Transcript

Intro Clip

But they're engaged. Doesn't matter. It can't happen. Why not? It's bound to come up. It's impossible. Lois could never have Superman's baby. Do you think her fallopian tubes could handle his sperm? I guarantee he blows a load like a shotgun right through her back. What about her womb? Do you think it's strong enough to carry his child? Sure. Why not? He's an alien, for Christ's sake. His Kryptonian biological makeup is enhanced by Earth's yellow sun. If Lois gets a tan, the kid could kick right through her stomach. Only someone like Wonder Woman has a strong enough uterus to carry his kid. The only way he could bang regular chicks is with a kryptonite condom. That would kill him. How's it I go from the verge of hot Floridian sex with Brandy to man of steel coital debates with you in the food court? Cookie stand is not part of the food court. What? Of course it is. The food court is downstairs. The cookie stand is upstairs. It's not like we're talking quantum physics here. The cookie stand counts as an eatery. The eateries are part of the food court. Bullshit! Eateries that operate within the designated square downstairs qualify as food court. Anything outside of said designated square Square is considered an autonomous unit for mid-mall snacking.

Steve

It's 2 Dads 1 Movie. It's the podcast where 2 middle-aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the '80s and '90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we are talking about the 1995 Sophomore release from filmmaker Kevin Smith, Mallrats. And this was my pick for us. Uh, we, we saw Clerks a couple months ago as part of our, like, 2 Dads, 2 Decades as we're going through. That came out in '94. So a year later, Smith gets a significant amount of money from Miramax, uh, who of course distributed Clerks because he made, right, 11,000% or whatever.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

Of the invested money on Clerks. So they were like, oh, this guy knows what he's doing, let's give him money. So Miramax no longer exists as a studio as of today. I'm not saying this is why, but no. So, you know, we'll get into the facts and get into the specifics, but this has always been in many ways, like, we know, you know, we talked about this when we did Clerks. I'm kind of a big Smith head.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

I love Kevin Smith movies. Big Jay and Silent Bob guy. Haven't gotten as much into like Red State and Tusk and some of the ones he does that are outside what they call the View Askewniverse, which is all the Jay and Silent Bob related stuff.

Nic

Right.

Steve

But I love these movies, and, and I have never once thought Mallrats was the best of his movies in this sort of universe, but I think it's been my favorite for most of the time. Uh, it's— personally, I love this one.

Nic

And did you see— did you see Clerks first before this? So this, you would have been aware maybe of this and then gone back to Clerks?

Steve

Yeah, I'm almost positive I saw this in like '96, maybe before I saw Clerks. Uh, But it was like close. It was like, I think as soon as I saw Mallrats, it may have even been '95 depending on— yeah, and this came out late '95, so it wouldn't have hit VHS until like early '96. I probably saw it like when it hit Blockbuster 'cause it was all comic books.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You know, even the like cover art for the VHS sleeve, right, was like very comic booky. And it was like a Star Wars reference. It looked like the Star Wars poster with like Renée at Brody's feet and like, you know, it looks kind of like that thing. So I grabbed it right away and then, you know, didn't know who Kevin Smith was, but like as soon as I watched this, I was like, that's cool. Oh, he's got this other movie. Also at Blockbuster.

Nic

Nice.

Steve

You should go check that out. So I think by like early '95, I'd seen both movies. And then, you know, it was actually funny. I didn't see Chasing Amy, the one that comes after this, until many, many years later after seeing like Dogma and a couple others of his movies. For some reason, Chasing Amy missed me. And that might actually be the best, like best film that he did in this sort of group. We'll probably get to it at some point 'cause it was also the '90s. But yeah, so Nic, what's your background, if any, with Mallrats?

Nic

Yeah, so, Never seen this. I think I might've caught parts of it before 'cause some of it looked familiar, but watching the whole thing, I was like, I definitely haven't sat and watched this before. Sure. Yeah, and like we talked about before with Clerks, like I was never really like a Kevin Smith guy. Yeah. Although I did see Dogma like kind of soon after it came out.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

Not in the theater, but like pretty soon video. I really liked that one, I remember. Yeah. And then that became like a pretty hard to find video for years. And I don't know if it was like a studio clearance thing or just they, I don't know what it was.

Steve

Oh, I got the story on that if you want to do it real quick.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

Harvey Weinstein personally owned the rights to Dogma.

Nic

Oh, okay.

Steve

Himself. So Smith has gone on record many times talking about this. I've been to a couple of like an evening with Kevin Smith sort of spoken word Q&A sessions with him over the years. A lot of fun. He's a really fantastic speaker, tells great stories. And one of the stories that he told a few years ago— I think this has changed now because Dogma is now more available. I think it's back out on DVD. I think Smith re-bought the rights. He kept trying to buy the rights from Weinstein through, you know, their respective representation, right? While Weinstein's in jail, he was offering him like, man, I'll pay you like $800 grand for the rights to this movie. Like, what, what are you gonna do with it? You're in jail, kind of thing, whatever. And Weinstein basically like never responded. And Smith felt so dirty offering this guy money to begin with, but he wanted to own his, his—.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

You know, so I do believe— I don't know the details of how or what transpired, but I do believe that, uh, since that— because I think this is a story I remember hearing about 4 or 5 years ago— and since then Smith has regained the rights one way or another.

Nic

Okay, so that's why it's been around a couple years.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. Last couple years you can find it, but before, yeah, maybe last year or the year before, I think at the latest or furthest back, you couldn't find it on DVD. It was not streaming anywhere. No, my wife found me a copy.

Nic

I almost thought like it didn't. I almost thought I hallucinated it for like a stretch of a couple years because I couldn't remember it clearly enough to be sure, right? And it's like, I can't fucking find it anywhere.

Steve

I have a vague recollection of a movie where Alanis Morissette was God.

Nic

Like, did I— was that a fever dream?

Steve

Or was that right? Yeah, anyway, that's not the one we're talking about today.

Nic

Okay, so it turns out Harvey Weinstein, bad guy.

Steve

Oh my, yes, as it turns out. I'm not sure if there are other reasons that he, you know, should be shunned, but certainly, yeah.

Nic

Yeah, so, so that was kind of my limit of Kevin Smith experience. We watched Clerks a couple months ago and stuff. So yeah, I'm pretty new to this one. And, you know, even the actors in it, like a lot of people are not ones you see a lot. Although I did like Jason Lee from that show, My Name Is Earl.

Steve

Oh yeah.

Nic

I thought he was, he was funny in that. He's been a funny actor in a lot of things. Yeah. Um, but yeah, this was like a lot of unfamiliarity for me. So, uh, yeah, pretty, pretty fresh to this one.

Steve

And of course, if you're, if you're familiar at all with, with the kind of broader Kevin Smith universe, the people like Jason Lee, Ben Affleck, uh, you know, um, there's just a handful, obviously the Jay and Silent Bob characters. There are a handful of people in this movie. Joey Lauren Adams shows up a bunch as multiple characters. Um, you know, you get used to seeing these actors together. And I love too, there's like a little funny, funny connection because this is Jeremy London. Uh, I believe— crap, I can never remember. Yes, this one's Jeremy London. His twin brother Jason London was in Dazed and Confused. Joey Lauren Adams was also in that, but like, you know, with the other London twin.

Nic

It seems like there's some early, like, at least Kevin Smith link letter crossover between like some of the casting. I was even reading about the, the casting director because when I was looking at the credits, I was like, there's a lot of Scientologists in this movie. And I was like, I wonder if that, you know— so I go into my rabbit hole. But it turned out he did the casting for a lot of Richard Linklater stuff. He's the guy who discovered McConaughey in a bar in Austin to cast him in Dazed and Confused and stuff. So yeah, anyway, like a lot of crossover with those, those 2 guys was like young filmmakers of the '90s.

Steve

And if you're thinking about, you know, we talked when we saw Desperado, we talked about like the connections between like Robert Rodriguez, Quentin Tarantino, P.T. Anderson, Kevin Smith. These guys were all operating Linklater right at around the same time. Yeah, kind of in the same ballpark of like budgets and indieness and whatever. So a lot of these guys knew each other and there was, yeah, a lot of, if not if not just conversation, sometimes even like collaboration that kind of went under the radar.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So it wouldn't shock me if there was a tighter connection there. So let's jump into the facts. That's a lot of preamble. Let's jump into the facts on Mallrats. The film Mallrats was released on October 20th, 1995 with an R rating and a running time of 95 minutes. Written and directed by Kevin Smith, it stars Shannen Doherty, Jeremy London, and Jason Lee. Rotten Tomatoes didn't— the critics didn't love this. We get a 58%, just under that freshness bar of 60. We get an even 7.0 from IMDb, which is again sort of right at that bar of like, is this a good movie or not? And then Siskel and Ebert were the old curmudgeons on this one and gave it 2 thumbs down. There was no awards activity whatsoever that I could find. Completely blank awards page on IMDb, partly because on a $6 million budget, this pulled in just $2.1 million at the box office for about 0.35 times what it cost. So we'll have to see how that stacks up to Basketball as far as—.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Negative return on investment from a percentage standpoint.

Nic

Right. So this was a rough one, though. Harvey Weinstein may have lost some money on this one.

Steve

He might have. Hopefully. We can only hope, you know? So, okay, so I'm gonna kick this off. Yeah, please. But before I do, I'm gonna put a little thing in here, which is that one of the things I love about this movie is the director's commentary track that you could get on DVD. It's still available. It's out there. If you get a Blu-ray or DVD, it should be there. It's one of the best DVD commentary tracks I've ever heard. Because it's Kevin Smith, Jason Lee. It's not Jeremy London, but it's like Jason Lee, Jason Mewes, Scott Mosier, who is a producer on almost all of Kevin Smith stuff and also in this in a small role. Ben Affleck is there, and they're all just sitting around chatting, and it almost like you could imagine these guys all have like a beer or a joint or something, and they're just hanging out, right? And just chatting. Kevin goes into a lot of stuff about the original cut of this movie, which was two hours long, not ninety-five minutes, and it included this entire subplot where. The friction between Mr. Svenning and T.S. Is actually based not in this story that we'll get to at the beginning here of a girl dying mid-backstroke at the YMCA, but instead at a botched attempt, like a botched event where Svenning is supposed to get a check from the governor to like spruce up his public access channel or whatever, like bring his business to the next level.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And T.S., it gets caught up in this thing where it's like he's dressed as a Revolutionary War soldier for a play that's gonna go on in the governor's honor. He's got a musket. It ends up looking like he tries to shoot the governor and like it fires a blank and everything. And it all gets like figured out, but the governor doesn't give Svenning the money and he then resents T.S. And there are references throughout the movie to this event at the governor's mansion that was eventually cut for the theatrical release and continued to be referenced over and over again. So they had to cut all kinds of stuff throughout. There's places where like if someone's back was turned, they would just re-record the audio, like the vocal track or whatever.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Other places they had to like get creative or like add a little scene here or there. So I'll point out some places where that happens because I have seen the extended cut and can kind of comment just 'cause I think it's interesting. But we start off the very beginning with this story from Brody, the Jason Lee character, where he's talking about Cousin Walter. And there's all these stories about Cousin Walter. You'll hear references to Cousin Walter throughout many of the movies. You'll hear references to Walt Flanagan throughout many of the movies. And Walt Flanagan's a real guy. I believe he's actually in this. You know, he's one of these bit actors that shows up in Kevin's movies as a childhood friend of Kevin's. So there's just a lot of like references. Like there's something about, like at one point Jay says, guy's faster than Walt Flanagan's dog. It's like, that is just a reference between friends. Like, there is no reason anyone else would have anything to do or anything to understand that. So Brody's talking about, like, Uncle Walter— not, his cousin Walter, and, like, buying gerbils and, like, getting them stuck up his— it's a crazy story about getting gerbils stuck in your ass while we're seeing pictures of the stores in the mall to kind of establish that the mall is where this movie takes place. Because in the original cut with the governor's mansion, they didn't get to the mall until 29 minutes into the movie, which was one of the reasons they were told to be a little more judicious in the cuts. And then we get, like, this opening credit sequence with, like, it's all comic books. And then finally, when the movie starts, 'cause it is several minutes in, With all this going on.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

We see T.S. Quint, played by Jeremy London, uh, driving up, uh, with a loaded station wagon ready to go to Florida to his girlfriend Brandy Svenning's house, and Brandy is outside waiting for him.

Nic

Yeah. Um, and I will say the beginning, like the, the comic, the drawings of the actors as the credits, like that was pretty cool. And this is before like this huge wave of everything is like— it's not— you see something that's, oh, it's comic books, like who gives a fuck now? But back then it was like, oh, this is kind of neat.

Steve

To this point, you had like Superman movies, you had Batman movies, but the X-Men in 1998 or '99, one of the two is when X-Men came out. That's when it was like, oh, wait a minute, maybe there's more that we can do here with comics. And it was like Spider-Man with Tobey Maguire in like 2000 or '01 that really, okay, now we know we can keep running with this kind of thing. So yeah, so this was this comic book angle, this idea of like putting Stan Lee in the movie and like all this stuff. This was like pretty fresh. This was not, you know, today it seems much more common 'cause the MCU and everything and Stan Lee before he passed, RIP, was like in several of those MCU Disney movies just being in the sidelines somewhere in the background.

Nic

He was very available to be like sitting at a cafe or something.

Steve

Exactly, on a bus or whatever, like, you know, watching something on his little phone or something.

Nic

Yeah. Um, so, so TS and his girlfriend are like having an argument, right, where TS had told, uh, he had— the, the argument is that he had told some girl who was going to be on the TV show that the camera adds Like 10 pounds, right?

Steve

10, 15 pounds, yeah.

Nic

So they're in this discussion, and it turns out that this girl, did she kill herself or did she—.

Steve

So she gets into the pool at the YMCA and starts doing laps, just doing laps, doing laps, doing laps, and dies of a heart attack, which is referenced in Clerks, right? This is the girl.

Nic

This is the funeral they went to?

Steve

This is the funeral they went to.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

So this is Dante Hicks and, I can't remember the character's name. Randall. Randall, Randall, thank you. Randall Graves are gonna go to the funeral of that girl on this day as well. So this takes place on the same day as Clerks.

Nic

Oh, okay, gotcha.

Steve

Okay. Uh, Jane, Silent Bob apparently move around a lot, or maybe it's like the day after. It's— but it's like right at the same time because that event is what is the, the funeral they go to in Clerks.

Nic

Okay, gotcha. Yeah. And, and when they're having this discussion here, um, for some reason the girlfriend says TS like 60,000 fucking times, and I just want to rip her vocal cords out temporarily until she calms down and stops saying it because it was driving me fucking crazy. Um, but it turns out she's like, you know, I'm not going on this trip anymore. Like, this girl was supposed to be the contestant on my dad's show, and now he needs a contestant, and that's gotta be me. We're not doing this trip anymore.

Steve

And she's like, my dad's so pissed at you, and the only way I could calm him down— but I did calm him down. He's like, oh great, how? He's like, well, I told him I do the show. And T.S. Is like super pissed at it because he's calling it like you're putting yourself on an auction block. It's sort of a Dating Game ripoff thing where there's one— they call them suitors and suitorettes in order to like avoid being directly naming convention or naming a conflict. And so, you know, he's super pissed. A, he was going to take her down there. They're going to Florida to Universal, whatever. And he was going to propose to her. We find out in a minute. And she obviously didn't know that clearly. But she's like, I'm not going to Florida. And he's like super pissed off about it. And he responds poorly. But these are like 22, 23-year-old, 21-year-old kids. Like these are not like mature adults really, right? These people are still young. So he reacts like an idiot. Yeah, totally acceptable. But this was the replacement storyline to sort of like spark the why is there a problem between TS and Mr. Svenning that replaces the whole governor's mansion thing is just this comment about the contestant. And everything.

Nic

So was the rest of it the same then?

Steve

Like, mostly. There are a few places— I'll point out a few places where they changed stuff. Most of it just got cut. Like I said, 25 whole minutes was cut, and the opening sequence was like 15 of it. So they cut other stuff throughout to kind of like no longer reference those things. A couple places that got left in, but yeah.

Nic

Um, so, uh, so now we're with, uh, Brody, right?

Steve

Right. So then we cut to Brody and Renee, and this is Jason Lee and Shannen Doherty. And I'll say real quickly, I've never really thought of Shannen Doherty as a particularly talented actress. Like, not saying she's terrible or anything, but like, just never thought of her as great. We know, 'cause we've talked about it with Clerks, and it's still here, it gets better over the years, but Smith's dialogue can be very, a mouthful. It can be a lot for actors to do. She delivers the lines that he wrote better than anyone in this movie.

Nic

I think that's true.

Steve

She really, her cadence is good, it sounds natural when she does it. Jason Lee is close, Ben Affleck's not bad, and these are like legit talented actors, a lot of the other people. Jeremy London suffers big time. Joey Lorne Adams suffers big time for this dialogue, and even the Brandy character. Like, you know, it's tough, right? This dialogue isn't easy. Um, but Shannen Doherty really does a good job. Anyway, they wake up in, in, uh, Jason Lee's bed, in Brody's bed. Apparently he lives in the basement of his mom's house. So, you know, she has to like sneak out because he still, you know, like doesn't want to introduce her to his mom or whatever. He's afraid of his mom. And she dumps him. She, she talks about how she cries in the morning thinking about all the people doing things with their lives, and all she has time to do is fuck him. And so she throws a note at him and she climbs out the, like, that little basement window that's like that half tiny little window.

Nic

I wish I had that. Even if like the house, the room was full fully above ground. I would like the, like, the illusion of that basement window, you know?

Steve

Just put like a mound up to it so there's still ground, right? Like, have a bulldozer, just shove a big pile of dirt up there.

Nic

Uh, and Brody is playing a hockey video game, which we— I mean, hockey once again, dude.

Steve

I, I created the trope hockey on, on the website, and I've tagged every movie that has either like a person wearing a hockey jersey, someone playing hockey in real life, someone playing hockey in a video game, any reference to hockey. So this movie will be included in that.

Nic

So much more than any other sport so far.

Steve

Yeah, big time.

Nic

More than other sports put together, I would say.

Steve

I agree. Now, I think some of that is that Smith himself loves hockey, has always loved hockey. We had— we watched Strange Brew, which is like not everybody doing this podcast would've done Strange Brew in the first like 50 episodes, but we went there, right? And then there's a handful of others. I mean, you know, Happy Gilmore, you gotta do, right?

Nic

But it's like— The swingers scene.

Steve

Yeah, it's just so funny, right, how often it came up in the '90s in particular, like hockey, had a renaissance, I guess. I think it's Gretzky. I think everybody loved Gretzky.

Nic

And because you get a superstar that, that's that much better, yeah, that you just— it doesn't matter what team you root for, you can't not appreciate that guy, right?

Steve

Well, and when he moved from Edmonton— like, just set an aside— when he moved from Edmonton to Los Angeles, it brought like the height of hockey to America. Yeah, it wasn't just a Canadian team that had, you know, this amazing player, but now he was playing in LA, one of the biggest media markets in, in the States. And, you know, at the same time, there were other great players like Mario Lemieux and Mark Messier playing around the league. So it was a time when If you didn't get into hockey before that, it was a pretty good time to start watching hockey. So it does feel like there's just a lot of that in the air.

Nic

Totally, totally. And it is funny that Brody's game that he's playing, he's winning like 12 to 2, but he's still acting like, don't mess me up, you know?

Steve

Well, he says the Hartford Whale never win. So yeah, so then—.

Nic

Oh, he does. Sorry, in his room, because we got to appreciate room swag, he has like a neon light of the old Comedy Central logo, which is Dude, I would love that so much in my room.

Steve

That's a perfect, like, kind of office, den, man cave, whatever you wanna call it kind of thing. Fantastic. And it's covered. There's comic book stuff all over the place. It's also got, we should mention, that wonderful, like, '60s, '70s, '80s wood paneling all over every wall.

Nic

Oh, for sure, yeah.

Steve

Gotta go with that. So, yeah, so she leaves, and then T.S. Shows up, having come straight from Brandy's house, being dumped, basically. And, you know, they go in and hang out together, and Brody has already framed the dump letter from Renee. And, you know, T.S. Reads it, and he's like, And he says, oh, how she called you Callow. And he goes, oh, that was the one part I thought that was like, I thought that was like complimentary. He goes, it means like weak-willed or something like that. He's like, oh damn. Which is just kind of a funny thing. But so Brody's like, hey, let's go to the mall. Like, this is, that's where you get cheered up. You go to the mall. And T.S. Is like, fuck that. I'd rather commit suicide than go to the mall. Which is like a little extreme for 1995 for like an early 20-something. He's like, come on, you're not that depressed.

Nic

It's like, buddy, you didn't know how bad the mall would get. Our mall has the DMV in it.

Steve

It's true.

Nic

That's a kill yourself mall.

Steve

And only one department store. Anyway. So we get to the mall, and we get to the mall in about the 12th minute. And this is where Aldis mentioned too, in the original cut it was the 29th minute. I took a look before they even arrive at the mall, and I think that that was a good studio note for Smith.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

You have written a movie where you're calling it Mallrats and like 80% of it takes place in the mall, and we don't get there until half an hour in. Like, you can't do that to people. And I think that's legit correct, and I think that the theatrical cut is a vast improvement over the extended. Um, but yeah, so they're there They show up and they're constructing, constructing a stage in the middle of the mall. And Brody in particular is like, I'm here all the time, how did I not know this was happening?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So they go over and they talk to Willem, played by Ethan Suplee, and Willem is looking at one of those Magic Eye posters.

Nic

Classic, those were everywhere, especially this time. I mean, every, every Christmas, if you're with like aunts and uncles, you're with people who get those kind of like, I don't really love you presents for each other. So you get like a Magic Eye book or something like that. A calendar. Dude, that shit was the best. Yeah.

Steve

And it's so cool.

Nic

I mean, I can definitely relate to the people, like the frustration of not being able to see it and stuff.

Steve

Right. Were you good at those? Like, could you do those easily or no?

Nic

Not— I, I was very middling at them.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

How about you? Could you get those?

Steve

Very easily.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

And so I did this one too. So I paused it.

Nic

Oh, I didn't even think to do that.

Steve

Yeah. I paused it and I, and I relaxed my eyes the whole thing. And it is a Magic Eye poster, but it's just like geometric shapes. It's like a couple of like, like cones and pyramids and some squares. Like there's all these kinds of, they kind of, they all come out at you, so it's like they're looking up at you, but there's no schooner, there's no sailboat, etc. So yeah, but those are fun.

Nic

Yeah, so he's, he's standing there trying to, trying to see the magic guy thing. We see Ben Affleck, who's working at like a menswear store. He's wearing a fucking giant suit. He looks like the singer of a Talking Heads cover band. It's ridiculous.

Steve

And I love the like short-sleeve shirt under the jacket. It's like everything he—.

Nic

I mean, I think Ben Affleck's a great actor. He has a ton of range and stuff. Yeah, him playing this kind of bully shithead guy is so funny.

Steve

It's great. It's like so good in Dazed and Confused. Yeah, O'Banion. And then this, it's like, it's— he really leans into this kind of role.

Nic

He really does.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Um, yeah, so the game show's happening in the mall, right? Um, we see, uh, Jay and Silent Bob for the first time here. And, uh, a pet store, inside a pet store. Yeah, they're standing up from the pet store and Silent Bob is trying to like Jedi mind trick the cigarette to like come up out of his hand into his Yeah, mouth or just lift it up anyway.

Steve

He thinks he can use the Force.

Nic

Yeah, Jay says that he just saw Return of the Jedi.

Steve

Empire. He would just watch that. I think it's just not like for the first time. He just meant like dude watched Empire last night and is trying to do this.

Nic

Oh yeah, because I was like, you fucking losers hang outside of a video store all day and you haven't seen like the most popular movie of the past 3 years?

Steve

Because that movie was 15 years old at that point, so I think it threw me off a little bit. That's fair.

Nic

Um, okay, so he's all excited. He's trying to get the Jedi mind trick thing.

Steve

Exactly. Yes, exactly. He's trying— he's trying to do what Yoda taught Luke to do, right? Uh, and Jay's pissed off about it. And, uh, basically they say, hey, uh, Brody and T.S. Say, hey, we need this stage taken care of. Uh, we don't want this game show to happen today. What do you think about you guys, you know, wrecking it? And Jay's kind of like, well, we were gonna do that anyway. Why? What else are we gonna do? Like, this is kind of their thing. But they warn them and they say, but you gotta watch out for LaFours. Who's LaFours? Well, LaFours apparently is the most feared mall security guard in the world. Like 400-something callers, all of them convicted. Jay think Jay heard he even has two kills. This is like the most intimidating. And to be fair, it's a big dude.

Nic

It's a big dude. He's not that intimidating looking, but well, he's wearing fucking Lyle Lanley's hat, the monorail salesman from The Simpsons. Like, it's a crazy decision. It's funny visually because he is this big looking kind of almost like you know French or European like tan looking dude, and then has the silliest like election 1924 hat on.

Steve

It looks like a hat they would have given out for Brewster's election to New York City mayor. Like totally what it looks like.

Nic

Ah, Calvin Coolidge did it again. He has got.

Steve

You gotta be on a whistle-stop tour in order to, like, wear one of those suits. But basically Brody is like, well, I didn't realize you guys would be scared. They're like, nah, man, we'll fuck it up. And there's a funny point where Jay is sort of doing this like, snickety, snickety, snickety, snickety. And Brody has to explain to T.S., what Jay's doing is imitating Wolverine's berserker attack with his adamantium claw. Like, he says it so seriously because it's so important to him to get it right. And T.S. Is like, bro, I don't give a fuck. Like, he does not care about comics the way Brody does. Oh man, let's see.

Nic

So, uh, Brody and, uh, and TS are in this argument about Superman.

Steve

Superman.

Nic

Part we're at.

Steve

Yeah, exactly.

Nic

And the kind of conversation about like, well, you know, if Superman really is like as powerful as he is, he can't impregnate Lois Lane because he has, he has Superman semen. Yeah, that's just gonna blast right through someone like a bullet, right? It's not gonna— it's not a normal— I mean, I understand where they're coming from, I guess. I love this conversation. But this is a very detailed conversation, yeah, about— and what was the possible, like, solution to this, right?

Steve

Right, so Brody says— this is my favorite line in this whole sequence— is he says he would blow his load like a shotgun right through her back. It's so visceral and descriptive. I really appreciate it.

Nic

Very Ricky O-coded.

Steve

Right, yes, exactly. Oh, there's another movie we gotta do at some point. Oh my God, Ricky O. Okay, but yeah, but he basically says, like, you know, maybe he could impregnate Wonder Woman, right? 'Cause she herself is, like, an alien, and, like— or maybe whatever, she's an Amazon. She's supposed to be magical the way Superman is. But like a regular chick, you know, no way, unless he wore a Kryptonite condom, but that would kill him. Which I think is funny. And if— oh yeah, there's the other thing too. If Lois did get pregnant with Superman's baby and then she got a tan, the kid would kick right through her stomach because the Earth's yellow sun, right, makes you weaker. Makes you weaker. Or whatever. It's just like very funny. But yeah, and then while they're sitting there talking, they're also arguing about the food court, which I think this is a legit argument that Tia says dead wrong. Like they've got cookies, right, from the cookie stand. And T.S. Says something about like, you know, why— who thought I'd be here? And, you know, instead of having hot Floridian sex with Brandy, I'm here talking about superhero, like, emissions or whatever, you know, copulation with you at the food court. And Brody is very indignant. He goes, this is not the food court. Well, yeah, it's an eatery. The eatery's part of the food court. Brody says, no, no, no. Eateries within the designated square downstairs are the food court. Anything else is considered an autonomous unit for mid-mall snacking. It's like, there's something about Brody's conviction and, like, Dedication to his seriousness about the mall. Yeah, that I find endearing. Like I really enjoy. Like at one point he said T.S. Says something about like Brandy getting auctioned off at a mall, and and Brody's like da da da the mall. Like be be you know be respectful.

Nic

Put some respect on the mall's name.

Steve

Which is like it's silly, but I love that that character aspect.

Nic

So so Jay and Silent Bob have various schemes, right? They're trying to they're trying to knock out this security guy. As part of their thing and to destroy the stage, right? So I think— and they— I don't know if they have the blueprint, like Home Alone-style plan drawn out, or it's like animated, right?

Steve

No, no, well, they drew on it and stuff, but yeah, he said something like they got a blueprint from some, some stupid-ass carpenter who like left it around, and there's a pin. It's got a— it's got a weakness like the Death Star. Yeah, yeah, there's just like one pin that's near the top. If they can pull that, the whole thing just comes crashing down, which is like, again, how silly, right? So they've got this idea of Jay smacking LaFours in the head and then—.

Nic

With the sock full of quarters.

Steve

Bob doing that with the sock full of quarters and then Jay running up and hitting the pin, right? That's the idea. Um, but before they can try this, a kid with a wood toy truck comes up to Silent Bob, and Silent Bob kind of gives him like a— shows him his backhand like, ah, get out of here, kid. And the kid like runs away, but now the kid's mad. So as Bob is running, swinging wildly this roll of this sock full of quarters ready to hit LaFours, the kid like rolls the toy truck towards him. Bob's foot goes on it. He flies right past LaFours. I think funnily enough, handing LaFours the sock full of quarters. He now has the quarters. Good for him. Looked like about $20 worth of quarters.

Nic

I was surprised they had that much in quarters, honestly. That's like the most impressive part.

Steve

But you can see that Jay is emptying out those little rolls you get from the bank, so it's clear that they just like made change from one of the like stores or something, right? Um, but then, and then, and then Jay busts through, uh, he gets, he gets kind of thrown through the wall of one of the stores, uh, or through a door or something, and into a changing room where Joey Lauren Adams' character is like changing.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

Whatever. And that happens a couple times.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. So Silent Bob's head busts through the, uh, the middle of the fitting room. Um, and okay, so now we've got, uh, TS and Brody are talking to Tricia Jones, right?

Steve

This is the part that holds up the least in this movie.

Nic

So she is a— she is a sex author who writes about the sex that she has with different people at age 15.

Steve

Yes, she is.

Nic

And, uh, and they aren't really too concerned about that yet.

Steve

Well—.

Nic

They're just kind of like, oh, good for you. Like, what are you writing about? T.S.

Steve

Is like, holy shit, this is shocking. Like, he really is kind of like, really? This is like, are your parents like, what? How is this possible?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Brody's a little more flippant about it. It's like, yeah, she'll be the youngest author. It's an interesting story kind of thing. But yeah, she basically is like writing a book about the sex drive of men, and I quote, ages 14 to 30, which again, it's just like, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want this to be part of the movie anymore, but here it is.

Nic

They should just dub over her being like, my name is Tricia Jones. I am 18.

Steve

Except that it's like a major, It's an important plot point in the climax, so unfortunately it is built in. Now, to be fair, there is comeuppance in some way built around the idea of a 15-year-old having sex with adults, so—.

Nic

Sure, yeah.

Steve

But it's not great. So we'll kind of skip past it. She shows them like her little notes she's taking or whatever, and it's all that. And then they find— oh, they do find an important fact here, which is that the night previously she had been with Shannon Hamilton, Ben Affleck's character, the proprietor of Fashionable Male. Though they refer to him as proprietor and manager in different, you know, which is like, to be a proprietor of a mall store is like pretty— Yeah, I don't think— Why would you be there?

Nic

Right, right.

Steve

Anyway, point being, they find out that Shannon, who is like 24—.

Nic

He's Shannon Stormer from Men's Warehouse.

Steve

Exactly, he's like 24, 25, had sex with Tricia, who's 15, and they now know that. It's an important piece of information. But she tells Brody, good luck at the comic shop, and he's like, what's that all about? And so they go looking 'cause he wants to go get his comics, and there's a huge line at the comic book store in the mall, and Brody's like, what the hell is going on? Why is there a line? All this stuff. And he starts like attacking, you know, he kind of, he comes up yelling at these 2 guys, Walt and Steve Dave. And they basically are like, you know, hey, we were told about you. Like, I'm gonna call security, whatever. And he's like, you know, fuck you, man. Just 'cause a guy likes comics, I won't fuck you up. Like, they're starting a fight basically. The guy whose apparently name is Steve Dave, which is a great name, I guess, blows a whistle and the mall cop was standing right next to them already 'cause he just reaches over for Brody as soon as the whistle gets blown. But basically they shake it out of another customer. Like, what's going on? Stan Lee is here. Signing comics, which is a huge deal. Like the idea that Brody wouldn't know about this does seem a little odd. It's one thing to not know about the like stage and like maybe there was like a thing where the but like at his comic store they would have been advertising that.

Nic

Yeah, that he's coming. Yeah, yeah.

Steve

You know what I mean? So that's a little you know strange credulity. But then again, who gives a shit? It's just it's a silly movie. But yeah, so that now now Brody is upset that he let this fact slip by him. He didn't know Stanley was coming. Now he knows he's there, but he's like super upset because he's not. In line to get the autograph. I don't know, whatever. He's pissed.

Nic

Yeah. So, um, yeah, so he's, he's gotta find a way in there. Uh, we're back to Jay and Silent Bob now who are doing their next attempt to foil the, uh, security guard.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

And this one is Silent Bob is like hooked to some kind of cables. Yep.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he's swinging, supposed to like swing in and like grab the pin and grab the pin, right?

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Uh, but instead it's off by a little bit, right? So he swings and he just knocks the hat off the security guard barely. Does not get the pin.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. But flies through another wall, right back into a changing room where Joey Lauren Adams' character is yet again— Gwen, I think is her name— is yet again changing her clothes. And now he's busted in on her twice. And so she's like, what the fuck? Like, you know, which is kind of funny. But yeah, and then, so then the next sequence is we see we're at the food court, the actual food court that they were arguing about, and Jay and Salvo are like running through and they kind of hide behind T.S. And Brody. And then LaFors runs by, so they're safe for the moment. And there's this funny moment here. I remember in the DVD commentary that Kevin Smith mentioned this was the most interesting edit he'd ever seen on any of his movies. In this scene where T.S. And Brodie are sitting at this table, there is a cup on the table in front of T.S. That's like a Coca-Cola, you know, fountain cup, right?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So apparently, I can't remember which network it was. I'm gonna say ABC, but I might— it's one of the major networks, right? But when the edit was done, and this is done outside the authority of the director, when an edit is done for television, right? So they're cutting all kinds of content. They're doing it for time. They're doing it for cost. Content, you know, restrictions or whatever, they recropped this scene so that you could see Jason Lee and Jeremy London, but you could not see that cup because ABC had some kind of partnership deal with Pepsi.

Nic

Oh, funny.

Steve

And they didn't want the Coke cup to be part of the scene. He's like, that's like the dumbest reason I've ever seen anything edited for any of my movies. And this is a guy who lives on strictly dick and fart jokes. So his, you know, the edits of his movies are like extreme.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

Right, they're constantly cutting stuff out. And he's like, why did they have to crop out the Coke cup?

Nic

That's ridiculous. Once you learn though about like product placement and all this stuff in movies, it does ruin movies to a degree for you because you're thinking about like, oh, every can is turned backwards except for that one can. This movie must be sponsored by Mountain Dew Code Red. You know, it's, uh, that's, that's a funny, uh, edit there.

Steve

But yeah, it's pretty, pretty wild. So, uh, yeah. And while they're there, they see, uh, Shannon and Renee, Brody's now ex-girlfriend, standing there.

Nic

It's confusing that Shannon is Ben Affleck and Shannen Doherty is the—.

Steve

There's a, there's a couple of things. There's, there's another one too. There's, oh, there's, uh, There's Renee, is Shannon Doherty's character's name, and then there's another person in this cast named Renee, and now I can't remember who it is. But it's like, yeah, there's several. I think the woman who— the woman who plays Tricia Jones, like, her real name is Renee.

Nic

Oh, okay.

Steve

Several places where there's like, for whatever reason, the character names are like matching.

Nic

Must have been crazy, right? Yeah. Shannon, do this.

Steve

What? Brenda?

Nic

Yeah. So she's with— she's with Affleck, who's like— that's a worst-case scenario. I mean, you get broken up with and then And she's with like the most irritating, like repellent person you can think of.

Steve

Who hates Brody. Like, this guy has mentioned like, I hate people with like no shopping agenda. You come here and hang out at the mall, you fucking mall rat. Like, you know, all that kind of stuff. So he hates that. Um, so, uh, Brody decides he needs to confront Renee about this. So Renee and Shannon are standing at the, uh, elevator doors, you know, they're like on his lunch break, like whatever, hanging out. And so So, TS goes up because Shannon doesn't know TS. So TS goes up to Shannon, he's like, oh, hey, uh, you're that professional male, I really like that, whatever. He goes, yeah, could you leave me alone? I'm with like my lady friend here for lunch, just get out of here, you know? And he's like, oh, is that your girlfriend? Oh, she's hot, whatever. And like Shannon turns to TS and is like yelling at him now. As the elevator doors open, Brody runs, like grabs Renee, and they both go into the elevator before Shannon can realize it.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Now in the elevator, you know, they're just arguing about why are you with this guy? He's ridiculous. He's like, he's a walking hard-on. And she's kind of like, I could use that after like your shitty, like, libido and terrible sex skills or whatever. So to prove himself worthy, they have sex right there in the elevator. Uh, and after it's done, she tells him it was too little, too late. And he goes, too little? You said it was a good size.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

It's like, the effort, you idiot. She used the R-slur, which I won't repeat. But yeah. Uh, yeah. Anyway, so that, that's their moment of reconnection, Brody thinks. And Renee is still like, no, you idiot. Like, good try. That was fun, but fuck off. Yeah.

Nic

Yeah. Uh, and then she's right back with, with Affleck after that.

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

Smooth drop-off there.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Um, let's see. So, uh, so Brandy's dad— are we at this part now where TS goes to kind of confront—.

Steve

Yeah, there's a brief, there's a brief moment where Gwen, Joey Lauren Adams' character, shows up and, uh, TS doesn't— she, she like reaches onto TS's shoulder. He doesn't know that, that, you know, he's surprised. He ends up elbowing her in the tit. She punches him in the balls. Like, whatever, it's this whole thing. But it's like that she's the one who says that that Brandy and her dad were there at the stage. Uh, and so, uh, TS is gonna go talk to Mr. Svenning, uh, at the stage. So yeah, uh, but before he can, there's this, uh, stagehand also played by Walt Flanagan, who was the, the fan in front of the comic shop who said, get him, Steve Dave, the guy, you know.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

That's Walt Flanagan, Kevin Smith's friend. He plays 2 roles. He's also this stagehand who like moves the podium and like ends up getting fired. It's like a whole thing. It's sort of establishing Like okay, Svenning played by Michael Rooker. He's an asshole. Like let's not you know what I mean?

Nic

Like right.

Steve

Don't like this guy. Actually, real quick, there's a funny thing too about they wanted William Atherton for that role, right?

Nic

Okay.

Steve

Would have been good as well.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

And Atherton through his agent would have responded like I'm not gonna do like a silly movie like this. Like I do serious movies. And they were kind of yes, that's why we want you. You know, it's like it's meant to be a juxtaposition. He's like no, I'm not gonna do it. What did Atherton do the next movie he did after he turned down Mallrats? Biodome.

Nic

Oh, that's so fucking funny.

Steve

Like, bro, you would have been better off in Mallrats than in Bio-Dome. But Rooker's great.

Nic

I like Rooker. Um, he, he's one of the best, like, immediate assholes in film. Like, he has a face and just a demeanor where you're like, that's a fucking bad dude.

Steve

I'm like, I hate this guy.

Nic

Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's a good shortcut to like, we don't need a lot of exposition about this guy. Let's just show his fucking face and you know that that's the guy we're rooting against.

Steve

Yeah. And another, and another example, frankly, of somebody who doesn't stumble over Smith's dialogue Very much.

Nic

He's a real actor.

Steve

Yeah, he really, really kind of crushes it. So, so there is— which I guess my point being is there is an element of Smith's dialogue that like requires the actor to be of a certain caliber. And in Clerks and in half of this movie, he just didn't have actors that could do that, you know what I mean? There's that. So, um, but anyway, so now basically, uh, let's see, Svenning is talking to TS just about like, you'll never be with my daughter. Ever again. Like, whatever, she's too good for you, right? Like, get out of here, basically.

Nic

So, um, so, uh, so I think Affleck, uh, Shannon gets word that Brody— or does he know that Brody had slept with the girl in the elevator? He just wants to beat him up anyway for being annoying.

Steve

It's, it's that— it's more just the, the— he's there, he's irritating. He knows it was, it was something like when they left the elevator, Shannon saw Brody run out But Renee stopped him from, like— and he doesn't know that they fucked, but she's just like, he had to give me something he forgot to give me a while ago, or whatever, right? It's over. But he knows that he was there, and he's, like, interacting with her still. And so, uh, there's, yeah, this point where he, like, corners him, like, at the candy shop, or whatever, grabs him or something like that, and, like, takes him into, like, one of those hallways.

Nic

It's like the T2 hallway. I love a back mall hallway. It just makes me think of T2.

Steve

Did you ever work at a mall? Like a big mall?

Nic

I never worked at the mall, no.

Steve

I worked at Stone Ridge for a couple years.

Nic

Oh, nice.

Steve

One of the stores there. And so, like, that was, like, how we went to take our breaks, was, like, through stores. Or like that, or if you had to take the trash out the back of your— you didn't want to walk with trash, like, through where all the customers are. So that's those little back alley hallways.

Nic

It's where the unclean stuff happens.

Steve

Yeah, it's all the nasty shit behind the scenes. But basically, like, he beats his ass. Shannon beats Brody's ass, punches him a few times. There's a couple of brutal hits in here. Good on Affleck and Lee. It's a really well-done sort of, like, physical altercation. And this is when Shannon admits to Brody that he's not only gonna have sex with his girlfriend or ex-girlfriend or whatever, but he's gonna do it in a very uncomfortable place. And Brody says, what, like the back of a Volkswagen? No, like in a place that girls to, like, have sex in, kind of, you know, an orifice or whatever. And so he's like, he's gonna fuck her in the ass, basically. Um, but this— what, like the back of a Volkswagen shows up, like, numerous times as, like, a callback. Um, it also— this, this cut ends— the scene ends on, like, on a connection of, of, of Shannon punching Brody in the face that is kind of brutal, you know? It's like, to cut away on that, it's like, oh my God, it's very jarring.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Uh, but yeah, Brody gets his ass beat.

Nic

And then he won't tell Jay and Silent Bob. They're like, hey, what? Who did this to you, man? We got your back.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

And he, he won't tell them. He said, uh, Easter Bunny beat me up, which is interesting.

Steve

I don't quite know why, right?

Nic

Because they would know. Because if he was like, oh, it's Shannon from, you know, fashionable male, they'd be like, oh yeah, fuck that guy. We figured it was him.

Steve

Um, yeah, I'm not sure if he's like embarrassed or if he doesn't want anybody to know that he's still interested in Renee. I think that's part of the thing is that he's putting out a face that he has no interest in Renee anymore, right? If that's to be true, then why would Shannon have a reason to punch him? I think that's what he's trying to defend his little story. Yeah, about being over his girlfriend is probably why, but it's a little weak. But he does tell— he He says something about like, oh, I told the Easter Bunny that the Easter Bunny at this other mall was like way better and he beat my ass. So then Jane saw Bob go and beat the fuck out of the Easter Bunny. Yeah, which is very funny because then the kids who are waiting for the Easter Bunny all like try to tackle Jane's son Bob to save the Easter Bunny. It's, it's kind of a funny little sequence, but yeah, they whoop his ass.

Nic

Uh, let's see here. Uh, now Brody is, uh, he's describing a, uh, a technique to kind of get— yes, get revenge on somebody or to, uh, you know, yeah, make somebody's day very unpleasant without them knowing.

Steve

Yeah, basically TS and Brody are hanging out for a minute and, uh, this producer assistant guy of Svenning's, played by Scott Mosier, the, the producer for most of Smith's movies, uh, shows up and is like, Mr. Svenning wants to talk to you, you know, kind of thing. And, and, you know, TS is like, fine, tell him I'll be there in a minute. And Brody's like, hey, you want to get— you want to really fuck with this guy, you stink palm him. He's like, what's that? Well, you put your hand you know, that you shake hands with, like down in between your butt cheeks. You know, you've been walking, you've been nervous all day, you're walking around all day, you're probably sweaty and gross down there. Now when you shake his hand, he's gonna have that smell on your hand, on his hand. How's he gonna explain that to his colleagues and his, you know, family and whatever? Even people think he doesn't know how to wipe his ass. And T.S. Points out, yes, and you yourself now have a shit-smelling hand for just as long as your victim does, right? And he's like, well, small price to pay for the smiting of one's enemies.

Nic

Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like slowly building up an immunity to the poison over the years, right?

Steve

But he's also eating chocolate-covered pretzels that have been established to be melty, right? Uh, TS picks one because, oh, these are too melty, or whatever. Um, so yeah, then when, uh—.

Nic

Wait, does, uh, does Brody say, uh, to TS that— or, uh, TS says to Brody that you slimed your way into her panties?

Steve

Oh, that's what Svenning says to TS. So TS goes to confront Mr. Svenning. Okay. I no doubt, you know, I believe no doubt you slimed your way into her panties.

Nic

I just wrote that quote down. I was like, that is fucking gross. It's so much worse that it's a dad saying that about his daughter. Good Lord.

Steve

It's horrific.

Nic

Intentionally so, but it certainly Um, so we get kind of a long scene where, uh, Brody goes and he shakes hands with Mr. Spanning. We're like, oh no, he touched him with the butt hand.

Steve

Yeah, yeah.

Nic

And then he's reaching into the pretzels and he's licking the chocolate off his fingers and everything. And it's gross. I mean, butt crack aside, like, that's fucking gross.

Steve

It looks disgusting just as food. Yeah, yeah.

Nic

Um, so, you know, and then, and then Mr. Spanning's like, ah, I'll have you idiots kicked out of the mall. So they get like cuffed, and there's such a— it's like a commando-level, uh, mall force here, the number of like armed officers that are able to escort them out.

Steve

It's like because there's this TV show— public access, by the way— TV show filming in the mall today, there's like, you know, a Delta Force of rent-a-cops, right, that are all led by, you know, Major Dutch— I mean, LaFours, right? Like going off into the jungle. But yeah, but they get kicked out, they get booted. And, and then there's a couple references in this area to the opening. I'll just mention real quick, the TV executives talking to Svenning about Things going well, mention, if you have any trouble like you did at the governor's ball, this will be a terrible thing.

Nic

Oh, okay.

Steve

So that's a reference to that. But it stayed in, I think, partly, again, because they didn't want to get those actors back to redo that scene. And they— you know, it sounds like it could be further in his past. It doesn't sound like it has to be just now. But there's also a reference to when Svenning says to Brody, if it isn't my neighbor. That's not real. At one point in the cut stuff, Brody shows up to Svenning's house with TS to confront him Brandy, and there's like press there because of the governor's mansion thing or the governor's ball thing and all this stuff. And, and Brody introduces himself as Mr. Svenning's neighbor, but he's not. Like, he doesn't— it's a weird thing. Okay, it stayed in somehow. And it's like, why would those two be neighbors? Like, we saw Brody's house, it's very unassuming, and we can assume that Mr. Svenning—.

Nic

Yeah, they have like a fancy house.

Steve

Yeah, when T.S. Pulls up. So it didn't quite fit, and that's why it's a remnant.

Nic

And you don't pull up the loaded station wagon one house over to pick somebody up for your vacation.

Steve

Exactly. Yeah, so it's a little strange. Yeah. And then you have—.

Nic

Right, then T.S.

Steve

Would have driven Yeah. From, from Brandy's. No, exactly. So, so that doesn't fit, but that's, that's a, that's a remnant. Uh, yeah, the, the pretzels are disgusting. Disgusting for sure. Jay and Silent Bob are hanging out with Willem at the Magic Eye, basically giving him shit for not being able to do it. And Renee is the one that runs up to Jay and Silent Bob and is like, hey, T.S. And Brody need your help.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Right? And then she looks and goes, oh, a schooner. And Willem turns and goes, Brenda? And she's like, dick, and like runs off, which probably not necessary, but I enjoy it. I enjoy that they gave Shannon a little ribbing there.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Well, hey, another, uh, 90210 alum. We've seen recently Luke Perry in The Fifth Element, Jason Priestley in Tombstone. So who does that leave? Ian Ziering, we're coming for you, man.

Steve

Ian Ziering might be a little tough because he did a lot of the Sharknado stuff.

Nic

He's more of a Sharknado guy.

Steve

But there's gotta be a Jenny Garth. Oh, but we've had, uh, uh, what's her face as well? Tori Spelling was in Troop Beverly Hills.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

So we've got 4 out of, you know, 7 of the major ones. We need Brian Austin Green.

Nic

That's true.

Steve

Jenny Garth.

Nic

Uh, we'll get Tiffany Amber Thiessen with the son-in-law at some point. You know, she's a later addition.

Steve

Oh no, she is in that. You're right. She's the other girl. That's right. Oh, I forgot.

Nic

Very cool. Trust me, I just watched this two days ago. So so Jay and Silent Bob. Yeah. So they're like, "All right, we gotta get our guys back." Yep. Snoochie boochies. That's the thing that Jay says a lot.

Steve

It's just it's like a catchphrase. Oh boy! But he does. I do like that he brains LaFors with an aluminum baseball bat, which can do real damage. Yeah. And then he yells, "Come, son of Jor-El! Kneel before Zod!" Because that's Superman two, I think, or two or three. But yeah, anyway, it's a Superman reference for sure. But basically they distract the cops enough, they chase after Jay and Silent Bob. Jay and Silent Bob, uh, this will earn this movie the asshole cops tag as well because these guys try to frame Brody and T.S. With like a bag of pot they claim they found on them. Uh, so that sucks. But basically T.S. And Brody are like, we gotta get out of here. And Brody's like, let's go to the dirt mall, we'll hide out there, nobody will come looking for us. The dirt mall is sort of like a flea market looking—.

Nic

Yeah, very much like, uh, one of those indoor flea market things with all these different booths set up and stuff. It's a good contrast to this real mall.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Uh, I think right before this though, did we have Jay and Silent Bob escaping the security guards? And Silent Bob has like a Batman grappling hook, and he had all this different shit, so he was going through like, what am I gonna use here? Uh, and then he ends up getting them up, and they basically hide.

Steve

Yeah, up in the air. And, and Jay quotes Jack Nicholson, right? You know, where did you get these wonderful toys? Yeah, yeah.

Nic

I was hoping he'd say, uh, I think you weigh a little more than 108 pounds.

Steve

Um, That would have been a deeper reference. I like that. You're right.

Nic

So, uh, so when they're at this, the dirt mall, I mean, one of the things is that, uh, he's picking up like random merchandise from this thrift store thing and there's a Clerks hat.

Steve

Yeah. Whoa.

Nic

Wow.

Steve

How crazy that that event is occurring like within the adjacent 48 hours just across town. Right.

Nic

You've already made hats for this thing.

Steve

Exactly. But they're there really to get their fortune told. So there is Ivana. The topless psychic played by oh darn it I forget the actress's name now but she is the she was like the replacement for Suzanne Somers on Three's Company. Yeah, Terry I think.

Nic

Yeah, Three's Company.

Steve

Yeah, she was she was there in the latter seasons of Three's Company. Priscilla Barnes that's her name. Priscilla Barnes. You know she's in her early forties in this movie and she looks great. Oh she looks fantastic. Fantastic.

Nic

I mean that's a bold like lengthy very exposed nude scene right?

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

Yeah. And yeah I mean she she. Looks great. I, I'm willing to overlook the, the flaw that they see there, right? So the, so the, the gag is that, you know, she has 3 nipples and that's what gives her mystical powers or whatever.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

And, uh, and then, you know, she tells them their fortune and then she takes the 3rd nipple off when they leave and pops it in her mouth, which I don't—.

Steve

Definitely don't understand. I don't know if that was just the actress.

Nic

It's not a pepperoni, it's not a gummy.

Steve

Yeah, it's just something to kind of gnaw But, but the funny part about it is that, you know, T.S. Doesn't want to do this. Brody is all for it. He's like, ah, let's see some titties and get our fortunes told. And T.S. Is like, I don't want— I want my girlfriend back. Like, I don't want this. And, uh, so they go through this, and then when the shirt actually comes off and the third nipple is exposed along with the other 2 real nipples, um, Brody cannot stop. He is disgusted by this third nipple, freaking out about it, while T.S. Hasn't even looked down, apparently is staring this woman in the eyes and listening to her fortune being told and being very inspired.

Nic

Right.

Steve

About what to do next. And, and Brody meanwhile is freaking out. Out. It's a funny scene. She looks great. You know, it's hard to argue with, uh, the, the artistic merit, uh, of this scene. But, uh, but yeah, they basically decide they need to go back. Like, like, T.S., I need to go back. I need to talk to Brandy. I need to, like, make this right. So this is sort of, like, driving us into the 3rd act of the, of the movie here.

Nic

And we're, and we're back at the mall here.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

Uh, and Brody is like, he's like looking in the window of the lingerie shop or something, and Stan Lee walks up behind him. So he has a conversation with Stan Lee.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

Uh, which is funny because he's immediately launching into, like, giving advice about life And he's not just like, hey, well, glad you're a fan of my comic book. Like, he's, uh, really engaging there.

Steve

Yeah. And, uh, and they talk about— he talks about how, like, he, he dated a lot of women, has been with a lot of women. He goes, oh, really? A lot? He goes, oh yeah, for a while me and Jagger had a, had a contest going. Last I checked, I'm way ahead, which I think is very funny. Um, but basically he tells him how, you know, all the things that he did in his life, all the comics or whatever, like, he, he's more worried about the one that got away. He did— he should have— when he recognized that someone he wanted to stay with. Like, he wishes he'd kept her, basically. It's kind of— it's like regrets, right? And we then see, as Stan walks away from Brody, TS is like hiding around the corner, and they talk. And TS put Stan up to it and thanks him, like, thanks for talking to him, like, he really needed to hear that. So that's why he like stuck around through the conversation.

Nic

He was like, oh, I gave him the old one that got away speech.

Steve

Yeah, exactly. Which apparently was specifically from one of the old Spider-Man comics, like the Vulture gave the speech or something. Like, he basically tells TS, like, I pulled it from the comics, but it's fine. And he says, you might want to get your friend looked at, you know, or talk to him. He seems obsessed with you. With comic book superhero, like, genitals, because he was asking about if the Thing's dork is made of rock or whatever, all this stuff. So, um, but yeah, then, uh, so now the point is there's no— there's no stopping the show, right?

Nic

Right.

Steve

Janson are not going to try to destroy the stage anymore. But, but now TS and Brody are back. Svenning is under the impression that they've been arrested and are fully in jail, right?

Nic

Right.

Steve

Just gone. And he is sick.

Nic

Svenning is sick. He's puking.

Steve

He's got a birth bag. And he's barfing into his barf bag and like all this stuff because of the stink bomb, we're assuming, right? He licked his hands all over after it was— anyway, gross-ass shit. And he— and, uh, the executives are there kind of like, whoa, dude, like, should you go home? And he goes, no, no, no, I'm not gonna miss this, whatever, right? So now Jay is supposed to get rid of the 3 contestants, and he meet— he finds 2 of them behind the stage, one with hair longer than Anthony Kiedis, this guy with crazy long hair. But basically Jay smokes them out and they pass out.

Nic

So apparently— Right.

Steve

Whatever weed he had, which I don't believe that there's any weed this good in 1995 in New Jersey. I just don't buy it. This is not— it's not California kind bud, you know what I mean?

Nic

Like, yeah, um, yeah, definitely, definitely enhanced, uh, effects there. But yeah, they get the munchies and yeah, they're all— and they're done now, right?

Steve

So Jay has knocked out 2 of the 3 contestants, and so TS and Brody show up and they're like, wait, where's the 3rd guy? There's supposed to be 3. He goes, I don't know, there were 2 guys back here. In walks Brian O'Halloran, the actor, playing Gil Hicks, right? Dante Hicks's twin brother.

Nic

Fresh off a rooftop hockey game and a funeral.

Steve

Dante Hicks's twin brother.

Nic

Oh, okay, I didn't even notice the last name thing.

Steve

Different first name. So, so, so yes, reference, you know, yes, related, but a different person. Also in college, you know, in college, whereas like Dante was like a community college, Gil apparently is like at Rutgers or something, right? They say so. It's like Dante's more accomplished older brother, or I mean twin brother. Anyway, so he's the last real contestant left, but now T.S. And Brody are gonna take the stage along with Gil in order to, like, do the whole show.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

And so, basically, they start this show, and it works just like The Dating Game. The 3 men are behind, you know, kind of on one side of the stage with a divider between them, and where Brandi comes out to sit and, like, whatever, and then there's a host. And so they start asking— they have the suitorette and the suitor number 1, suitor number 2, and suitor number 3. Brody asks if he can be called the second suitor, 'cause suitor number 2 sounds like a dick. Because he's a child. Anyway, the answers that T.S. And Brody give are like clearly very personal, related specifically to this being Brandy or to them. Like, they're not good at hiding their stuff. But then when Gil is asked a question—.

Nic

They're not doing voices or anything.

Steve

No, they're just talking. And it's very unbelievable that she wouldn't immediately recognize T.S.'s voice, at least, if they've been dating this long. But when they get to Gil, to the 3rd story, she asks him a question about like, you know, what would our first date be like? And he gives the most stupid, ridiculous answer. Answer of like doing this, going to a fancy restaurant, going here, and then going to the beach to dance all night until the sun comes up.

Nic

Like 19 hours.

Steve

Fuck all of that, dude. And Brody calls him out like, that's such a load of shit. Like you're the kind of guy who'd beg for sex, like kind of thing. But I thought that was funny. And they gave like fake names, T.S. And Brody. I think Doug is what Brody said his name was. Or no, no, that's right. There was the host called them that because those are the original guys' names.

Nic

Okay. They were just going by the original.

Steve

They were going by the original guys' names. Makes sense. But yeah, because there's one point I just know that Jason Jay yells out, do it, dog! Like, very funny. Um, but yeah, so they're on the show and they're just sort of like, you know, answering these questions. Uh, eventually Brandy is kind of figuring it out. There's a very long answer that Brody gives about, uh, masturbating in public, and his cousin Walter did it on a plane once because the plane was going down.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So he like whips it out, starts jerking, and then a bunch of other passengers do too. Then the plane like rights itself. Everything's okay. Everybody puts it, you know, stops doing what they're doing. Nobody talks about it. And you know, they never never mentioned it again. Plane lands and everybody goes on their way. And Gil is like, "So did he come or what?" He goes, "Jesus Christ, man! There are just some things you don't talk about in public." And the the TV executives love Brody.

Nic

They're like, "Oh, we're gonna make this guy Deadpool someday. He's really firing off a lot of shit." Who's the fire?

Steve

Funny guy. He's a funny guy over there. Who's that? Like, and, uh, yeah. And then it was like at one point they used the term making whoopee, which was common, right?

Nic

That's such a dating show. It really is.

Steve

Yeah, Newlywed Game, like that kind of stuff. Oh yeah. And then, but Brody's though, what does that mean? What, like fucking? And they're like, oh, like this is public, you can't say that on public access.

Nic

Like, oh man. So, uh, so TS is able to talk to her finally and, you know, profess his proposes.

Steve

Right. So what, what we should mention is that in the meantime, sort of in the background, the one— the one of the ways Jay and Silent Bob are trying to help is that— is that Jay has been tasked with getting the tape from Tricia. Or no, Tricia is bringing it to Jay. It's a tape of— because she films all of her research, all of her sex for her research. When she had sex with Shannon Hamilton the night before, she has a tape of it. And so she brings that to Jay because they're going to play this child pornography ostensibly in front of a bunch of people in public. Yeah. In order to get Shannon arrested. Um, which does happen eventually. Shannon starts coming up to like beat Brodie up because he's professing his love for Renee out in the crowd. And, and, you know, he's like, no, Silent Bob, not— and so Silent Bob can't reach the tape. It's like just out of reach. And he's trying to use the Jedi mind trick and he can't do it. And then Willem comes over so pissed off about not seeing the fucking Magic Eye thing that he like hits part of the stage, which I guess just like pops the tape up.

Nic

Yeah, like bumps it up.

Steve

Doesn't fully explain it.

Nic

Pops it into his hand a little bit.

Steve

So he thinks he is a Jedi in Silent Bob. You know, but they play the tape, the cops see it, Brody points out and goes, that girl's 15. And he goes, oh, 15? She told me she was 28 or something. I was just like, bro, like, that's not even close. Like, you know, uh, and so they arrest him, uh, and then the— I love Brody. He's like, can I punch this guy? And the cop's like, you can't strike a prisoner in police custody. And he goes, come on, just once. Oh, okay. And they let him punch him, which I love that. But basically, yeah, like, uh, uh, the TV execs love Brody. Brody and Renee get back together.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

T.S. Proposes to Brandy. She says yes. Which makes Svenning throw up into his bag some more because now TS is going to be his son-in-law.

Nic

I'm surprised he had anything left in his stomach.

Steve

Yeah, you'd think. Or maybe, maybe he had a huge breakfast.

Nic

Yeah, he had a lot of those pretzels.

Steve

Exactly. And he was still eating them. That was the thing, he stole them from Brody when they got arrested and was continuing to eat. He probably finished the bag. Just horrific. Um, and so yeah, this is, this is kind of the end here. And then we get one of those like, um, sort of end of— oh yeah, Svenning, uh, is— the TV executive's like, dude, your show sucks. This game show is derivative and crappy. But this guy You ever wanted to do a late-night talk show? Like, that's a thing they just like offer to people, right? He goes, yeah.

Nic

And on public access, right?

Steve

No, no, this— no, no, these are networks. These are real.

Nic

Okay, so they're seeing if they want to bring his show to the big time or whatever.

Steve

That's the idea. Okay, Spinning's trying to sell the show to the networks as a show to be put on, and they instead say, fuck that, but we're gonna put you, random person we just met, on The Tonight Show. Yeah, you're gonna take over for Johnny Carson. Let that sink in for a minute. Jesus Christ.

Nic

But he does.

Steve

Yeah, he does. We get one of those little like post-credits sort of like what happened.

Nic

Yeah, Animal House style.

Steve

Stand By Me, right? Yeah, Sandlot. All those movies kind of do this kind of thing. And, uh, and so yeah, it's like basically like Brody, uh, hosts The Tonight Show. Renee is his band leader. Apparently she can play drums. Yeah, sort of. Um, TS and Brandy get married at like on the little like boat that shakes during during the Jaws portion of the Universal tour. Like, they're literally standing on that boat getting married. It's cute. And then there's a— what's playing is the song Suzanne by Weezer. And then there's this orangutan that says, and then Suzanne and Jay and Silent Bob will return. And it's like, that's so weird. But that is literally one of the major plot points of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, which comes out in 2001. Not the next movie, not the one after that, but in 3 movies, they refer back to this orangutan and Jay and Silent Bob and the monkey's name is Suzanne. It's not a monkey, it's an ape, but they keep calling it a monkey. Like, there's all this stuff that's like a major element of that movie's plot, uh, that I don't know what came first, if he already had that plot idea in mind. Yeah. Or if he just wanted to do something stupid and random at the end of this movie and then 3 movies later went, I'll just build around that. Like, yeah, you know, I'm not sure which of those is true, but yeah, that is, that is Mallrats.

Nic

That is Mallrats.

Steve

Um, so I'll go ahead and give my rating first, obviously, as I picked this one. And, and look, I, I know what this movie is and I know what this movie isn't, and one of the things this movie is, is one of my favorite movies of all time. It has its weaknesses, it has its foibles and its faults. But look, I love this movie. I think this movie's worth seeing no matter who you are. If you've seen it before, see it recently. If you haven't seen it recently, see it again. If you've never seen it, I think it's worth watching for everybody that likes this sort of like mid-'90s malaise, these sort of slacker hangout comedy style things. If you're into other Kevin Smith stuff, if you're into Richard Linklater stuff, this is worth watching in my opinion. I am a 4.5 out of 5 on Mallrats, and I'm expecting to be maybe the furthest apart we've ever been on scores, but we'll see. What did you think?

Nic

We might be. I don't know. We might be. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I had similar issues with Clerks, right? And, and we talked about it, like, you, you know, brought it up before, is that Kevin Smith's dialogue is beyond the scope of these actors' abilities sometimes.

Steve

Yes.

Nic

But like, the problem with writing dialogue in a way that nobody speaks in real life is that it sounds shitty if the actors can't deliver it. And making a movie is a collaborative effort between—.

Steve

100%.

Nic

The script and the actors and stuff. And I feel like there could have been some tweaks, or like, was it so important that Jeremy London's character talks just like that, that you couldn't fucking slow it down for him a little bit? And it, and it kind of drove me nuts. Like, during this movie, I was kind of like Ethan Suplee staring at the magic guy, like, I don't know what you fucking people are seeing here. I don't get this at all. All. And, and I love you, and I, and I know that there's a lot of people who really love, um, Kevin Smith movies, and it's just, it's just not my shit. And I like this one less than Clerks because of— because of— they had more budget, they had more to do. Um, snooty booties I can't stand. Uh, Jeannie told me about halfway through this movie, she like grabbed my leg and she She said, for your health, you're not allowed to watch any Kevin Smith movies for a while. Like, I was getting too upset at some shit.

Steve

We'll push Chasing Amy and Dogma further down the road. It's okay.

Nic

I don't know. It's a good discussion.

Steve

I don't, I don't care.

Nic

I'll watch, I'll watch whatever. And yeah, it was weird that the climax of the movie was that they showed child porn to a bunch of people. No, that's rough. This was an interesting movie because it didn't have credits at the end. It just had a list of people who should be ashamed of themselves.

Steve

Uh, I saw that too.

Nic

That was, that was weird. Um, so yeah, I mean, it just— this did not hit for me. Um, Mallrats for me, and I hate to do it, but I have to be fair to what my experience was when I was watching it, this is a 1 out of 5 for me. Okay, I did not like this at all.

Steve

Okay, so that brings us to a 5.5 out of 10 on Mallrats, and for sure the biggest gap we've ever had. That is 3.5 points. Yeah, between us the furthest gap we've ever had before was 2.5. There was a few movies we were 2.5 apart. Uh, Last Starfighter, we were 2.5 apart. Thief, we were 2.5 apart. A couple others. But like, this is by far the biggest gap at 3.5. But hey, man, that's how the cookie crumbles.

Nic

That's, that's what happens.

Steve

And you notice, I mean, we get to 5.5 with like a super fan and somebody who hated it, and where'd we end up? Kind of right where the public is.

Nic

Totally. And that a lot of ours that are 5.5s are not each of us giving like a 2.5 and a 3. It's like, yeah, I mean, uh, representative of like the different types and And I think if I had, like, had more experience with this and, like, quoting it with friends, like, that enriches a movie so much. Like, if you have that younger life experience of it.

Steve

I looked— on 2 different Halloweens in college, I dressed up as Silent Bob. That was my character and my costume, whatever. And I, like, wouldn't talk to people. Literally, people would come up to me and ask me, where's Jay? Because they'd rec— I made a good Silent Bob. I had the beard, I had a wig, I had the movies hat, the big jacket, the whole deal, buttons and whatever. I looked good. Yeah. And they would ask me, where's Jay?

Nic

And I would point to the TV and be like, I'm Jay.

Steve

Pantomime smoking a joint and like going to sleep. And I was just saying, and then shrugging, you know? And they all, they thought it was the funniest shit in the world. I was like the funniest asshole in the Chico streets.

Nic

That's awesome.

Steve

During Halloween those years. So yeah, this is, this is a filmmaker and a set of movies that I am well aware that I love more than a lot of people do. And they're incredibly divisive. I really think these are movies people either love or hate. That's sort of a cliché, but I don't know that many people that are in the middle on this.

Nic

Yeah, for sure.

Steve

Because it—.

Nic

Yeah, it grabs you or it doesn't. It grabs you or it irritates you.

Steve

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Nic

Just like the characters. I mean, Bodhi is a guy in real life you'd be like, this is the funniest motherfucker I've ever met, or you'd be like, fuck that guy, I can't stand that guy, right?

Steve

100%. Yeah. Okay, so we are going from, uh, a movie— obviously very divisive movie that is responsible for numerous schisms in culture— this movie Mallrats— to a movie that's only going to bring us together. Nic, what's next?

Nic

Yeah, it's only going to bring us together. Um, Um, we watched Mallrats and we saw that, uh, with Joey Lauren Adams, it's cool to have a woman with a very annoying voice who's willing to show her titties in a movie. And I want to keep that through line going.

Steve

It's a good through line.

Nic

As we go to, uh, to 1989, and we're taking a different, uh, tonal approach here. We're gonna see a filmmaker we haven't seen yet who's very important throughout this era. Um, and we are gonna visit, uh, Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, New York.

Steve

Nice.

Nic

And we are going to hang out with, uh, Mookie and his crew in Spike Lee's 1989 film Do the Right Thing.

Steve

I am incredibly excited to see this movie because I've never seen it. I'm not entirely sure I've ever seen a Spike Lee movie all the way through. I'm not positive.

Nic

Spike Lee joint.

Steve

Excuse me, a Spike Lee joint. My apologies. Uh, yes, I don't know that I've ever seen any of them all the way through. I've seen clips and bits. You know, there's— he's had such an important, uh, uh, sort of like effect on movies and on culture that you You know, it's another one of these things where I feel like I'm more aware of him than have actually experienced his creative work.

Nic

Well, he's like, you know, talking about these filmmakers of the era that we're covering, him, Kevin Smith, Tarantino maybe, are these guys who were like personalities in addition to being filmmakers. So you would know who they are, what they look like, what they sound like, even if you haven't seen their stuff before.

Steve

100%. I think of Spike Lee, I think of like Courtside at the Knicks. I think of those Penny Hardaway, the little Penny commercials from the '90s Whatever it was. So yeah, it's like you know he's a cultural force. But yeah, I'm not super familiar with his work, and I know what I've heard of this movie. Just that it is was an important film for its time, is still relevant, etc. So I'm very excited to see it. So thank you for bringing Do the Right Thing to the table. I think this will be really interesting to come at it in 2026, never having seen it. Yeah. So we will get into that next week. Yeah, that's that's a wrap. So if you like what you hear, go ahead and head over to Apple or Spotify and give. Us a 5-star review. It really helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website at twodads1movie.com. That's the number 2 and the number 1. There you can explore the movies we've covered, sign up for our newsletter, The Rewind, which I actually put out an issue of not long ago. Yes, exploring the legend of Stan Bush and the song The Touch and how it ties several movies we've seen and even a couple we still will together. It's good stuff.

Nic

Deep dive on Bloodsport is always good. So yeah, great stuff. Check that out.

Steve

And those past issues of The Rewind are available on the website as well. Uh, once again, this has been Mallrats, another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening, and we'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks, everyone.