Transcript

Intro Clip

Oh, fuck 'em. Of course you can pass as an uncle. You're a great performer. I'm a great director. Together we can do almost anything. Oh, Armand, really? Absolutely. Oh. We've got 5 hours. All right, first, get your pinky down. It's up again. All right, and your pacha—. Oh my God, are you crazy? What are you doing? Stop screaming. I'm teaching you to act like a man. All right. All right. Now, this is a dinner party. Let's work with food. All right? Spread some mustard on the toast. Don't use the spoon, and don't dribble little dots of mustard. No? No. You take your knife and you smear. Men smear. Smear. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Get the goddamn pinky down! All right, make your fingers like iron. All right, yeah, and stop trembling. Hold the knife boldly. Yes! Oh God, I pierced the toast!

Steve

It's 2 Dads 1 Movie. It's the podcast where 2 middle-aged dads sit around and shoot the shit about the movies of the '80s and '90s. Here are your hosts, Steve Paulo and Nic Briana. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 Dads, 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

And today we have gone to South Beach in the mid-'90s, and we are watching the comedy classic The Birdcage, based off the play La Cage aux Folles by Jean Poiret and starring Robin Williams and Nathan Lane. This is one that I brought to us, and I'll be honest, it's because it is one of my favorite movies of all time. This is a movie that my wife and I, like, continue to quote to each other. It's one that I saw first in high school. Um, I was in theater. Uh, this seemed like a big movie with theater kids. I feel like, yeah, for whatever reason, maybe because it was based on a play— not that I like saw the play or anything, but, uh, you know, it just—.

Nic

But the world of it too. Yeah, like, the producers of a performance and all that stuff.

Steve

Being in '96, being a very, very queer-friendly, gay-friendly kind of concept, and, and, and, and, you know, the play being centered around like that identity, I think also is a thing that maybe like some elements of mainstream audiences kind of would be like, meh, but like theater kids in particular were sort of in tune with, you know, I think the first few kids I knew growing up who came out of the closet were theater people, you know, just in general. And so yeah, this really hit in that sense for me, but it's just so funny. And this was my first real kind of like understanding of who Nathan Lane is. Obviously he was the voice of Timon a few years earlier in The Lion King, but like, you know, you don't see him if he's animating or voicing an animated character.

Nic

Right.

Steve

He is, Goddamn comedy genius, I think, Nathan Lane. So very, very happy with The Birdcage. Uh, Nic, was this one that you'd seen before?

Nic

Never seen it before. Yeah, so, uh, and it— you know, I like Robin Williams a lot. Obviously, who doesn't? If you find someone who says, yeah, I don't like Robin Williams, like, fuck out of here, man. Go live in Antarctica, do some research.

Steve

Clear red flag.

Nic

Go find The Thing. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I don't know, this just got by me. And not being in theater, uh, you know, I didn't have the same kind of circles and wasn't being shown the same stuff. And then at a certain point in my life, and I think I've talked about this before, like late '90s, early 2000s, I only watched like action movies and stuff. Like I had the most garbage, like the equivalent of a fast food diet of films for like a big stretch of my life. So a lot of this stuff missed me for a long time. And I got back into these types of movies maybe the last like 10 years. But, uh, yeah, I'd never seen this one before.

Steve

So. Okay.

Nic

I heard a lot about it. I know a lot of people are big fans of it, so, uh, always down to see some Bobby Williams.

Steve

Yeah, absolutely. Bobby. I don't know if I've ever heard him called Bobby.

Nic

I know. I like that.

Steve

No, I think you should stick with that. That should be your thing. From now on, he's Bobby to you. I like that. Um, all right, let's jump into the facts on The Birdcage. Uh, the movie The Birdcage was released on March 8th, 1996 with an R rating and a running time of 117 minutes. It was directed by Mike Nichols, and the screenplay was written by Elaine May and based, as I said, on the play by Jean Poiret. It stars Robin Williams, Gene Hackman, and Nathan Lane. Scores on Rotten Tomatoes, a really healthy 85%. On IMDb, slightly like lower kind of in comparison, 7.3. Not quite as popular on IMDb. We get a thumbs down from the schmuck Gene Siskel and a thumbs up from the homie Roger Ebert. Awards, quite a bit of award activity actually on this one. So we have an Oscar nomination in '97 for art direction. It didn't win, but I mean, yeah, really stunning sets and the way things are decorated.

Nic

Yeah, visually, like capturing that like South Beach, Miami kind of feeling, the colors and the vibrance. Of it was really nice.

Steve

Also, whoever did the costumes, there were more thongs in this movie than maybe any movie ever created. Very interesting. It won a couple of awards at the 1997 Blockbuster Awards, which we have to remind ourselves every once in a while were a thing that existed.

Nic

That's right.

Steve

Gene Hackman and Dianne Wiest won the Best Supporting Actor and Best Supporting Actress awards at Blockbuster for this. In '97 at the Golden Globes, we got nominations for Best Comedy Picture and for Best Actor in a Comedy for Nathan Lane. No wins there though. In the 1997 MTV Movie Awards, It was nominated for the Best On-Screen Duo for Robin Williams and Nathan Lane, and Best Comedic Performance for Robin Williams, but also no wins there.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

One other kind of, yeah, I don't know about major, but larger award win at the '97 SAG Awards, or the Screen Actors Guild, now called the Actors Awards, the entire cast won Outstanding Performance by a Cast.

Nic

Okay.

Steve

So sort of a joint award there. On a $31 million budget, they pulled in $185.3 million at the box office for just under 6 times what it cost to make. And again, for an R-rated movie that's not like a thriller or an action movie or whatever. That's actually pretty impressive, I think, for sort of an R-rated comedy, uh, to pull in that kind of money. Not— yeah, for sure.

Nic

Not being like a Terminator 2 type thing.

Steve

Yeah, I think I looked up like the highest grossing R-rated movies of the '90s, and basically across the board it was like action movies and Basic Instinct. That was basically it.

Nic

So, and this movie makes a lot of sense.

Steve

None of those tones really. So, all right, so let's jump into the actual film, The Birdcage. We start off with South Beach, Miami, Florida. Zooming in over the water, we get the whole kind of vibe of like, you know, Ocean Boulevard there in South Beach. All the clubs, neon signs, people walking around dressed in very little clothing, a lot of bathing suits, a lot of thongs. As I said, men and women, plenty of thongs. Um, we zoom in on the Birdcage, which is the name of a nightclub, and on the outside it says, uh, Armond Goldman presents Starina and the Goldman Girls. And this is a, uh, Not Golden Girls, but Golden Girls. I thought it was cute. Uh, this is a drag club. They're, they're a drag show. Um, so we head inside along with some customers, and we're just getting like a vibe, getting like the feel for the place.

Nic

Uh, and it's a cool shot, like where it kind of flies across the water, like to the front of the club, and then right inside.

Steve

And then seamlessly kind of we're now following people in rather than flying, right? Which is very neat. Good, good, good editing there. And then, uh, we're quickly— we see, uh, Robin Williams' character Armond Goldman, and he is clearly the club's owner. I mean, his name's on the you know, marquee, but also like he's kind of checking on everything. He's talking to the host and he's talking to the bartender and he's kind of making sure everything's in place and all this stuff. And, uh, a waiter comes up to him and says, you know, uh, the Kennedys are here for, you know, 3rd time this week. You want to pick up their, uh, tab? And he goes, is it— what does he say? Is it Teddy? And he goes, no, it's the younger ones. I wish we could get Teddy. You know, it's funny, A, to want Teddy Kennedy anywhere is, is— Right, right.

Nic

Odd.

Steve

But then I thought to myself, the younger ones. So is this like RFK Jr.?

Nic

RFK Jr. absolutely is there, dude. And I think he was served the free coffee that screwed up his voice forever. That must be it.

Steve

Yeah. Yeah. And I asked for green tea, like, oh my God, that or it was snorting all the cocaine off the toilet seats.

Nic

That was prime drug time for sure. Yeah. So that was definitely something I wrote down where I was like, oh, that was RFK Jr. era. Imagine what a nightmare that guy was in his like mid-30s or whatever. Oh man. Yeah. So, but it is funny how Albert's just like, all right, well, it's not Ted, then they get free coffee.

Steve

Yeah. I also think I want to point out here that like Armand is wearing throughout most of this movie, but certainly they're very obvious in this, in this opening scene, what I think look like the most comfortable pair of pants that have ever existed. Like, I don't think I could pull them off because they're really flowy and whatever, but they look so comfortable. Like, in the heat in Florida, flowy linen pants.

Nic

He has some outfits in this movie where I am just like, dude, my, my buttons feel tighter just looking at him. Like, even though I'm not wearing anything tight, it just seems so comfortable to live in.

Steve

I may not be able to go out in it, but I would absolutely lounge around my house wearing that. For sure.

Nic

Like, for sure.

Steve

Oh man.

Nic

So, so they're, so they're telling him like they're, they're kind of in this performance, this We Are Family performance, and, uh, coming up is Starina. Like, Starina's on in 5, and Starina is the Nathan Lane, the character that Nathan Lane's character Albert plays. Exactly, right on stage. Um, and you know, Albert is having a bit of a meltdown like leading up to this.

Steve

Yeah. And so, so Armond runs upstairs to like see what's going on, and Albert like locks himself in his dressing room, I guess. He's got, you know, like a room there because it's like their apartment basically is like above. Yeah, the club and their apartment.

Nic

It took me a minute to figure out the geography of this until I realized, okay, that like they live right upstairs.

Steve

And they've even got like a little rooftop pool. Yeah, it's a really nice place. Yeah. Um, but, uh, Hank Azaria plays their maid or, or, you know, houseman or whatever. Uh, uh, Agador. Uh, Guatemalan thick accent. Hank Azaria looks great in this. He's obviously Like he looks ripped. Like I don't ever remember him necessarily being a dude who's ripped, but he's like jacked in this movie.

Nic

He's always— what was the one where he was like the scuba instructor guy? I feel like there's a few movies where it's like, whoa, dude, what the hell? You can't be able to do every voice and be able to do like one-arm push-ups on your pinkies.

Steve

Are you for scuba? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But basically, like, Armand is trying to like knock down the door because Albert's refusing to come out. He finally does actually bust down the door, and it's just a lot of chaos. I do love a line in here where Albert finally agrees, 'cause they're gonna say, oh, well, we'll put on so-and-so, some other actor to be Starina. And Albert's like, no, like, the people came to see Starina, you know? And he's like, kind of like, okay, fine, I'll do it. And but he goes to Agador, Agador, I need some Pyrin tablets, please. And Armand's like, well, what the fuck? What are you— what, you giving her drugs? You're giving him drugs?

Nic

What the fuck is going on?

Steve

And Agador's like, it's Asparin with the A and the S scraped off. Oh, that's brilliant. Like, let him think it's something else.

Nic

Good gag there, for sure. Um, Let's see. Oh, so so he finally agrees, and like kind of under the threat of okay, well we'll let somebody else do it. And that's like it's it's funny kind of throughout this film how the characters all know what the other person's limit actually is. Right. Like so they're able to call each other's bluffs pretty accurately.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Like throughout this movie with his son and like you know all this other stuff.

Steve

That's a good point.

Nic

So yeah, so Albert just finally agrees to go on. Right. But then. Armand is— he's got things to do, right? He's meeting somebody, and Albert is like suspicious because he said that, well, why did it— you know, is there another man? Because they're going through a breakup. It's kind of hinting at this. Well, it's right.

Steve

I think it's more just Albert's just really, um, like, what's the term, like, like not very confident, like lacking in self-confidence in their relationship. And he says like, there's white wine in the fridge. Yeah, I only drink red. You only drink red. And Armand's like trying to play it off, and he's like, you know, oh, I switched to white because red has tannins. Albert's not buying it.

Nic

Correct.

Steve

Well, yes, absolutely.

Nic

I just wanted to make sure the wine stuff was factually correct.

Steve

Tannins come from contact with the skins of the grapes.

Nic

Oh, okay.

Steve

And you don't generally get very much skin contact in white wine. You get a little tiny bit in rosé wine and then a lot in red wine to get the coloring. That's where all the pigment lives and that's where the tannins come from. And tannins also, if you've ever had old tea, like you make a hot tea and then it gets cold and it kind of whatever, and then you taste it and it's extra bitter.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

That's tannin. That's literally the same thing. It's like plant material like basically does that. So a little education for everybody. But yeah, I love there's a moment where Uh, uh, Albert is like on top of Armand, is like knocking, he's like, hit me, you wanna hit me, don't you? And he goes, he's like, and he checks his watch to see how much time he has left, and then he pushes him by the face off of him. Um, but basically like Armand is meeting somebody, and so he goes back upstairs, tells Agador to take the night off. Agador's dancing to Gloria Estefan.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Uh, and there's this point where he, he takes the, the, the radio or whatever and goes, come on, Gloria. And that's something my wife Heather and I still say to each other all the time. For— we find ways to fit come on, Gloria into as much of our conversation as possible.

Nic

Um, nice.

Steve

But sure enough, he gives Agador the night off. So it's like, you know, we're right with Albert here, led to believe Armand is, is stepping out.

Nic

Right, because he doesn't give any information or whatever.

Steve

Um, but it turns out—.

Nic

Yeah, so, so somebody comes in, younger looking guy, handsome guy. And I don't know if I just got this wrong the first time, but I feel like they're leaving it very up in the air. Like the way that they greet each other, I was still just like, yeah, okay, this is like the other guy, right? Um, and, and it's kind of set up that way, and there's a lot of conversation.

Steve

Yeah.

Nic

Uh, before it's revealed that this is Val, this is their son.

Steve

Yes. Right.

Nic

Well, this is, this is specifically Armand's biological son, but I think Albert has been in his life for like mo— his whole life, for most of his life.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Absolutely. Um, this guy sucks ass. I don't like the actor. I don't like the character.

Steve

Yep.

Nic

Uh, I was just like, I can't say— he has that kind of like John Mulaney face where his eyes seem to be drifting further apart from each other over time. Time. Um, and I like John Mulaney, but, uh, yeah, this guy was killing me the whole time.

Steve

It should come as no surprise that basically everybody else in this cast is, you know, at this point was already famous, right? Or became quite famous after the fact. Because you have, you have Robin Williams, Nathan Lane, Gene Hackman. That's sort of your top billing, right? All, you know, Nathan Lane, this was near the beginning. This was before he did The Producers. This is like near the beginning of his like stardom. But like Huge star, right? Gene Hackman, Robin Williams, massive, massive stars. Diane Wiest, massive star. Hank Azaria, you know, better known for voice work pre-this, but like—.

Nic

But he's been steadily involved in stuff.

Steve

Absolutely doing stuff. Calista Flockhart, I think pretty unknown here, but then became Ally McBeal, and like, you know, that's a huge thing. Christine Baranski is a fucking goddamn treasure, and she's in a big chunk of this. And then there's this guy. Yeah. And he's just there. And Val is by far the shittiest character.

Nic

Yeah, he's the character that it's hard to like root for him in any way, 'cause you're just like— I mean, what you're doing is sympathizing with a parent who has a pain-in-the-ass kid who's just trying to do what they can to make them happy.

Steve

It's a weird trail of, like, who's to blame, 'cause it's sort of like, all right, like, look, Val can't control who he fell in love with, and who he fell in love with seems like a very lovely person, Barbara. We learn about this in a second, but, like, basically, he's getting married. Val tells his dad, Armand, I'm getting married. It's a girl. I met her at school, like, whatever. And Armand's like, you're gonna throw your life away, like, all this kind of stuff. And he's, like, not cool with it. They even do this little— thing where he's like, if you do this, you leave here, you never come back. Like, you're cut off forever.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Val calls the bluff and is like, okay, Dad, sorry, nice to see you, nice to know you, take care. And of course Armond pulls him in like, you pisser, you just called my bluff, right?

Nic

Like you were saying, we got 2 big bluff calls in like the first 10 minutes here.

Steve

Um, but really the, the sort of trail of who's to blame here is like, well, so Barbara, as it turns out, her parents are ultra conservative. Her father is Kevin Keeley, senator from Ohio. And the co-founder of a group called the Coalition for Moral Order, which has got many sort of like corollary-type groups that actually existed at the time, you know, but are like this kind of mid-'90s resurgence of like the Contract with America, Newt Gingrich, like all this blah, blah, blah, the sort of reaction to the Clinton presidency.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Um, so she has shitty parents who may, you know, have made it clear to her that like with, you know, if it was obvious who's Val's family— who Val's family really was, they would have a problem with it. They would say no or cut her off, or there would be some massive consequences.

Nic

Yeah, they have no like give in their position. No, exactly.

Steve

Val fell in love with who he fell in love with, so are you really gonna blame Val for falling in love with who he fell in love with? No, but then he asks his dad to just completely lie about who he is, send Albert, who we've kind of established, or gets established, like, has basically been the maternal figure in his life.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

Send him away, like, all this stuff. So it's like, yeah, you're shitty. So it's like, I guess we can easily sympathize with Armand. He's in the most kind of like— Armand and Albert are in the most like—.

Nic

He's been the most put in a position out of all of us.

Steve

Exactly, kind of thing.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

But then Val, you're kind of like, dude, could you have a couple of balls in you there to stand up to—? It is crazy. Yeah, it's so bad.

Nic

Being 20 is such a big difference than being even 25, 30. But yeah, it is like... I mean, you have to figure this out. You have to, like... If you let this be the beginning of the relationship, then you've made that compromise forever.

Steve

It's crazy.

Nic

Yeah. So, not a fan of Val here.

Steve

No.

Nic

Um, and not a likable enough character to be like, oh, well, I want this guy's love to work out. So no, agreed. Um, but they, uh, so as they're having this kind of conversation, he wants Armond to get on the phone. Val calls Barbara and they're talking. He's like, okay, well, I told my dad and everything, and they're getting all excited. Um, and Barbara and Armond like gets on the phone with her, but she's been kind of telling fibs to her parents because she knows what Armond and Albert— like, she doesn't care. She's aware and she's like fine with all of it, but she's kind protecting her parents. And then her dad, Gene Hackman, is in the midst of, A, a big election, and B, kind of a big scandal, which we find out about in a minute.

Steve

Right, the scandal hasn't broken yet, but he is— this Coalition for Moral Order thing seems fairly new. Like, it's something that has just kind of hit the scene. So he's been on talk shows and stuff. He's clearly also written a book, because there's several scenes where he's going through the typist's manuscript. It's almost like he handwrote a novel or something. And now there's this huge manuscript he has to go through and check. So he's got a lot going on. Reelection campaign, like, whatever, right? And so he gets on the phone and, like, overhears the conversation between Armond and Barbara. And all he really places is that Barbara said that he's the cultural attaché to Greece.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Um, and he— and she saw Val that day. Now Val's with his dad, so she now has to pivot super fast. Like, they came home, they came home for vacation, they're in South Beach or whatever. It's like, so every— this is lie on lie on lie. Uh, but yeah.

Nic

And it is funny, like, throughout this how credulous Gene Hackman's character is. Like, for being someone who's, like, laying down the law on this is how things are, should be, and he believes like everything that's presented to him, you know. Uh, one thing I will say, Coalition, uh, for Moral Order, right? They could have done like Coalition of Moral Excellence or something that's like a pun, like that works out to say cum or something like that. I think it's just a missed opportunity for a joke. Fair. That's fair.

Steve

Um, does Como not work? Oh no, it's gonna be good. Oh no, it wouldn't be. Yeah, you can actually pronounce it.

Nic

CFMO.

Steve

Yeah, total missed opportunity.

Nic

Uh, and so we've got, we've got a little, uh, Azaria Back at the house, because yes, he's talking like they're kind of the next morning, right? So Val had like gone to sleep. Albert came up after the show, after Val had already gone to bed. He found out Val's visiting exactly, and then got his laundry very sweetly, like went and gathered his laundry and went and did it for him.

Steve

Very mom move.

Nic

Yeah, really, really mom stuff. There's some good Hank Azaria talking about his Guatemalan-ness in this in this part here.

Steve

My father was the shaman of his tribe, and my mother was the high priestess. And then Armand's like, "Why they moved to New Jersey?" And he's like, "I don't know. They're so." But he wants to audition, basically. Like, Agador wants to be one of the Golden Girls, wants to be on stage for the drag show. But he asks, like, when are you gonna let me audition for you again? And he goes, when you have talent. So clearly, this is a fun little thing between them, but like, Armond has no intention of letting Agador be in the show. Right, right. But it's still— it's a fun little kind of back and forth. I love too, Agador makes Turkish coffee, which Armond is like, ooh, this— what is this, sludge? And he's like, yeah, I thought it'd be a nice change from coffee. But when Albert comes home with the groceries, he takes a sip and is like, ooh, Turkish coffee, delicious.

Nic

Turkish coffee is good, but if you're not expecting Turkish coffee, it is jarring. Yeah, because there's like lots of like spices and things that aren't coffee in it too. So, so we find out that the co-founder of this Coalition for Moral Order has been found dead. Yes. But he was also like a very conservative politician, but was found dead and in bed with an underage African-American prostitute. Right. So it's like, okay, you're a child molester and you, you clearly like some people that aren't white, you know, which is a—.

Steve

Stepped out of your marriage.

Nic

And all this stuff, right? Um, so this is a big scandal for Gene Hackman's character. He— and there's like press like swarming him, right? So this is a big deal and it's fucking up all his plans.

Steve

Yeah. And so, uh, they decide, hey, uh, Diane Wiest's character and, and Cloris Leach's character— so this is, uh, I can't remember the name of the mom, Mrs. Keely, and then Barbara. They kind of both come at the same time to Gene Hackman. They're like, hey, you know what could like make this go be better is a wedding, right? We already told you like Barbie wants to marry this guy or whatever. Like, let's go meet the family and then you can announce a wedding. And that's, you know, hope and future and family and like innocence and all this stuff. And he kind of, kind of gets talked into it, but, you know, not super crazy. There's also a scene in here real quick, somewhere in here where Albert is reminiscing, flipping through a photo album.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

Of like Val as a young boy. And I think it's really weird, because all the photos are in black and white. They all look like they were taken in, like, the '50s. But Val is 20 years old in 1996, so he's like 3 years older than us. Like, and these are photos of him as, like, a 10- to 11-year-old, so, like, the late '80s, maybe? You know what I mean? It's like, why would it look that way? It looks so strange.

Nic

No, that is funny. It's probably a props department thing, where we're like, we need to hammer home that these are old photos, so they gotta be black and white.

Steve

And maybe it was easier to, like, splice the actors at young— at different ages together.

Nic

Oh, yeah, sure.

Steve

To make them look like they were standing there if it was black and white, you know? A sort of Clerks thing where it's like, hey, the colors will all just match. Nobody will look wrong. We don't have to worry about the lighting as much if we do it in black and white. Um, but basically, there is, uh— oh, and then there's a rehearsal. So, uh, at the Birdcage, and, uh, Albert is rehearsing with this, uh, dancer who does not dress in drag. It is a male dancer who stays dressed as a man. Named Celsius, and they're doing this new piece, and Albert's trying to sing, and the guy is just being rude. He's grabbing his crotch and chewing gum, and Albert is losing it.

Nic

Terrible work ethic. Just your kinda surly, like, ugh, I don't wanna be here guy.

Steve

Yeah, and he tries to be all like, well, what am I, just an object? And Armand's like, no, you do an eclectic bouquet of dance. You do Fosse, Fosse, Fosse, and Martha Graham, Martha Graham. And he's doing all these dances. But you do it all inside.

Nic

Um, yeah, he was, uh, and what— this was the line that, um, Albert had about this guy was like, he was upset the guy was chewing gum and he's like, well, it helps me think. He's like, you know, I don't— there's not enough gum in the world for that or whatever.

Steve

You're wasting your gum. Yeah, you're wasting your gum.

Nic

Um, so, uh, so Val kind of proposes to Armand like what he wants the deal to be. He's like, look, Barbara's parents are gonna come meet us. Yeah, this is who they are. Yeah, and our mom doesn't know who it is.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, he's not aware.

Nic

It's funny, he's like, do you ever read the newspaper? He's like, yeah, Variety, National Enquirer, the arts and leisure section of the New York Times. Um, so, uh, so he ends up, you know, telling him who he is, and he's like, look, basically like, Dad, tone it down.

Steve

Right, right, right. Like, big time.

Nic

Including the house, including, you know, he's like, it would help if you weren't like They have a lot—.

Steve

They have a lot of fertility statues around.

Nic

Yeah, there's all this artwork.

Steve

A nude statue of Neptune and all this kind of stuff. And of course, Armond himself is wearing foundation, you know, like makeup. And so, really shitty of Val, he puts his finger up to Armond's— to his dad's jaw and gets some foundation on his hand and wipes it on the wall, which I'm like, dude, do you know how expensive it is to sponge-paint a wall? Like, that's gonna— you can't wash that. It'll screw it up.

Nic

Right, 'cause it's gonna mess up the whole pattern.

Steve

It's got texture. Yeah, you know, it's, ugh. So, but anyway. One more way Val's being a shithead.

Nic

Disrespectful. And just like lighting up cigarettes in the middle of the house. But I guess that's fine there too.

Steve

Because Armond smokes, I think maybe that happens more often. But it's funny too, actually, every time Val tries to light a cigarette, Armond takes it from him. Like, he doesn't want Val to smoke, but he himself is smoking through most of the movie.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

But that's a very like parent kind of thing.

Nic

Uh, some of the stuff that they have to move is funny, right? He picks up this, you know, this statue that's like a, a little idol type thing with a penis. And then he— and then Armond goes to turn it around backwards.

Steve

There's like this huge ass crack.

Nic

He's like, I don't know if that's any better.

Steve

Is that better? So, but they, they, you know, he basically says initially to Val, like, I'm not doing it, man. Like, I am who I am. It's taken me 20 years to understand who I am, and I'm not gonna, you know, fuck the senator. I don't care what he thinks.

Nic

Yeah. Um, is it weird he quoted himself from Popeye by saying, I am who I am?

Steve

I am what I am. Uh, yeah. So, but he basically decides, no, I'm not doing it. Um, we get a little scene back at the Keeley house where Kevin— Gene Hackman tries to climb out the window to avoid the press. Yeah. Which is shitty as hell because the wife, Diane Wiest, is like, what are you gonna do? I don't want to be out there alone. He's like, you won't be alone, Barbara will be with you, you coward-ass fuck. Yeah, but he goes to climb out and the press must have been waiting for him or something. I don't know, they might have seen the ladder, right? There's a huge ladder.

Nic

Seriously, hard to hide the purpose of that.

Steve

Yeah, it's not like something he like threw out the window and like starts climbing. No, it's just there.

Nic

So they're talking, and so he stops short— press conference on the ladder.

Steve

Yeah, he kind of stops short of fully like saying, oh, there's gonna be a wedding or whatever, but basically he actually tries to misdirect the, the crowd, the press, and says we're going to our farm. Uh, it doesn't say where, but I'm assuming somewhere there in Ohio where he's a senator from. Um, but there's another, uh, one of the journos there is from the National Enquirer, this kind of fat guy, and he had already paid off the driver, uh, to ask where he's taking him.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And he's told him South Beach, Florida. And so he calls out and is the one that calls out and says, where are you headed, Senator? Oh, we're headed to our family farm. That's all I'm gonna say right now. He's like, so now the journo knows, cool, nobody else knows where they're going. He's trying to hide where he's going, which means something interesting is gonna happen. Him. Um, so they do start driving down, and the, uh, the, the— we can see as they're driving down the highway that there's like a car following them kind of the whole way. Yeah, these guys are following them.

Nic

Uh, and, uh, so Armond has kind of like thought about it, right? And, and Val sees that, you know, the next morning Armond is doing work to try to like de-gay the house.

Steve

Yeah, get rid of all the artwork and different stuff.

Nic

To try to make it look like a conservative person's house, right? And I do— I like This is a very kind of real moment where, you know, Val's like, oh, like, thank you so much, Dad, for doing this. And Armond's just like, don't talk to me for a while. Because that is super relatable. And I want to say to everyone, just because you don't have a smile on your face the whole time you're doing something doesn't mean that you're not happy to do it for someone. You're— it's okay to have a reaction.

Steve

100%.

Nic

If someone has you carry a heavy thing, you can be like, God, this is fucking heavy. And it doesn't mean that they need to take it back. You're allowed to react to it. So I do like that they left space for Armond to be like— he wasn't like, you're my son, I'd do anything for you. He was just kind of like, fuck you, buddy. Like, yeah, I'll do this, but we need a little time to cool off.

Steve

It's sort of a thing. It kind of gives the indication, like, because I'm doing it, you and I know we're fine long-term.

Nic

Yes.

Steve

But right now, I am furious, and I don't want to deal with this and you right now. And I think that's fair. I think that's something, you know, you can't necessarily do with, like, when your kids are children.

Nic

No.

Steve

But once your kids are adults, like, hell yeah, that's a totally viable sort of, like, response, because you're making it clear to them, Look, I have boundaries and things that I have chosen in this one case to move for you.

Nic

Right.

Steve

Right? Like, normally I don't let anybody tell me who I am and who I'm not. And I'm not doing that for you, like, for my life, but I will do that for you tonight because I love you. But you've gotta know that is costing me something.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And I think that was really great. And like I said, it's like in 2 lines, just 2 lines, but we get all of that mainly because Robin Williams is a fantastic actor and really delivers that line, you know, with so much behind it. But yeah, so, but the fact remains, they are doing the cleanup. They're gonna change the house over. They're gonna do it. They got to talk about. And Armond says— And they keep—.

Nic

Val, this is kind of funny how, you know, Val is helping and also watching what they're doing, and new things will appear. And he's like, what's that? They're like, oh, we got this down at the thrift store. He's like, don't add stuff, just get rid of stuff. So, you know, they keep trying to help in funny ways.

Steve

Somebody put Playboys in the bathroom. He goes, who put Playboy there? It's what they read. Don't add, just subtract. But Armond now has the problem of having to, quote, get rid of Albert, have Albert go away for, you know, a night or whatever and go somewhere else and not be there, because they were thinking earlier Oh, maybe Albert could be explained away as an uncle. And Armand's like, hey, without a mother here to be your mother, without a woman here, he's just gonna be your gay Uncle Albert. That's still a problem, right?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And I was like, yeah, that would still be a problem. So, they're, you know, Armand and Albert go, they hang out on the beach for a while, uh, and all this stuff. But Armand kind of opens with, like, you know, maybe you should go to, like, Boca or something. He says somewhere else, uh, you know, you're looking, like, tired or whatever. And this sets Albert off, and he's like, tired means old. Like, I wanna go home.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

So now he's like— Armand's trying to keep him from going back home. You know, he like fakes an injury, an ankle injury, like all this kind of stuff.

Nic

Right.

Steve

And then they get home finally, and Albert screams the— like one of the funniest screams ever. And I'm not gonna try to do it, but Nathan Lane does a great scream, and he screams, we've been robbed! Because it looks like the whole thing is— everything's gone. Oh, it's beautiful.

Nic

The sound design, yeah.

Steve

And that's when Val says, oh, it'll all be back. It'll all be back by the time you get back. And he goes, where am I going? So Armond hadn't even had a chance to tell Albert any of this. Like, none of this has been explained. And, and, you know, Albert is, is rightfully super fucking pissed off.

Nic

Well, and if I could give some advice to Val and Armond in this case, you don't have to say, I'm sorry, Albert, you're too, like, noticeably gay. Like, you aggress everything. You should be like, Albert, you've been proven to overreact and be incredibly chaotic and unpredictable in every situation, and I don't want that this weekend.

Steve

It probably would be a better sell.

Nic

Like, he's been acting insane this whole fucking movie so far, so it's like, Like you can point to that.

Steve

Like, it's a good point. It's not straight.

Nic

You're acting wild as fuck, right?

Steve

Your actual identity is not the issue. Your reactions are the issue. That would be— it would be an easier sell for sure.

Nic

Um, so, so the, the plan is— and, and Armand doesn't tell Val this. Armand's like, okay, well, I'll work on him. We'll get him out of town. But then he's trying to work with Albert to like, all right, like, we can get you in. We can have you be an uncle and, and whatever. And giving him lessons on, you know, how to do things in a manly way. So we get some funny bits there. Yes, uh, the mustard smear I think is funny, like real men smear. Yeah, a lot of— get your pinky down.

Steve

Yeah, the spoon and the glass, a lot of pinky. Um, they do the walk. He's like, let me, let me show you how to walk. Yeah, right. So Albert gets up and walks, and it's very kind of swishy, and his hands are— and so Armand's like, let me, let me give you an image. It's a cliché, but it's an image. John Wayne. You're a big fan. Try that, you know. So he does. He gets his little straw hat even, whatever, and he starts walking. And he's, again, it's kind of a, kind of, you know, a saunter, I guess you'd call it, right? And he walks by this like old woman in a very Florida-looking outfit, the bejeweled like hat and— ma'am, you know, kind of the whole thing. Comes back and he goes, no good? And then Armond's like, no, that was perfect. I just never realized John Wayne walked like that.

Nic

Yeah, that was a good payoff. 'Cause I've seen it, like, it's a very '80s, '90s, like a John Wayne impression, right? And a very Robin Williams, like from his stand-up thing. Like that's a jam that he does. And if it was just that, it would be kind of like, oh, whatever. But the fact that they ended it with kind of pointing out that like, oh, John Wayne walks hella gay, you know? And by the way, I'm saying this like in the context of the movie, like for lack of— like, you, you all know what I mean by this. Um, so yeah, that was, uh, that was a good way to end that bit for sure.

Steve

We also— my wife and I, another thing that we routinely say and just got into our vernacular is, oh, I've pierced the toes.

Nic

Oh, kiss the toes. Kissing the toes. Uh, the other funny thing where they're practicing kind of having like guy-level small talk, right? Uh, and, and Robin Williams, he's like, oh, so how about those dolphins? Whatever. And he— and Robin Williams is giving all this technical stuff and he's like, how does that make you feel? And he's like, oh, betrayed, bewildered. Like, that's— that was good. That was a good line by him.

Steve

Um, betrayed, bewildered.

Nic

So, so the conclusion, I guess, or, or what they're talking about is that they need like a woman to be present to make this whole thing works. Someone to be playing Val's mother. Exactly. And then Albert's less of a concern because there's like a mother-father family there, right?

Steve

You've got the mom and dad, and then in the context there's this uncle and he's just in town visiting. Like, that's a much easier sort of story to tell than like, why are there just 2 guys and there's no mom? Like, that kind of thing, right? It would be easier for them. So they decide to enlist the help of Val's birth mother, uh, Catherine Archer, who has this like big kind of fitness company or something. We're not sure exactly. I can't tell exactly what it is, but yeah, it's some kind of like athletic, either athletic wear or gyms or something, played by Christine Baranski, who's one of my favorite people in Hollywood. Like anything Christine Baranski's in, she's fantastic. So they go together. Armand and Albert go together to visit Catherine, although Armand's going to go in and Albert's just going to wait in the waiting room. So this, the backstory we get is that, you know, 20-odd years ago, 21 years ago or whatever it's been since Val's 20, they were in a production together. Katherine and Armond, and they had an affair, you know, they hooked up basically. And Armond even says like, you know, I figured, give it a shot. What are all these straight guys raving about when it comes to like sleeping with a woman? Like, I'll try.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And so they did. Apparently that was enough to conceive Val. And basically Armond gave Katherine a bunch of money to give up custody of Val and have Armond take full custody of him. And that's how she started her business. So it's like very— so it's a very amicable sort of thing. Catherine seems ecstatic to see him. Like, like, yeah, she never thought he would— she would again, maybe.

Nic

But like a good moment between the two of them. And it's nice that they let it go so long of them kind of like reminiscing about, uh, the stuff that they were in together and doing a couple of old bits and all that stuff.

Steve

Doing a number here and a little dance there.

Nic

Yeah. So they gave her probably more screen. A lot of times, like, that character isn't gonna get like that little chunk, right? So that was, that was cool to see that, you know. And then as a theater person, it probably— it, it— I don't know, it gives you feelings about just the connections that you have with people that you performed with.

Steve

Absolutely.

Nic

Even years and years later, you kind of remember stuff that you did and all that.

Steve

Yeah, it's definitely a connection, yeah, that you keep. And, and, but unfortunately, Albert gets more and more tired of waiting because, you know, Armand was supposed to go in 15 minutes, chat with him. We get the sense that much more time than that has passed. Um, Catherine opened a bottle of champagne, and, uh, and there, when she starts kind of really flirting with him hard, like talking about his chest hair and kind of doing this stuff, and they're almost canoodling— I mean, not Armand so much as Catherine is being very forward— as Albert walks in. And, and, and is freaked out. Albert goes to the car that they drove, Armand's car, to go there, and it's clearly struggling to drive it but gets it driven away. But we cut back to the house and Armand has arrived. Albert's not there yet. Yeah. And he goes, is Albert back yet? No, I thought he was with you. Great, he's driving back from, you know, wherever, Palm Beach or whatever, Fort Lauderdale, something like that, you know, with the parking brake on. Yeah, yeah. We get the sense Albert doesn't do much driving.

Nic

Yeah, it's definitely, uh, Armand is is taking care of a lot of the business.

Steve

Yes, exactly.

Nic

Um, yeah, so Albert walks in the door and, you know, has another meltdown.

Steve

A meltdown.

Nic

Because, okay, you know, I walked in on Armond and stuff, and, oh, I know what you're trying to do to me, and I'll be leaving. But clearly, like, wants them to ask him questions about it. And again, like, they're all acting like vets who have been through his bullshit, like, multiple times every week for years and years and years, right? Uh, so they're finally like, oh, okay, well, hey, Albert, where are you going then?

Steve

He's like, I'll bite. Like, yeah.

Nic

And he basically says, like, I'm going to this— I'm going to this town.

Steve

Lost Copa.

Nic

The only thing there is a cemetery. And he's like, oh, that's why I'm packing light, and storms off.

Steve

He says, you're taking a toothbrush to a cemetery? How Egyptian.

Nic

Yeah. Um, oh, man. So, yeah, I mean, he storms off, but then Armand knows kind of where to find him and where to go get him.

Steve

He's basically at a bus stop.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Waiting to head out of town. And so, yeah, Armond finds him and brings what they've talked about a few times, the palimony agreement. And I had to, like, look this up even recently 'cause I've kind of forgot the exact details, but I guess it's, you know, when you have, like, some kind of a domestic partnership where there's no marriage involved. And obviously back then, and in Florida in particular, there would've been no chance for these two to get married in any meaningful way. The palimony agreement is essentially just a business agreement that says, I own half of what you own, you own half of what I own, and it's even split, right? So basically, the closest thing financially that they could do to marriage, basically, at the time. And they— and, you know, he brings it and they sign it. And, you know, Albert's like, I don't want all this stuff. He's like, well, then give it to me. Like, the point is, I want us together. Like, it's Armond basically saying, I hadn't done this before, not because I didn't want to do it. I just didn't think it was that important to you. Now I clearly understand that it is like something you need to feel good about this. So let's do it. Like, it's, you know, they're tied together. And that's— it's really a sweet kind of moment. And it's really funny because it starts off with Armond complaining. About how shitty the cemetery in Las Copa is and his cemetery plots in Key Biscayne. But now he has to, you know, it's gorgeous, a beautiful view of the ocean, and now he's got to sell it to get a plot next to you in that piece of shit Las Copa. Yeah, yeah. He's so angry about it.

Nic

Yeah, that's a nice scene with them on the, uh, on the bus bench. It's kind of like the, the Norman Rockwell, like where there's the kid with the I ran away from home bindle and the cop sitting next to him. It's kind of like Armand with Albert, like, hey, I know you tried to run away from home, but let's get you back here.

Steve

Let's get you a cup of soup and get you back home. Yeah.

Nic

So, so Armond is kind of like realizing, like, this is the person that I love. Like, this is what's important to me. If, if Val's fiancée and her family don't accept us, then that is 100% on them. Like, I'm gonna call Mom and tell her not to come.

Steve

Right. So we're gonna do it. Yeah. Armond leaves a message with Katherine's, uh, assistant or whatever saying like, don't come, don't bother. Um, and he's— and she even says, well, she's already on her way, but I'll try to reach her on her car phone. Right, is what she says. Um, so back at the house they're all dressing in like conservative wear, right? So Armond's got his like black suit and tie on, he's got his hair slicked back, honestly looking like my grandpa. But he says he looks like his grandpa. And then you look like my grandfather in this suit. He killed himself when he was 40 or something like that.

Nic

What do you gotta say? Do not like Robin Williams making suicide references in movies. It stings a lot. And I think he does it twice in this movie, and I'm just like, oh no.

Steve

Um, but then Albert comes out in his suit and initially looks good. I mean, he's, you know, he kind of has to struggle to deliberately walk in a different way than he would normally walk, trying to, like, play it straight or whatever. But he gets— he sits down and, you know, whatever, and kind of sits, and he crosses his leg initially more feminine, and then changes to cross his leg more masculine, all this stuff. And they're kind of like, okay. And he goes, oh, you figure I dress like this, I'm even more obvious, right? Like, I took off my rings, I'm dressed just like you. And then Harmon goes, what about those? And he's wearing these bright pink socks. He just goes, well, one does want a hint of color. Yeah. Which is another— that's another one that Heather and I always say.

Nic

And it is so funny, though, the way that Albert is dressed. It's like, all right, this is either— this is either like flamboyant gay men just wearing a suit or the most vicious killer in Boardwalk Empire. You know, like, like those flamboyant criminal guys dress the exact same way that they would, like, make fun of someone for just like, oh, it's the same thing. Everyone just wants to look good and they want to have people looking at them.

Steve

Exactly.

Nic

Yeah. So they're kind of realizing that, like, oh, man, this This—.

Steve

It's good. It's not gonna work. It's not gonna work.

Nic

Our training, no matter how much training— and they only had like 6 hours in the first place. Ridiculous. Yeah, you're not gonna do that.

Steve

And they did make a comment at one point earlier talking about training. It's like, you know, Albert said, I'm, I'm an actor, you're a great director, like, we can do this. Like, this is something we can do. And they tried and they did their best. But Val, this is another— he's just such a bitch. He's just mean to everybody. He's like mean to Agador about like, you know, he goes out and like Agador's lighting some, some candles because the whole place looks like a fucking monastery now. Yes. Like, it just looks ridiculous.

Nic

It is funny how they, they like fully strip it down. There's almost nothing, just a big wooden crucifix on the wall in one room.

Steve

A wooden crucifix, they have a little table, they have a couple of books, a lot of drapes on the walls to block the view to the outside and stuff. All this stuff, and so Agador's lighting candles, and he's tried to masculinate his voice as well, 'cause he's got this very thick accent. And so Val's like, would you just put your shoes on? He goes, ah, but sir, there is no reason for me to put my shoes on, because they make me fall down. And he's like, just put your fucking shoes on. He's so upset about it. But that's when Katherine calls to verify Armand's message. She goes, hey, I got a— A message from my assistant about not coming. Is that right? And Val is one who answers. And so now that you know Albert has run back into his room and is like not coming out, supposedly like locked himself in. He's like, "No, no, no, please come, come, come." Like like like that was a mistake. Like please, you know. And they have a moment over the phone because you know they've never spoken to each other before. And and she says, "This is Val." And he's like, "Yeah." She's just like, "Hey, I just want you to know, like I'm really really happy I can do this for you." Yeah. You know, which is great. Like she she really is just you know knows that she obviously hasn't been part of his life, obviously. So this is cool that she can do something for him.

Nic

She Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, weird dynamic for that kind of relationship, but I think they keep the proper distance. You know, it's not like, oh, you live with me half the time now. It's very much like they're fine with the decision that was made 20 years ago. Um, so yeah, so they end up— uh, the parents are on the way, right? So the idea is that even if, uh, if Christine Baranski gets there when she's supposed to get there, she's gonna be there after—.

Steve

A little late, yeah.

Nic

The parents of— Barbara's parents, right? And they show up, and we get a funny scene of the shoes make him fall down.

Steve

He wasn't kidding.

Nic

Agador does fall down when he puts shoes on. Good physical comedy.

Steve

It's a good pratfall. Yeah.

Nic

And so, so we're introduced now to Barbara and her parents.

Steve

Yep. So the Keelys have arrived, and there's a lot of like— and then there's initial confusion because, first of all, Agador answers the phone, I am Spartacus. He's decided to change his name, hasn't told anybody. And, you know, like, welcome to the Goldmans or something like that. The goal— I'm the Goldmans' butler or something like that. And so And then Barbara had told her parents that the last name was Coleman because she also didn't want them to think— among all the other things she doesn't want her parents to understand is that Armond is Jewish.

Nic

Yeah, yeah.

Steve

And that's also, you know, no, no, no, no kind of thing. Um, and so then it's like, is it Goldman? Coleman? Like, there's some— there's some misunderstanding right now. The crazy part is when they drove up to the building with the nightclub in front, it says Armond Goldman Presents on the front, right? They're meeting an Armond Coleman. Even that should have been a bit of a tip-off, but there's no recognition at all.

Nic

It is fun. Oh, when they first kind of arrive in town, so they're kind of pulling into the same that we saw from the opening shot, right? Like people in thongs and like men and women in thongs, scantily dressed, all kinds of stuff. And they're looking out the window and I think, uh, I think they're like, oh yeah, they said this all popped up since they bought the place.

Steve

It was all sand when they bought here.

Nic

They would never move in there, right? Uh, and then there's kind of a comment with the Coleman Goldman thing. They say something about— he said, oh, this neighborhood used to be all Jewish. It was like, oh, Barbara said it used to be all sand. He's like, oh, you know what they say, when there's sand, where there's sand, there's sand.

Steve

But then, yeah, but they respond to— or, you know, Val and Armand calls Agador, they call him Agador, and then Val corrects him to Spartacus, and they say Agador Spartacus. He insists on being called his full name, which I always thought was hilarious. But basically, outside the building now, more journalists have— or no, the initial journalists have arrived. So the 2 guys that follow them are there, and they see the driver and pay him another bunch of money, whatever, to say where did they go. They went in the building across the street.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

So now they're kind of scoping it out. They're obviously not just gonna like try to walk in or anything, but they're like looking around. The, the name has actually been changed on the, on the ring, the doorbell outside, to say Coleman. Um, something Val must have done at some point. And so they're asking, Coleman, Coleman, the last name Coleman, know nothing? That's so crazy. And then one guy's like, what about the name on the front of the building? Armand Goldman. Goldman. Like, he figures it out. Yeah, yeah. And sort of they check. Oh, it turns out, yeah, like he owns the building, he owns the nightclub. Like, yeah, like that's him kind of thing. Which is super funny. Inside the building, well, we find out Katherine's stuck in traffic. She's at like some kind of drawbridge or something. Yeah, there's a lot of— I can't remember what they're called. They're like— yeah, there's some term for all these, like, they're like bridges, but they're also the causeways, I think they call them, throughout Miami that make it very difficult to get from one part of Miami to another depending on what time of day it is and stuff.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

And so she's stuck, so they're gonna wait a little longer. And Kevin Keeley— so Gene Hackman's character starts telling the story about the foliage, the changing foliage as they drove from Ohio through Virginia. And it is the most boring fucking story about the leaves changing, right?

Nic

And it's the most politician, no information kind of story too. Like, no opinions, no information.

Steve

And talk about Purple Mountain's Majesty. Like, yeah, just the most boring shit ever.

Nic

Um, yeah, so, and he's— and they keep kind of like— the phone rings at a point in his story and they don't pick it up, but then it goes to the answering machine and Val goes and grabs it. It's Catherine, right? Because it's her. And they're so— and they're like disappearing to the kitchen and coming back. And, uh, Kevin Keeley, Gene Hackman, is kind of like, something's going on here. Like, it's like the only time he's skeptical of anything, right, throughout this. Uh, so— and they're just like, okay, Mom's gonna be late, she's gonna be another half an hour, whatever. And then inverse Mom, right?

Steve

And it's Albert doing the Mrs. Doubtfire type thing.

Nic

Yeah, very much. Uh, yeah, so, and when he first pops in, Agador starts laughing hysterically and has to like— can't even stop himself laughing, has to like cover his mouth and just be escorted out of the room.

Steve

I want to say this movie to me is, is a good movie, um, from the beginning until the Keighleys arrive at the house. But from where the Keighleys arrive to the end, it is a spectacular movie. Like, I honestly— the, the, the jokes come super fast, the, the missed identity stuff is hilarious. To me, there's so many like laughs in this movie, kind of in this dinner scene and on, and and this is where it really like ramps up. And so Albert appearing as Mrs. Coleman Goldman, which again there's now an additional problem because she says Goldman or something, and and there's there's a problem. But yeah, we've had some confusion. Is it Coleman? And she goes, "Well, it depends on where you are." Like in France, in France, where Armand's château is, it's Col de la Manne or Col of the Isle of Man. Yeah, which is like the most ridiculous. It's like, name ever. So we don't really know where we are until we hear our last name pronounced. Yeah.

Nic

Uh, and, and the second Albert shows up, like, it puts Kevin Keeley is just like, oh, hell yeah.

Steve

Yeah, yeah, I dig this. Like, this is, this is it.

Nic

Like, I was a little suspicious, but now with the crucifix, and then he referred to not a lot of clever books on the shelves, which I think was cool.

Steve

It was like all like Nancy Drew or something.

Nic

Yeah, because, uh, Agador, when he got this big crucifix, was like, and they also gave me a bunch of books. And I feel like he said something Like they're due back next week, or like that he was just given all these old library books. But yeah, and and Kevin is immediately getting into like there's like no pleasant conversation.

Steve

He's like launching into all his like political talking points like right away and gay marriage like all this stuff and Clinton's bad like all this stuff and and you know Albert's trying to play along and sort of agreeing with a lot of the the stuff and and so she said something well he said something. Something, uh, as the mom. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I do remember that, uh, Senator Keeley's response was, that's exactly what Rush Limbaugh said.

Nic

Yes. Yeah, there's some name checks in this. Yeah, they're very mid-'90s. Um, is it Billy Graham? He says it's too— because— or too liberal?

Steve

No, it's the, the Pope is too liberal. The Pope is too controversial. We'll get Billy Graham. And then later he says Bob Dole. He was going to say Bob Dole's too liberal, but his wife Louise says he's too dark. Oh, he's dark too, but I was gonna say too liberal. I think that's the year— '96 would be the year that Dole—.

Nic

That would have been the Clinton— yeah, that would have been the year that Dole ran against Clinton. Bush, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so, uh, so they're getting along great. Like, nobody's pushing back, but, uh, but Armond is uncomfortable by this, right? So there's a scene as these questions are coming, and nobody's had a chance to adjust to Albert arriving. They didn't have a little meeting in the fucking— in the Uh, what's it called? The kitchen. In the mudroom first, and then, and then go in there. Yeah, yeah. So he's just like, what the fuck? And he's going around nervously putting ice in everybody's cups and stuff like that. But they're getting along kind of famously, and they end up having this great, like, little singing and dancing moment, right?

Steve

Yeah, they do. Uh, before dinner is served, they do, uh, what, from, uh, um, it's from My Fair Lady, I Could Have Danced All Night, like, whatever. And it's like their piano and they're dancing and singing. Yeah, everybody's getting along Great. We should mention, in the meantime, a ton more journalists have shown up because somebody got footage from, uh, the Keelys' house of the National Enquirer guy, like, getting the bribe and finding out they're going to South Beach or whatever. So that's kind of become knowledge. So now there's, like, TV vans and all these reporters and cameras all over the south— the street out front, Ocean Boulevard. And, and so now, you know, there's this heightened sort of issue of how are they going to get out of here?

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Right, is kind of the thing.

Nic

Yeah, uh, and so as they're, uh, about to serve dinner, right, they lay out the, the plates and everything, and they see that the bowls and the plates, uh, Kevin Kiley's kind of examining. He's like, oh, these are interesting. Like, is that like naked men? And it's all this, you know, different artwork where it's like, you know, like you said with the fertility idols and stuff, it's all this stuff. And there's like, you know, very Greek. There are 2 men having sex on this, right? And then the family very quickly reacting to that is like, oh, mine has women too.

Steve

Yeah, I have girls on mine.

Nic

So that's a good thing. And, uh, and they're missing, uh, they're missing their glasses. I think Kevin Keeley and his wife are both like, oh, where are my glasses? And the kids are both kind of like, oh, I don't know, I guess they're gone. I looked, didn't find them yet. Trying to keep their vision low, but they have to rush to get the soup in those bowls to cover up the dicks.

Steve

Agador has created, uh, a soup or whatever. He's got shrimps that he isn't able to put in the thing because Armand runs out with it. And he says, it's like, oh, this is seafood chowder. And he starts putting it, and then like Louise is like Senator Kelly's wife is like, "Isn't this an egg? Why is there an egg?" He's like, "Oh yes, it's it's a it's a huevo. It's very big in Guatemala." He's trying to play it up, but it's just all bullshit. And he says, like a woman is said to be like worth her weight in hens, and a man is judged by the size of his cock. And he walks off. But then it's like they're they try this stew or whatever it is, this soup, and they it's all everybody hates it. It's terrible. All reach for bread at the same time. And so then Val goes to check on what's going on in the kitchen, and Armand's in there. Banging his head against the wall, and he says he didn't make an entrée. And Agador's like, it's sweet and sour peasant soup, it is an entrée. Why do you think I made so much? It's like a stew.

Nic

Like, you know, um, Val kind of needs to sneak out of there. And what they want him to do, because they know that his mom is still on the way, she's unreachable, she's in the car. So in her mind, I'm just running late, but I'm trying to get here. And they say, hey, Val, go down, like, put a note for your mom, says like, don't come in under any circumstances.

Steve

We'll explain later. Like, deal with it later.

Nic

And he goes down and does that. But then the reporters who have been kind of stalking them like pull it off. Yeah, like, oh, this might be useful information, and just to fuck everything up, right?

Steve

Like, yeah, so they take it away.

Nic

And one of the reporters, the guy who's kind of like the sidekick of the main reporter, was in True Lies. He was one of our favorite crew members with Tom Arnold and Arnie.

Steve

That's right. And he, and he in fact, he had a camera. He has a camera in this show or whatever, like, or this movie, and he had a camera at part of True Lies because he was the like camera crew that got sent to take down the terrorists, and he had the gun in it and everything. Same, uh, same same there.

Nic

So yeah, um, so at some point they all notice as, uh, as Albert's getting up, the wig— his, uh, his wig slips. Yeah, yeah. And they're able to kind of get on it pretty quickly. I think Barbara goes to Albert and says like, hey, can you show me where the bathroom is?

Steve

Mother Coleman, get out of here.

Nic

Uh, and they're all kind of rushing around Albert to fix this situation.

Steve

Yeah, which leaves just the Keelys. Mr. and Mrs. Keely are the only ones left alone at the dinner table. And Senator Keeley is super like pissed. Like he thinks that this is, you know, that Mrs. Coleman is such a tread-upon woman. And, and, you know, Armond, you know, Armond must have a, um, you know, a side piece, kind of like all this like stuff. And, and basically like acting way more concerned about this woman who he does not know is a man than he has ever about his wife, it certainly seems. Um, but as they are kind of arguing, the Keileys, Catherine shows up, walks right in. Oh, Mr. and Mrs.— Senator and Mrs. Keeley, I'm so glad to meet you. I'm Catherine Goldman. Val's mother, you know, whatever. And it's like— and that's about when Albert, you know, Wig Fix, and the others come out, and now it's confrontation time. It's like, what the fuck is going on?

Nic

Right. And, and when, uh, when she arrives at the door, it's very funny that Agador goes up. He's like, oh, hello, uh, miss. May I take your purse as usual, or for the first time?

Steve

Like, he doesn't even know which, which side to play. Like—.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

But Val finally does the right thing because he He, uh, you know, he basically— Senator Healy's like, we need an explanation here. Like, who, who is Val's mother? Like, this is— this woman has said she's Val's mother. You've said this is Val's mother. So who's Val's mother? And, and he does the right thing. He says, this is— and he takes, uh, Albert's wig off and he says, this is my mother. Like, this is the person who raised me. Like, you know, kind of thing. And, you know, but, you know, Katherine here, like, she, she birthed me or whatever kind of thing. And, and she introduces herself. So nice to finally meet you, Val. Like, it's very— which I'm sure is like kind of like, oh my God, extra mind-blowing for the Healys. Yeah. But Senator Keeley is completely— he's like, huh? But you're a man. What? I don't understand. But wait, 2 minutes. He's just like— and the wife is like, what, Kevin? Yeah, get it. They're gay. They're a couple. Like, what is so hard to understand about this? Yeah. But then she's like, Barbara, we're leaving. And she's like, no, no, no, I'm not leaving. I don't want to go anywhere. I don't want to go anywhere. And that's when they turn to leave and the National Enquirer guys are right at the door. And one of them's got a camera and the other one goes, Senator Keeley! But like, as he He turns, he sees the camera, and he shuts the door. Yeah, so they don't have a picture of him, but now they know, like, everybody's there. They even go into, like, the bedroom to look down onto the main street there, and they can see all the news vans. Like, they're screwed. Catherine mentions, like, it's their word against yours you were even here, you know? And they're like, yeah, unless they get a photo of us. And so they need a plan, right, uh, to get out, right?

Nic

And, uh, so is this, like, as they, uh, discover— there's a couple kind of funny things. Is one is, uh, as Albert is explaining like, yeah, you know, I'd love Val just like any parent loves them. And, you know, it's the exact same. Uh, it's still me with just one tiny difference. Well, not a tiny difference, right?

Steve

Tiny.

Nic

I don't know if that gets the giant hog hashtag since we're hinting at it, but we love, uh, hashtagging stuff like that. Um, yeah. And then, uh, shit, what was the other thing there? Uh, I'm not gonna think of it. Um, so yeah, the press is everywhere, and we're like, how are we gonna get out? So they couldn't storm out. So now they have to, like, reconcile. They have to, like, deal with these people.

Steve

'Cause you're the only people that can help them. Well, and that's the thing is that like, yeah, so now the Keelys are stuck there. Look, I think there's a little bit of realization happening. One, that they had been having a pretty good time at dinner. Like, these, these were people they were enjoying the company of, right?

Nic

Right.

Steve

They're now in a position where these folks could just throw them out to the wolves and be like, okay, well, leave now, and then deal with what you gotta deal with, right? But they're not. They're trying to help them through it. And it's obvious that Val and Barbara, you know, care very much for each other. I think there's a lot of this going on for the Keelys. And so the plan becomes, well, if you're in drag on the way out, like, they're not gonna recognize you, they're not gonna understand that it's you. This doesn't work today with cell phone cameras in everybody's pocket, people filming things all the time, right? Because they would have gotten caught.

Nic

Sure.

Steve

Because it was the television crews, and they're probably hooked up to like live feeds and stuff, they wouldn't just be filming, they'd be waiting to set up to then start filming kind of thing, or start taping or broadcasting or whatever. So it's not an always-on panopticon kind of thing. But today, somebody's getting a shot of Senator Keeley in drag coming out. And it's not like he looks nothing like himself. No, you know what I mean?

Nic

Being like a tall— like Gene Hackman's a tall guy too. Yeah. Uh, not that there weren't like tall drag queens at the, at the thing, but—.

Steve

At the show, yeah.

Nic

I mean, it's a, it's a face that's noticeable, right? If you're looking for that face, you'd probably spot the face even with a wig and a dress on.

Steve

So we, we basically end the movie very similarly to how we began with We Are Family, uh, and, and the song plays and they basically are all kind of like walking, dancing, joining the crowd through the club and then out the front door. And they get into, uh, Catherine's car. She's gonna drive them away. And then Gene Hackman says to their original driver, like, meet me in 20 minutes on the corner of, you know, this and that. He goes, lady, not for a million bucks. Yeah, yeah. Which is like, okay, so apparently the, the costume was good enough that the driver did not recognize him. Right, right. Um, but yeah, I think after that it's just, uh, we get the wedding during the, uh, the end credits.

Nic

Yeah, we get the wedding, which— oh, and there's another point that they bring up, you know, with the, the Coleman Goldblum. So when they really— they have this kind of big reveal of Albert is actually Albert, and, and then our last name is Goldman, not Coleman. So this whole thing where you expect, uh, Kevin Kiley to be like, I can't believe you're a man, he's like, I can't believe you're Jewish.

Steve

You can't be Jewish.

Nic

But then at the end when they're having the wedding, they're clearly having one of those joint, like, Catholic-Jewish, uh, wedding celebrations.

Steve

Dual denomination.

Nic

Yeah, yeah. Um, so that is it. And of course Albert is crying throughout the, uh, the whole ceremony. And, uh, that little shit Val got everything he wanted.

Steve

He got everything he wanted. He's got his parents. He now knows his birth mother that he didn't know before. She's now in his life and he's gotten married and all this stuff. And I'm sure Senator Keeley is still campaigning on the Coalition for Moral Order's platform and has to pretend that his daughter isn't married to the son of gay people or something. I don't know how that works for him, but whatever.

Nic

Senator Keeley was supposed to be like 60 at the time, 65 at the time. 30 years later, he's still in the Senate and he's still running for reelection this year.

Steve

Very Jesse Helms-ish.

Nic

Yep.

Steve

Well, that's The Birdcage. That is The Birdcage.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Um, so yeah, I'll go ahead and give my rating first. I— look, I mean, like I said, I love this movie. This is a movie I have a ton of nostalgia for. It's a movie my wife loves as well, so she and I watch it, you know, on a fairly regular basis. Um, I think it's very funny. I think that for the most part, the, the, the sort of themes and stuff certainly hold up. Um, there's a— there are several uses of the F-slur, which is not something that I enjoy in movies, but they're used in every case as a self-description by queer characters. Yeah, it's not— it's much more of like, you know, watching Menace to Society. Yeah, it's like watching Menace to Society and they're using the N-word with each other all the time because that's the culture they're in. They're all in the in-group. Same kind of thing here. The F-slur is used only by the characters who kind of like can claim that word for themselves. Other than that, I don't think any of it like aged poorly outside of some like topical references that aren't really topical anymore because it's, you know, almost 30 years later.

Nic

But it gives you a chance to Wikipedia some stuff.

Steve

Yeah, they mentioned Mapplethorpe, Billy Graham, you know, they mentioned Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush is mentioned several times, you know, the young Kennedys. Like, there's a lot of things that kind of, you know, didn't age great in that sense, but what are you gonna do? It's a product of its time. I love this story outside of the Val part. I love the story as it pertains to parents doing what they feel like they, you know, kind of need to do or can do for their children and wanting to give them everything. Like, that part of it I love. Val is a hard person to root for, uh, so I don't. The movie to me is about— is about Armand and about Albert and in part about Barbara because she seems very sweet. We don't get any sense that she's, you know— I don't even get the sense that she's pushing Val to do this. It really feels like Val is setting up all of the sort of like things— let's be careful, let's be careful— seem to be coming more from him than from her. But maybe that's just— I'd rather think of it that way because I already don't like him.

Nic

Yeah.

Steve

Um, I'm a 4.5 out of 5 on The Birdcage. It's not a perfect movie, but it is so funny. I laughed my ass off through it again and again. This one that I know I've got, you know, a ton of nostalgia for, but I really do think it's, it's a really spectacular comedy. Uh, it's very heartfelt in a lot of, a lot of ways, uh, and it just produced several really laugh-out-loud scenes. Uh, and, and Hank Azaria is a wonderful treat. So yeah, I'm 4.5 out of 5.

Nic

All right, well, uh, yeah, so this is my first time seeing this movie, and like I try to do with a movie I haven't seen before, I'll watch it twice. I'll watch it once all the way through to just kind of get the feeling of it and then watch it again to, to get notes and everything like this. Um, I do want to say I relate to, uh, one part of this is, uh, my wife and I used to work with someone who was like a daughter of a Kevin Keeley type politician. Uh, he's not in the Senate, but he's in Congress now, and he's like a real, uh, piece of shit. Like ultra conservative, just whatever. She really could have used a dinner party at a drag queen couple's, uh, house. Like, she really needed to be exposed to that kind of shit because she sucked at it. She was terrible. So I'm in favor of, like, exposing people to this and realizing, you know, like, we're all the same and stuff. I definitely like that, that kind of feeling in a movie. So the first time I watched it, I didn't like it at all.

Steve

Okay.

Nic

I was really struggling and like, I wanted to— like, I like what it's about and I like the people in it, but I was just like, Nathan Lane is too annoying to me. I can't root for him. Val's sucks. Too bad. I can't root for him. Robin Williams is not being funny. I can't root, you know.

Steve

Interesting.

Nic

So I had a really, really hard time with it, uh, and I watched it the second time and I came around a bit on some of it. Like, I, I saw some more sweetness between, uh, Albert and Val and Albert and Armand, and I like that relationship a little bit more. Um, the Kevin Kiley character, I think, was— it's funny, like, his best work is telling his, like, meandering story. I think was, like, the best thing that, that he did. There. I think this movie didn't have as much comedy as I would have liked to have for something with Robin Williams in it. And I feel like it suffers a bit from the Mrs. Doubtfire curse.

Steve

Interesting.

Nic

Because some of the gags that they could have put in this movie that would have been funny, I think would have overlapped too much with stuff that happened in Doubtfire. Like if you were trying to have a scene like it, does Albert need to keep changing in and out of, you know, the outfit, stuff like that? I I mean, the montages of dressing up. It's just that this came out 2 years earlier or 3 years earlier. And like, there's a lot of things they'd be like, ah, this would be good in our movie. But they just did that. So all this is to say, I did have a tough time with this. And I came around on it a bit. It's not really like my type of film.

Steve

Sure.

Nic

It didn't have enough like punch as far as comedy for me. So I'm going to give The Birdcage a 2 out of 5. But I want to be clear that this is just kind of specific to the type of movies that I generally like to see. There's a reason this movie made a lot of money. There's a reason this movie is very beloved. Um, it just didn't work for me very much. I'm just like trying to be honest about my experience of watching it. So, well, that's, that's where we're at for The Birdcage.

Steve

Thank you, everybody. This is the final episode of Two Dads One Movie. We're never gonna— I'm kidding. No, no caveats necessary, man. We all have our own tastes, and, and this only ties the biggest gap between our scores, by the way. Okay, 2.5 is— we've done this a few times, so that's right. 6.5 out of 10 is the final score from the 2 dads on The Birdcage, and I will accept that, uh, even though it is one of my favorite movies. It's not for everybody, obviously, and it— and it's— it's— I know that my nostalgia for it is a major factor in that, and that— and that's fine. So what are you bringing to the table next week, Nick? What are we gonna watch next week?

Nic

Well, I, I know, uh, we've kind of been in the spirit of Like talking about groups of people in our country that have been historically mistreated and discriminated against. Yep. And my next movie touches on, I think, the group that is the most discriminated against in the history of our country—the troops.

Steve

Okay, the troops. And we're gonna follow. I thought you were gonna say cops.

Nic

That's true too. We are gonna follow a Vietnam veteran. Veteran, uh, as he is kind of, you know, wandering the country, just making a life for himself, trying to visit his old friends. And he, uh, runs up against some very unpleasant police officers. We're gonna go to— I don't know if this is Washington or Oregon, somewhere Washington State— and, uh, spend some time with John Rambo as we, uh, as we check out First Blood.

Steve

Nice. I have never seen First Blood. I'm well aware of, like, I'm super familiar with like basically the plotline, which there isn't a ton of. Like, it's not a convoluted storyline. It's a pretty basic setup. Yeah, I know that it's not, you know, that the later Rambo movies leaned so much harder into just the spectacle of the action. Yes, First Blood was like meant to be a little more, you know, there's supposed to be like a dude or whatever.

Nic

Yeah, you know, kind of thing.

Steve

Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that. But yeah, I've never actually seen it. I just know, I know Brian Dennehy, he's a piece of shit, and I know that John Rambo fucks shit up. So yeah, well, that's, that's what I'm going in with.

Nic

Made in heaven, baby. Exactly.

Steve

All right, so next week we will watch First That's a wrap. If you like what you hear, please consider heading over to Apple or Spotify and leaving us a 5-star review. It helps new folks find the show. Be sure to check out our website at twodads1movie.com. That's the number 2 and the number 1. There you can explore the movies we've covered, sign up for our newsletter, The Rewind, and even get sneak previews of upcoming episodes. Once again, this has been The Birdcage, another episode of 2 Dads 1 Movie. I'm Steve.

Nic

And I'm Nic.

Steve

Thank you so much for listening, and we'll catch you next week.

Nic

Thanks, everyone.