, that's a good point.

Steve

But they really— this guy says to me, I gotta be back at the drugstore tomorrow. It is funny.

Nic

I do like that they highlight kind of the amateurishness of this, but I think it's also to, to draw a distinction between like a real soldier like Rambo and Trautman and these pussy weekend warrior National Guard guys. Right.

Steve

Again, so much right-wing propaganda. Yeah. Yeah.

Nic

So yeah, the National Guard, they're all kind of like chickening out.

Steve

They're like, they don't want to shoot at them.

Nic

They're all ducked behind this. And then the one guy's like, fuck it. Like, let's get the rocket launcher. Right. And so stupid. I'm sorry if you're, if you're not a full-time Military guy, you don't get rocket launcher levels of weapons to fuck around with.

Steve

Well, you shouldn't anyway. That's for sure. That's all. Also, I was almost convinced we were going to get a commando style shooting backwards moment out of this. Is this guy even holding it the right way? Like, but sure enough, he was. It kind of blows up the entrance to the mine, which if nothing else just collapses it, right? They can't even tell if they hit anything or what, but now the entrance is collapsed.

Nic

The whole time, it's total like we fixed the glitched solution. Oh, so Rambo's dead? No, no, no. I don't. I don't think you understand there, Professor. We collapsed the mine.

Steve

We collapsed the mine. Um, but the whole time Will Teasle's been on the radio like, you know, wait till I get there, don't shoot, don't engage him, don't go in, wait till I get there, wait till I get there. So then he gets there and they're all taking like pictures like, like it's fucking Iwo Jima or something, like, oh, Soldier of Fortune magazine and stuff. And he's like, I told you guys to wait. And he's like, come on, Will, what are you talking about? It's like, no, like, you don't just come on, Will, that shit. Like, fucking wait.

Nic

Um, and I think Trautman, uh, now he's gotten word of like— I, I think I'm sure people have been talking about the way the cops were treating Rambo before, so he's kind of like, I know you have him on some bullshit, like what are his crimes, right?

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

And he says vagrancy, and Trautman's just like, oh, vagrancy, that's gonna look really great on his tombstone at Arlington.

Steve

War hero killed for vagrancy or whatever. Yeah. Um, so, but now, uh, Rambo himself has got to find his way through mind because, you know, they collapsed the front. But he's not dead, he's still alive. Um, he finds a bunch of like oil or, or, you know, kerosene or something that was left behind, whatever, and is able to like make kind of a, a torch, um, to walk around. And as he's walking through, he gets introduced to a shitload of rats, which is a new tag on the website. This and this and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade have a shitload of rats.

Nic

Hell yeah, really, man. Good amount of rats.

Steve

Oh my God, there's a good amount of rats in that as well. We should add that one. But like, it's, it's, it's all, altogether too many rats.

Nic

Is this real? I would love— you know what I would love to hear from is like a rat expert Is this really what happens? Because that is terrifying, right?

Steve

When they like attack, like to try to stay out of the water or something. I don't know what was going on.

Nic

Dude, get out of here. Like they didn't seem scared enough by this cool like torch that he made up. There was a quick shot of of the Sheriff Teasel back in his office, and in his background he had clearly some military medals there. That's true. So I don't know with the age difference if he would probably have been a Korean War age person, right?

Steve

Probably.

Nic

Um, so, uh, so Teasle and Trautman now are like in town, you know, for the night. Like, okay, well, we'll go back after this killer in the morning and, uh, and let's have some drinks. And he's talking to Trautman about kind of like—.

Steve

Well, no, they think he's dead, right? Yeah, they all think he's dead.

Nic

And Trautman just— well, Trautman saw— so one of the things that Trautman saw was some smoke, right?

Steve

Was that—.

Nic

He saw a little smoke coming up that he thought like, okay, this didn't have to do with the implosion. This is like Something's—.

Steve

Something's still in there, whatever. Yeah, kind of thing. But he doesn't say anything to Teasle. Teasle's clearly operating under the idea that Rambo's dead now. Um, but they are like, yeah, chatting. There's a lot of— a lot of this movie is conversations between Trautman and Teasle. Like, a whole lot of this movie is— is those 2 characters talk to each other.

Nic

They have more dialogue than Rambo by a lot.

Steve

By a wide margin. And they talk to each other more than any 2 other characters, you know, talk to each other. And so there's a lot more kind of just conversation about that. But basically we cut back to Rambo and he's—.

Nic

Oh, oh, sorry. And Teasle's like, you know, what he says to Trautman is like, so if you do see him, like, would you wrap your arms around him or would you blow his brains out? And Trautman says, uh, you know, I'd have to, I'd have to get a look at him first. I have to see how he is. Yeah.

Steve

So, right, because, because if, if he's calm, then I'm gonna— yeah, like, whatever. If he's coming out like a psychotic, like he's had a break, yeah, yeah, we have to put him down. Like, you know, more like a rabid dog.

Nic

I mean, that's exactly the way that he is kind of treated as this like invention that gets out of hand, or this creation that gets out of hand.

Steve

Monster. Yeah.

Nic

Um, so, so yeah, now we're back with Rambo, and he finds the exit.

Steve

He finds the exit from the mine, and he's able to climb up this ladder kind of out of the mine, and it's real close to where a whole bunch of activity is happening. He hasn't gone real far, um, but he's able to sort of perch himself above the highway or the road there, and as a bunch of like trucks go by, he jumps onto the last one in the line and slides his way down into the cab of the truck. And there's this, like, young guy in there. He's like, oh, and he's like, what you got in the back? M60? Okay, bye. Get out. He's like, open the door, get out.

Nic

He was— I, I had forgotten, like, the exact sequence of this movie, and I started writing down earlier, like, what are the found items that Rambo gets to use, right? So I thought it'd be a fun little inventory list, but it starts with, like, okay, a piece of wire and a tarp that he cuts into, like, making a shirt.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

A rock.

Steve

Yeah. Galt's jacket. Yeah.

Nic

Galt's rifle. Uh, just mystery flammable liquid in the mine that he used to light those torches.

Steve

Yeah, whatever that was.

Nic

Uh, and then a truck with a machine gun in the back of it.

Steve

The M60 with a shit ton of ammo.

Nic

That's the key thing that he found. I think without finding that, a lot of this doesn't happen.

Steve

Oh, the radio. Galt's radio too.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

Very important. That's how he gets found. But yeah.

Nic

But again, now we have another, now I have a machine gun, ho ho ho moment. So, uh, so Rambo gets the truck and he ends up, uh, He's getting away and being chased by the cop cars.

Steve

And it's instantly night. It's really weird. It's sort of dusk-ish when he jumps on the truck, and the very next moment we see him, it is pitch black.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Which is an interesting transition. But yeah, it's nighttime suddenly. And, you know, he drives to like a gas station. It looks like it's maybe got like a used car lot with it too. There's a lot of cars there. And he basically just like parks the truck. And I don't know, how did the gasoline get all over the ground?

Nic

Oh, so he plows the— First, as he's being pursued by these cops, he does this good move where he makes them crash. Like, they're up behind him and he's able to sideswipe them, and they hit this parked car on the side of the road, and it immediately explodes as if it was like a BMW C4 or some kind of car that's like the first car to be made only of explosives. Like, it's crazy, right? Chevy plastic. So, uh, so he takes the truck with the M60 in it and he just plows over all the pumps.

Steve

Oh, that's what it was.

Nic

And then that just makes gas like spray up in the air. So he's got this gas geysering up in the air.

Steve

Right.

Nic

And then of course gets out with the machine gun, blows up the gas station.

Steve

Yep. And so everything is— it's on fire and exploding, and the cars are exploding. He's making this enormous ruckus. And now Teasle, you know, first of all, they got a call back, uh, you know, the, the soldier that was thrown out of the truck did call in that like Rambo's alive, he stole a truck, like all this stuff. So that would— they know they're chasing him. So now Teasle sees, you know, he can kind of see the explosion. It seems like maybe several blocks away from the police station from where he is, but he can see it. It's like, you know, get out there, whatever. And So Rambo is now running around town with this M60 in the belt-loaded— you know, it's a belt-loaded M60. He's got a lot of ammo. He's shooting all of the, like, transformers on the energy, the electricity poles, basically. So he's knocking out huge blocks of electricity as he goes.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

Teasle, meanwhile, has, I think, gone up to the roof of the police station to try to find where Rambo is.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

To try to snipe him.

Nic

And he's also gotten on kind of like the loudspeaker and announced like evacuate the streets, like everyone off the streets and stuff.

Steve

And this is where I find it— this is the point in the movie where I found it very much, much harder to sympathize with John Rambo. It's like he really is terrorizing this whole town. Like, it'd be terrifying if you were just a person in this town to know that there is some crazy person running around with an M60 or with a gun, whatever, and is like knocking out power and is a threat to— it's like, regardless of what, you know, the cops did to him, which were horrible things, like, he's now at the point where he's not really a sympathetic hero.

Nic

Totally. It flipped. Like, it flipped to the point where now he's doing worse things than like what was being done.

Steve

There's no good guys except maybe Colonel Trautman is sort of the guy to root for at this point because he can maybe defuse things. Yeah, but he's also the one ultimately responsible for Rambo being exactly who he is.

Nic

Right, right, right. Yeah, uh, although he's not being used according to the instructions, so that's not on Trautman, right?

Steve

No, must be user error.

Nic

Um, so, so the word gets back, you know, officially that there's no body found. They've kind of pulled everything, uh, out of the mine, and Teasle's like, all right, dude, I'm going for it, right? And before he got up on the roof, there was some good, like, Clark Griswold attic steps that got up to the roof. I like that instead of just the metal ladder. It was such a funny entrance. He's just watching old films wearing, like, lady gloves.

Steve

Right.

Nic

Trying to stay warm.

Steve

Little, like, head towel.

Nic

And the best thing is that Rambo, of course, every town you're able to get access to a gun store.

Steve

Oh, yeah.

Nic

And then they've got the guns that are on display. But then there's always the kind of secret stuff that's behind the fake wall or whatever. So, and he basically—.

Steve

In my life, I want to do this.

Nic

So bad is make a trail of gunpowder and light the end of it and watch it. Like, I would love that, dude. I really— anyone with like gunpowder, uh, hit me up, mail it to me.

Steve

Uh, don't do that. It's a bad idea. Don't do that. Don't, don't empower this man's weird fantasies.

Nic

Uh, but he, he basically blows up the whole gun store and there's, you know, all the bullets are going off. So crazy distraction, plus destroying a lot of the excess armory if the citizens decide to come after him or whatever, right?

Steve

It was mostly— he was probably more about the distraction, I think. Yeah, like he wants Teasle looking that way. I mean, that seems to be what he's doing, right? By knocking out power in certain areas, he's giving himself cover, but he's also like giving Teasle— are you trying to direct Teasle's attention?

Nic

Yes.

Steve

From one place to another. And that's, and that's what he's doing. And it works because he kind of hides in a corner after blowing up the ammunition, the gun store, and Teasle peeks up over, you know, the, the roof of the police station to look, and, and Rambo spots him. And now he knows for sure, okay, he's on the roof of the police station. That's where he he's at. So Rambo goes into the police station and there's this tense sort of moment where Teasle is like looking down through a skylight down into the station as Rambo's kind of coming in. Who's gonna see who first, whatever. You know, somebody, you know, like Rambo runs and Teasle shoots at him through the glass, doesn't hit him. But you know, Rambo's got this crazy M60, he just shoots through the ceiling. Yeah. And I guess shoots Teasle in the foot or leg or something, right?

Nic

Like, um, yeah, it gets him all the way through the ceiling. Uh, his shooting spree is, uh, very nice here. At one point they shoot one of those like water cooler, uh, things, but it was back when they were all glass, which is a great thing to see get That was really nice. Yeah, so he's get— he's got Teasle, you know, he's in the police station.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And, and Teasle falls down like through the sky.

Steve

Right, through the skylight.

Nic

So Rambo shoots the ceiling, basically forces Teasle to fall through the skylight, right? And Rambo's there like ready to kind of finish him off, and Teasle's like, you know, just kind of like, go ahead, like, do it, do it, do it. And then Colonel Trautman comes in.

Steve

Mm-hmm.

Nic

And he's able to talk to him. He's like, Hey, John, you're surrounded. You know, yeah, it's over. And John's nothing is over. And we get this like really—it's well done. It's like the character is very unhinged at this point, and this speech that like in parts makes a lot of sense, and in parts you're like, oh dude, you're looking at this wrong. Whatever. But pretty powerful. You know the way that he's talking about the difference between in the military, and I think a lot of people have this experience. I had like a purpose. I had status. Like, I was put in charge of important things. I was put in charge of expensive equipment. Here I can't even hold a job parking cars. Yeah, this world is not built for me. Like, I need to be in that world, otherwise nothing fucking makes sense.

Steve

Yeah, it's a heartbreaking speech. It's well acted by Stallone. You know, he— like, we make fun of him a lot, and a lot of times he is kind of a make-fun-able actor, but there are moments where he really is is able to put a lot of emotion on screen, and, and this is one of those scenes. Um, and it really reminded me of like, uh, you know, you've seen Shawshank Redemption and they talk about guys' life, or, you know, guys who are in there for almost life, Brooks, right? And they get out and they just don't know what the fuck to do with their lives because there was structure and order and things made sense, you know, where they were, whether that's prison or the military or whatever kind of, you know, structured organization that you remember that kind of does— when you're in it, it controls everything about your life.

Nic

You're required to fully buy into that structure and order in both situations. Yeah, it is what it is.

Steve

And so then you lose and you join the ranks of the free, essentially, one way or another. And yeah, it's like nothing is sort of like— nothing makes sense anymore. Nothing is in the place you expect it to be. And it's heartbreaking. It's absolutely heartbreaking. And it is, you know, it is retroactively sympathizing for the character. Like, we understand now this has been essentially like a PTSD-induced psychotic break for most of the movie.

Nic

100%. And especially the very end, like when he's talking about, you know, Like, all my friends are dead. And he goes into this story about how, you know, I left my friends for a minute and this kid came up with a shoeshine box to my other friends, but the shoeshine box was wired with a bomb and there were pieces of them all over me and I was holding and just like, I honestly like Stallone really going for it.

Steve

Yeah. And the whole, the whole thing though, the visual of he was begging me, he wants to go home, I want to go home. And I said, okay, I'll take you home. I just got to find your legs. I can't find your legs. And it's like, Oh my God, it's absolutely heartbreaking.

Nic

So because like, no, I mean realistically, like no human is meant to ever experience that kind of—.

Steve

No, no, no, no, that's not something— our brains are not set up to handle that kind of terror. Yeah. Uh, and, and whatever. So yeah, so there's that. But this is sort of the end. Yeah. Uh, for Rambo in a lot of sense, you know, basically Trautman convinces, uh, Teasle to let him arrest Rambo. He's walked out of the police station in cuffs, and, and that's really how the movie ends, as, as the, the Theme starts playing, as you said, with lyrics. Yeah, but we just get that shot of Rambo walking down the walking down the street.

Nic

Yeah, and you know he spared Teasle's life, but he fucked up the entire town and took out some people. But yeah, so that's the end of it, and that is first blood, man.

Steve

That's the whole deal.

Nic

Well, this was my choice, so I guess I'll go ahead in with my review. A couple things about this movie that are kind of interesting. So originally, and I wonder, you mentioned earlier like there are these 2 writers, these 2 main writers, and then Stallone was an additional writer.

Steve

Correct.

Nic

One of the changes that I've read was made from the original story is that Colonel Trautman was supposed to kill Rambo at the end of it.

Steve

Oh, interesting.

Nic

You know, so it is just like the creator like, like taking out his creation because of the damage that it's caused. And that would have made a lot of sense. And there was that conversation about, do you wrap your arms around him or put a bullet through his head? Yeah, and that was kind of the original plan. And I don't know if it was Stallone who decided like this IP is too good for him to get killed, or or just like I don't want that to go that way for this veteran or for this person.

Steve

You know, I think it's more that Stallone doesn't get doesn't die in his movies. I mean, Stallone doesn't die in his movies. What movies he ever died in? At least at that point in his career. And like, and then like, you know, maybe maybe into the 2000s as he got older, did he allow that? I think like one of the Rocky movies he or in Creed or something, he finally does die or something like that. But like for the most part, Stallone does not get killed. It's like Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger doesn't get killed.

Nic

Stallone thing. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, so, uh, there were kind of a couple guys, a couple real-life guys that, uh, and there's probably hundreds that claim this, that are the supposed inspiration for John Rambo. Um, 2 different ones. And watching this movie and watching the other 2, it's almost like one of the guys is First Blood Rambo.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

And one of the guys is the second 2 movies, uh, Rambo.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

So the first guy, and like the main guy that kind Comes up when you look it up is this guy named Roy Benavides, who was a veteran, like a special forces guy. He was injured by a landmine in 1965, was like not walking, was discharged from the military and everything, told he wouldn't walk again, managed to get himself walking again, managed to recover, and like demanded to be put back in the action. So he was like holy shit back in Vietnam in like 1968 and had all these missions and all this like heroism, like won a bunch of. Awards and stuff. So that's very much like Rambo's ability to ignore pain and all that kind of stuff.

Steve

Sure.

Nic

There's this other guy named Bo Gritz, um, and Bo Gritz's story was that he was a Special Forces guy, a very decorated guy. Um, he actually trained, uh, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, which is very Rambo 3. Um, but one of the things I read about him is that he was kind of involved in the nomination process in several of the medals that he received, and a lot of the medals he received were kind of— were for the same thing. So there could have been, like, one act that got him, like, a Purple Heart and a Congressional Medal of Honor or whatever.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

So he juiced his— juiced his numbers a little bit. Um, but he got really into the POW/MIA stuff after retirement and actually went on these, like, privately funded missions in the '80s and '70s to try to, like, do reconnaissance or bring back POWs from Vietnam. And this was funded by private cit— like, uh, Clint Eastwood, Ross Perot were mentioned as people who were, like, into this and were, like, funding his work. So I just thought that was interesting of, like, talk about the kind of Couple of real-life Rambos there. So this movie, I mean, this is right up my alley. I had a big-ass smile on my face. Like, as far as there's a lot of comedies like that don't work for me. Yeah, because movies like this to me are the true funny movies. Like the stuff that Rambo's doing, I can't help but just be like giggling. And you know, obviously there's weight to this film and the story and the background and everything. Everything, but I just get such a delight watching him get his little revenge and like the things that he sets up and stuff. I had so much fun throughout this movie. I thought it looked good. I thought the performances were good. Um, nothing distracting as far as like budget limitations that hurt the effects. Uh, I love the theme song without lyrics. Um, and, uh, wait a second, is this a zero-woman movie? I guess other than the woman he talks to at the beginning. It's kind of like an all-man movie.

Steve

I mean, pretty much. Barry's— Barry's widow, Delmar Barry's widow, is, is in it, and there's maybe one other woman in town. There's a waitress, uh, that talks to Trautman and, and Teasle, but that's about it. So definitely does not pass the Bechdel test, you know, 2 women speak to each other, whatever.

Nic

Certainly does not. Um, but I had a ton of fun with this, and there's a reason why they made sequels off this character, right? And it's funny how cartoony he became, because even in this movie he becomes pretty fucking cartoony. Yeah. And it just keeps going and going and going. I love First Blood. I think it's, uh, I think it's a delight. It makes me smile a lot.

Steve

I'm a 4 out of 4 and a half out of 5 for First Blood. Very nice. Yeah. For my part, like, not quite as ebullient as you are on it. I do think it was, it was a good watch. You know, the character, like I said, I struggled with sympathy for the main character at times. Times. Um, I found the villains to be a little cartoonish. And again, this is like not really maybe fully understanding, uh, uh, the placement within media at the time of like how we treat vagrants and Vietnam vets. I mean, just, it seemed like the cops were so over the top.

Nic

Awful. Yeah.

Steve

You know, and it's like, all right, like I get it, you know, but also just, it kind of pulled me out a little bit. Um, and then it was like there's something structural that I, that I didn't love about the movie. The way that like Rambo, because he's He's this one-man army alone in the woods for so much of it, like doesn't say much of anything ever. And most of the conversation that occurs in the movie is between like Troutman and Teasle, and a lot of it's just talking about Rambo and telling us things he's done or like kind of who he is. All right, so, but you know, the action sequences are really good. That chase, that dirt bike cop car chase is really well done. Yeah, you know, a lot of the stuff near the end is good. You know, I guess that by the end I'm a little bit like, bro, like could you not just terrorize this town? The town didn't do anything to you. Like, right, go get the cops, fine, but like Jesus. Um, and I just think that in general, you know, it's a very short movie, and I think the issue I have with action movies that are really short is like I need to give a little bit more of a shit about what's going on other than just the survival. Like, I don't know, like there's an element there. I still really enjoyed it. I still think it's— it was a good movie. I would recommend it to anybody who likes '80s action movies. If you haven't seen First Blood, you absolutely should. Um, I am a 3.5 out of 5 on First Blood. I still definitely enjoyed it, just not quite like a glowing review maybe, but yeah. Yeah, that's fair. That gets us 8 out of 10, uh, altogether on First Blood. So yeah, that's, uh, that's where we landed as a duo. Excellent.

Nic

Oh, one, one other thing about this movie is I don't think they say the phrase— and I don't know when this like entered popular culture— but they don't say PTSD anywhere. They don't talk about— I didn't hear flashback. No, I mean, so a lot of these things that would have made it so much easier for Trautman to explain Rambo, right, to the cops. I don't know if they weren't in the vernacular or they just chose to not talk about it.

Steve

No, I think that was pre— really any kind of understanding, you know, of exactly what, what that kind of effect, you know, what that has an effect on people. So, oh man, yeah, he was just before his time in that sense.

Nic

Well, shoot, we're, uh, we're on to, uh, your choice now, Steve, and we're in a free-for-all, so we can go wherever we want with this.

Steve

And we're gonna do— we're gonna definitely do a little tonal whiplash here. We're not, we're not going down this road Uh, any further as far as, uh, the one-man army or anything like that. Uh, in fact, we're going to a very ensemble, um, type piece from a writer-director team that we've seen once before. I know for sure, I think just once so far, but a huge, huge, uh, pair of filmmakers, uh, for the '80s and '90s. Uh, the, the cast of this film is just outstanding with a lot of people that we've seen before, uh, and then several new folks. But some of our favorites are in this movie, including Sam Elliott, who we've talked about about in this episode is a guy that sounded like him. But Sam Elliott's in this. John Goodman is somebody you and I both love. Uh, uh, Philip Seymour Hoffman is in this. Uh, and of course stars Jeff Bridges. Uh, Steve Buscemi we've seen before. We're gonna see The Big Lebowski from the Coen Brothers.

Nic

Oh, the people have spoken. This is gonna be a big one. I like it.

Steve

Such a hit movie for people our age. I feel like it is just— it hit at just the right time. I think it was '96 it came out, right in high school. It's just— there's so many things that work Oh yeah. And it's gonna be a lot of fun to watch. Um, I don't know if, uh, if you've seen it recently or not, but—.

Nic

No, it's been a while. It's probably been 10+ years for me.

Steve

All right, that's good stuff.

Nic

Oh, I'm excited, man. That's a good choice.

Steve

So next week, The Big Lebowski will be what we bring to you. And that's a wrap. So if you like what you hear, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a 5-star review. It helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website at twodads1movie.com. That's the number 2 and the number 1. There you can explore the movies we've covered, sign up for our newsletter, The Rewind, and even get sneak previews of upcoming episodes. Once again, this has been First Blood, another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening, and we'll catch you next week. Thanks, everyone.